1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
jwaters58
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1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:41 am

The Yamaha 115-HP engine on my 1997 OUTRAGE 17 has died. I may buy a Yamaha F115 or Suzuki 130.

Any information [about the re-powering of an OUTRAGE 17] you may give me is appreciated.

Masbama
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Re: 1997 17 ft Outrage re-power

Postby Masbama » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:33 pm

Suzuki does not make a 130hp engine. Perhaps you are thinking of the Suzuki DF140 engine. Good choice.

Also look at the new three-cylinder E-TEC G2 engines.

jimh
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 Re-power

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:18 am

What is the primary goal for a new engine purchase?

Is lowest noise at idle most important?

Is lightest weight most important?

Usually reliability, freedom from repair, and lack of expensive required routine maintenance are given much higher priority.

I recommend finding a trustworthy dealer with a long history of selling a particular brand for re-power applications, with an outstanding service department as the first step.

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Phil T
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 Re-power

Postby Phil T » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:23 pm

Keep in mind the owner has a 1997 Outrage 17 II. This model has a minimum of 90-HP and a maximum of 150-HP.
Member since 2003
1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

vtvfr
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby vtvfr » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:43 pm

I repowered my 1996 Outrage 17 II with an E-TEC 150 in 2013. I replaced the original 1996 Evinrude 150. The E-TEC at 425-lbs weighs about 50-lbs more than the original engine, and it is the maximum weight recommended by Boston Whaler.

I am running a 15-pitch Enertia propeller which results in a top speed of approximately 48-MPH SOG per GPS with engine speed at 5700 to 5800-RPM. At cruise at 3500-RPM fuel economy is approximately 4 to 4.5-MPG.

I am curious how the new 3-cylinder E-TEC 150 would perform on this boat. I assume it is lighter than my legacy V6.

jimh
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jimh » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:32 pm

The new E-TEC G2 has better fuel economy than the legacy E-TEC engines by quite a margin.

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:37 pm

Thanks for the replies.

For VTVFR to answer:

Q: Did the [OUTRAGE 17 II] boat with the 425-lbs [E-TEC] engine weight do “ok”?

Q: Were trim tabs needed?

Q: Did water come in the boat via scuppers when the boat was not underway?

vtvfr
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby vtvfr » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:04 am

In response to the questions:

A1: The boat handled the weight just fine, but I would not want to have a heavier motor.

A2: I don’t have trim tabs and don’t feel I need them.

A3: The boat remains dry with the scuppers above the waterline at rest.

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:10 am

Thanks for the reply. Nothing is better than real world experience.

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:32 am

I went with the Suzuki DF140 engine. I am working through the break-in. The manual says one hour and 45 minutes at 3000-RPM. The Suzuki DF140 engine really bogs at that engine speed.

To any readers who have a Suzuki DF140 or DF115 engine: what propeller does your engine have?

I am slightly underwhelmed with a four-stroke. I hope the Suzuki DF140 engine grows on me.

jimh
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jimh » Mon Jul 15, 2019 9:04 am

The Suzuki DF140 is a very popular engine, but it is really the stretched version of their 115-HP model. With only modest displacement the four-stroke-power-cycle outboards tend to lack low to mid-RPM power, and they also tend to reach their rated horsepower only at the very highest peak of their permitted RPM range. In the case of the Suzuki DF140, the engine probably delivers 140-HP only around 6,000-RPM. When running under load at 3,000-RPM the DF140 is probably making much less horsepower, and perhaps only half the rated power.

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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:59 am

I had a DF115 on my 19 banana Revenge on a jackplate with a Stiletto 20" prop. She did 40 on a good day at around 5800. 115's redline at 6k, you are 6300? Personally I found through this site many years ago that the 115 and 140 performed pretty close but that may have changed in the last 15yrs. I would think if they still make a 20" stiletto that may be your prop.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

Masbama
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby Masbama » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:48 pm

I have the same engine on my 190 Nantucket. 3,000 rpms is not optimal for this engine. You won’t start feeling the power curve until you get close to 4,000 rpms. I run 25mph @ 4,200rpms. I have a 20” pitch, three blade stainless prop.

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:08 pm

Thanks for the responses. The motor was rigged with a 17 pitch 3 blade Solus. It was way off the mark. I ran a 19 today and it is closer to what i think it should be. Just picked up a 21 and will update after I run it. Thanks again.

biggiefl
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:44 am

Suzuki engines have a very high gear ratio compared to others which in my opinion gives a better holeshot but also can give the feeling of no low end power for cruise(not worded correctly) If you have a 6300 redline, obviously you are gong to cruise at a higher RPM. If an engine that redlines at 5500 cruises at 3500, an engine with a 6300 would make sense to cruise around 4300. You can't have a low cruise and a much higher rpm unless you are overpowered. My 115 would cruise around 26-27 at 42-4300. Don't be afraid to run these a little hard, they don't mind cruising at 4500-5k all day. Listen to the engine for it's sweet spot once you get the prop dialed in.

Now that I am thinking about it, I might have been running a 22" because I think I sold my 20" to somebody here with a 115 and an 18 outrage and I bought a 22" from Tom Clark.

PS...I always filled in the vent holes with kitty hair and epoxy as it made the prop bite better.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

The “listen to the the engine” advice is good solid advice. The 21 pitch prop did well at 4400 to , 28 to 30 mph. I pulled 6000 at wot trimmed . The dealer I bought the motor from wants me to try a 20. I plug for this guy:. If anyone here is in coastal Alabama or NW Florida,. Bill at Cotton Country Marine has gone above and beyond trying to get the correct set up for my boat. I don't think my boat was make but 3 years so there is not much out there as far as information on the 140 on a 17 outrage. He insisted I try a 20 pitch before we make a final decision. That is 5 props he has ordered to get the best set up. Who does that? I will post info on the 20 in. prop later in the week..

biggiefl
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:11 pm

Try it but the 21 sounds pretty good. You want to be close but you don't have to be on the spot. If I find a used one that is close, I take it to the prop shop and say lower me down 200rpms and viola for $40-50. I used to have a stable of V4 OMC props because I owned so many of them. You could take 3 OMC black painted SST 17" props and get 3 different results. A Vengence or similar might perform like a 19". It is all about trial and error so I like your dealer already. Lastly trying a prop does not do damage to it so they will sell it to somebody as new as the only thing different is the hub is greased if a conventional pressed hub. If it has the slip in hub(hubcentric?) nobody would know. If you damage the prop, you better hope it was the right one as you now own it.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

biggiefl
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:14 pm

Done a bit of boating in Orange beach. Bought my Donzi off a guy there and we are still friends. Love that area with all the dunes and of course the mullet toss.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

flymo
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby flymo » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Remember [selecting the optimum propeller for a particular boat and engine pairing is] not only about pitch For these peaky, relatively low displacement 4-strokes, the grippy, heavily cupped, large blade area props can make them feel dull.

A prop that spins up easily can really make a lot of difference - look for something with less blade area, low rake, and less cup. Am I correct that you're using the Solus HR Titan 3? It does not look like it has huge blades, but does advertise high rake and a lot of cup. If you can't get the acceleration you'd like with the Solas, you may wish to try another brand / type.

After trying 4 other props I went to a PowerTech SCD-3 on my F70, and it really brought the motor to life. The Turbo Quest is also specifically made for these applications, although I have not tried it.

Also, I am extremely surprised that you're supposed to run at 3000 RPM for 1:45 - are you sure the manual didn't say "no more than 3000 RPM?" Water over the dam at this point, just can't figure what almost 2 hours of bogging along would do for you.

Masbama
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby Masbama » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:51 pm

I’m in Mobile; appreciate your recommendation.
Are all the props Solas or other manufacturers?
Did you raise your motor up? Is so, how man holes up?

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:59 pm

The engine mounting height is one-hole-up.

Every propeller I have run so far has been made by Solas.

I am not sure of the brand of the “20” propeller that is is being ordered from Suzuki.

We are in the Wolf Bay area.

biggiefl
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:48 am

Suzuki engines like to be mounted high.

I would raise the engine mounting height to two-holes-up or maybe three-holes-up.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jwaters58
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby jwaters58 » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:59 pm

To finish this one up, the Suzuki 14 x 20 propeller is the best option. The bow comes down quickly when transitioning to plane.

The Suzuki DF140 accelerated to 6200-RPM at full throttle with boat speed 43-MPH.

At 4300-RPM the boat speed is around 30-MPH.

Over all I am happy with the set up. Thanks for all the input provided.

biggiefl
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Re: 1997 Outrage 17 II Re-power

Postby biggiefl » Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:56 am

Usually a same-brand propeller works best with a particular engine brand. The engine makers spend a lot time making sure [their brand propellers work well] in order to justify their added cost over a Solas or Ballistic or other non OEM prop.

Usually the [engine maker brand propeller] quality is higher, too.

Yes, some have used other brand propellers on their engines with good results as well. Companies like Mercury spend a lot on their propeller technology.
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll: