First Center Console Boat

A conversation among Whalers
Mpcuse1
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First Center Console Boat

Postby Mpcuse1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:35 am

Hello to all. [This is my first] post [but I have] been lurking for the last few weeks.

I plan to buy my first [center-console] boat. Previously I have owned two aluminum Lund Fishing boats. I am located in the Albany, New York, area. [The boat's] primary use will be floating in the local lakes as well as the Hudson and Mohawk rivers. Ultimately I plan to relocate down south in the next couple of years, so some saltwater use is in my boat's future.

The boat must be able to be used for angling. I want to install a trolling motor on the bow and a SONAR, but the boat does not have to be set up for hardcore-angling.

I prefer a boat that I could tow easily, launch solo at times, and possibly fit in the garage.

My wife and I are both in our later 50's. My wife desires something to relax in, sightsee, cruise in comfortably, and stay dry. When we make the move South, we would like to use in the boat in the Atlantic Intracoastal Water Way (AIWW), make trips to barrier Islands, and (as I gained experience and weather permitting) possibly venture offshore a bit.

What are the advantages and disadvantages among a MONTAUK, a DAUNTLESS, and an OUTRAGE?

My budget is around $30,000. I could stretch a bit for the right boat. A used boat may be in the cards.
Appreciate all help and input in advance.

I have also looked at some non-Boston Whaler boats like SCOUT, KEY WEST, and PIONEER.

biggiefl
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:51 am

Simple answer is the Outrage is offshore model and the others are inshore models. I would not classify a Pioneer or Key West as a competitor for a Whaler, Scout is. You need to go boat shopping with the wife and see what she likes. All boats can be fitted with bow cushions, etc to relax on. Does she just want to relax or do you mean Pontoon boat relax?
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:24 pm

A DAUNTLESS is not a center console boat, so in your search for a first center-console boat, you probably would not want a DAUNTLESS. A DAUNTLESS is typically a dual console boat with the helm on starboard and a walk-though windshield to the bow.

To become more familiar with the Boston Whaler boats and their hulls, read these several articles in the REFERENCE section, in particular read:

The 16/17-foot Hull
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/

1981- 1990 Outrage 18
1991 Outrage 19
1992 Outrage 19 II

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/18Outrage/

You may be guided by the enormous popularity of the classic Boston Whaler MONTAUK 17 boat, which was in production for over thirty years, or its two up-dated revisions, the 170 MONTAUK and the post-2018 170 MONTAUK.

You can read about the introduction of the 170 MONTAUK at

2002 170 MONTAUK
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/170Montauk/

And you can read about the introduction of the 2018 170 MONTAUK at

Boston Whaler Introduces the 2018 170 MONTAUK
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2588&p=22058&

With a budget of $30,000 I would expect you should be able to find 170 MONTAUK boats available with modern engines, on trailers, and in good condition.

The forum does not collect information on boats made by SCOUT, KEY WEST, or PIONEER, and you will not find any information about boats made by those companies here.

The Boston Whaler boat is constructed in a fundamentally different and unique method than any other boat, with the possible exception of EVERGLADES and EDGEWATER boats (which were founded by Bob Dougherty, the former head designer at Boston Whaler after he left the company). To learn more about how a Boston Whaler boat is made, you should read several articles in REFERENCE that discuss the methods used:

BOSTON WHALER FACTORY TOUR
Where Legends Are Made

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/factory.html

Original Patent of the Boston Whaler Hull Construction
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... atent.html

The fundamental difference between Boston Whaler and almost all other boats is the unique double-bottom hull with completely filled foam construction that creates enormous reserve floatation, allowing Boston Whaler boat hulls to remain afloat even when the hull is swamped with water. This is referred to as the Unibond hull construction. It also creates a very strong hull. As thousands of Boston Whaler boats have demonstrated, a 50-year useful life span is not unusual for a well-cared-for Boston Whaler boat.

I strongly recommend you read all of the articles I have linked above, and follow the many hyperlinks in those articles to more articles about the boats.

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:34 pm

Mpcuse1 wrote:I prefer a boat that I could tow easily...


Any boat is easy to tow if the tow vehicle is appropriate to the trailer loaded weight. Since no information has been given about a tow vehicle to be used to tow the desired boat in a "easy" manner, it is difficult to speculate on how easily any of the boats mentioned might be towed in this case.

An older classic MONTAUK 17 will be the lightest-weight boat for towing, and it can usually be towed safety on the highway at highway speeds for long distances with vehicles with tow ratings around 3,500-lbs. A 170 MONTAUK will be heavier, as will an OUTRAGE 18.

If you only need to tow short distances on side roads at low speeds on level ground, you can tow a MONTAUK 17 with probably any vehicle that can be fitted with a hitch and has at least a 1,500-lbs tow rating.

Generally most boaters get the boat they want and then find the right vehicle to tow it.

Mpcuse1 wrote:I prefer a boat that I could...launch solo at times....

The ease of launching a boat by yourself is generally a function of the launch ramp facilities. Ramps with long courtesy docks and with properly sloping ramps make launching by one person possible without too much difficulty. The lighter the total boat weight the more easily the boat can be manhandled at the dock with lines or pushing it. Between a MONTAUK 17 and an OUTRAGE 18, the MONTAUK will be easier to launch alone without any assistance, but both can be launched by one person who knows what they are doing.

Mpcuse1 wrote:I prefer a boat...that possibly fits in the garage.


A MONTAUK 17 or a 170 MONTAUK can fit in some garages. Vertical clearance can be a limitation more than length or width limitations. An OUTRAGE is probably too big for most garages, unless purpose built to house big items.

Mpcuse1
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby Mpcuse1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:41 pm

biggiefl wrote:Does she just want to relax or do you mean Pontoon boat relax?


Definitely not a pontoon boat.

Going offshore is limited to seldom at best in 17-to-19-feet-long boats. Thank you.

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:01 pm

Regarding the DAUNTLESS dual-console models: there is no reason the DAUNTLESS boats couldn't be used for angling. The dual-console also provides the same seating for the passenger as for the helmsman, which can be an advantage. Sometimes two people find trying to share a single bench seat at a center console to be a bit too tight for comfort.

Regarding bow mounted trolling motors: the usual problem encountered is interference with the bow railings. But this is overcome by choice of an appropriate trolling motor with appropriate mounting facilities and tilting features.

Regarding being able to install a SONAR, there is no problem with SONAR installation on Boston Whaler boats as long as the transducer is a transom mount transducer. You cannot use inboard transducers that shoot through the hull because of the double bottom construction.

For advice on installation of SONAR transducers on Boston Whaler Unibond hulls see

SONAR Transducers
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/refere ... ducer.html

cb_nbpt
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby cb_nbpt » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:39 pm

jimh wrote:A DAUNTLESS is not a center console boat, so in your search for a first center-console boat, you probably would not want a DAUNTLESS. A DAUNTLESS is typically a dual console boat with the helm on starboard and a walk-though windshield to the bow.

The Dauntless 17 was a dual console but all others (13, 14, 15,16, 18, etc) were center console, correct?

biggiefl
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby biggiefl » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:50 pm

You are correct, I think they had a larger model like a 20 but that might be the first of the Ventura line. You should be able to find a newer nice example of a Montauk or possibly a dauntless in your range. An Outrage is going to be older as they are considerably more expensive.

What are you towing with?
On my 24th Whaler. Currently in the stable: 86 18' Outrage, 81 13' Sport(original owner), 87 11' Sport, 69 Squall. :roll:

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:11 pm

Finding a DAUNTLESS center console will be much harder than finding a MONTAUK 17 center console. There are two problems in finding a DAUNTLESS center console

--several models of DAUNTLESS center console boats in appropriate hull length were only made in limited production
--most of the models of DAUNTLESS center console boats are probably too small or too large for your target use

Here is a rundown of DAUNTLESS center console boats:

13 DAUNTLESS made in 1995, 1996, 1997; limited production, too small
14 DAUNTLESS made in 1999, 2000; limited production, too small
15 DAUNTLESS made in 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998; more production, too small
16 DAUNTLESS made in 1999 to 2006; eight years of production, size about right
18/180 DAUNTLESS made in 1998 to 2006; nine years of production, size perhaps too large
22/220 DAUNTLESS made in 2000 to 2006; seven years of production, way too large

The dual console boats were the
17 DAUNTLESS made in 1995, 1996, 1997; limited production, right size
20 DAUNTLESS made in 1996, 1997; limited production, too large

The principal difference between DAUNTLESS and MONTAUK will be the the DAUNTLESS boats will have a built-in below-deck fuel tank and will weight more. I suspect that in any model year when both DAUNTLESS and MONTAUK were available, the MONTAUK outsold the DAUNTLESS model by a big margin. The MONTAUK would have been less expensive, lighter, and had a simpler interior, making it easier to maintain and keep clean.

The 18/180 DAUNTLESS is a 2,000-lbs hull. The Montauk 17 is 950-lbs hull, less than half the weight. Less weight means smaller horsepower engine needed, easier to trailer, better fuel efficiency, easier to launch by yourself.

Masbama
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby Masbama » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:05 pm

Numerous center console Dauntless models are still being made. One model is the Dauntless 170 which may work for you and be in your price range if you don’t mind buying a used boat.
https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2019-bo ... s-7361882/

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:59 pm

I guess my bias for older boats is showing. I really didn't think about a current model 170 DAUNTLESS. That used 2019 boat--almost new really--for $34,000 might be in the price range. And now--this is hard to believe--the 170 DAUNTLESS (dry weight 1680-lbs) is lighter than a 170 MONTAUK (dry weight 1700-lbs). I also see the 170 MONTAUK II (for post-2018) now has an integrated 25-gallon fuel tank.

What is the principal difference between a 2020 170 MONTAUK and a 2020 170 DAUNTLESS?

roundle1979
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby roundle1979 » Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:33 am

Based on your budget and size preference, I would consider the current Nantucket/Outrage 190.

The Outrage 190's been produced without major changes since 2003: https://www.bostonwhaler.com/family-ove ... 0-outrage/

I found a (fresh water) 2004 Nantucket 190 up in the Finger Lakes this time last year.

If you went with the Nantucket/Outrage, you could go in one of two directions: Find an older version w/ an original motor (for $15,000 or more) and then re-power; or, buy the nicest version that you can find within your budget. While the brand new Outrage 190 can be configured to cost $80,000, I see nice examples listing below $30,000.

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:21 pm

If you don't need the boat to be easily towed on the highway on its trailer, and don't need the boat to fit in your garage, and you don't need a boat that can be launched and loaded by one person at any sort of boat ramp, and your budget can exceed $30,000, then, heck, I'd go for a used 220 DAUNTLESS and immediately re-power with a new engine.

Maybe we could get some a word or two from our prospective first-time center-console owner on what really are the limitations that will actually constrain his search for his first center console boat. So far the only feedback has been he doesn't want a pontoon boat.

Masbama
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby Masbama » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:36 pm

jimh wrote:What is the principal difference between a 2020 170 MONTAUK and a 2020 170 DAUNTLESS?


The best I can tell, the principal differences between a 2020 170 Montauk and a 2020 170 Dauntless are hull design, size (Montauk is larger), options (Dauntless offers more) and price--Dauntless is more expensive with comparable options.

wapple
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby wapple » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:17 am

I am very fortunate to own a 1984 Classic Montauk 17' and a 2000 Dauntless 220. Both are center consoles, and reside in a RI bay on Block Island Sound. I find both to be amazing boats, with each fulfilling unique needs. To the OP, you could find either of these well below your $30k price point - how close depends on engine age.

The Montauk tows easily, launches solo, and fits in my garage. The Dauntless does not, but I love it just a little bit more. Way more space. More luxury for my wife (although she greatly prefers driving the Montauk) and more conducive to my now older kids enjoyment (wakeboarding, tubing, skiing, foiling). We are not big on fishing, but both do the job. We mostly stay on "the pond" (bay) but go offshore into Block Island Sound on occasion and while both do the job in calm seas obviously the 220 handles better. Which of my "kids" do I like better? Impossible to answer. The Montauk is easier on all fronts, but the Dauntless is IMO one of the most versatile BW boats out there and worth the extra effort/time/money.

Mpcuse1
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby Mpcuse1 » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:37 am

jimh wrote:If you don't need the boat to be easily towed on the highway on its trailer, and don't need the boat to fit in your garage, and you don't need a boat that can be launched and loaded by one person at any sort of boat ramp, and your budget can exceed $30,000, then, heck, I'd go for a used 220 DAUNTLESS and immediately re-power with a new engine.

Maybe we could get some a word or two from our prospective first-time center-console owner on what really are the limitations that will actually constrain his search for his first center console boat. So far the only feedback has been he doesn't want a pontoon boat.


Jimh—thanks for steering me in the right research direction.

The limitation is to not spend as much money on a used boat as a small house will cost.

I must be able to tow the new boat.

The new boat only needs to fit in the driveway if the garage is too small to house it.

I want to know the ride characteristics of these hulls.

Q: these these hulls cut thru the waves easily?

Q: or, do they slap and pound in the chop?

Q: is one hull designed to give a better ride when the wind picks up or in the chop?

Q: is the ride dry in a boat this size?

Q: is the stability at rest for fishing?

Q: are any of these hulls tippy?

There are few dealers and few boats for sale in my area to look at. For the right boat I will travel and hire a marine surveyor.

The main use for the new boat will be angling or cruising around with my better half and maybe a couple of friends.

I plan to move to the South. It would be nice to use the new boat in the bays, AIWW, and if my nerve and conditions are right, do some angling in the nearshore reefs and or the Gulf Stream.

[A number of questions about installation of electronics, use of multiple batteries, mounting of trolling motors have been deleted. This post already contains many questions. Start a new thread in the SMALL BOAT ELECTRICAL forum to get advice on small boat electrical and electronics topics—jimh]

[I want to hear from boat] owners [or from anyone who has] ridden on the various models. To hear from these people will help to narrow my search [for a new boat].

Thank you to all who have contributed input.

jimh
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby jimh » Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:06 am

Buy a classic MONTAUK 17.

Masbama
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby Masbama » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:39 pm

I have some history with some of those models which may be helpful. My first boat was a 1977 17 Montauk. I had it for fifteen years. It went through three engines and three trailers. It was a joy to own. I went twenty miles out in the gulf to the shallow waters of the Mobile Delta. I felt so safe in it. It was easy to trailer, clean and operate. It is still in use to this day.
When our second child came along and we felt we needed more space I started looking around. My cousin in Dallas came upon a 1999 Dauntless 18. It was a big learning curve as it was a “full grown boat” with an internal gas tank, a 150 hp engine and weighed about twice as much as the Montauk. Not as easy to clean, trailer or operate but once I got used to it’s characteristics it was fun though not as economical as the Montauk. It did have a softer ride and incredible amount of room for an 18 foot boat. I had it for ten years and see it out once in a while.
I made an impulse purchase three years ago and bought a 2003 190 Nantucket. Beautiful boat and rides a bit better than the Dauntless but has less storage area.
Of the three the Montauk was my favorite but the Dauntless was more practical for our needs. Hope this helps.
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AuxHoo
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Re: First Center Console Boat

Postby AuxHoo » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:24 pm

jimh wrote:Buy a classic MONTAUK 17.


I second that. I bought a 1986 Montauk this Spring and LOVE it. Full disclosure: I had to re-power it and make a few modifications, but I don't see myself ever parting with this boat.