210 Outrage VERADO 200

Optimizing the performance of Boston Whaler boats
zigzag930
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210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby zigzag930 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:32 am

TO OWNERS OF c.2007 210 OUTRAGE with VERADO 200: tell me the maximum engine speed reached.

[The maximum engine speed reached on my 2007 210 OUTRAGE with a VERADO 200 with around 175-hours running time,] with a T-top, with two people, with no water, with 55-gallons of fuel, and with the stock four-blade propeller that came with that boat, [the maximum engine speed] is around 5,600-RPM.

Boston Whaler performance tests published on-line show [the maximum engine speed reached in a test of a similar boat with similar engine was] 6100-RPM.

I am concerned [the maximum engine speed of around 5,600-RPM which the VERADO 200 in my 210 OUTRAGE can accelerate to] may be too low.

This 2007 210 OUTRAGE boat to new to me. I don't know if [obtaining a maximum engine speed of 5,600-RPM] has been typical since day-one, or if there is something I need to check.

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Phil T
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Re: Max RPM on 210 Outrage with 200 Verado

Postby Phil T » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:10 am

The published maximum engine speed at full throttle for [a VERADO 200] engine is 6400 rpm.

Let's take this step by step.

Note there are three engine choices for the boat. With each comes a propeller that Boston Whaler selected.

It is hard to tell which propeller goes with which engine. The parts/options sheet shows:
--15 1/2 x 17 MIRAGEplus
--14 5/8 x 17 REVOLUTION4

cf: http://bostonwhaler.com.s3.amazonaws.com/resources/210-Outrage-Engine-Installation-2007.pdf

What propeller do you have installed?

What is the part number shown on it?

The prior owner may have changed the propeller.

What were the "test conditions and loading" listed on the factory performance report?
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1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:00 am

zigzag930 wrote:...Boston Whaler performance tests published on-line...


Please give the URL that will allow readers to find the document you are making reference to.

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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:03 am

If the boat propeller is either a Mercury MIRAGEplus or a Mercury REVOLUTION4, the propeller will have very clear marking of those model identifiers. The pitch will also be clearly marked on the aft face of the propeller hub. One glance at the propeller will allow the model and pitch to be confirmed.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby zigzag930 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:17 pm


jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:14 am

The Boston Whaler test report for a 210 OUTRAGE with a VERADO 200 engine used a REVOLUTION4 17-pitch. The engine accelerated to 6,100-RPM and produced a boat speed of 48.4-MPH. The fuel load was 34-gallons; crew weight was 370-lbs; water was 80-degrees.

The propeller on the 210 OUTRAGE under discussion has not yet been identified.

A further confusion may exist in the engine. The VERADO 200 was available in two version: the original six-cylinder and a later four-cylinder. The four-cylinder "baby 200" VERADO was not available until c.2007, so it is unlikely that the boat in the Boston Whaler test report had one; it probably had the six-cylinder VERADO 200. The identity of the VERADO 200 on the boat under discussion has not been made clear. Because the boat is identified as a 2007 model, the VERADO 200 engine could be either a four-cylinder or a six-cylinder model. If both engines are not the same model, it would not be reasonable to compare the test data.

The Boston Whaler test report does not mention the boat under test as having a T-Top; the boat under discussion does have a T-Top. Adding a T-Top will increase the boat weight. The T-Top will also create wind drag. Both an increase in weight and an increase in wind drag will cause the load on the engine to increase.

The boat under discussion during the report of engine speed and boat speed had more fuel than the Boston Whaler test report boat. More fuel increases weight. More weight increases load.

Because the load on the engine is increased in the boat under discussion, that engine may not be able to accelerate under load to the same speed as the engine in the boat tested by Boston Whaler.

The reported difference in maximum speed that the engine could accelerate to is about 600-RPM. To know if this represents a reasonable amount of reduction in engine speed based on the differences in the test conditions between the Boston Whaler test report and test conducted for the boat under discussion or if this represents "something...to check" is difficult to determine with any certainty. The areas of ambiguity that remain stem from lack of information about the test conditions for the boat under discussion:

  • the weight of crew aboard the test boat
  • the water temperature and water type (freshwater or saltwater) during the test
  • the propeller used in the test

But even with this additional data, to know precisely how much difference in maximum engine speed might occur between the two tests will be difficult. So far all indications are the test conditions for the boat under discussion had higher weights and greater wind drag than the conditions during the Boston Whaler test, so a reasonable inference is the engine won't be able to accelerate under load to the same speed.

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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:46 am

Regarding wind loading, the forces exerted by wind on a structure with a particular surface area are not described in a linear equation, that is, the force does not vary directly with wind speed. The force increases exponentially with square of the wind velocity. Because the boat speed in the Boston Whaler test is reported to be 49-MPH, the forces of wind have much greater effect than at lower speeds. Therefore it is quite reasonable to expect the influence of a structure on a boat like a T-Top to have the most effect on boat speed at the very highest boat speeds.

Example: calculate wind pressure at 4.9-MPH and 49-MPH

Wind pressure in lbs-per-squarefoot-area for velocity in MPH

P = 0.00256 x MPH^2

For 49-MPH
P = 6.1-lbs per square-foot area
For 4.9-MPH
P = 0.06-lbs per square-foot area

We see that the wind pressure is about 100-times greater at 49-MPH than at 4.9-MPH. There was a ten-fold increase in speed, but a 100-times increase in pressure. For this reason we can anticipate that adding a structure like a T-Top will cause the most effect on boat speed at the highest boat speeds, and at low boat speeds the effect will be very small and probably not observable.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby zigzag930 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:23 pm

I will get over to the boat and check the prop later this week. Thanks for all the insight and detailed analysis.

vze2gbs4
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby vze2gbs4 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:38 pm

Had four 210 outrages - had 2007 210 with both 17 mirage and tried 15 and 17 rev four. Never saw anything over 6000--5800 was probably max i saw with 17 mirage-trim the motor a bit when WOT that would raise RPM 200-300 and if you have trim tabs lower them . You have to find sweet spot to get to 6000. Water has to be pretty flat as well. Sleep tight - I think you are OK. Watch out that power steering verado pump. I lost steering twice.Drillholes on the bottom of that box where the pump is. Wetness is killing the anodes inside the pump.
I had over 60 whalers and 210 outrage is by far my favorite one

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Phil T
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby Phil T » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:44 am

If you look at the [Boston Whaler] performance report, the boat being tested is stripped down: no gear, 35-gallons of fuel (capacity of 95) and only 370-lbs of people. No anchor, no safety equipment, no tools, etc.

It is also warmer 80-degrees on protected water and no current.

I still think you should use a propeller on the boat to let the engine accelerate to at least 6,000-RPM when running light and solo--not to be a speed demon but rather to let the engine operate at the appropriate RPM range at various speeds.
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1992 Outrage 17, 1992 Evinrude 115

jimh
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:12 pm

vze2gbs4 wrote:...I had over 60 whalers...


Your ability to recall the engine speeds, boat speeds, propeller details, and other test data from your ownership of more than 60 Boston Whaler boats is quite impressive. Can you describe where you have tested these boats and how you have collected and retained all this data about their performance? I have trouble remembering what day of the week it is today. If I had not published detailed test reports here on the website, I would never be able recall any data about those tests from memory.

vze2gbs4
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby vze2gbs4 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:47 am

Yes Jim I am getting old as well so memory is not as sharp as once was. I wouldnt remember all the details on most whalers I had but 210 is my baby and as said before my favorite and IMHO best whaler that ever rolled out in 60 years. Its quite interesting to know that amazingly this hull was never shared with other models (Conquest,Ventura,Dauntless ).It is still available today as 20 Justice commercial and gov boat .Theres something magical that happened when they designed it -The keel stealth looking entry degree with oversized reversed chanells , deep V and most importantly balance of the boat-they hit it just right with smaller 19 outrage console,and trophy sister design stern layout.Bow has smart forward seating ( not stupid useless straight one,2 pretty big fish boxes and even 2 smaller swimm platform on each side of the transom .Fully closed motor well so feet would never be wet. I know this hull inside out ,every corner,every detail. Had all power options available,couple 200 optimax,225 Yamamerc 4s and 200 Verado . I experimented with different props because just like OP here I couldnt figure out why my numbers are so off from Whaler test data. So I swapped props and remember the numbers I got very well even today.
Only other hull I would say is very dear to my heart is 26 regulator. As much I love whalers I have to admit that no boat under 30 feet would ever ride as good as 26 Reg.had 2 of them and this still counts as best boat I ever had -and yes I did own whaler holly grail 27 offshore model.
As usual only my 0.2 cents .Everybody has opinion on their favorite boat.

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby zigzag930 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:48 am

The propeller [on the boat under discussion] is a Revolution4 17-pitch.

I believe the REVOLUTION4 17-pitch is the propeller used in the Boston Whaler test [of the same type boat with VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE engine].

[The Mercury VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE engine] seems to run perfectly, so I'm not too concerned about maximum engine speed being 6100-RPM.

I will do more testing in different conditions and weights.

Also I will add Quickleen [to the fuel]. To my knowledge, this [Mercury VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE engine] has never been [run with gasoline fuel] treated [with Quickleen].

Thanks for all the information.

To hear about his 210 experience from VZE2' was great.

Yesterday we were in some sloppy two to three-foot seas with winds of 15-knots or higher with four on board. I was extremely happy with the ride.

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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:17 am

zigzag930 wrote:I believe the REVOLUTION4 17-pitch is the propeller used in the Boston Whaler tests.


The REVOLUTION4 17-pitch is the propeller indicated in the Boston Whaler test of the 210 OUTRAGE with the VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE engine. I mentioned this earlier after you gave us the url to the test report you were using as a reference.

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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:19 am

I don't think you have verified which VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE engine you have.

Do you have the six-cylinder VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE?

Or do you have the four-cylinder VERADO 200 FOURSTROKE?

zigzag930
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby zigzag930 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:22 am

I have the 2006 six cylinder. I don't believe the [Mercury VERADO in-line four-cylinder] came out until a few years later.

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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby jimh » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:43 am

I mentioned earlier: the VERADO FOURSTROKE four-cylinder engines were introduced c.2007.

Is the 210 OUTRAGE boat a 2006 or a 2007? This seems to also now be unclear.

vze2gbs4
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Re: 210 Outrage VERADO 200

Postby vze2gbs4 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:55 am

Aha now it makes sense why you cant reach higher rpm with this new info. Heavy big blades prop like revolution 4 will make Verado loose around 300 rpm once 3 bladed is replaced.So you will loose top speed but will gain way better grip , dock and idling maneuverability ,stern lift and planing with lower rpm therefore saving gas .Once I tried Rev 4 I couldnt go back to 3 blades and had this boat on most F225 yamahas that I had on numerous boats.
Speaking of 210 outrage it is one of very very few boats that can execute "walking the boat " maneuver with this Rev 4 prop. This action is possible in pretty big chop (3-5 footers) when small center console like 210 can stay on plane and still have non pounding semi-comfortable ride.Retract trim tabs if you have them ,get the boat to lowest rpm that will keep you on plane and trim motor pretty high so bow raises as much as possible and could "walk" over the waves without pounding and water spray. Most boats will not be able to keep that bow high and would fall off from this position.Again very few boats can execute this maneuver and 210 does it perfectly.