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Classic Whaler's Association - is it dead???
|Author||Topic: Classic Whaler's Association - is it dead???|
posted 01-19-2001 10:41 AM ET (US)
I signed up for the Classic Whalter News newsletter and all back issues at http://www5.icat.com/store/classicwhaler
1) anyone know if these guys exist anymore?
2) if not, where can I get some back issues of that publication?
(I own a "first-year-made" 1961 16.8 footer. Looking for ANY info for
Also, if the Classic Whaler's Association is truly gone, I am interested, as a web developer, in picking up the gauntlet. Anyone know whom I could contact?
Thanks for a great forum!
Nigel (remove "withnospam" from email address)
posted 01-19-2001 12:55 PM ET (US)
I wonder the same thing. I paid with a credit card for my membership a few months ago and haven't heard anything. I was looking forward to receiving the newsletters. Rex
posted 01-19-2001 01:30 PM ET (US)
I was a member some time back (2-3 yrs. ago) but didn't renew since the newsletter came less frequently each year. By the time I let my membership lapse, I think I was only getting about 2 issues per year.
I believe the gentleman who ran it did it on the side and couldn't find the time to keep it going as regularly as before. It did provide great information.
posted 01-19-2001 01:55 PM ET (US)
I would join too.
posted 01-19-2001 05:58 PM ET (US)
I am in if someone takes over the reigns and does it right! Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 01-19-2001 06:25 PM ET (US)
About a year ago, I ordered and received all of the back issues, from inception to then. Good reading and quite a bunch of pictures. I forget how many issues, but the pile is about 1-1/2 inches thick as I recall. Paid $45.00. Anyone interested in buying the entire set?
posted 01-19-2001 07:50 PM ET (US)
Exactly what is it that everyone wants to pay for?
What is the "gauntlet" that Nigel wants to "pick up"?
posted 01-19-2001 10:17 PM ET (US)
Jim Knight is the guy who is running the Classic Whaler Association. He can be reached at:
I too renewed but have yet to see anymore news letters. It was a great newsletter with lots of good pictures and neat articles.
posted 01-19-2001 10:54 PM ET (US)
I thought this place was Theclassic whaler association.
posted 01-20-2001 07:28 AM ET (US)
As mentioned by a few post the Classic Whaler Association is pretty much a one man band --- Jim Knight can only work on it in his spare time and it is the only organization that has "quasi" recognition by Boston Whaler.
This site/forum is not part of the C W Association --- though Jim Knight in one issue last year gave it mention and link ---
The best method of contact is call Jim Knight and leave a message if unavailable --- he usually returns calls --- some reason email just doesn't get processed --- phone # 919-639-3089 and another email address is firstname.lastname@example.org
We were in correspondence last Spring and he was kind to offer us any assistance we might need as we traveled up the ICW through his sections of NC --- even supplied his fishing buddy's phone if we couldn't get him --- thankfully it wasn't necessary ---
He is/was trying to set up regional C W Associations and is/was looking for folks that might be interested --- the prime reason to try and organize Whaler rendezvous on a regional area basis each year --- haven't a clue if he has been successful --- though the C W Association has roughly 3000 members.
Anyway it is still alive as far as I know --- just keep trying ----
posted 01-20-2001 07:58 AM ET (US)
Nigel --- I don't think -- could be wrong-- that Jim Knight is looking to expand the association's web presence ---
The "store" is more or less a "can" package deal --- (most folks order by sending in their money direct for whatever) --- it has never worked well/properly from what I can determine --- maybe just an info site might be nice -- just to answer questions like your asking here ----
The other issue as far as web based is the presence of a forum such as this one --- it's frowned on both by BW dealers (should say some not all) and BW management --- even though this forum has tried to balance out the old and new, BW would rather not have one --- yet the rest of this site is very well received for all the information provided on the "classics" by them --- go figure --
posted 01-20-2001 10:19 AM ET (US)
I am trying to figure this out. People seem to like continuouswave's Classic Whaler and it forum. Let's see... here is what you get:
--active, on-line discussion forum with over 8,000 messages archived
All of this costs you...[free]
Now, the newsletter:
You send money and you get a newsletter. I am not sure how many pages and how often you get it or how much it costs. In fact, I've never seen the newsletter. But judging from the comments here and from the number of e-mails I get asking about, there must be something about the process that is not working quite right. Yet, everyone seems to committed to this model: send money, get newsletter.
Then alongs comes Nigel and says he is willing to "pick up the gauntlet".
Can someone explain exactly what it is that is missing from either of the above situations (the free website and the paid subscription newsletter) that remains to be picked up?
I am actually serious here. People are telling Nigel to "go for it" and they'll join.
Go for what? Join what?
If there is some pent up demand for something else could someone please let me in on it.
posted 01-20-2001 11:39 AM ET (US)
Having never read the news letters mentioned above, I can't comment on the value of what ever was offered there. I am surprised however, that people will send in $25, get no response, and not feel cheated.
Regardless of the name, I think this isthe classic whaler's association.
Would people appreciate the value of this site more if they had to pay for it? --Brian
posted 01-20-2001 12:32 PM ET (US)
Shadow -- Jim Knight never charges your credit card if you order online until the item or subscription is shipped ---
The news letter has some fine content though limited and recently the frequency of issues has been to say the least few and far between --- ( the Associations first Newsletter was published in July of 1993 with the intent of 3 issues per year --- and for the most part it has been just that)
In this respect no one is getting "cheated"
Nigel choose the wrong term when he said "gauntlet" since no one to my knowledge offered any challenge --- Nigel may just want to help with his skills, if Jim Knight would want the help --- refer to my post above to Nigel -- as I said I don't believe Jim Knight wants to expand his presence on the web --- could be wrong just my feeling ---
This is not the Classic Whaler Association --- one might better call it the Classic Whaler Community because that's how it was and has developed ---- by the Webmaster
I feel this community is an absolute first class place to visit and communicate, on the other hand the CW Association is a fine place to join and receive additional information --- no such thing as an all encompassing source ---- Tom
posted 01-20-2001 12:40 PM ET (US)
Brian hit the nail on the head, so far as I am concerned: this is the Classic Whalers Association in my world. I've not seen the referenced publication, and I neither have had nor do have any interest in tracking it down. I get what I need here.
It would seem ironic, but maybe Brian is also right about the appeal of the newsletter, that is "I have to pay for it, therefore it must have more value than something I don't have to pay for".
I'd happily pay money for what you provide here, if that would make others feel better about what they're getting, but I am even happier to continue in my attempts to "pay" for access by contributing content when I can (and even sometimes when I probably shouldn't).
That's my story and I'm sticking to it-
posted 01-20-2001 12:51 PM ET (US)
I am a member of the Classic Whaler Association, and love the newsletter for info, products, and different views and classifides section. I to am not happy with the frequency of the newsletter, and will probably not rejoin unless they become more frequent, not worth $25 at 3 issues per year. Jim, you`re site is 100 times better than that newsletter, I think most members would agree, but we just love infinate Whaler variety, so don`t be offended if we would like a Whaler newsletter with a variety of content. Personally, I eat, sleep, breath, and live for Classic Whalers and anything Classic Whaler. Long live Classic Whaler Forum and Jim H. Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 01-20-2001 01:13 PM ET (US)
Part of what we are seeing here is the transition from printed communication to electronic.
A printed news letter is much more expensive and time consuming to produce and deliver per copy than on line content.
On the other hand, there is much to be said for printed material that you can hold in your hand, save, and not require at $1000 computer and monthly connection charge to view.
One of the obstacles to making paid internet content work is creating an internet 'currency' so one can charge a tiny fee per page view or what ever.
How would ONE CENT per page view be? If this site had a million page views (im still confused about hit v page views), it would generate $10,000. I'm sure it's still peanuts to the amaount of time Jimh puts in on this site, but it would at least cover his expenses.
posted 01-20-2001 01:41 PM ET (US)
Holly mackerel --- first off the subscription is $15 annually --- no big deal if you do get the 3 issues as subscribed --- and CWOA has been around since 1993 ----
Let's try and put things in perspective shall we --- if the Webmaster wouldn't have commented on Nigels post this as with the rest of previous post on the CWOA would have just found it's way to the achieves ---
As you can see by my posts above I am not advocating joining CWOA, instead answering questions or at least attempting to as they were put forth --- I don't think this original post by Nigel was to spark off some kind of "patriotic" well "I am for you or I'm for them" do-dah discussion ---
I also pointed out that from what this sites Webmaster has explained, he looks at it and designs it with the "community" concept in mind --- believe he has so stated this fact on a couple of occasions ---
Anyway I think the fellows who ask questions about the CWOA have been answered --- maybe if someone wants to start a new thread --- of "them vs. us" crap fine, no such situation exist --- at least as far as I can determine --- little to much sensitivity showing up me thinks ----
Tom --- (I believe most all know my support of this site)
posted 01-20-2001 02:43 PM ET (US)
My point is this: How do we, as a community, support this site financially? Your effort with the Jimh recognition award was excellent, but how do we support Jim's work and expenses on an ongoing basis? Sure, being a frequent contributor of quality information is support, but I'm willing to pay a fee also.
posted 01-20-2001 03:04 PM ET (US)
My thoughts on this subject...
With the exception of the restoration products and wearables this Whaler Forum provides much more information that the Classic Whaler Newsletter ever did, and with the OEM section we have access to those products and others also. We can get almost instant response to problems and have a place to showoff our boats and tell tales of our trips. All this without waiting for months for the Newsletter to arrive, if at all.
Jim...fear not, the value you provide is not easy to state.
I wonder if we could contact selected suppliers, those the most willing to help. Designate them "Official Suppliers to the Whaler Forum" and work them for a little discount.
I would buy several shirts.
How many users are there. Weekly, Monthly??
My support and respect.
posted 01-20-2001 03:18 PM ET (US)
Maybe there is a cross-over opportunity there. I would guess many people who receive the newsletter aren't on line and many of us don't get the news letter.
It's just a thought, Jim, perhaps there is an opportunity to work with the publisher of Classic Whaler News Letter to provide him content from ContinuousWave Classic Whaler. I can see some real synergy there plus expanded reach for both publications. Kind of a "bricks & clicks" deal, cross marketing, what ever.
posted 01-20-2001 03:22 PM ET (US)
Question --- has the Webmaster asked for financial support?
If he does ask then I believe it will be forth coming --- Tom
posted 01-20-2001 03:28 PM ET (US)
Brian your suggestion has been posted a couple times before with our Webmaster not responding --- so whether he has had discussions with Jim Knight only he knows --- yes it might prove to be benifical --- then too --- because of this forum and the CWOA quasi association with BW it may not --- just my thoughts --- Tom
PS must have crossed posts---
posted 01-20-2001 03:32 PM ET (US)
The PBS style semi-annual fundraiser would be one option. It is also simple to do.
posted 01-20-2001 03:49 PM ET (US)
Tom, yes are replies are crossing. I get the impression that talking about Classic Whaler's Association on continuous wave is akin to talking about other women in front of one's wife.
Jim, did once mention fees as opposed to advertising in ways to support a website during an broad discussion via email. So I'll leave it at that. It is up to Jim, but put me down for the fee method if it comes up.
posted 01-20-2001 11:19 PM ET (US)
Jim, this forum is what was missing from the Classic Whaler's Association. I found your web page in the CWOA's last newsletter. I think you have the community here that the CWOA was trying to pull together. The CWOA newsletter offered neat articles, pictures, history and a good tech section. Basically, there is nothing in that newsletter that cannot be found here. It is sort of like questioning why someone would buy a newspaper when they can find the news at www.yahoonews.com. I have found that I get answers and info much faster through www.continuouswave.com and I thank Jim Knight for pointing me in this direction. I am not sure what CWOA really offers other than the fact that I can say I am a member of a "Boston Whaler affiliated club"....and of course those cool T-shirts.
posted 01-20-2001 11:28 PM ET (US)
I have been a "member" of the classic whaler association for a couple of years now. I'd have to say I have really enjoyed the magazine and I keep the copies that have actually made it here in the "reading room." There is something to be said for paper... You can take it anywhere. Since I don't have a computer in the reading room, thats real convenient. I'd also like to say that I found out about continuous wave from that publication so I wouldn't exactly see you guys as competitors. He was willing to publish your link.
The info in this site is by far more informative and interactive than the classic whaler magazine. But like I said - there is something to be said for paper. Have you ever considered taking this one-step-further? How bout a newsletter? I'd be willing to bet that everyone that visits this site everyday (myself included)would be willing to pay you $25 a year for three issues. I'd also like to see a link to buy whaler-wear or accessories. Right now the only way I can get those items is visit the closest whaler dealer - (2 hrs away).
You've put alot of work into this site and its awsome. If the truth be known, I probably log-in 2-3 times a day.
There is nothing wrong with cashing in on all that hard work. I'd keep the site free but offer some extras - news letter or shopping area. Just a thought
posted 01-21-2001 01:33 PM ET (US)
Wow! I never expected to get so much information from a simple query. But thanks to all of you.
Also, I apologize to Jim, I certainly did not mean to suggest I would "compete" with you or denigrate the wonderful and invaluable site you have created. However, I do wish to respond briefly to a few points raised. Here is my view - with which you may choose to differ.
Forums, by there nature, are wonderful collaborative bodies where one can find comraderie and a good deal of free and quick advice when needed. The reading is always enjoyable. However, what's needed in addition, from my perspective, is more of an archive of information - which is quite a different animal. If I am looking to rebuild my center console to original specs, it would be nice to go to a site, type in a keyword phrase to search or be able to browse a library of archived articles. Additionally, while many postings here are dead-on accurate, I think we can all agree that at times opinions can be enthusiastically presented as "facts". Colorful and enjoyable as the ensuing debates are, I would like to feel that I can count on a definitive knowledge-base for final answers. This is probably too much to hope for (even "published" information can be wrong) but it is what I would like to have available. Jim, I also operate several "free" web sites and know how much work is involved. I applaud your efforts to create an archival articles area, but I respectfully suggest that it could contain even more content.
For instance, imagine if all the back issues of the CWOA Newsletter were available online! That's the info I'm willing to buy. As WhalerNut pointed out very well "we just love infinate Whaler variety, so don`t be offended if we would like a Whaler newsletter with a variety of content. Personally, I eat, sleep, breath, and live for Classic Whalers and anything Classic Whaler." That's my point - I just want more information!
(Specifically, by the way, I would love to see any brochures/specs for the '61 models. Any one got any scans or other sources?)
Anyway, I will try to contact Jim Knight by phone and email - thanks all for the contact info. I certainly am not interested in competing with his vision either and I also respect him for the work he has done to date. And Dave Reid, I'll be in touch about those back issues...
Thanks, JimH, for a great job!
posted 01-21-2001 02:40 PM ET (US)
Let me extend my remarks:
Re: the newsletter--I am not trying to either boost or detract from the newsletter. It does rankle me a bit when people use my site to steer people to the newsletter and sending someone else money, however. But I don't edit out posts like that, although I have thought about it for a few minutes. As someone said, it is like discussing other women in front of your wife....
Re: charging people for access--the current model of payment on the "web" is banner advertising, and most visionaries think this will ultimately fail. The eventual model for payment must be some sort of user-based fee system, but, as someone mentioned, there is not a good mechanism in place to "pay-as-you-go". At the moment the out-of-pocket costs to me to provide this service are not unbearable, but I expect they will be increasing as traffic increases, and there will come a point at which I must find some stream of revenue to pay for the costs. When that time comes I'll let you know.
Re: better access to the content on this site--I am working on this. At the moment I am working more on the underpinnings of a new site design--how content will be stored, delivered, etc.--than on developing new content. So please enjoy what is here, accept the limitations, and stay tuned.
Despite complaints, I still think in general the site is pretty well designed and laid out, and most things can be located if you stop and take the time to become familiar with the layout. For someone who stumbles into the forum for the first time, it may not be clear that there are hundreds of other pages of material available in a fairly well organized system.
When this Whaler section of this site was begun it was not anticipated that the interest would be this great and the response so enthusiastic. Now that the size of the audience is clear, the effort and sophistication of the site can be adjusted to match.
I appreciate all the positive commments, and they fuel my efforts to make improvements. The more critical comments are heard, too, and I hope to be able to fix some of the problems (which mainly seem to be related to lack of search tools) in the near future.
posted 01-21-2001 03:58 PM ET (US)
Jim, I love this site because of the content, very easy to use, and very easy to read(easy on the eyes). More content would be nice(that will come eventually) but as it is now you`re web site has more Whaler stuff than I would have ever imagined at one site. I feel Richard Fisher right now is very proud of you and of all of us for keeping the Classic Whaler spirit alive! Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 01-21-2001 05:59 PM ET (US)
I wasn't trying to steer anyone anywhere else. Just trying to get information. Please excuse any insensitivity to any issues you may bear.
Glad you don't censor! Hopefully positive criticism and open sharing of information will always be welcome. Thanks for a great site and keep up the good work.
posted 01-21-2001 06:05 PM ET (US)
By the way, I've been an avid and regular visitor to your site for quite some time. I have never contributed since I don't feel I have that much to add to the expertise already here. I'm just a guy with questions. :-]
posted 01-21-2001 06:39 PM ET (US)
Nigel, Jim will censor if he deems necessary, only has been done a few times for a few different reasons, be it good or bad, it`s Jim`s site! Regards-Jack Graner.
posted 01-22-2001 11:21 PM ET (US)
Besides, we need this site because it now appears that it is the only place to find information pertaining to Classic Whalers. The email address I posted a few responses back is dead so I have to assume the CWOA is dead there. But, obviously it is alive and kicking here.
Jim, I apologize for posting the other Jim's email here. I assumed that both you and he were acknowledged by Boston Whaler. I wonder if we could get Boston Whaler to start referring people to this forum when they have questions about their older boats? That was how I stumbled into the CWOA in the first place.
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