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  Moving Up...Outrage 24 or 25?

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Author Topic:   Moving Up...Outrage 24 or 25?
Flying Nutshell posted 05-15-2000 09:44 PM ET (US)   Profile for Flying Nutshell   Send Email to Flying Nutshell  
New to the Forum today, but great fun catching up! Familiar with an 88 18 and 91 22 Outrage, and thinking of moving up to a 24 Accutrack or 25 Classic Outrage. Experience/opinions/advice welcomed! Thanks!
Louie Kokinis posted 05-16-2000 11:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
My vote is for the 25. They are looking at cancelling production of the 22 guardian (2000 was slated to be the last year for it), but still offer the 25 (for how long, nobody knows).

The guardian costs more, but IMO is worth every penny.

Louie

Clark Roberts posted 05-16-2000 12:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
I agree with Louie... Spruce Creek Navy
lhg posted 05-16-2000 02:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I have recently heard that Commercial Products will keep making the "Classic" Outrage hulls as long as the molds hold up. Evidently, some of these are getting worn out, like the 22, and Sea Ray evidently will not invest another $300,000 per mold to replace them, instead preferring to produce their own new Outrage hulls which they think are superior, and results in lower production costs.

Regarding the Reebock era 24 Accutrack vs the Dougherty Classic 25, I've got to agree with Louie & Clark. Find a good 25 if you can, but I'm highly prejudiced since I own one! The 24, even though they didn't sell that many of them, will be easier to find used from what I've seen, since people don't hold on to them that long. If you like a deeper V and higher sides, with a large, high console, you'll prefer the 24. It will also ride smoother pushing it hard & fast into a head sea, if that is your style of boating. But it will be nowhere near as stable a fishing platform or as good in all other sea conditions, and very few people will even recognize that you actually have a Boston Whaler. But it still is a big, solid, nice looking boat, with pretty good Whaler quality. The hull actually began life in 1991 as the 23 Walkaround, and they modified the bow a bit to give it a little more Whaler identity.

I think the Classic 25 Outrage (and it's related Cuddy & Revenge models) is one of Whaler's finest boats ever, and they are still in demand and hard to find in good shape. It has a huge amount of interior room, particularly if built with the full transom design, and is functional for any type of boating activity, including cruising and staying aboard. It's incredibly seaworthy and will take you in safety places you shouldn't even consider going. It has tremendous offshore stability which is why it has been so popular for military & commercial uses.

In May of 1993, 5 of us took my Outrage 25 on the first Boston Whaler Bahamas trip, from Palm Beach to the Abacos. The weather was a 25 knot east wind, straight in our face, resulting in a continuous 6'-7' sea against us. Actually, the trip should have been postponed a day, but it wasn't and we all headed out. All sizes of Whalers participated in this nightmare crossing, about 35 boats in total, which took 18 hours altogether, 6 of which just to cross the Gulf Stream into West End, from a 27 down to a Montauk and including the new 21 & 24' Outrage hulls. Well, we were first in to West End Grand Bahama out of all the boats, and actually had to keep slowing down for the others to catch up. The 25 handled the big seas beautifully. A 22 Outrage arrived second, followed by a new 21 Walkaround. There were several 18 Outrages on the trip, and they had a tougher time, but made it. As for the Montauk, well, we all know they'll go anywhere, but actually the Montauk wisely followed in the wake of the 27, and didn't have quite enough fuel capacity for the rough weather. The fact that all boats made this 175 mile trip safely was a tribute to the Boston Whaler boats and the kind of capable boaters that choose to buy them.

Walt Steffens posted 05-16-2000 04:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for Walt Steffens  Send Email to Walt Steffens     
Flying: I vote with Louie,Clark and the guys. I've had both a '22 & '25 of this design and both were outstanding.
Louie Kokinis posted 05-16-2000 06:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
I was told (by a whaler engineer) that the 25 is simply the best hull Whaler has produced. Apparently the Navy has done many comparisons - unfortunately they aren't published, so how they come to their conclusions is anyone’s guess. The pecking order was 25'-22'-27'. He also told me that the older hulls cost more to build. The new hulls are 3 pieces, so there is considerable savings during lay-up. They also require less time in the mold - something to do with the edges being rounded vs sharp on the old hulls.

This is my 3rd 22 hull (the other 2 where used) I spent the extra dollars knowing exactly what I wanted. If you can afford a new 25, don't even think about it - place your order. If not try to find a good used one because the end of an era is coming up fast.

Louie

PS My last conversation revealed a plan to replace the current 22 guardian with the 22 dauntless hull. How's that for replacing an apple with an orange?

lhg posted 05-16-2000 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
In the summer of 1998, a senior Whaler exec told me the Company had just received an order to build 60 25' "Raiders" from the US Coast Guard, complete with Whaler trailers.
These are produced in a dark battleship gray, and mount .50 cal & 7.62mm machine guns for patrol duty. Evidently they can be loaded, trailer and all, into the rear of a cargo plane and flown to where needed. A similar version of the 22 was used in the Persian Gulf. The Coast Guard evidently passed up the newer 24' hull in favor of the older 25.
Louie Kokinis posted 05-16-2000 09:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
I saw one at the factory - the raider is a "MEAN" looking boat. I was originally going to order my boat in the dark (battleship) gray, but both the dealer and the factory recommended the lighter gray because it is SAR friendly.

The one I saw had the aluminum console, folding radar tower (pole?), gun mounts (no machine guns), and the stainless cutwater.

The cutwater, aluminum console, radar arch, and gun mounts add over $30,000 to the selling price of the boat, add the trailer and its over $40,000 more than what I paid for my (already, expensive) little boat!


lhg posted 05-16-2000 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
At least we know a FEW of our tax dollars are being well spent on good products!
Flying Nutshell posted 05-17-2000 08:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Flying Nutshell  Send Email to Flying Nutshell     
Thanks for the quick responses and advice.

I really do like my Classic 18 and 22 (and SS17Ltd and Harpoon4.6). I'm certainly a Whaler fan, and I agree there's nothing like the Classic hull...the profile, and even the color, to stir the heart! I've also never received so many unsolicited compliments, at the ramp, and on the water. Maybe no other boat commands such attention and respect, and for me, that's all part of the fun of owning Whalers.

However, my 22, with 115Yam twins, and without WhalerDrive, is just a bit heavy in the stern for comfortable drift fishing in the 4 footers we often face in DE/MD inshore ocean waters. I'm told the 24 is a completely different boat, smoother with AccuTrack, and not stern heavy, and at 8'6", very stable.

Even if it is, I'm still not sure I can live with the reduced smirk, nor the purple/white color. I was wondering, probably hoping, that the 25, with (or without?) WhalerDrive, would allow me to routinely fish bigger water, provide more room and range, and stay with Classics. I'm in no rush, so finding the right used boat, be it a 24 or 25, is part of the fun!

lhg posted 05-18-2000 01:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The problem you mention with your 22 does not exist with the 25. For maximum fishability, try to find a full transom 25 with Whaler Drive. The boat has twice the interior usable space as the 24. Don't let the 8'6 beam fool you on stability. The 25 has more transom beam at the WATERLINE than the 24, and is more stable laterally in all sea conditions. If you measure gunwale to gunwale interior dimension, you'll see the 25 is also wider in interior space. In the 25, and all of the Classic Outrages, Dougherty designed the maximum beam to carry straight back to the transom. In the 24, designed by VanLancker, the max beam of 8'6 tapers back to 8'0 at the transom. Also, the 25 takes less horsepower and fuel for the same performance.

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