Forum: WHALER
  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  GPS Chartplotters

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   GPS Chartplotters
LarrySherman posted 01-24-2001 04:53 PM ET (US)   Profile for LarrySherman   Send Email to LarrySherman  
Hi,

I'm looking for a decent GPS Chartplotter, and would really like some input on the decision. I know lhg has the Lowrance 2000, but when I called Lowrance, they said it was discontinued. They have the 1600 and LCX-15 series avail, but I don't know much about them.

Garmin has the 180 and 230 plotters, but no sonar. Garmin seems to lock you into thier cartriges as well.

Any thoughts?

Wild Turkey posted 01-24-2001 05:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for Wild Turkey  Send Email to Wild Turkey     
I have the Garmin 168 GPS/chartplotter/sounder combo unit. It works great. Got rid of my old separate loran and sounder units.
triblet posted 01-24-2001 05:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The Garmin 180 and 230 are yesterday's news.
The latest Garmin chartplotter is the 162.
You are still locked into Garmin for
cartography, but it downloads from a CD
on your PC and is a lot less expensive.
I've got a 162 and like it. Interestingly,
for my purposes, the topographic cartography
is more useful than the marine cartography
which seems to have been rushed out the door.

Garmin does have sonar. Three combined GPS
and sonar units, five sonar only.

Most of the chartplotters from any maker lock
you into a single source for cartography.

You need to do your homework. The
manufacturers all have good websites. There
are links to most of them at the bottom of
http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/swell/gps.html

Chuck

dgp posted 01-24-2001 05:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Larry, I've been researching this same subject and while I haven't bought anything yet, here's what I've found:
The new Lowrance XT-15, both color (CT) and monochrome (MT) displays, are basically premium fishfinder/sonar units that can be upgraded to GPS Chartplotters by adding the GPS Mapping Accessories Pack. While normally I prefer a monochrome display I preferred the color display on these units. The side viewing angle was better also on the CT. The downside to both of these units are there high cost; $680 for the MT sonar only unit and $1100 for the CT sonar only. GPS Mapping pack adds another $290.
Take a look at the new Raytheon 330 WAAS GPS Chartplotter; it was BEST rated by Powerboat Reports. Don
Ed Stone posted 01-24-2001 09:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Hey Larry,
I've just started using the Garmin 168.
It is a GPS chartplotter/sonar.Like Chuck
said you can download detailed information
from a cd.I'm amazed at how accurate the
channel markers popped up when I downloaded
waterways.I purchased the optional flush
mount kit that also has a quick release
that enables you to remove it in seconds.
I have downloaded the complete state of Fl.
Somtime in the future I am going to locate
the Spruce Creek Navy!
Ed Stone
lhg posted 01-24-2001 11:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Sonar/GPS is another one of those highly personal choices and loyalties, like outboard brands. All of the top names are good equipment. As you mentioned, Larry, mine is Lowrance, and it looks like their new large screen LCX series units could be super. Every function is contained in the unit - not separate components like the Global Map 2000 required. The 2000 is a fine unit, but a nightmare to install with the sonar, cartridge reader, and DGPS add ons. As Don said, the new monochrome screen combo unit is $1100 complete, and the color TFT screen unit is $1500 complete. ALL of Lowrance's GPS units accomodate Navionics charting (not cheap to purchase!) besides their own CD Rom uploads.

Their equivalent to the popular Garmin 162/168 units mentioned here is the LMS-160 unit, although about $100 more. This also takes Navionics charting uploaded through your PC.

Finally, for anybody looking for the latest in handheld GPS mapping, take a look at Lowrance's new "iFINDER". Small size but large screen. About $350 with detailed CD mapping. Also uses Navionics. Take a look at lowrance.com, where there is also a link to Navionics.

One other little discussed item in Sonar choice is how good the tranducer is at high speeds. I think Lowrance's little skimmer unit is tops. Reads to 60MPH with no spray and simpe to install on the transom. I like this much better than the V shaped units others use. But conversely, their large skimmer unit is very tough to install correctly, and not as good! I also like their little 3" round GPS disc.

Finally, with SA turned off, is DGPS now considered not necessary by the industry? I notice that the latest Lowrance units make no mention of being "DGPS Ready" as they used to. All this after only last year going out and spending the time and money to install this!

triblet posted 01-25-2001 12:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
For MOST things, you don't need DGPS any
more. Before SA was turned off, I used it
for nailing dive sites (our UW visibility
is 40' on a good day, and if the GPS
accuracy isn't at least that good, you may
not find the site and end up diving a lot of
sand). If the DGPS died now, I'd try things
without it.

DGPS prices are down. http://www.tvnav.com
(a good place for GPS stuff) has the Garmin
GBR 21 and GBR 23 for $180. I'd strongly
recommend the GBR 23 over the 21. The
23 has a much better antenna, and the
receiver is built into the base of the
antenna so you don't have to figure out where
to mount the receiver box.

There are starting to be a few WAAS-ready
receivers on the market. WAAS is for
aircraft navigation, but there's no reason
the rest of us can't use it. It's like
DGPS, except that the beacons are geosynch
satellites, and the frequencies are like
GPS, so very little additional hardware is
required in the receiver. Accuracy should
be about the same as DGPS. I say WAAS-ready
because all though WAAS is operational for
ConUS, these receivers have the HW but they
haven't finished (probably testing) the
microcode.

WAAS = Wide Area Augmentation System.

Chuck

LarrySherman posted 01-25-2001 11:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
What about handhelds?

Obviosuly, no sonar, but nice to transfer between boats, cars etc. I was looking at the Magellan 6000. Has anyone used it? Are the C-Map cartriges of good detail?

andygere posted 01-25-2001 04:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
I'm using a Garmin 130 which has since been replaced by the 162. This is an excellent device, and the primary difference between it and the 162 is the cartography. This unit uses the G-chart cartridge format. While these are a bit pricey ($100-$300 depending on area covered), the detail is outstanding. It includes navaids as well as land features and landmarks (eg. water tower, rock jetty etc.) I have seen these units around on E-bay and even as closeouts at some electronics stores (where mine was originally purchased about a year ago). I really like the simple, intuitive software built into the Garmin, and I find the accuracy to be excellent.
triblet posted 01-25-2001 07:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The 162 also has a higher resolution
screen and longer way point names.

Chuck

triblet posted 01-25-2001 07:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
An advantage of a handheld is that you can
take it out on your buddie's boat and steal
HIS fishin/divin/whatever spots. ;-)

Chuck

Backlash posted 01-25-2001 09:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Backlash  Send Email to Backlash     
Larry,
To comment on your question regarding whether DGPS is necessary, I think that depends on what kind of accuracy is needed. Chuck mentioned he needs 40' accuracy to hit his dive sites, but for most people I don't believe this is necessary, unless of course you're navigating a narrow channel in total darkness somewhere in the North Channel.
Apparently, accuracy can vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer: Raytheon reports accuracy of 60' without DGPS; 30' with DGPS and 3½' with WAAS. Furuno reports 3'to 6'accuracy with DGPS. Leica has recently entered the GPS arena with their MK 40 color chart plotter with an accuracy of 9'or better WITHOUT DGPS and 30" WITH DGPS! Be prepared to shell out $2,795 for this baby!
Steve
triblet posted 01-26-2001 12:04 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Part of the problem is that there are five different ways of determining the accuracy:

Four of them are: Accuracy is better than X
feet 50/90/95/99% of the time. 95% is the
most common.

The last is the RMS (root mean square) error.
Take a bunch of data points. Determine the
error of each. Square each error.
Sum them. Divide by the number of points.
Take the square root.

You never know which they are using.

The biggest influence on accuracy today is
atmospherics and receiver noise. DGPS and
WAAS can correct somewhat for atmospherics.

Raytheon claiming that WAAS is an order of
magnitude better than DGPS is HIGHLY suspect.
If they are only getting 30' from DGPS, they
have REALLY LOUSY DGPS. And DGPS and WAAS
should deliver about the same results.

WAAS and DGPS are just two different ways
of delivering the same corrections. WAAS
is better than DGPS because it delivers
info about sick birds (usually not important)
and the receiver interpolates between
the WAAS reference stations (while DGPS
assumes it's AT the one reference station
it knows about). DGPS is better because
there are more reference stations (WAAS has
25 to cover ConUS, the coastie's NDGPS network has 70).

Chuck

triblet posted 01-26-2001 12:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Backlash, I can't find those numbers on
Raytheon Marine's website. They quote:

15M RMS for vanilla GPS
2.5M 99% of the time for WAAS in one place
and 5M (didn's say how measured) in another.
They have a chart that shows DGPS a little
than twice as bad as WAAS (and I'd read WAAS
as about 4M 99% of the time).

Note: I think WAAS is going to be a really
useful thing and will be in most GPS
receivers (all but the < $150) announced
3Q01 and later.

Chuck

lhg posted 01-26-2001 01:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Steve and Chuck: Thanks for the DGPS info.
I guess my installations will be useful for a little while longer. At least I have symmetrical antennas (VHF and DGPS) on each side of the Whalers!

From what Chuck is saying, it could be that Lowrance has not incorported "DGPS Ready" in the new designs because the WAAS will soon be included instead. Marine Sonar/GPS Mapping is like buying a PC - you will only have top of the line technology and speed for about 3 months.

triblet posted 01-26-2001 09:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
From http://www.lowrance.com/outdoor/gpsguide/default.asp :

"All Lowrance GPS receivers are DGPS ready."

I suspect that the new units are DGPS ready,
and they just don't mention it as DGPS isn't
as important as it was when SA was on. They
already have the microcode done, flash memory
is dirt cheap, and they have to have the
RS-232 (NMEA) port anyway. No reason not
to have it.

Chartplotters will be interersting in a few
years. IBM Research division has demoed a
color LCD called Roentgen. 2560x2048 pixels,
16.8" diagonal. Charts displayed on it look
like paper charts, only better. $10K today.
Imagine that on a chartplotter. Or your
ThinkPad. Or a smaller version on your
Palm Pilot.

LCD production capacity appears to finally
be starting to catch up with laptop demand,
so I expect to see prices on more mundane
LCDs drop and 640x480 to be the norm in
$500 chartplotters in a couple of years.

Chuck

LarrySherman posted 01-26-2001 05:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
West Marine has the Garmin 215 for 799.00. add on a 10% discount if you buy a cartridge, and a 200.00 mail in rebait on the cartridge. Is this a good deal? the same discount applies to all of tier older products (anything that uses the g-carts).

All of thier new gear can upload charts from cd-rom.

Which way to go?

blackdog posted 01-26-2001 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I find that boatersworld.com is always cheaper. No tax and shipping is free
andygere posted 01-26-2001 06:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
The level of detail on the G-charts is much higher than the CD-downloadable cartography. What you are actually paying for is the flash memory on the chip itself (plus a tidy profit for the Garmin folks). I plunked down the $300 for the Northern California chart and I am very pleased with it. The other benefit it it is truly plug and play. Just stick the little cartridge in and turn it on. No PC cables, downloads or laptops needed. For me, it has been fantastic for navigation on tricky and unfamiliar waters (the California Delta).
triblet posted 01-26-2001 07:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Check http://www.tvnav.com too.
They seem to have good prices, and the owner
is active on the gps newsgroup and quite
knowledgeable. Be sure to factor in all
discounts, shipping, and tax.

Also, West, at least here, AND ON THEIR
WEBSITE, is have having a 10% off on all electronics, 20% on apparel (yawn) and
watersports. There's a magic coupon number
you need on their website. Sale runs today,
Saturday, and Sunday.

Chuck

Barry posted 01-26-2001 10:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barry  Send Email to Barry     
I always thought the 162 looked nice but then saw the new Standard CP 150 WAAS chartplotter. Only $399 at Boatersworld. That's only about $20 more than the 162.

[I deleted the link that was posted here for two reasons: First, the link was about 150 characters long, and having that many characters without a space screws up the line breaks for all the other messages in this thread, making them hard to read. Second, long links like that generally contain "session" information and it is often the result that trying to go to them does not produce the same response as it did for the person who initially started the "session" on that webserver. Also, this link looked like a re-direction link in that the real information was not contained at the website in the link, but merely channeled the inquiery through the other website. It would be much better to post links that lead directly to the home website of the information source, and whose length is less than 50 characters. Thanks--jimh.]

triblet posted 01-27-2001 01:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The Standard 150 is a VERY impressive set
of specs for the price. It's basically
a Garmin 215 + WAAS, for half the price.

I'd take a long hard look at it if I were
in the market right now.

Does it really exist yet? This is the first
I've heard of it, and I watch GPS pretty
closely. And it's not on the West or
Boat.US sites at all.

Nevertheless, technology marches on.

Chuck

jimh posted 01-27-2001 05:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Here in the Great Lakes the deployment of DGPS stations is fairly complete, giving good coverage.

Here is a graphic that shows the NC-Georgian Bay coverage: http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/dgps/images/slide1.jpg

triblet posted 01-27-2001 10:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
In the US, deployment of DGPS stations to cover the
saltwater coasts, Great Lakes, and
Mississippi and Mo. rivers has been complete
for a couple of years now. It is in the
process of being expanded into full coverage
of the US. Details of status are available
at http://www.navcen.uscg.mil/ADO/DgpsSelectStatus.asp

Chuck

bigz posted 01-27-2001 11:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Little food for thought this is a summation from a letter to the editor of Salt Water Sportsman Feb. 2001 issue written in response to a previous Oct. 2000 issue article entitled "Raytheon's New WAAS/GPS System most Accurate Yet" --- the writer is Commander Curt Dubay, P.E. USCG Chief, Radionavigation Division, Office of Aids to Navigation.

In brief he states that both DGPS and WAAS will over time work together to provide high levels of accuracy complementary to GPS augmentation. FAA WAAS designed towards the aviation field due to line of site restrictions of the signal and DGPS for the land based application where ground clutter could cause a WAAS signal not being received --- USCG DGPS signals are optimized to "hug the earth" and wrap around objects so in areas which are obstructed by terrain or say harbor equipment it can still be received.

It is noted that WAAS signals are also optimized but for aviation applications which are generally "above ground clutter" --- he further states as WAAS becomes fully operational it will however find increasing use in surface applications for open areas ---

So bottom line don't go rushing out today for a WAAS "ready" GPS unit and trash your old GPS equipped DGPS unit, it will be very useful for still a long time to come ----

As Chuck states if your in the market you might want to consider a WAAS ready unit, however depending on your boating areas a GPS-ready DGPS unit might be really all you need and the prices at present are way below the few GPS WAAS ready units --- like all electronics as a new technology is implemented and more manufactures enter with units prices will fall --- say that you buy from Raytheon GPS ready WAAS today "tomorrow" it will be worth 1/2 of what you paid today ---- it's a fast moving highly competitive industry

An interesting site that one might find informative --- http://waas.stanford.edu/

Tom

Backlash posted 01-27-2001 05:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Backlash  Send Email to Backlash     
Chuck,
The figures I quoted were taken from the February issue of Sport Fishing magazine, page 64:

"...despite the vastly improved accuracy of GPS and DGPS, availability and official accuracy of these systems still can't support precision takeoffs and landings by commercial aircraft. So another variation of GPS is coming.
Signals are already available to U.S. users from the new Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS), a satellite-based form of DGPS under development for the Federal Aviation Administration. A recent 21-day test of WAAS showed accuracy within 3 feet, 100% of the time. Expect scheduled upgrades for standard GPS (including signals on two new frequencies) to boost non-differential accuracy to 18 feet or better. The government has slated the addition of the first new signal for 2003, and the dual-frequency operation should be possible around 2008. They've scheduled the second signal to begin in 2005, so it should be available for general use in 2012.
The actual GPS accuracy available to fishermen and boaters remains an elusive quantity. Receiver manufacturers routinely track system accuracy with their products and report widely differing results. Raytheon reports averaging accuracy of about 60 feet with standard GPS, 30 foot accuracy with DGPS and 3½ foot accuracy with WAAS. Furuno reports 3 to 6 foot accuracy from DGPS. Leica reports the accuracy of its new MK 40 receiver as 9 feet or better with standard GPS and 30 inches with DGPS. Feedback from users indicates that DGPS delivers better overall accuracy than standard GPS with SA turned off, and that WAAS accuracy is outstanding. Raytheon's the only company shipping WAAS-capable receivers, but expect to see other manufacturers offering them very soon."

This article does not state whether Raytheon's average figures are for 90%, 95%, or 100% of the time. I agree that 30 foot accuracy with DGPS is nothing to brag about!

Steve


bigz posted 01-28-2001 06:49 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Steve -- I read the same article --

Raytheon is way out of wack if the best it can get with it's GPS enhanced DPGS receivers is 30 ft -- sounds like they want to push the WAAS ready units! That is how I read this statement

Just doesn't make any sense -- could be a misquote or brother owners of Raytheon GPS/DGPS units really got took --- which I doubt

That Leica unit looks to be dynamite -- I sent for a brochure -- not that we can afford one heh heh but prices seem to be forever falling in marine electronics so one never knows ---
Another thought is that my guess your going to see C-map gradually getting out of the old format and everything in the future will be the new CmapNT's -- ouch we have two Lowrance units both use the old CF85C-maps --- Hey though C-map is offering such a deal --- if you get a new NT reader unit from whomever they will be nice enough to trade your old 85's for NT's for a mire $99 plus shipping --- cool ------

Tom

dgp posted 01-28-2001 07:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Tom, et al, "Powerboat Reports", in their January 2001 issue, tested the a WAAS unit aginst 2 DGPS units at a known USCG coordinate and found the following accuracy:
Raytheon Raychart 320 WAAS, 5.6'
Raytheon Raychart 420 DGPS, 16.8'
Garmin GPSMap 215 DGPS, 14.2'
Don
blackdog posted 01-28-2001 06:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thanks for the sale info regarding West Marine Chuck. I finally pulled the trigger and bought the Garmin162i. . Final Price with 10% off was $341 (Delaware no Sales tax, Yea!). Then add the water ways CD and PC hook up ($60 & $49 respectively), Boaters world would have matched the price but I really like the folks at West Marine—experienced sales staff as opposed to Boaters world. You can also try out the units in the store at West Marine, which is nice. One draw back to the 162 was that you could only down load so much info. For instance the unit will not hold the chart info for the entire Chesapeake Bay. The charts also do not have depth info unlike the chip models. But over all the best choice for me and my center console application—no antenna to fiddle around with.
Very impressed by the Raytheon units, high resolution.
Now I’ll sit on my coach and play around with it and dream of warmer days…….
blackdog posted 01-28-2001 06:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thanks for the sale info regarding West Marine Chuck. I finally pulled the trigger and bought the Garmin162i. . Final Price with 10% off was $341 (Delaware no Sales tax, Yea!). Then add the water ways CD and PC hook up ($60 & $49 respectively), Boaters world would have matched the price but I really like the folks at West Marine—experienced sales staff as opposed to Boaters world. You can also try out the units in the store at West Marine, which is nice. One draw back to the 162 was that you could only down load so much info. For instance the unit will not hold the chart info for the entire Chesapeake Bay. The charts also do not have depth info unlike the chip models. But over all the best choice for me and my center console application—no antenna to fiddle around with.
Very impressed by the Raytheon units, high resolution.
Now I’ll sit on my coach and play around with it and dream of warmer days…….
blackdog posted 01-28-2001 06:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Ops, I mean couch. Super Bowl. Go Ravens!
triblet posted 01-28-2001 10:44 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Some Mapsource charts in some areas have
depth contours. None of them in MY area do
though, and most don't.

Garmin has taken a fair amount of flack about
that, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them
fix that problem.

Chuck

DIVE 1 posted 01-28-2001 10:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
Larry Sherman,
We purchased a Magellan 6000 when they first came out and it has been great. It floats, waterproof, big display for a handheld. In my opinion the C-MAP chip provides more detail than the G-MAP for our area. The drawback is the GPS/Chartplotter is $600 and the C-MAP chip is another $200.
Tom Byrum posted 01-30-2001 01:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
When I went shopping for a gps about a year ago I looked at the Garmin 162 and the Garmin 180. I liked the ability of the 162 to download info from the mapsource disk and was going to buy it until a salesman at West Marine talked me out of it. He showed me the same marina on both systems. The 162 showed much more detail as to roads and such but it only showed bouys on the water. The 180 showed 10 times the detail on the water including depths of the water. The 162 had a spot on it that said marina while the 180 showed all the boat slips in the marina and they were even numbered. Until they update the marine charts for the 162 I would choose the 180 or 230 over the systems that use the mapsource disk. I use my 180 more than I use my depthfinder for fishing to find holes and channels to fish. I do wish it was a color unit though.
blackdog posted 01-30-2001 09:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Very true about the Garmin 180. Much more detail on the chip vs the Waterways CD rom. I got a chance to play around with it last night. Bottom line chips cost more so you get what you pay for.

blackdog

triblet posted 03-07-2001 05:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Garmin released the WAAS firmware load for
the 162 and 168 yesterday. It's on their
website.

The Standard 150 is delayed again. It was
supposed to be out in early Feb., then this
week, now early April. It will be a nice
unit when it gets here.

Chuck

Orca posted 03-08-2001 01:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for Orca  Send Email to Orca     
Larry,I've owned a 6000 for a few years.I am happy with my c-maps.I bought my my chips from Blue Water Books. The florida and Michigan chips have been good.I had a problem with two chips for the East Coast,L.I.Sound and Upper Chesapeake,but they refunded with no problem.I need portable devises on my Outrage as much as possible.I have two GPS on board. A Raytheon for the autopilot and the 6000 for charts.Both have been reliable.Lesson from the bad chip experience,try them before you get there. The chip price varys with the coverage. Good Luck
LarrySherman posted 03-08-2001 08:01 AM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
I ordered the Standard Horizon 160 at the Atlantic City Boat Show last weekend. Really nice unit. Saw quite a few people also ordering the new SI-TEX as well. Can't wait to get it. Also ordered the Eclipse LE VHF, but I'm not sure I made the right desision there. ICOM?
triblet posted 03-08-2001 09:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I think the Eclipse LE is going to be a
popular radio. Good feature set at a good
price point, and submersible.

Chuck

ChrisK posted 03-11-2001 09:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for ChrisK  Send Email to ChrisK     
If you were in the market right now and needed to put a GPS chartplotter unit on your boat in the next two months, what would you do? My choices are narrowed down to the Garmin 162i and the Standard 150. I think the Lowrance 1600 has been eliminated from my choices, unless someone has a compelling reason to talk me back in to that option. I talked to a dealer here in New Orleans and they said they could not even get the 150 yet. It appears that you have to buy charts for that particular unit, but I saw an advertisement that offers a free one with purchase of the unit. I wonder, for my purposes, if it matters very much. We fish mostly the marsh and close offshore Louisiana. The Standard 150 is their first venture into the GPS world, so I hate to buy a product that is in its first model year. On the other hand, the WAAS accuracy is tempting. Another question, I would be mounting the 162i on a 19' Classic Outrage center console. Will that give the internal antenna room to get a reading or should I consider an external antenna? Any thoughts or opinions as well as user feedback on the 162 would be appreciated.
Dan posted 03-11-2001 10:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
I'm trying to make a decision on a GPS unit, too. I was going to go with a handheld unit, but the screens are very small. Then I became interested in a chartplotter because I'd like to see my location and progress on a map. I've been told that units that accept map carts show much more information.

Deciding where to place the Chartplotter is difficult. My 17 Outrage consol top doesn't have that much room. I already have a fishfinder on the right side and a compass in the center. I'd like to keep the left side clear for visibilty. I have an electronics/storage area below consol top that has a lockable dark plexi cover. If the cover had two sliding pieces then I would mount a GPS inside. Unfortunately, the cover is one piece and swings down. The only solution, I think, would be to remove the cover when underway. Any suggestions?

The two GPS chartplotters I'm currently considering are the Garmin 180 -- which would run me about $650 with a large C-chart -- with the $200 rebate (I think I heard somewhere that the 180 will soon be upgradeable to WAAS) -- or the Standard 150 -- which has WAAS and would run me $400 with a small C-chart -- I really need a large C-chart -- also I saw an ad with the web site www.standardhorizon.com, but when I try to view the site I can't find it.

triblet posted 03-11-2001 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
If you've got room for a Garmin 180 you have
room for a Garmin 162. More resolution,
smaller box, WAAS with the firmware load that
came out last week. The $162 will run $399
with external antenna plus about $80 for
cartography CD.

I track GPS pretty closely and there are no
rumors that the 180 will be upgraded to WAAS.
That's not to say it won't happen, but it's
an older unit and it's not even clear that
it CAN be upgraded.

The Standard 150 runs $399 without a chart.
There's a free small chart or $99 rebate on
a large chart deal that runs through the end
of the month. The 150 won't be available
till next month. You'll need to preorder
with someone reputable (West, say) to get
the rebate.

Standard Horizon's website is at
http://www.yaesu.com/ but has been
under construction forever (Yaesu is the
parent company).

I have the brochures for the 150/160/170.
If you have questions beyond what's in
the West or BoatUS catalog, ask and I'll
post the answer.

The 150 is going to be a nice unit. When
it gets here. Was originally supposed to be
here in January.

Chuck

Peter posted 03-11-2001 11:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Dan,

I have been using the portable 175 on my 18 Outrage for the last couple of years. It sits in the "gimble" mount accessory and is plugged into the 12v electrical system. The screen is not too small. I picked that model because there was not a lot of space on the 18's console. The obvious advantage is that I can use it on any boat.

I think the 180 is pretty much the fixed mount equivalent with a slightly larger screen. I think it would work well for your needs. If you get it, get the micro G-chart that runs from NYC to Block Island--was $250 when I bought several years ago.

While I have no doubt that the 162 is a good unit with WAAS capability and higher resolution, the problem I have found so far with the models that use Mapsource databbase is that neither the available Topo or Waterways databases are as detailed as the G-chart in a navigation chart context, at least not for LI Sound. In other words, the G-chart is closer to the typical navigation charts we rely on here than the Waterways or Topo databases. The Waterways database leaves out the depth contour info (which I like to have) and to get the depth contour of the Topo database, you have to give up some navigation aids found in the W-ways database.

A real example is that on the G-chart loaded in my 175, all of the docks in my marina are represented and now that SA has been turned off, my boat appears at the slip on my dock when the boat is at the slip on my dock! The Waterways database (at least as usable at the Garmin site) does not show the marina detail at all, nor does it show any of the channel marking bouys to the entrance to my marina (G-chart does), even at its highest detail level. Those little details can be very reassuring in low visiblity conditions.

Tom Byrum's 1/30 post in this thread seems to relate the same observations I have made.

Thus, I don't believe that the Mapsource compatible products will be replacements for the G-chart products for marine navigation cartography until such time that the Mapsource databases have equivalent navigational chart databases i.e., a combination of the Waterways, Topo and more.

Anybody looking to buy a cartographic unit should take a hard look at both types before buying and determine which suits their needs best.

Pat Smith posted 03-11-2001 05:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Pat Smith  Send Email to Pat Smith     
If you dont mind E-Bay you could get a good deal there.I just bought my Garmin GPS III Plus and a Mapsource CD for $355.00.I'd just put in the most I'd care to spend and see if I got out bided.Just my 2 cents-Pat
dfmcintyre posted 03-11-2001 07:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Chris -

RE: ANTENNA PLACEMENT

I've got a Garmin 135 combo chartplotter and sounder. Same size screen as the 175 portable. I decided on it based on size (my 21' Outrage console is the same as late model Montauks).

When I installed it, I first powered it up with the antenna uh, duct taped to the grab rail around the windshield, just to try it out. I hadn't decided on where to mount it, up forward, flush on the top of the console, maybe a fabricated mount to flush along the top of the console grab rail (didn't want to mount it above the 'rail as it would interfere with the trailering/mooring canvas).

The next time out, I turned on the unit, and noticed that the signal strength was down by, oh, about 1/2 on all the available sats.

HUH?

I checked for the antenna, and here's the kicker:

The antenna I had left inside_the_console, _on_the_floor.

I picked it up, wedged it temporarily in the space between the body of the flushmounted compass, and the front of the vertical portion of the console.

I've check and between holding it in the open, and under the console (note that it's plywood and glass construction there) and I loose about 4-6% of the signal. Canvas does not effect it.

John Flook (Kingfish) also saw the same installation, up north last summer.

In brief, I'd not get real obsessive about perfect placement.

Don

blackdog posted 03-12-2001 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I have the 162i and I also purchased the waterways CD. I am still learning how to use it slowly but surely. I have it hooked up to my computer at present. As for the reception, it picks up pretty good through the Roof & walls of my house so I would be concerned about reception on the boat.
Is there a more detailed CD available than the Waterways for the 162 & 168? The detail is not as good as the chip models. I was kind of disappointed in the CD at $59, which was on sale.

Blackdog

blackdog posted 03-12-2001 03:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
would NOT be concerned
triblet posted 03-12-2001 08:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The Topo CD has more detail than WW&L in my area. That
may not be true everywhere. The Topo CD has
depth countours in a FEW areas only. The
WW&L CD has none.

You can check out the cartography products at
http://www.garmin.com/cartography/mapSource/

I'm expecting Garmin to come out with an
improved WW&L CD with depth countours. I
don't KNOW anything, but they've taken a lot
of guff over the lack of contours, and they
are reasonably responsive to market pressure.

Chuck

Tom Byrum posted 03-12-2001 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
The word I get from people in the know on chartplotters goes like this. There are two chipmakers Navionics or Cmap. Garmin uses Navionics which is supposed to have a slight edge for navigating. Cmap is supposed to have a slight edge for fishing but it can be reversed depending on the area. Both are very similar. The Garmin cd will never have the marine info on it that the two chips have. The other thing I learned was to buy three small chips rather than one large chip as the small chips have more info. I have seen the Garmin cd and highly reccomend that you wait until you can afford a unit that uses one of the chips. The Garmin cd is not even close. I have a Garmin chip but one of my fishing buddies has a unit with a Cmap and I like the Cmap chip a little better but they are very similar.
triblet posted 03-13-2001 09:30 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
> The Garmin cd will never have the marine
> info on it that the two chips have

Never say never. There's no reason that the
CD can't have more and better data on it, and
given that Garmin seems to have abandoned
the cartridge format (they haven't announced
a cartrdige unit in a couple of years), I
expect to see them improve the CDs.

Chuck

Tom Byrum posted 03-13-2001 09:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Chuck why are you saying Garmin is abandoning thier units that use a chip? Simrad, Furuno, Northstar, Raytheon all use a chip.
Peter posted 03-13-2001 10:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
While I agree that "never" is an extreme, I don't believe the inference that Garmin has abandoned units that use a chip. Garmin markets its cartography in two distinct ways, land cartography and marine cartography. For land based cartography, Mapsource and chips are used as the data source while the marine based cartography products, for the moment, rely on chips only.

For marine navigation products, chip based cartography may have some advantages over the CD product. One that I can think of is that the data "download" is almost instantaneous and can be done virtually anywhere -- swap one chip for another, you don't even have to turn the unit off. Furthermore, the chip "download" doesn't require a sometimes cumbersome interface with another piece of equipment, i.e., a computer with CD drive. If I were on the water in my Whaler and on the cusp of two chart areas and needed to do a download "on-the-fly", I'd rather do it with a chip than getting out a computer with CD ROM, connecting the data interface cable, waiting for the computer to boot up, executing the download program, and then when that's complete, disassemble and store the computer. The other thing is, how long would the computer last exposed to a salt environment or the pounding it might receive in rough water?

Finally, it also seems to me that the 162 unit only has 2.5 megs of storage capacity for downloads, whereas I belive that the large G-chart capacity is up to 64 megs. I don't believe that any of the Mapsource products have a 64 meg capacity yet.

triblet posted 03-13-2001 06:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The 162 has 2.5MB. That's enough to get six
topo maps in, and they have more detail than
nautical charts.

You can tailor which sheets you put in so
you rarely if ever cross a boundary.

There are Garmin units with removeable flash
cartridges that you load from the CD. They
hold up to 128M!. The more recent Garmin
flash units (eTrex Vista) has 24MB builtin.
That's a LOT.

I don't think the large ROM chips are 64MB.
They are also done with flash or write once
technology (the big vendors like West create
them when you order them). If they were
64M, they would have been a lot more than
$300 three years ago. The amount of data on my midsized
G-chart for my 175 is probably 512KB, maybe
1MB. I'm guessing from the relative amount
of data compared to topo sheets.

Chuck

Tom Byrum posted 03-14-2001 10:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Your right about the word never. I should have said Garmin does not have any plans for cd to have the detail that is found on the nav chips. They are coming out with a new updated version of the 180 called a 182 but it too uses a chip.
triblet posted 04-17-2001 12:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Garmin has announced several new marine
chartplotters in the last few days. See
http://www.garmin.com/whatsNew/announcements.html
See all four announcements dated 04/12.
Note that the new Garmin Blue map data will
be available for CD-downloadable units
(very probably including the 162/168) and
includes depth contours.

Chuck

Tom Byrum posted 04-17-2001 01:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Chuck I would check it out closely before you pay for a new cd. It was a rep at Garmin's 800 number that told me they had no plans for the cd units to have the marine detail that the chip units have. He didnt mention the new Garmin chip at all. Maybe the new Garmin chip has much more detail than the Navionics or the Cmap chip?
SuburbanBoy posted 04-17-2001 10:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
To quote the Garmin site: "In June, GARMIN will begin offering BlueChart cartography on a CD-ROM. The CD will be compatible with the GPSMAP 76, eTrex Legend, eTrex Vista, and other GARMIN products." I believe that this will include the the 162/168 as Chuck stated. One issue with the transfer of the traditional chip based material to CD loaded systems, will be the smaller memory capacity of the 162/168 series. At only 2.5 MB, they will be limited as to how much info they can store.
triblet posted 04-17-2001 11:21 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I suspect the 2.5M won't be an issue. I'm
using topo sheets right now, which have a
great deal more detail (land contours, roads,
houses, streams) than the nautical charts.

Chuck

Peter posted 04-17-2001 02:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
It will be interesting to see how the BlueChart data compares to Navionics and NOAA chart data. I hope they post demos like they do for the Mapsource databases. Also, I still wonder whether 2.5M truly is enough memory for marine navigation applications when Garmin's designated brand new marine GPS BlueChart ready products (176, 176c, 182, 232, etc.) will continue to rely on chips rather than user downloads into memory for the offshore data (i.e., detailed depth contours, inter-tidal zones, spot soundings, wrecks, navaids, port plans, restricted areas, cable areas, anchorages). If memory is sufficient, why does Garmin continue to use the chips? Is it a legacy?
triblet posted 04-17-2001 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I think Garmin came out with the chips
because the market believes that only the
chips will have the required detail. The
CD will disprove that.

I have five topo maps, maybe six in my 162.
They are 1.186M. One is the area around my
house (no water for the boat just for playing
around. Two are Lake Dom Pedro for houseboat
trips. Two are my everyday maps of Monterey
and Carmel Bay. They are about 330K each.
There is a huge amount of detail on the topo
sheets: countour lines, streets, houses,
mines, etc, etc. There's more data there
than on a marine chart, therefore more bytes.

Peter and Suburban Boy, I'll bet you each
a Boston Whaler hat that when the CD comes
out, I can get my two Monterey charts into
my 162.

And BTW, my eTrex Vista came today. 24M
of map memory, and smaller than a pack of
cigarettes. Actually, THREE of them came
today. Yes, I got charged for them. If

Chuck

Chuck

SuburbanBoy posted 04-18-2001 12:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
No bet, as I hope you are right. I tried the topo map and seem to remember that I could load 5 or 6 before I ran out of memory. I believe the topo CD maps are raster maps (scanned bit maps) and not vector maps. I thought the chips usually contained vector maps. If you look at the demo for "Fishing Hot Spots" now on Garmin's site, you will see that it contains much data (similar to the G-charts). I want to find a CD source with all of the boat ramps identified. The Garmin Topo does not, nor does the DeLorme Topo USA 3.0. I hope some of the new CD's will contain this type info, in addition to depth charts etc. Good luck with your Vista's! Nothing beats two fisted GPS'en!
Peter posted 04-18-2001 09:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I tried the Fishing Hot Spots and it had no detail for my area. Must not be any hot spots here. No wonder I don't have any luck fishing ;)
triblet posted 04-18-2001 10:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The Garmin Topo CD is vector, not raster. This is
very apparent in the contour lines being
made up of short line segments (vectors)
rather than curves.

I have the National Geographic Topo! CDs
also, which ARE raster, and really detailed,
but not downloadable to Garmins.

Also, raster would be bigger than vector in
memory.

You could collect the lat/longs of all the
boat ramps and enter them as waypoints.

Chuck

SuburbanBoy posted 04-18-2001 03:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
I think that the vector versions are preferred, because they are so scaleable. The raster versions are just scanned pictures, and therefore not very scaleable. Think of it as the difference between a CAD drawing and scanned blue print. A good explaination is located at this site:
http://www.landfallnav.com/electroniccharts.html

Do the National Geography Topo Maps have the boat ramps identified?

triblet posted 04-18-2001 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
The National Geographic Topo! maps don't have
the launch ramps ID'd, as I rememember.
They do have much more detail than the Garmin
Topo maps. I use the Nat Geo stuff when I
need to make a map for a website.
See http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/swell/gpslobos.html for an example.

However, even the USGS can be wrong -- they
got the northwest corner of the park wrong.


Chuck

2001 13 Sport Owner posted 04-18-2001 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for 2001 13 Sport Owner  Send Email to 2001 13 Sport Owner     
I just bought a Garmin 185 GPS/SOUNDER and I love it. I use it to help me navigate around the bays on the Texas Gulf Coast. The G-Charts have great detail and are helpful in locating great fishing spots and navigating around the oyster reefs and other hazards. It also gives me the confidence to explore areas that otherwise I would not dare to go. Although my 13 Sport is bit small to accomodate 2 people fishing, it is perfect to get me to some great spots for flyfishing and wadfishing.
daverdla posted 07-24-2001 01:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
LarrySherman,
Did you get your Standard 160 GPS? How do you like it? I heard that there was a 3 month wait for delivery.
Thanks
Dave
LarrySherman posted 07-24-2001 01:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Yup, I got it and like it very much. I'll be HOPFULLY using it soon, so I'll post and let you know. So far, I've just powered it up on the boat and connected it to my Intrepid LE. Worked great, but I wasn't really using it, more just playing.
daverdla posted 07-24-2001 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
Glad to hear it. I already have the Standard Intrepid radio. I'm impressed with the quality so I'd like to stick with that brand for the GPS.
Dave
TightPenny posted 07-24-2001 05:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for TightPenny  Send Email to TightPenny     
I have the Garming 235 GPSMap/Sounder unit mounted on my Montauk. The G chart cartridge was well worth the money.

I went searching for a friend's house on a lagoon. My course tracked right down the middle of the mapped lagoon. I couldn't ask for a better cartographic representation.

daverdla posted 07-24-2001 06:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
Just looked at the Standard units at boaters world. (I really don't like shopping there, but its near my house) I prefer the 160 over the 150 but I'm afraid with that,a fishfinder and a compass my montauk's console will be too crowded. I will have to consider a combo unit. The garmin 235 is very impressive.
Dave
triblet posted 07-25-2001 10:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I have a chartplotter, compass, fishfinder,
and VHF all on top of my Montauk console.
They fit, though I'd lay them out a big
differently next time.
http://www.garlic.com/~triblet/whaler/07240002s.jpg

Chuck

Barnett Childress posted 07-25-2001 01:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barnett Childress  Send Email to Barnett Childress     
When I had my 16' Dauntless I had a Lowrance LMS160 GPSMAP/sonar unit. It was a good unit with 160x160 pixel count. I bought an additional 12 ch antenna and mounted it in my Land Rover so I could swap the unit between the boat & Rover when off roading. Built in map was pretty good and CD came with it for downloading additional map detail.

I sold the Lowrance unit with the Dauntless and have been looking around a bit needing a unit that again could do double duty between the Montauk & off roading/hiking. I looked at the newer Lowrance units but the size seemed a bit to big for the Montauk console and to be used in a vehicle.

I ended up buying a new Garmin 176C GPS/Chartplotter. Unit is approx. same size as the Lowrance unit I had & has built in antenna or can take an external antenna, so this covers all possible uses for me. Features a 320x240 pixel 16 color display, built in map of the world, takes Bluechart cartography chips or blank chips up to 128MB for downloading Garmins Mapsource CD info. I also picked up Garmins TOPO & Recreational CD's. Looks like it should be a great unit. I should get it tomorrow & I'll post how I like it.
Barnett

triblet posted 07-25-2001 01:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Barnett, if the 176C is like most Garmins with
a quad helix antenna, you don't need a separate
antenna for your truck, just a piece of the
right coax. The QH antenna usually attaches
to the unit with a BNC connector. Just put
a short piece of the right coax (no, I don't
know the definition of "right") with M/F BNC
connectors in between.

Chuck

dgp posted 07-25-2001 01:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Let us know how that color display works in direct sunlight on your open console Montauk.
daverdla posted 07-25-2001 05:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
I checked Lowrance's website and didn't see any mention of WAAS in their products. I sent them an email regarding WAAS. Their aviation units seem to be well liked. (I use a Delorme Earthmate connected to my palm 3 with a $39.00 software package for flying. Good for VFR)

Triblet,
I've seen your setup on your website before, several times - very good. I already followed your advice for the antenna with the 20' cable. I have the same fishfinder as you (at least its looks like the same humminbird). It came with the boat. I think its at least 6 years old. Still works but I just noticed that the plastic is cracking around the quick release, makes a combo unit look even more reasonable.
Dave

Barnett Childress posted 07-26-2001 08:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for Barnett Childress  Send Email to Barnett Childress     
The Garmin 176C arrived yesterday. I only had time to fool with it for a little bit but initial impression is screen is a bit to small for me. Color display in direct sunlight can be a bit hard to see depending on the angle you view it at. However the internal map was very impressive compaired to what the Lowrance LMS160 had. Much greater detail and more info. Didn't have time to download any Mapsource TOPO CD info.

I think I'm going to return this unit and try to get something similar but with a larger screen and maybe drop the color display.
Barnett

daverdla posted 07-26-2001 02:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for daverdla  Send Email to daverdla     
This is the reply I got from Lowrance regarding WAAS.

"Thank you for your inquiry concerning WAAS compatibility. The Wide Area
Augmentation System, better known as WAAS, was designed and developed by the
United States FAA specifically for use in US aviation. This system is only
for use in the US and currently is nearing full implementation. WAAS
promises to offer pilots much-improved accuracy in altitude over the
standard GPS-only receiver.

According to the US Coast Guard which regulates all maritime or marine
navigation:

"WAAS is not yet fully operational and is currently in a
testing status, undergoing further development. It is not certified for use
as a safety of life navigation system in the maritime navigation
environment. WAAS may be used, with caution, in the maritime environment to
improve overall situational awareness, but it should not be relied upon for
safety-critical maritime navigation. The Maritime DGPS Service, on the other
hand, is fully operational and meets all the standards for the harbor
entrance and approach phases of navigation. WAAS is not optimized for
surface (maritime and terrestrial) use, rather, it was designed primarily
for aviation use. It is intended to eventually support aeronautical enroute
through precision approach air navigation. The current WAAS test signals are
transmitted by two geo-stationary satellites on a line-of-sight, L-band
radio frequency. This means that if anything obstructs the view of the
portion of the sky where the satellite is, the WAAS signal will be blocked.
Since geo-stationary satellites are positioned over the equator, the farther
north users are, the lower the geo-stationary satellites are in the sky -
increasing the likelihood of an obstruction. In contrast, the medium
frequency (285-325 kHz) radiobeacon-based Maritime DGPS Service is optimized
for surface (maritime and terrestrial) applications because it's ground wave
signals "hug the earth" and wrap around objects. This means that the Coast
Guard DGPS system is well suited for the marine environment (down in the
"ground clutter") where a geo-stationary satellite can be blocked by
terrain, harbor equipment and other man-made and natural objects."

Other similar systems are currently being developed overseas. However the
EGNOS and MSAS systems are only now entering the development stage and are
years away from full implementation.

The WAAS system was conceived and designed when Selective Availability was
active. At that time GPS positional accuracy was an average 50 to 100
meters. Users in the US and the rest of the world should now be experiencing
the same basic GPS accuracy of 10-15 meters or better. Based on current
government figures, WAAS would increase that accuracy to 7 meters (95% of
the time) without any additional external DGPS equipment. If you are using
GPS for safety-critical navigation, you will need to use the US Coast Guard
DGPS or Nationwide DGPS to get the highest accuracy. (1-3 meters).

Lowrance is dedicated to providing our customers the very best in cutting
edge technology in our products. Lowrance will continue to explore new and
emerging technologies, which can be exploited for the benefit of our
customers. We will also continue to monitor the progress, implementation,
and performance of the WAAS system to determine how it may be of maximum
benefit and use to our customers. We are exploring the benefits of WAAS.
This feature and other emerging technologies may be available in future
products when we feel it may be applied most beneficially, for the use of
our customers.

Complete and accurate information about WAAS is available directly from the
US Government Federal Aviation Administration website at the following
address. http://gps.faa.gov/Programs/WAAS/waas.htm
<http://gps.faa.gov/Programs/WAAS/waas.htm>

Specific comparison information between WAAS and DGPS as well as other
system and limitations information is available from the official US Coast
Guard Navigation Center website here:
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/news/archive/2001/may/WAAS-DGPS.htm
<http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/news/archive/2001/may/WAAS-DGPS.htm>


Thank you for your interest in Lowrance Electronics,Inc.

Lowrance Electronics
12000 E. Skelly Dr.
Tulsa, OK 74128-2486

Customer Service 1-800-324-1356
Customer Service 1-918-437-6881
Customer Service Fax 1-918-234-1707

Website http://www.lowrance.com <http://www.lowrance.com>

LEI Extras online ordering: http://www.lei-extras.com
<http://www.lei-extras.com> "

LarrySherman posted 07-26-2001 04:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
The Standard Horizion CP-160 I bought gave me a WAAS fix in New London CT. Right on the money.
triblet posted 07-26-2001 05:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Net: Lowrance doesn't have WAAS capaibility
in their chipset yet.

FAA claims seven FEET, not meters, for WAAS
today. I think seven meters was the original
design spec, and the implementors beat that.

In practice you should have good satelite
visibility anywhere in the south east,
adequate on open water on the East and West
Coast, and really poor in the northern part
of the midwest and west. WAAS works JUST FINE
in Monterey, has NEVER lost lock. DGPS would
loose lock for a couple of minutes a couple
of times a day.

But once again, do you really need that
accuracy. Most folks don't. But it doesn't
hurt either.

Chuck

tbirdsey posted 08-06-2001 07:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for tbirdsey  Send Email to tbirdsey     
Anyone have experience with the Garmin 168 with internal antenna (vs external antenna)?
Barnett Childress posted 08-06-2001 08:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barnett Childress  Send Email to Barnett Childress     
Checked out the new Garmin 206C. MUCH larger than the 176C. Nice, but way to big for my use & big $$. Now that I've had a few more days to play with the 176C I really like it. When adjusted the screen is easily viewable in direct sunlight & the slightly smaller screen size than my old Lowrance LMS160 has proven not to be an issue. I bought a second Garmin marine mount to switch the unit between the boat & Rover. Garmin's marine mount is a nice little gimbal style mount that easily lets you remove the unit or lock it into the mount.

I also like the 176C's overall size. Fits great along with my sonar unit and compass on the Montauk console without taking up to much space.

If your looking for a new GPS/chartplotter with the latest features check out the Garmin 176 or 176C. Its worth a look.
Barnett

triblet posted 08-06-2001 11:06 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
I've got two buddies with 162I (same unit
as 168I, but without the sonar) on their
inflatables. Both are happy with them.
I've got a 162 with an external antenna
mounted on the console rail. I did this
because my 175 got noticable stronger signal
strength with the external antenna than with
the internal antenna, but that may be the
antenna rather than the mounting position.

I'm not a big fan of combined GPS and sonar
because I'm often trying to use both at the
same time to nail a pinnacle, or a small
sand patch to put the anchor in. If you only
use one at a time, the combined unit should
be fine, and less bucks.

Chuck

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:


Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.