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Author Topic:   Navy Seals using Whalers

Mark Gallagher posted 11-21-2000 08:13 PM ET (US)
I was watching the Discovery channel a few nights ago. The program was about Navy Seals and their training, tactics, etc.
I was impressed to see them on a training drill in South America using OD green Whalers that were HEAVILY armed and had tons of equipment on them including armored center consoles, radar, machine guns, etc.
If anyone gets a chance to see the program again it's very intersting not to mention the other parts about the Seals themselves.
The boats used were no doubt custom commercial units but they appeared to be about 22 foot outrage/classic hulls.
Mark
Sam Collins posted 11-21-2000 08:30 PM ET (US)
I to saw the same show. Now if we could just get behind the wheel....
tspring posted 11-21-2000 08:36 PM ET (US)
hey i think i saw the same show too
frank posted 11-22-2000 12:17 AM ET (US)
mark- you are absolutely correct. they are the whaler guardian commercial line. did you notice the stainless keel guard? i'm proud to say i have one myself 18.6 ft. . (no keel guard) it was a former police boat. the hull is based on the outrage , but to the best of my knowledge is beefed up quite a bit. the hull is supposed to have extra glass in the high wear areas. and the hardware looks like it would be suitable for carrier duty. mr. fisher wasn't playing when he put these vessels together. they can be configured to various duties . most fire and police depts. use guardians because they are without exception - the toughest boats afloat , and are built to last. i'm not sure what length the seals use but they do appear to be 18' to 20'. i'm looking to replace mine with a smaller one . it is just to big-heavy for my needs. my chevy with an auto 350 p.u. pulls the package well enough, but recently i pulled my buddies 18 trophy in for repairs when his tow vehicle was in the shop and i could bearly tell it was hooked up. the guardians are heavy. if anyone knows what the weight difference is between a (classic) outrage 18 and a guardian 18 please let me know. thanks-
Louie Kokinis posted 11-22-2000 12:43 AM ET (US)
Frank, its only a few hundred pounds more than the rec version. I tow my 22 Guardian with the same pickup I used for my 22 Outrage - I havn't noticed any difference.
Louie
eric_from_MD posted 11-22-2000 03:12 PM ET (US)
Frank- The weight diff. is 500 lbs. I believe it's in the hull and backing material combined. I am currently trying to get mine in shape for the spring. I now have the floor up and the gas tank out. The specs of the current 19 guardian matches ours. Can't wait to get it running, I found a leftover (new) 98 150 salwater series yamaha to hang on her. Eric
frank posted 11-23-2000 12:06 AM ET (US)
eric- i have basically the same setup the yamaha 150 is a very strong runner. mine is a 1994 and it really moves the boat. i get close to 50 mph on ultra smooth water ( 48 indicated g.p.s.). so you can expect at least that. now that you have the floorboards off your guardian, do you notice any thing different from an outrage ? i heard that the guardians have some sort of stringer system supporting the fuel tank.
dgp posted 11-23-2000 05:22 AM ET (US)
For a great CG action photo see www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/boats/coastguard/cg-foal2k.jpg
eric_from_MD posted 11-23-2000 11:24 PM ET (US)
Frank- I have never seen under a outrage, but from what I have heard from hear and other sites they are the same as far as the naked eye can see. There may be stringers behind the glass tub that the tank sits in. The tank is 8' 7" long and about a foot deep down the center (v shaped), it sits in a fiberglass tub with thin rubber under it and foam poured around to hold it in place. There are 3 alm. bands with rubber under them that bolt/screw into the hull to hold the tank down. along side the tank tub is the control trough (sp) 4-6" wide and several inches deep...thats it. The interesting thing is that any water that gets into the tank tub can never totally get out which leads to the corrosion/leaks. Getting on plane should allow most out the rear sump but some water once in there looks like it would always stay. I only had a couple gallons at most and all 5 access plates were of this hull for I don't know how long. I think the water has a hard time passing thru the foam that is surrounding the tank. Eric
frank posted 11-23-2000 11:38 PM ET (US)
i didn't realize the tank was over 8.5 feet long . i knew it had to be big - it holds 60 gallons. i have also heard that the area around the tank will hold some water, i guess no design is flawless . let me know how your project comes along. good luck >frank
jimh posted 11-25-2000 06:00 AM ET (US)
The Discovery Channel must have re-run that show last night, as I saw a segment about Navy Seal training with small boats. The boats were classic Whaler hulls, and they really looked great screaming up and down that jungle river. I couldn't tell what the length was, but it looked bigger than 22-feet.
lhg posted 11-28-2000 07:16 PM ET (US)
The very cool Whaler shown in dgp's link must be one of the 60 25' Raiders (Guardians in gunboat form) that the CG ordered about 3 years ago.
A BW exec told me at the time that each boat package was ordered complete with HD trailer and twin 200 engines, for air shipment to trouble spots for harbor patrol, to prevent incidents like just happened to the USS COLE. Similar 22's were deployed to the Persian Gulf in 1991. It's interesting to note that by 1997, when these boats were purchased, BW had other new hull models to choose from, but the Classic 25 was still chosen by the military.
I haven't seen the Seals program, but those boats could also be similar 25 Raiders.
QBrennan posted 11-29-2000 03:31 PM ET (US)
I saw the same show while on vacation quickly called two of my Whaler buddies who were on each side of the country and they were watching at the same show. Great minds think alike.
I love that keel gaurd. Wow, to have that reckless abandon for your boat. I don't know, there are sometimes when I don't even let my wife on board!
lhg posted 11-29-2000 03:57 PM ET (US)
The BW Commercial Products Keel Guard is a very heavy duty item. It is not simply screwed on from the outside, like one would expect, but rather must be pre-ordered before the hull is built. It has continuous studs which are moulded right into the layup, with the effect that the hull is actually built around the keel guard component. I'll bet it's a big extra.
Louie Kokinis posted 11-30-2000 01:54 AM ET (US)
For the keel guard 'cutwater' one only has to add another 6 ish thousand to the total..... one of my few regrets :>(
Louie

lhg posted 01-11-2001 01:45 PM ET (US)
Can anybody determine the brand of the engines shown on the Coast Guard 25 Outrage Raider in dgp's link? Looks like all markings have been removed.
hauptjm posted 01-11-2001 01:59 PM ET (US)
Larry,
I'd have to say OMC. I blew up the photo to 400% and it sure looks like the OMC cover. I've been looking at mine for some time, so I think I've got a feel for it. But, I couldn't bet the Ranch on it.
DIVE 1 posted 01-11-2001 05:07 PM ET (US)
Most of the government contracts have been with OMC. Contract pricing is usually about 48% off of list price. As far as I know, no other manufacturer has come close to this deal for government contracts. Every military Whaler I have seen has had OMCs hanging on the transom. Most of the Whalers destined for combat operations have had gray colored outboards to match the hull color. No decals on the covers.
DIVE 1 posted 01-11-2001 05:11 PM ET (US)
I just looked at the photo again and the photo is the 25" Guardian that replaced the 22' Raiders. The boats are equipped with twin RH 175 OMC Ficht outboards. The boats are assigned to the USCG Port Security Units.
lhg posted 01-11-2001 06:06 PM ET (US)
I would have assumed that with Mercury owning
Boston Whaler, they might have been insisting that the boats go out with Mercs. Now with OMC's problems, we'll have to see what the Navy starts using.
lhg posted 03-04-2001 06:26 PM ET (US)
As an addendum to the current Cetacea page 35 on Dive 1's beautiful restoration job, and to see what the CPD Raiders looked like in original form, see dgp's above link. These boats went out in 1998, and evidently the Coast Guard decided to move up to the 25, which is shown.
Dick posted 03-04-2001 07:45 PM ET (US)
We had two of the Coast Guards 25s in the shop last year for some warrenty work. Awsome looking boats, no markings on the engines but they were big OMCs The custom trailers under them looked like they would stand up to anything.
hardensheetmetal posted 03-04-2001 11:03 PM ET (US)
Just by coincidence, Discovery Channel ran the show on Navy SEALs that started this thread again Friday night. The 22 Whalers shown were awesome as were the jet propelled RIBs.
Dan
hauptjm posted 03-05-2001 02:00 PM ET (US)
Does anyone know the name of the show that appeared on the Discovery Channel? I seem to miss it every time it's on. If I knew the name, I might be able to track it down somehow. Thanks.
hardensheetmetal posted 03-05-2001 03:20 PM ET (US)
Discovery Channel has a series called 'On the Inside', this one was 'Inside - Navy SEALs' if you go to Discovery.com they might have a listing.
Dan
newportguy posted 03-06-2001 10:21 PM ET (US)
The boat you are referring to was called the Ramo Raider....It was designed by whaler with a "skate ring" that wuld allow 50 calibre machine guns and grenade launchers to roate 360 degrees around the gunales...I actually have a video of them here somewhere that I copied from a whaler dealer...
dchris2 posted 03-06-2001 11:21 PM ET (US)
despite the excitement. it ain't armor. I'd hate to get shot at
Maerd posted 03-07-2001 10:13 AM ET (US)
There are Navy Seals videos for bid on Ebay. I used navy seals video -sheen for search argument and you may find something at discoverychannel.com
lhg posted 06-18-2001 02:48 PM ET (US)
For persons looking for Whaler Wallpaper, see DGP's link above.
lhg posted 09-18-2001 07:56 PM ET (US)
Evidently someone here saw one of these Coast Guard 25' Whalers in NYC harbor this weekend.
I believe they bought 60 of them.
Delta Six posted 11-23-2011 01:00 AM ET (US)
I am the former Boat Captain of one of the boats you saw in the film. You guys are a little bit right and a little bit wrong. They are not Ramo Raiders. They are 25' Guardians with Johnson Commercial 155's. There is no armor on a PBL (Patrol Boat, Light). The Boat Operators are not SEALs. They are Special Boatmen. In this case, Special Boat Unit Twenty-Six (SBU-26). For more pics, feel free to visit warboats.org and go to the Units Page and click on SBU-26. You will also be able to view Swift Boats, PBRs, MkIII and IV PB's as well as Ramo Raiders.
TC posted 11-24-2011 01:54 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the update, and thank you for your service.
Tom W Clark posted 11-26-2011 10:53 AM ET (US)
http://warboats.org/SBU26.htm
Delta Six posted 12-05-2011 02:02 PM ET (US)
Yeah, I found this sight 10 years too late! It is interesting to note, that at SBU-26, we received new Whalers every year when we started up a new operational cycle. After 9 months use, as tough as Whaler's are, We trashed them. At that time, The Navy nor SOCOM paid for the new boats. The DEA did. After we left Panama,SBU-26and the Reserve unit, SBU-22 out of New Orleans merged and formed what is now Special Boat team or SBT-22. Since DEA money was no longer a factor, NAVSPECWAR developed what is called the SOC-R, Special Operations Craft- Riverine. It is far more durable than a Whaler and is powered by waterjet. If not for the Whaler, Riverine Warfare might still consist of PBR's still and Mini Armored Troop Carriers. Those craft, as well a 22 ft Whalers, make up a large portion of the Colombian Riverine Forces operated by thier Marine Corps.

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Author	Topic: Navy Seals using Whalers
Mark Gallagher	posted 11-21-2000 08:13 PM ET (US) I was watching the Discovery channel a few nights ago. The program was about Navy Seals and their training, tactics, etc. I was impressed to see them on a training drill in South America using OD green Whalers that were HEAVILY armed and had tons of equipment on them including armored center consoles, radar, machine guns, etc. If anyone gets a chance to see the program again it's very intersting not to mention the other parts about the Seals themselves. The boats used were no doubt custom commercial units but they appeared to be about 22 foot outrage/classic hulls. Mark
Sam Collins	posted 11-21-2000 08:30 PM ET (US) I to saw the same show. Now if we could just get behind the wheel....
tspring	posted 11-21-2000 08:36 PM ET (US) hey i think i saw the same show too
frank	posted 11-22-2000 12:17 AM ET (US) mark- you are absolutely correct. they are the whaler guardian commercial line. did you notice the stainless keel guard? i'm proud to say i have one myself 18.6 ft. . (no keel guard) it was a former police boat. the hull is based on the outrage , but to the best of my knowledge is beefed up quite a bit. the hull is supposed to have extra glass in the high wear areas. and the hardware looks like it would be suitable for carrier duty. mr. fisher wasn't playing when he put these vessels together. they can be configured to various duties . most fire and police depts. use guardians because they are without exception - the toughest boats afloat , and are built to last. i'm not sure what length the seals use but they do appear to be 18' to 20'. i'm looking to replace mine with a smaller one . it is just to big-heavy for my needs. my chevy with an auto 350 p.u. pulls the package well enough, but recently i pulled my buddies 18 trophy in for repairs when his tow vehicle was in the shop and i could bearly tell it was hooked up. the guardians are heavy. if anyone knows what the weight difference is between a (classic) outrage 18 and a guardian 18 please let me know. thanks-
Louie Kokinis	posted 11-22-2000 12:43 AM ET (US) Frank, its only a few hundred pounds more than the rec version. I tow my 22 Guardian with the same pickup I used for my 22 Outrage - I havn't noticed any difference. Louie
eric_from_MD	posted 11-22-2000 03:12 PM ET (US) Frank- The weight diff. is 500 lbs. I believe it's in the hull and backing material combined. I am currently trying to get mine in shape for the spring. I now have the floor up and the gas tank out. The specs of the current 19 guardian matches ours. Can't wait to get it running, I found a leftover (new) 98 150 salwater series yamaha to hang on her. Eric
frank	posted 11-23-2000 12:06 AM ET (US) eric- i have basically the same setup the yamaha 150 is a very strong runner. mine is a 1994 and it really moves the boat. i get close to 50 mph on ultra smooth water ( 48 indicated g.p.s.). so you can expect at least that. now that you have the floorboards off your guardian, do you notice any thing different from an outrage ? i heard that the guardians have some sort of stringer system supporting the fuel tank.
dgp	posted 11-23-2000 05:22 AM ET (US) For a great CG action photo see www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ships/boats/coastguard/cg-foal2k.jpg
eric_from_MD	posted 11-23-2000 11:24 PM ET (US) Frank- I have never seen under a outrage, but from what I have heard from hear and other sites they are the same as far as the naked eye can see. There may be stringers behind the glass tub that the tank sits in. The tank is 8' 7" long and about a foot deep down the center (v shaped), it sits in a fiberglass tub with thin rubber under it and foam poured around to hold it in place. There are 3 alm. bands with rubber under them that bolt/screw into the hull to hold the tank down. along side the tank tub is the control trough (sp) 4-6" wide and several inches deep...thats it. The interesting thing is that any water that gets into the tank tub can never totally get out which leads to the corrosion/leaks. Getting on plane should allow most out the rear sump but some water once in there looks like it would always stay. I only had a couple gallons at most and all 5 access plates were of this hull for I don't know how long. I think the water has a hard time passing thru the foam that is surrounding the tank. Eric
frank	posted 11-23-2000 11:38 PM ET (US) i didn't realize the tank was over 8.5 feet long . i knew it had to be big - it holds 60 gallons. i have also heard that the area around the tank will hold some water, i guess no design is flawless . let me know how your project comes along. good luck >frank
jimh	posted 11-25-2000 06:00 AM ET (US) The Discovery Channel must have re-run that show last night, as I saw a segment about Navy Seal training with small boats. The boats were classic Whaler hulls, and they really looked great screaming up and down that jungle river. I couldn't tell what the length was, but it looked bigger than 22-feet.
lhg	posted 11-28-2000 07:16 PM ET (US) The very cool Whaler shown in dgp's link must be one of the 60 25' Raiders (Guardians in gunboat form) that the CG ordered about 3 years ago. A BW exec told me at the time that each boat package was ordered complete with HD trailer and twin 200 engines, for air shipment to trouble spots for harbor patrol, to prevent incidents like just happened to the USS COLE. Similar 22's were deployed to the Persian Gulf in 1991. It's interesting to note that by 1997, when these boats were purchased, BW had other new hull models to choose from, but the Classic 25 was still chosen by the military. I haven't seen the Seals program, but those boats could also be similar 25 Raiders.
QBrennan	posted 11-29-2000 03:31 PM ET (US) I saw the same show while on vacation quickly called two of my Whaler buddies who were on each side of the country and they were watching at the same show. Great minds think alike. I love that keel gaurd. Wow, to have that reckless abandon for your boat. I don't know, there are sometimes when I don't even let my wife on board!
lhg	posted 11-29-2000 03:57 PM ET (US) The BW Commercial Products Keel Guard is a very heavy duty item. It is not simply screwed on from the outside, like one would expect, but rather must be pre-ordered before the hull is built. It has continuous studs which are moulded right into the layup, with the effect that the hull is actually built around the keel guard component. I'll bet it's a big extra.
Louie Kokinis	posted 11-30-2000 01:54 AM ET (US) For the keel guard 'cutwater' one only has to add another 6 ish thousand to the total..... one of my few regrets :>( Louie
lhg	posted 01-11-2001 01:45 PM ET (US) Can anybody determine the brand of the engines shown on the Coast Guard 25 Outrage Raider in dgp's link? Looks like all markings have been removed.
hauptjm	posted 01-11-2001 01:59 PM ET (US) Larry, I'd have to say OMC. I blew up the photo to 400% and it sure looks like the OMC cover. I've been looking at mine for some time, so I think I've got a feel for it. But, I couldn't bet the Ranch on it.
DIVE 1	posted 01-11-2001 05:07 PM ET (US) Most of the government contracts have been with OMC. Contract pricing is usually about 48% off of list price. As far as I know, no other manufacturer has come close to this deal for government contracts. Every military Whaler I have seen has had OMCs hanging on the transom. Most of the Whalers destined for combat operations have had gray colored outboards to match the hull color. No decals on the covers.
DIVE 1	posted 01-11-2001 05:11 PM ET (US) I just looked at the photo again and the photo is the 25" Guardian that replaced the 22' Raiders. The boats are equipped with twin RH 175 OMC Ficht outboards. The boats are assigned to the USCG Port Security Units.
lhg	posted 01-11-2001 06:06 PM ET (US) I would have assumed that with Mercury owning Boston Whaler, they might have been insisting that the boats go out with Mercs. Now with OMC's problems, we'll have to see what the Navy starts using.
lhg	posted 03-04-2001 06:26 PM ET (US) As an addendum to the current Cetacea page 35 on Dive 1's beautiful restoration job, and to see what the CPD Raiders looked like in original form, see dgp's above link. These boats went out in 1998, and evidently the Coast Guard decided to move up to the 25, which is shown.
Dick	posted 03-04-2001 07:45 PM ET (US) We had two of the Coast Guards 25s in the shop last year for some warrenty work. Awsome looking boats, no markings on the engines but they were big OMCs The custom trailers under them looked like they would stand up to anything.
hardensheetmetal	posted 03-04-2001 11:03 PM ET (US) Just by coincidence, Discovery Channel ran the show on Navy SEALs that started this thread again Friday night. The 22 Whalers shown were awesome as were the jet propelled RIBs. Dan
hauptjm	posted 03-05-2001 02:00 PM ET (US) Does anyone know the name of the show that appeared on the Discovery Channel? I seem to miss it every time it's on. If I knew the name, I might be able to track it down somehow. Thanks.
hardensheetmetal	posted 03-05-2001 03:20 PM ET (US) Discovery Channel has a series called 'On the Inside', this one was 'Inside - Navy SEALs' if you go to Discovery.com they might have a listing. Dan
newportguy	posted 03-06-2001 10:21 PM ET (US) The boat you are referring to was called the Ramo Raider....It was designed by whaler with a "skate ring" that wuld allow 50 calibre machine guns and grenade launchers to roate 360 degrees around the gunales...I actually have a video of them here somewhere that I copied from a whaler dealer...
dchris2	posted 03-06-2001 11:21 PM ET (US) despite the excitement. it ain't armor. I'd hate to get shot at
Maerd	posted 03-07-2001 10:13 AM ET (US) There are Navy Seals videos for bid on Ebay. I used navy seals video -sheen for search argument and you may find something at discoverychannel.com
lhg	posted 06-18-2001 02:48 PM ET (US) For persons looking for Whaler Wallpaper, see DGP's link above.
lhg	posted 09-18-2001 07:56 PM ET (US) Evidently someone here saw one of these Coast Guard 25' Whalers in NYC harbor this weekend. I believe they bought 60 of them.
Delta Six	posted 11-23-2011 01:00 AM ET (US) I am the former Boat Captain of one of the boats you saw in the film. You guys are a little bit right and a little bit wrong. They are not Ramo Raiders. They are 25' Guardians with Johnson Commercial 155's. There is no armor on a PBL (Patrol Boat, Light). The Boat Operators are not SEALs. They are Special Boatmen. In this case, Special Boat Unit Twenty-Six (SBU-26). For more pics, feel free to visit warboats.org and go to the Units Page and click on SBU-26. You will also be able to view Swift Boats, PBRs, MkIII and IV PB's as well as Ramo Raiders.
TC	posted 11-24-2011 01:54 PM ET (US) Thanks for the update, and thank you for your service.
Tom W Clark	posted 11-26-2011 10:53 AM ET (US) http://warboats.org/SBU26.htm
Delta Six	posted 12-05-2011 02:02 PM ET (US) Yeah, I found this sight 10 years too late! It is interesting to note, that at SBU-26, we received new Whalers every year when we started up a new operational cycle. After 9 months use, as tough as Whaler's are, We trashed them. At that time, The Navy nor SOCOM paid for the new boats. The DEA did. After we left Panama,SBU-26and the Reserve unit, SBU-22 out of New Orleans merged and formed what is now Special Boat team or SBT-22. Since DEA money was no longer a factor, NAVSPECWAR developed what is called the SOC-R, Special Operations Craft- Riverine. It is far more durable than a Whaler and is powered by waterjet. If not for the Whaler, Riverine Warfare might still consist of PBR's still and Mini Armored Troop Carriers. Those craft, as well a 22 ft Whalers, make up a large portion of the Colombian Riverine Forces operated by thier Marine Corps.