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Author Topic:   Need advice on Outrage purchase

David S posted 09-24-2000 07:12 PM ET (US)
I am looking to buy a 17'-18'Outrage. I have read all of the postings on this site and understand the alure of the Classic designs as well as the benefits of the newer incarnations. A brand spanking new boat is outside my budget, but I could stretch it a bit for a 3 or 4 year old model. I know that older versions are splendid, but may require new power, which can dramatically increase the ultimate on-the-water price. What I would ask those of you who care to respond, is to describe to me what the design, build, handling and esthetic differences between a pre'92 model vs a post '95 version. I am particularly interested in the ultimate safety factor. I have three little boys. While we (actually I) sail, a Whaler would allow my wife to get out onto the water with the boys. We live on the coast of Maine on a fairly sheltered stretch of water. I have looked at the Dauntless and Montauks as well, but like the idea of having my family in a boat that is sturdier than it probably has to be for our purposes. And I also know that the 80's vintage Outrages weigh about half of what the new ones do, but I don't know is that is a sign of strength or gluttony. So, at the risk of rekindling that "old vs new" debate, I do appreciate any thoughts you may care to pass along. Simply put, if yow were going to buy a 17'- 18' Outrage, what would you get, and why. Thank you all very kindly for your advise.
David S
tbirdsey posted 09-24-2000 09:02 PM ET (US)
David: Maybe I've just been very lucky with my purchases of older Whalers with older motors, but I still think there is no better value than a well maintained whaler from just about any year. My current 18 Outrage is a 1984 with a Merc 150 from the same year. Both hull and motor were well maintained with all service records handed over to me at time of purchase. In two years I have purchased a set of new plugs and replaced a corroded terminal on the power tilt (cost $1.95 plus 1 hour of my labor) plus other routine maintenance like winterizing. Prior to this I had used Sakonnet with a 65 Merc from 1968 - similar experience. So don't rule out an older hull with an older motor - just shop smart.
You will feel completely safe in an older 17 - Sakonnt, Nauset, etc - or a newer Montauk. You will be more comfortable in the Montauk and even more comfortable on an older 18 Outrage - especially as the boys get bigger. In my opinion, the older, lighter Outrages sacrifice absolutely nothing in terms of safety or handling - just remember these hulls are still being built (with a little extra fiberglass)for commercial and military use. These boats, even without the extra glass, are stronger than you will ever need. I can't comment on the relative riding comfort of the newer hulls, but dollar for dollar, but I'm convinced these Classics can't be beat if your priorities are safety and handling - just take the time to find one that has been well cared for.
Aesthetics is your call - whatever turns you on. I'm a designer and I love the classics, but that's just me. Good luck!!!
maverick posted 09-25-2000 06:21 AM ET (US)
I agree. I've owned 2 13s, 2 17s, and now have a 1985 Outrage 18 with new power (150 Johnson Ocean Runner last June). Wow, what a great machine. I dearly loved my Montauks, but this Outrage gives me more room and a definitely smoother ride that the better half enjoys. It commands total versatility, deep water, big water, and shallow draft and high speed for skimming the back waters. I'm impressed offshore, while fellow boaters are impressed at the ramp, as it gets respect and oohs and aahs at the ramp, even though it's 15 years old! You'll see law enforcement and USCG folks riding in one now and then, and I tip my hat at them. It IS more expensive though - older Montauk was about 1/2 of this boat, dollar-wise, but I'm not complaining - these old bones appreciate the ride and dry comfort. If you want additional info, please email me directly - I have pictures I can send you. Best, Chuck cweigle@groupz.net
wildeone posted 09-25-2000 05:00 PM ET (US)
I to have a "classic" 18 Outrage, boat,motor,trailer all 1984.Indoors stored and always covered this boat is in excellant shape. Have not spent any money (except spark plugs) on the engine. Remember to check the compression of a used outboard. The reading in all cylinders should be no more than 10% apart, with no standard for psi.
The boat is great in seas and my family loves it. My previous boat was a 19 Mako and theis Outrage hull completely outperforms the Mako in every aspect.
My motor is a Evinrude 150, if and when I re-power I would probably go smaller 125-135 hp. The Whaler with the 150 is like a surfboard with a engine!
Best boat I ahve owned!
Erick
David S posted 09-26-2000 07:27 PM ET (US)
Gentlemen, thank you all. David
Ed Stone posted 09-27-2000 10:01 PM ET (US)
Hey davidS,
I agree the purchase of a classic Whaler in
need of power can turn a good buy into a
average buy. But remember the classics are
what started it all.A whaler taken care of
and properly trailered will out last a lot
of motors.
I for one like some of the Neo-Whalers.
Some of the newer whalers have taller
Transoms and gunwales that will help
keep kids from falling off or out your
boat when you have to make sudden turns.
Some of the classics have optional
railing along the sides to do the same.
Power for boats have become such a
large investment that sometimes they
sway your purchase.
good luck.
djmerrill posted 10-02-2000 09:54 PM ET (US)
David:
Welcome to the same choice I faced last year. I also boat on the Maine coast and wanted a 17-18' Whaler. If you go back in the posts, you can find a lengthy discussion of why I ended up with a '91 17' Outrage.
Short answer: I would have been happy with any '83-'92 Outrage 18 or any '90-'94 Ourage 17 in good shape with a good motor or no motor. The one I bought happened to be the first one that I found in good shape near by. I wanted an Outrage instead of a Montauk for coastal trips (the boat is kept at our house on a Lake near Bangor). I have not been dissappointed. The newer whalers (Accutrak) 17' and 18' are MUCH heavier. I'm told they have a smoother ride, require more HP to push and more truck to tow.
If you are close to Bangor and want a ride or more details, Email me! You'll find almost all whaler owners happy to show off their boats.
Good luck, enjoy the hunt.
Doug
lhg posted 10-03-2000 11:38 PM ET (US)
The reason all these guys are recommending a Classic Outrage in the 17-18' range, (last offered in 1995) is that the replacement boats, designed under the Meridian era (Whaler's worst years) were not great boats. The Dougherty designed 17 Outrage was replaced with a new 17 Outrage, and the Dougherty/Reebock designed 18/19 Outrage II was replaced with a 19' Outrage, neither of which were big sellers and quickly replaced by Brunswick when they took over. If this is your hull size, stay with 1995 or older. If you're in Maine, and your wife & kids are planning on using this boat, Mills flying top sets should also be a consideration, and you can't get that on the Meridian era 17 & 18's.
Tom Byrum posted 10-06-2000 02:44 AM ET (US)
David I just returned from an albacore tuna trip with my son,(successful) which at one point we were 61 nautical miles from the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. There is no other boat built that is 11 years old and is only 18 feet long that would even consider following me each weekend on my fishing trips. People constantly crowd around my boat and say all kinds of cool stuff about my 11 year old boat. My advice to you is find an old outrage and buy it. Period.
Peter posted 10-06-2000 08:35 AM ET (US)
David, I totally agree with Tom's remarks. It may be a little bit hard to understand Tom's passion for his 18 until you've had one and have tackled some pretty difficult sea conditions. I've got one and I know exactly what Tom is talking about. At the time I got mine, many years ago now, I was really considering a Montauk and accidentally stumbled upon the 18 I now have. One of the best things I have ever stumbled upon. I may be crazy here, but I'm considering selling it now because I have recently added a 22 Revenge (response to my wife's request for a cabin) to my "fleet" and having two boats (even though they are Whalers) at this stage in our lives is considered by some members of my navy to be a bit excessive. They say that the best two days of owning a boat are the day you buy and the day you sell. I really don't think that saying applies to Whalers.

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Author	Topic: Need advice on Outrage purchase
David S	posted 09-24-2000 07:12 PM ET (US) I am looking to buy a 17'-18'Outrage. I have read all of the postings on this site and understand the alure of the Classic designs as well as the benefits of the newer incarnations. A brand spanking new boat is outside my budget, but I could stretch it a bit for a 3 or 4 year old model. I know that older versions are splendid, but may require new power, which can dramatically increase the ultimate on-the-water price. What I would ask those of you who care to respond, is to describe to me what the design, build, handling and esthetic differences between a pre'92 model vs a post '95 version. I am particularly interested in the ultimate safety factor. I have three little boys. While we (actually I) sail, a Whaler would allow my wife to get out onto the water with the boys. We live on the coast of Maine on a fairly sheltered stretch of water. I have looked at the Dauntless and Montauks as well, but like the idea of having my family in a boat that is sturdier than it probably has to be for our purposes. And I also know that the 80's vintage Outrages weigh about half of what the new ones do, but I don't know is that is a sign of strength or gluttony. So, at the risk of rekindling that "old vs new" debate, I do appreciate any thoughts you may care to pass along. Simply put, if yow were going to buy a 17'- 18' Outrage, what would you get, and why. Thank you all very kindly for your advise. David S
tbirdsey	posted 09-24-2000 09:02 PM ET (US) David: Maybe I've just been very lucky with my purchases of older Whalers with older motors, but I still think there is no better value than a well maintained whaler from just about any year. My current 18 Outrage is a 1984 with a Merc 150 from the same year. Both hull and motor were well maintained with all service records handed over to me at time of purchase. In two years I have purchased a set of new plugs and replaced a corroded terminal on the power tilt (cost $1.95 plus 1 hour of my labor) plus other routine maintenance like winterizing. Prior to this I had used Sakonnet with a 65 Merc from 1968 - similar experience. So don't rule out an older hull with an older motor - just shop smart. You will feel completely safe in an older 17 - Sakonnt, Nauset, etc - or a newer Montauk. You will be more comfortable in the Montauk and even more comfortable on an older 18 Outrage - especially as the boys get bigger. In my opinion, the older, lighter Outrages sacrifice absolutely nothing in terms of safety or handling - just remember these hulls are still being built (with a little extra fiberglass)for commercial and military use. These boats, even without the extra glass, are stronger than you will ever need. I can't comment on the relative riding comfort of the newer hulls, but dollar for dollar, but I'm convinced these Classics can't be beat if your priorities are safety and handling - just take the time to find one that has been well cared for. Aesthetics is your call - whatever turns you on. I'm a designer and I love the classics, but that's just me. Good luck!!!
maverick	posted 09-25-2000 06:21 AM ET (US) I agree. I've owned 2 13s, 2 17s, and now have a 1985 Outrage 18 with new power (150 Johnson Ocean Runner last June). Wow, what a great machine. I dearly loved my Montauks, but this Outrage gives me more room and a definitely smoother ride that the better half enjoys. It commands total versatility, deep water, big water, and shallow draft and high speed for skimming the back waters. I'm impressed offshore, while fellow boaters are impressed at the ramp, as it gets respect and oohs and aahs at the ramp, even though it's 15 years old! You'll see law enforcement and USCG folks riding in one now and then, and I tip my hat at them. It IS more expensive though - older Montauk was about 1/2 of this boat, dollar-wise, but I'm not complaining - these old bones appreciate the ride and dry comfort. If you want additional info, please email me directly - I have pictures I can send you. Best, Chuck cweigle@groupz.net
wildeone	posted 09-25-2000 05:00 PM ET (US) I to have a "classic" 18 Outrage, boat,motor,trailer all 1984.Indoors stored and always covered this boat is in excellant shape. Have not spent any money (except spark plugs) on the engine. Remember to check the compression of a used outboard. The reading in all cylinders should be no more than 10% apart, with no standard for psi. The boat is great in seas and my family loves it. My previous boat was a 19 Mako and theis Outrage hull completely outperforms the Mako in every aspect. My motor is a Evinrude 150, if and when I re-power I would probably go smaller 125-135 hp. The Whaler with the 150 is like a surfboard with a engine! Best boat I ahve owned! Erick
David S	posted 09-26-2000 07:27 PM ET (US) Gentlemen, thank you all. David
Ed Stone	posted 09-27-2000 10:01 PM ET (US) Hey davidS, I agree the purchase of a classic Whaler in need of power can turn a good buy into a average buy. But remember the classics are what started it all.A whaler taken care of and properly trailered will out last a lot of motors. I for one like some of the Neo-Whalers. Some of the newer whalers have taller Transoms and gunwales that will help keep kids from falling off or out your boat when you have to make sudden turns. Some of the classics have optional railing along the sides to do the same. Power for boats have become such a large investment that sometimes they sway your purchase. good luck.
djmerrill	posted 10-02-2000 09:54 PM ET (US) David: Welcome to the same choice I faced last year. I also boat on the Maine coast and wanted a 17-18' Whaler. If you go back in the posts, you can find a lengthy discussion of why I ended up with a '91 17' Outrage. Short answer: I would have been happy with any '83-'92 Outrage 18 or any '90-'94 Ourage 17 in good shape with a good motor or no motor. The one I bought happened to be the first one that I found in good shape near by. I wanted an Outrage instead of a Montauk for coastal trips (the boat is kept at our house on a Lake near Bangor). I have not been dissappointed. The newer whalers (Accutrak) 17' and 18' are MUCH heavier. I'm told they have a smoother ride, require more HP to push and more truck to tow. If you are close to Bangor and want a ride or more details, Email me! You'll find almost all whaler owners happy to show off their boats. Good luck, enjoy the hunt. Doug
lhg	posted 10-03-2000 11:38 PM ET (US) The reason all these guys are recommending a Classic Outrage in the 17-18' range, (last offered in 1995) is that the replacement boats, designed under the Meridian era (Whaler's worst years) were not great boats. The Dougherty designed 17 Outrage was replaced with a new 17 Outrage, and the Dougherty/Reebock designed 18/19 Outrage II was replaced with a 19' Outrage, neither of which were big sellers and quickly replaced by Brunswick when they took over. If this is your hull size, stay with 1995 or older. If you're in Maine, and your wife & kids are planning on using this boat, Mills flying top sets should also be a consideration, and you can't get that on the Meridian era 17 & 18's.
Tom Byrum	posted 10-06-2000 02:44 AM ET (US) David I just returned from an albacore tuna trip with my son,(successful) which at one point we were 61 nautical miles from the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco. There is no other boat built that is 11 years old and is only 18 feet long that would even consider following me each weekend on my fishing trips. People constantly crowd around my boat and say all kinds of cool stuff about my 11 year old boat. My advice to you is find an old outrage and buy it. Period.
Peter	posted 10-06-2000 08:35 AM ET (US) David, I totally agree with Tom's remarks. It may be a little bit hard to understand Tom's passion for his 18 until you've had one and have tackled some pretty difficult sea conditions. I've got one and I know exactly what Tom is talking about. At the time I got mine, many years ago now, I was really considering a Montauk and accidentally stumbled upon the 18 I now have. One of the best things I have ever stumbled upon. I may be crazy here, but I'm considering selling it now because I have recently added a 22 Revenge (response to my wife's request for a cabin) to my "fleet" and having two boats (even though they are Whalers) at this stage in our lives is considered by some members of my navy to be a bit excessive. They say that the best two days of owning a boat are the day you buy and the day you sell. I really don't think that saying applies to Whalers.