210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

A conversation among Whalers
Drick
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Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:28 pm

210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Drick » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:27 pm

As my first boat [I may] buy a 210 DAUNTLESS without a T-Top, with a 150-HP engine, and without trim tabs, for cruising and fishing in Delaware Bay, in Rehoboth Bay, on some days in the Ocean, and maybe pull one or two tubes a few times a year. Performance [of a 210 DAUNTLESS] with 200-HP is similar [to the performance with 150-HP]. I have to think the 150-HP would be a lot slower when there is more weight in the boat.

If five people are aboard, is [a 210 DAUNTLESS with] 150-HP underpowered?

Also would a 210 DAUNTLESS with 150-HP and without a T-Top be hard to sell in the future?

flymo
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Re: 210 Dauntless HP

Postby flymo » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:44 am

From reading the performance report, the choice is between the 150 and the 200 Verado Pro. The 200 Verado is a nonstarter - the 150 accelerates better. I always prefer the maximum horsepower allowed, and I think you are right to be concerned about resale. I suspect the Verado Pro would be a lot more expensive than the 150, unfortunately.

That said, personally I would not buy a Verado - I am not a fan of small displacement and forced-induction in an outboard. Mercury seems to be moving in the direction of larger displacement, normally aspirated motors which have a lot less to go wrong. I would expect the Verado line to be discontinued within a year or two.
Last edited by flymo on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

jimh
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:48 am

The term "performance" generally is understood to mean maximum speed and the ability to acceleration. The acceleration and top speed of a boat are affected by the ratio of horsepower to total weight. As horsepower-to-weight ratio decreases, top speed decreases.

If a boat of a particular weight has a horsepower of 150-HP compared to the same boat with the same weight but with 200-HP, the top speed will of the boat with 150-HP will be less than the boat with 200-HP in a ratio of (150/200)^0.5 or 0.86. For example, if the 200-HP boat can, say, attain a speed of 45-MPH, then the 150-HP boat would tend to only be able to reach 45-MPH x 0.86 = 39-MPH.

The effect of weight is in the same manner but in the opposite direction, that is, an increase in weight causes a decrease in top speed by the same factor. If a boat's horsepower is constant and the boat total weight is increased by a factor of 200/150, then the top speed will decrease by a ratio of 0.86.

The ability of an engine to accelerate under load is a function of the torque curve of the engine, how much reserve power is available from the engine, and the propeller load curve. Boats with an engine that has plenty of reserve torque available will accelerate faster than boats whose engine does not have any reserve torque. The propeller load determines how fast the engine can accelerate. See

Propeller Power Curve
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... Curve.html

If a boat has an engine with less reserve torque, the acceleration can be improved by using a propeller whose power curve is more suited. Generally this means using a propeller with less pitch. Thus a boat with a 150-HP engine can be made to accelerate as fast as a boat with a 200-HP engine, as long as the propeller for the 150-HP engine is properly chosen.

jimh
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:51 am

The value of a 210 DAUNTLESS boat that has no T-top and has a 150-HP relative to a similar boat with 200-HP and with a T-top will be the same in the future as in the present. If the present value of a 210 DAUNTLESS boat with 150-HP and no T-top is presumed to be less than a similar boat with 200-HP and a T-Top, then the future value will also be less. I do not see that the passing of time causes any change in the comparison of value.

If it is possible to find a buyer in the present for a 210 DAUNTLESS with no T-top and with 150-HP engine, then it should be possible to find another buyer in the future. If there were more buyers in the present for the boat with 200-HP and T-top, then in the future the same should be true.

As a general rule, any item offered for sale has a particular value. If the asking price is perceived as being below the true value, then the item will tend to sell faster and more easily than if the asking price is at or above the true value.

Drick
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Drick » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:30 am

Thank you very much for all of the information.

Jefecinco
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:36 am

I have owned and operated a 135 HP Verado engine on a 190 Montauk for about eight years. The engine has been perfectly reliable with no requirement to replace parts beyond normal oil filter change intervals. I have chosen to replace the water pump impeller once because I frequently operate the engine in shallow sandy waters. I highly recommend the engine.

The Verado 200 HP engine is identical in every way including all internals to our 135 HP Verado with the exception of the Engine Control Module. The module in the 150 HP version delivers more fuel and boost on demand than does the module in the 135 HP version. Mercury Marine has no orphans, meaning that parts for Verado engines should be available for many years after the production is discontinued. Boosted low displacement engines seem to be the future in automobile engines and reliability of the engines is not questioned.

I believe that larger center console boats are better suited for T-Tops. At the 21 foot size I believe a T-Top is almost expected on salt water center console boats in the Alabama coastal area. Look around a couple of marinas to see the trend in your area.
Butch

jimh
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby jimh » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:52 am

Regarding the future, the VERADO four-cylinder in-line engine, and the possibility that Brunswick will halt sales of that engine:

Based on the website from Brunswick for their VERADO engines as it appears today (September 23, 2018), I do not see any engines under the VERADO branding except engines in the horsepower range of 250 to 350-HP. Those VERADO engines are the in-line six-cylinder engines.

I can't be certain about the future, but in the present my inference is Brunswick has already halted sales of the four-cylinder in-line VERADO engines.

I believe Brunswick has developed different engines in the 135 to 200-HP segment, and is now offering those new designs for sale in that horsepower range. This should not be inferred as an indicator of anything wrong or bad or undesirable about the previously made VERADO four-cylinder engines.

Drick
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Drick » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:53 pm

[I will be] sea testing a 2014 210 Dauntless with 200-HP.

Drick
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Drick » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:37 pm

Purchased a 2019 210 Dauntless with the new 200-HP engine and with a T-top. Thanks for all your help and advice.

Jefecinco
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Jefecinco » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:36 am

Your choice mimics what I would have chosen for that Dauntless. Please give us a performance report and a photograph.
Butch

Drick
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby Drick » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:39 pm

I don't get the boat until April and in the mid-Atlantic.

cwf
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Re: 210 Dauntless Recommended Power, Effect on Resale

Postby cwf » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:59 pm

Drick wrote:I don't get the boat until April and in the mid-Atlantic.


I'm a couple months behind [Drick] and thinking along the same lines.

[Several questions specifically for Drick to answer]

Q1: did you order the boat?
Q2: Or, could you just not find what you were looking for on a lot?

Your original post mentioned not getting a T-top.
Q3: What was the deciding factor on the T-top?