Fishin' Whaler - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  Fishin' Whaler

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Fishin' Whaler

TRIDENT posted 07-06-2000 04:10 PM ET (US)
I currently have a 17' Montauk which I love and never plan to sell. It makes a great fishing boat for the bay and jetties here in Texas. I am looking to expand my horizons by adding another Whaler to the fleet. I am looking to fish 40 to 50 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. As you may know, we have a high-energy coastline (ie lots of wind) and relatively shallow water. This gives us a lot of days with 3' chop (short duration of 3 seconds). I plan to tie up to oil rigs to bottom fish, hit some wrecks and do some trolling for sails. I am undecided on which hulls I should be considering. Nothing post 1990 please. I love the room to fish provided by a center console, but a cuddy might be nice to overnight in. I will be towing the rig with my Chevy Tahoe. I am going to make a slow, careful decision, but am interested in which boats ya'll think would fit my needs. Thanks and DragsABurnin'! TRIDENT
lhg posted 07-07-2000 01:12 PM ET (US)
For your purposes, I would recommend either the Outrage 22 or 25,(available 1980-1993) preferably with the full transom Whaler Drive if you can find one (full transom models available 1987-1993), and with twin engines for such serious offshore work. I have such a boat, so I am admittedly prejudiced, but when equipped with the Mills Flying Top Set, and side & aft curtain, you can comfortably use it for overnighting easily. I would guess that new Mills canvas for an open Outrage would run over $2000, but it's worth every penny.
There are many pictures of my rig in the Cetacea section for your reference. This setup will truly give you all weather protection of any type that you need at a given time, including wind, rain or sun. Considerering your hot humid summer climate down there, I would think a hard cabin model, like the Revenge, would be less desireable and less flexible. Go with the Mills equipped Outrage, which I like to refer to as a "convertible", giving you the best of both worlds. The 25 is deceptively a lot more boat than the 22, so compare which size makes the most sense for you. Either will suit your needs, however.
Ed Stone posted 07-08-2000 11:02 PM ET (US)
Hey Trident,
For that distance offshore I would suggest the 25 ft. Outrage with twin Outboards.
They also have the Outrage cuddy models with a center console and a cabin.Like larry said they would get hot.I saw a A.C. unit they claimed would run off of a inverter(M5-5,200 BTU ac)11 by 15 inches wide,11 inches high,31Lbs. designed to use with a 1000 watt inverter.Here is there adress Http://Mmair.com
Good luck
bigz posted 07-09-2000 10:17 AM ET (US)
Trident,
For my two cents worth, would suggest a 25 cuddy or walkaround for what you plan on using her. The cuddy/cabin affords plenty of enclosed storage, which the canvas doesn't, and doesn't take away a bit from the openness for fishing. With the addition of the Mills storm curtain set up you'll have one comfortable boat for most any type of conditions you may encounter. A real plus, the forward deck is always accessible unlike the canvas "tunnel" dodger if need arises (now Larry don't even start ---chuckle) , but the real bonus again is the storage, decent sleeping accommodations (not highly recommended in either canvas or cuddy but useful when the need arises) and the ability to store and use your port-a -potty in a relatively enclosed area (ladies like that idea :)).
Them's my thoughts, since you want to trailer it, and like all thoughts are mine and others have theirs and the ultimate thought/decision will still be yours --- keep on puffing them drags --- Tom
Louie Kokinis posted 07-10-2000 12:46 AM ET (US)
I agree with Larry, but if you don't intend to trade up your tow vehicle you the 25 will probably give you headaches down the road. I tow mine with a 1 ton dually (diesel) but occasionally borrow my brothers Tahoe (350 with 3.73's). The Tahoe struggles with the 22 - really cant see it lasting pulling a 25.
Louie
Backlash posted 07-10-2000 08:57 AM ET (US)
Louie,
I'm surprised that your brother's Tahoe struggles pulling your 22' Outrage. My Explorer(V6, auto)does a decent job pulling my 21' Walkaround on level ground, but REALLY struggles when hills are present. I figure my rig (boat, motor, & trailer)weigh about 4500#. Past 55 mph wind resistance becomes the problem more so than the weight. I would guess that my Explorer would have an easier time pulling your Outrage than my Walkaround due to less wind resistance. What do you figure your rig weighs? I've pulled my boat with a full size Ford van (5.8 V8, auto) and it had no problems at all. Just curious as I am in the market for a new tow vehicle and the Tahoe was at the top of my list.
Steve
lhg posted 07-10-2000 02:00 PM ET (US)
Steve: You haven't seen the mountain grades of Vancouver Island, Louie's home turf!
As you know, my "ole Caddy" has the GM 7000lb tow package, with Chevy 350 & 3.73 axle, and it handles my 25 easily, as long as I use the weight distributing hitch. My Cad mechanic says that, except for the truck suspension, it's a Tahoe in disguise. GM recommends 2 wheel drive for towing.
Louie Kokinis posted 07-10-2000 04:58 PM ET (US)
Steve, the Tahoe is ok for around the city, but when you add steep grades to the equation it sucks. My brother’s Tahoe consistently shifts between 2nd and 3rd keeping up with my truck with only his camping supplies and family on board (NO BOAT behind it). The 1 ton (loaded, with the boat in tow) will hold 60 mph up most grades – while the Tahoe (boat in tow) will barely hold 40 on the same grades.
My 22 on the trailer weighs over 5500#'s. The amount of wear and tear on the drivetrain, brakes, frame, etc is minimal since the boat weight is well below the trucks recommended maximum. Other than regular maintenance and fuel - we have never spent any additional dollars on any of our tow vehicles - all rolled past 200,000 miles before they where sold.
IMO an explorer (6 or 8 cyl) or light 1/2 ton truck weren't designed to pull more than 3500 lbs over steep grades. I realize it can be done, but the truck will most likely be bagged before its time.
Louie

bigz posted 07-11-2000 07:16 AM ET (US)
Surprises me also Louie on your 22, then again after hauling with a one ton dually anything else would seem to struggle, I guess! Heck could even haul our 27 probably with out much strain --- if it was legal.
I do agree with you a Tahoe V-8 is really on the light side for hauling a 25 or big Revenge for anything but short hauls on relatively flat terrain. If Trident is planning on doing a lot of hauling over various terrain it would take it toll very quickly on the Tahoe.
My guess Larry your Caddy is and has been babied well hauling the 25 with a lot of TLC. I also recall you mentioning that grades do slow you down quit a bit and the gas sort of just evaporates like there was no such thing as an Oil Cartel --- chuckle ----
All things considered one has to size the vehicle for the task to achieve not only stability/safety but economics in hauling heavy loads --- the one ton dually is over kill for boats in this size yet in one sense it doesn't suffer from strain or probably any significant decrease in mileage using a diesel and if you have other uses for it might make economic sense but to just haul a boat around hardly --- a better choice is just about any 3/4 ton long wheel base model equipped with a V-8 or diesel for that matter, this would include pick ups, Suburban and the big Ford whatever that new Suburban killer is named ---

Just a few thoughts since I ain't hauling the 27 any where on any vehicle --- my observations from 20 years of hauling horses around the country in Ohio through out the Northeast using everything from an IH Scout to dually pick ups including a few old Ford station wagons --- horses aren't passive passengers and the wind resistance plays a very important factor --- and so does the economy of the haul (unless your rolling in dough)
Tom

triblet posted 07-11-2000 03:47 PM ET (US)
The new big Ford UAV (Urban Assault Vehicle)
is the Excursion, and it's based on the F350
chassis. The F350 is a 1-ton, right?
Chuck Tribolet
whalernut posted 07-11-2000 04:48 PM ET (US)
The Ford F350 is a 1-Ton. Regards-JACK.
TRIDENT posted 07-12-2000 04:34 PM ET (US)
I plan on keeping the Tahoe (fuel injected 350, 2WD, 4 door, auto) for a long time. I live in Texas, only hills I see are overpasses. I want to be able to tow the boat around a bit, so maybe I should go with a 22' Outrage. I think my Tahoe could handle it just fine on this flat terrain and my wife should be allright as long as I give her plenty of shade. Thanks a lot for all the ideas. Happy Whalin'! TRIDENT
Clark Roberts posted 07-12-2000 06:31 PM ET (US)
I tow with a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 318 V8,with all wheel drive and 4 wheel low auto transmission. Also has a factory towing package.. I was amazed as to how much stuff mades up a towing package. And I suppose most tow packages contain about the same inventory, like: heavy duty alternator, brakes, radiator, transmission oil cooler, power steering pump, flasher, tail/turn/brake light wiring, wheels, lugs etc. ; traction master link rods on rear, anti-sway bars and hyd. steering damper in front, more spring travel and stiffer spring rates plus higher (one inch) suspension, special hitch... etc..etc..
A trailer hitch does not a tow package make!
Happy Trailering.... Clark
Backlash posted 07-12-2000 07:47 PM ET (US)
Wow Clark, apparently all towing packages are not created equal! My Explorer (V6, auto, 2WD) has the optional towing package consisting of trans cooler, 3.73 rear end, HD alternator, and wiring harness. It also has the optional limited-slip differential. Believe it or not, it is rated at 6200# towing capacity! What were they thinking? The only reason I consider it "barely acceptable" in pulling my 21 is the lower rear end, trans cooler, and the fact that the 225 ft lbs of torque comes on at 2400 rpm. Interestingly, my Ford owners manual while rating the towing capacity at 6200# also limits the frontal area of the trailer/boat to 50 sq ft.
Steve

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Fishin' Whaler
TRIDENT	posted 07-06-2000 04:10 PM ET (US) I currently have a 17' Montauk which I love and never plan to sell. It makes a great fishing boat for the bay and jetties here in Texas. I am looking to expand my horizons by adding another Whaler to the fleet. I am looking to fish 40 to 50 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. As you may know, we have a high-energy coastline (ie lots of wind) and relatively shallow water. This gives us a lot of days with 3' chop (short duration of 3 seconds). I plan to tie up to oil rigs to bottom fish, hit some wrecks and do some trolling for sails. I am undecided on which hulls I should be considering. Nothing post 1990 please. I love the room to fish provided by a center console, but a cuddy might be nice to overnight in. I will be towing the rig with my Chevy Tahoe. I am going to make a slow, careful decision, but am interested in which boats ya'll think would fit my needs. Thanks and DragsABurnin'! TRIDENT
lhg	posted 07-07-2000 01:12 PM ET (US) For your purposes, I would recommend either the Outrage 22 or 25,(available 1980-1993) preferably with the full transom Whaler Drive if you can find one (full transom models available 1987-1993), and with twin engines for such serious offshore work. I have such a boat, so I am admittedly prejudiced, but when equipped with the Mills Flying Top Set, and side & aft curtain, you can comfortably use it for overnighting easily. I would guess that new Mills canvas for an open Outrage would run over $2000, but it's worth every penny. There are many pictures of my rig in the Cetacea section for your reference. This setup will truly give you all weather protection of any type that you need at a given time, including wind, rain or sun. Considerering your hot humid summer climate down there, I would think a hard cabin model, like the Revenge, would be less desireable and less flexible. Go with the Mills equipped Outrage, which I like to refer to as a "convertible", giving you the best of both worlds. The 25 is deceptively a lot more boat than the 22, so compare which size makes the most sense for you. Either will suit your needs, however.
Ed Stone	posted 07-08-2000 11:02 PM ET (US) Hey Trident, For that distance offshore I would suggest the 25 ft. Outrage with twin Outboards. They also have the Outrage cuddy models with a center console and a cabin.Like larry said they would get hot.I saw a A.C. unit they claimed would run off of a inverter(M5-5,200 BTU ac)11 by 15 inches wide,11 inches high,31Lbs. designed to use with a 1000 watt inverter.Here is there adress Http://Mmair.com Good luck
bigz	posted 07-09-2000 10:17 AM ET (US) Trident, For my two cents worth, would suggest a 25 cuddy or walkaround for what you plan on using her. The cuddy/cabin affords plenty of enclosed storage, which the canvas doesn't, and doesn't take away a bit from the openness for fishing. With the addition of the Mills storm curtain set up you'll have one comfortable boat for most any type of conditions you may encounter. A real plus, the forward deck is always accessible unlike the canvas "tunnel" dodger if need arises (now Larry don't even start ---chuckle) , but the real bonus again is the storage, decent sleeping accommodations (not highly recommended in either canvas or cuddy but useful when the need arises) and the ability to store and use your port-a -potty in a relatively enclosed area (ladies like that idea :)). Them's my thoughts, since you want to trailer it, and like all thoughts are mine and others have theirs and the ultimate thought/decision will still be yours --- keep on puffing them drags --- Tom
Louie Kokinis	posted 07-10-2000 12:46 AM ET (US) I agree with Larry, but if you don't intend to trade up your tow vehicle you the 25 will probably give you headaches down the road. I tow mine with a 1 ton dually (diesel) but occasionally borrow my brothers Tahoe (350 with 3.73's). The Tahoe struggles with the 22 - really cant see it lasting pulling a 25. Louie
Backlash	posted 07-10-2000 08:57 AM ET (US) Louie, I'm surprised that your brother's Tahoe struggles pulling your 22' Outrage. My Explorer(V6, auto)does a decent job pulling my 21' Walkaround on level ground, but REALLY struggles when hills are present. I figure my rig (boat, motor, & trailer)weigh about 4500#. Past 55 mph wind resistance becomes the problem more so than the weight. I would guess that my Explorer would have an easier time pulling your Outrage than my Walkaround due to less wind resistance. What do you figure your rig weighs? I've pulled my boat with a full size Ford van (5.8 V8, auto) and it had no problems at all. Just curious as I am in the market for a new tow vehicle and the Tahoe was at the top of my list. Steve
lhg	posted 07-10-2000 02:00 PM ET (US) Steve: You haven't seen the mountain grades of Vancouver Island, Louie's home turf! As you know, my "ole Caddy" has the GM 7000lb tow package, with Chevy 350 & 3.73 axle, and it handles my 25 easily, as long as I use the weight distributing hitch. My Cad mechanic says that, except for the truck suspension, it's a Tahoe in disguise. GM recommends 2 wheel drive for towing.
Louie Kokinis	posted 07-10-2000 04:58 PM ET (US) Steve, the Tahoe is ok for around the city, but when you add steep grades to the equation it sucks. My brother’s Tahoe consistently shifts between 2nd and 3rd keeping up with my truck with only his camping supplies and family on board (NO BOAT behind it). The 1 ton (loaded, with the boat in tow) will hold 60 mph up most grades – while the Tahoe (boat in tow) will barely hold 40 on the same grades. My 22 on the trailer weighs over 5500#'s. The amount of wear and tear on the drivetrain, brakes, frame, etc is minimal since the boat weight is well below the trucks recommended maximum. Other than regular maintenance and fuel - we have never spent any additional dollars on any of our tow vehicles - all rolled past 200,000 miles before they where sold. IMO an explorer (6 or 8 cyl) or light 1/2 ton truck weren't designed to pull more than 3500 lbs over steep grades. I realize it can be done, but the truck will most likely be bagged before its time. Louie
bigz	posted 07-11-2000 07:16 AM ET (US) Surprises me also Louie on your 22, then again after hauling with a one ton dually anything else would seem to struggle, I guess! Heck could even haul our 27 probably with out much strain --- if it was legal. I do agree with you a Tahoe V-8 is really on the light side for hauling a 25 or big Revenge for anything but short hauls on relatively flat terrain. If Trident is planning on doing a lot of hauling over various terrain it would take it toll very quickly on the Tahoe. My guess Larry your Caddy is and has been babied well hauling the 25 with a lot of TLC. I also recall you mentioning that grades do slow you down quit a bit and the gas sort of just evaporates like there was no such thing as an Oil Cartel --- chuckle ---- All things considered one has to size the vehicle for the task to achieve not only stability/safety but economics in hauling heavy loads --- the one ton dually is over kill for boats in this size yet in one sense it doesn't suffer from strain or probably any significant decrease in mileage using a diesel and if you have other uses for it might make economic sense but to just haul a boat around hardly --- a better choice is just about any 3/4 ton long wheel base model equipped with a V-8 or diesel for that matter, this would include pick ups, Suburban and the big Ford whatever that new Suburban killer is named --- Just a few thoughts since I ain't hauling the 27 any where on any vehicle --- my observations from 20 years of hauling horses around the country in Ohio through out the Northeast using everything from an IH Scout to dually pick ups including a few old Ford station wagons --- horses aren't passive passengers and the wind resistance plays a very important factor --- and so does the economy of the haul (unless your rolling in dough) Tom
triblet	posted 07-11-2000 03:47 PM ET (US) The new big Ford UAV (Urban Assault Vehicle) is the Excursion, and it's based on the F350 chassis. The F350 is a 1-ton, right? Chuck Tribolet
whalernut	posted 07-11-2000 04:48 PM ET (US) The Ford F350 is a 1-Ton. Regards-JACK.
TRIDENT	posted 07-12-2000 04:34 PM ET (US) I plan on keeping the Tahoe (fuel injected 350, 2WD, 4 door, auto) for a long time. I live in Texas, only hills I see are overpasses. I want to be able to tow the boat around a bit, so maybe I should go with a 22' Outrage. I think my Tahoe could handle it just fine on this flat terrain and my wife should be allright as long as I give her plenty of shade. Thanks a lot for all the ideas. Happy Whalin'! TRIDENT
Clark Roberts	posted 07-12-2000 06:31 PM ET (US) I tow with a Jeep Grand Cherokee, 318 V8,with all wheel drive and 4 wheel low auto transmission. Also has a factory towing package.. I was amazed as to how much stuff mades up a towing package. And I suppose most tow packages contain about the same inventory, like: heavy duty alternator, brakes, radiator, transmission oil cooler, power steering pump, flasher, tail/turn/brake light wiring, wheels, lugs etc. ; traction master link rods on rear, anti-sway bars and hyd. steering damper in front, more spring travel and stiffer spring rates plus higher (one inch) suspension, special hitch... etc..etc.. A trailer hitch does not a tow package make! Happy Trailering.... Clark
Backlash	posted 07-12-2000 07:47 PM ET (US) Wow Clark, apparently all towing packages are not created equal! My Explorer (V6, auto, 2WD) has the optional towing package consisting of trans cooler, 3.73 rear end, HD alternator, and wiring harness. It also has the optional limited-slip differential. Believe it or not, it is rated at 6200# towing capacity! What were they thinking? The only reason I consider it "barely acceptable" in pulling my 21 is the lower rear end, trans cooler, and the fact that the 225 ft lbs of torque comes on at 2400 rpm. Interestingly, my Ford owners manual while rating the towing capacity at 6200# also limits the frontal area of the trailer/boat to 50 sq ft. Steve