Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

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FISHNFF
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Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby FISHNFF » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:31 am

Are Mercury and Yamaha still co-producing [a 60-HP four-stroke-cycle outboard engine]?

Or, at least the block?

I know the 75/90/115/200/225 partnership is gone, but the bore and stroke on their two 60's are identical. Sorry if I missed this information if covered in an earlier post.

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jimh
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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby jimh » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:24 am

I cannot speak authoritatively about this, but my inference from the similarity of the block dimensions is the block must be a legacy design left over from the days long ago when Yamaha and Brunswick's Mercury Marine brand did have a collaboration on four-stroke-power-cycle engine manufacturing for a few years at the earliest part of the transition to four-stroke-power-cycle outboard engine manufacturing. As I recall, in those days Mercury Marine was casting the block, and Yamaha was making most of the moving parts. When the collaboration ended, it would be reasonable that each manufacturer continued to use those components and the designs and dimensions for them, but just began making them on their own or getting other sources for them.

I doubt that in the present day there could be much cooperative manufacturing existing between Brunswick and Yamaha. When the collaboration began long ago, the share of the North American outboard engine market held by Yamaha was relatively small. Now Yamaha probably has as much market share as Brunswick. I would be surprised if either of them would lift a finger to help the other in the outboard engine manufacturing business. They had a rather nasty end to the last deal in which Yamaha was making complete engines for Brunswick. After the Brunswick request for tariff protection against Japanese engine imports, Yamaha became rather uncooperative about making engines for Brunswick.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby jimh » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:25 am

I know the 75/90/115/200/225 partnerships are gone


That was the "partnership" where Yamaha made the engines and Mercury bought the black paint used to turn them into Mercury engines.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby pcrussell50 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:34 pm

jimh wrote:That was the "partnership" where Yamaha made the engines and Mercury bought the black paint used to turn them into Mercury engines.


Yes, and the irony! I have one of those "Mercaha's" that I bought off of Brian/FISHNFF. A 2000, 90-HP. It's sooo Yamaha, that when I brought it in for a scheduled major service and inspection, I brought it to the Yamaha dealer, who performed the service. The Yamaha factory trained tech was a little skeptical until I pulled off the cowl--then he was right at home. To the extent that I've replaced small parts, such as carburetor rebuild kits, I buy them from Yamaha. They are cheaper than buying them from Mercury, funny enough.

I don't blame you for wanting another "Yamaha", Brian. When I had "our" Alert/Montauk out at Lake Powell a couple of summers ago, with friends with much faster boats, I found myself running for long periods of time pretty close to 6000-RPM as to minimize the burden caused by me being "tail-end Charlie". I was pretty glad Yamaha has plenty of experience with high-revving motors. It never hiccuped or got hot, even though the air was in the 90's and the water was in the 70's.

-Peter

FISHNFF
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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby FISHNFF » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:27 am

Good to hear Peter.
With that 90 Mercaha, many components were of foreign (Japanese) origin.
This Merc 60 looks all Merc. No hint of Japanese anything anywhere.

So far, so good. I just need to get the prop dialed in!


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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby pcrussell50 » Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:52 pm

jimh wrote:As I recall, in those days Mercury Marine was casting the block, and Yamaha was making most of the moving parts....


You mean the block on my 2000 Mercury 90hp FourStroke (the identical twin of the same-year, Yamaha F100), was cast by the bowling ball company? Gag!

When Brunswick came out with their in-house, 3.0L Mercury 150-HP motor a handful of years ago, they seemed to be announcing their intentions to take four-stroke-cycle engines in-house across all power ranges. They also showed the world how the savvy of an air hockey table company could make what had to be a new low in power-to-weight ratio, and power-to-displacement ratio by eking 150-HP out of 3.0L. ;)

-Peter

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:00 am

I do want to be fair about the Mercury-Yamaha partnership, and maybe my remark about Mercury buying the black paint was a bit glib. Let me explain further. Apparently at one point, Yamaha ran out of the black paint and supplied Mercury with their engines still in the Yamaha blue-gray paint. Mercury just put a black cowling on them. And Mercury did change some of the electrical connectors so the "Mercury" engines could be rigged with the Mercury electrical harness in use at that time.

As for bowling, when I was about ten-years-old in the early 1960's bowling was very popular, and I was participating in a youth bowling league. I used to love to watch the automatic pin setters. I was allowed to go behind the lanes and could watch the complicated machine in action. I thought it was the most amazing invention. At the "lanes" (as we called them then before they became "centers") where I bowled, the machinery was made by AMF or American Machine and Foundry. For some time AMF and Brunswick were competitors in the business of making automatic pin spotting machines, bowling equipment, and bowling lanes.

I believe that Brunswick has now left the bowling business entirely, but it seems that the legacy of being a bowling ball manufacturer is going to follow them around for a while in the public's mind, perhaps for another generation or two.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby FISHNFF » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:53 pm

And to take this topic further away, but circling around back I remember a friend owning an AMF Crestliner, a fiberglass semi v runabout with Mercury power, back in the late 70's.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby johnlandnsea » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:30 pm

Brunswick has sold the bowling division. Also, I believe the Mercury-Yamaha partnership was dissolved in 2005 and 2006.
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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby jaymoussy » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:44 am

johnlandnsea wrote:...
Also, I believe the Mercury-Yamaha partnership was dissolved in 2005 and 2006.


So, a 2006 model 90-HP, like mine, probably made in 2005, was part of the last batch?

Other: I have gathered a few Brunswick 78 [RPM record disks]! Elegant company logos. It was a big record company back then, and like most that size, must have owned a number of radio stations across the U.S.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby hauptjm » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:07 pm

Looking at the Brunswick website, specifically their historical timeline, I came upon an interesting entry from 2015:

Brunswick Completes Divestiture of Bowling Products Business
Brunswick completed the sale of its Bowling Products business to BlueArc Capital Management, LLC, a private investment firm based in Atlanta. Terms of the transaction were not disclosed.


Now, why would this be interesting? A publicly traded company sells off one of its signature and historic assets and it doesn't disclose the terms of the deal. Hmmm?

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby jimh » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:29 pm

Yes, that is a good point. When the POST-NEWSWEEK corporation sold off NEWSWEEK magazine after the magazine had lost about $100-million per year for several years, they disclosed the terms of the deal. The sales price was $1, but there were conditions. The new owner had to agree not to fire the staff for a year.

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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby Ridge Runner » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:19 pm

The divesture of the bowling business was a two stage process:

1) The retail bowling centers - 85 sites - were sold to Bowlmor AMF for $270M in 2014
2) The Bowling Products Business was sold to BlueArc Capital Management LLC - BlueArc Capital Management in late 2014 had raised $39 million for a new fund so my guess is that the Bowling Products Business was sold for around $20M - this was a management buy-out.

Brunswick Corporation noted that it derived less than 10 percent of its overall business from bowling and billiards.
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OldKenT
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Re: Mercury and Yamaha Co-manufacturing of Engines

Postby OldKenT » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:16 pm

Does this topic apply to 90 hp Mercury 2 strokes manufactured in 1998?
[NO--The co-manufacturing was only on engines with the four-stroke-power-cycle design--jimh.]