Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  OMC down to the wire!

Post New Topic  Post Reply
search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   OMC down to the wire!
bigz posted 02-05-2001 11:29 AM ET (US)   Profile for bigz  
The Godfrey Conveyor has submitted two bids collectively for the boat divisions of $32.8 million ---
$22.5 for Four Winds and Lowe combined and $10.3 for Chris Craft, Seaswirl and Hydra-Sport.

A rumor from 2/2 circulated that Mercury has bid $48 million and Bombardier $52 million for starters but it wasn't clear if this was for the whole or just the engine division!

Well the final round should be taking place in Chicago right now and news should be out later today on the outcome --- it will then have to go to the court for approval on 2/8 whatever the outcome ----

jimh posted 02-05-2001 11:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Please keep us posted with the latest and most accurate info.



CDN posted 02-06-2001 08:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for CDN  Send Email to CDN     
"The Lighthouse" indicates that a last minute teaming of Bombardier and Genmar was the winning bid for $95M for all except Princecraft. Looks like engines will remain intact. Princecraft will be bid separately. Rumor has it 2001 model year is done and next engines will be 2002 models.

Can't find a confirmation anywhere. Brunswick may contest.


bigz posted 02-06-2001 10:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
I too haven't found confirmation CDN --- maybe later today ---

However if it is true and the court approves possibly best thing to happen to OMC --- Bombardier has the engineering/marketing expertise to make the engine business very formidable plus deep pockets and at this ridiculous fire sale price won't be overburdened with debt restructuring --- and of course Genmar has similar qualities and gets some more boats and an "in house" engine manufacture, no more depending on outside sources so to speak --- definitely of all scenarios a plus plus ----

I don't think Bombardier would have a problem getting the Ficht agreement that is if they want even to pursue it since they are involved with Orbital anyway --- plus they are certainly capable of developing their own 4 stroke engines --- just have to see on this one

From a 600 million plus sale just a few years back to less than a 100 mill sale price today -- ---

CDN posted 02-06-2001 01:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for CDN  Send Email to CDN     
Confirmed but not done yet. Brunswick still in the mix, but looks like Genmar/Bombardier for now.


triblet posted 02-06-2001 04:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Correct URL is
Dick posted 02-06-2001 08:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
A press release on Bombardier's site today. They will take Johnson & Evinrude brands as well as the FICHT technology and Genmar will take the boats.
lhg posted 02-06-2001 09:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Bombardier, the French Canadian firm that also brings us the Sea Doo Jet Skis & Jet Boats among various other high quality airplanes and rail cars, is claiming they were the successful bidder for "certain" engine division assets of OMC. Among those they list the Evinrude and Johnson brands and FICHT technology. They may have bought cheaply enough that they may be able to deal with the Waukegan Superfund cleanup issues and honor previous warranties. We'll have to see what parts of the operation they continue. I'll bet Genmar is guaranteeing them that at least they will buy the new engines for their boat lines. Just like Merc/BW, if you want a boat in the Genmar family, you're going to have to take a Bombardier E or J engine - period!

The real surprise is that evidently Mercury wanted the engine division, but got blindsided by this deal! Wonder why they wanted it? They certainly didn't need the 2 stroke technology or Ficht.

What is really interesting here is that it shows how badly OMC deteriorated, and how fast. The total loss, including 765 million in filed claims by creditors, plus initial capital & later infusions by Soros, appears to be about 1.2 billion, with OMC only able to recapture about 95 million of this from this fire sale. In other words, they were losing money at the rate of over $40 million PER MONTH for the last 2 1/3 years. So if my math is good, 1.1 billion is lost by the creditors & investors, including Soros. How did they ever pull off such a scam and keep it alive as well as they did! I can't believe that many OMC engine and boat Dealers are not also going to go broke from this. That's a lot of money to ask small businesses to eat.

It will be interesting to see how all this develops.

bigz posted 02-07-2001 08:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
For what ever this might be of interest here are a few more tidbits gleamed from the various news sources

Now this was a real scoop. The Lighthouse OMC news site hit the web with just about all the facts of the bidding outcome at 1:59 AM on the 6th ---- the other point is the actual selling price might be closer to 87 -88 million because it has been reported part of the agreement includes "OMC" handling about 8 million of "certain cures" prior to final conclusion --- what I read here is that yes the sale is for 95 million but only after OMC handles approximately 8 million for whatever is meant by "cures" this area has not been made clear at present ---

Well it appears on the surface the two key factors dealers were most worried about warranty coverage and Ficht technology will be handled by this joint venture of JTC (Genmar) and Bombardier. However it was reported earlier that Ficht had sued to stop OMC offering the Ficht technology as part of the sale in addition Orbital has sued OMC because part of it's proprietary technology is being utilized in the Ficht design. Also the warranty coverage ??? does this mean the new owners will foot the bill or just the deal Genmar put together a while back where the dealers have too --- ???

Also reported that Genmar will take OMC research, development, and testing center in Florida not Bombardier --- this could be for the use in the on going testing and development of their VEC -- or virtual engineering composites technology for boat construction --- check out Genmar here

Soundings Trade Only online is reporting Genmar 45 million for the boats and Florida facilitate and Bombardier 55 million for the engine division --- they also are speculating that Brunswick may offer a higher bid on Thursday at the court hearing --- heh heh -- well who or what you think today is on first tomorrow maybe on second base!!

Larry your arithmetic is correct --- heh heh even Mr. Wizard had a similar computation up on the OMC news RBBI site --- unreal ----

Links to news stories ----
OMC accepts joint bid from Genmar, Bombardier
Bombardier selected to acquire engine assets of OMC
OMC accepts $95 million asset bid

jimh posted 02-07-2001 08:44 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
How do you pronounce Bombardier.

Is it "BOM-Bah-Deer"?

Or is it "Bhom-Bar-Dee-A"?


dgp posted 02-07-2001 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Jim, it's the second one! Think French Canadian, eh?
Peter posted 02-07-2001 08:57 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
The latter.
bigz posted 02-07-2001 10:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
JimH --- thank you very much for the editing

Boy-o-boy did I need the help on the above post ---


hauptjm posted 02-07-2001 10:31 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Bomb - ba - deer - British, American

Bomb - bar - di - er - French

Both extracted from bombarder, one who bombards.

Clark Roberts posted 02-07-2001 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Clark Roberts  Send Email to Clark Roberts     
I'll choose boom-ba-deer'! Being a long way from Quebec or France... Interesting to note that the US town of Calais, Maine is pronounced Ca'-lis and not Cal-la'. Maybe they pronounce it Cal-la' across the river in Canadian New Brunswick?.. Hey, here in the south, we pronounce lots of things like no one else... hang in there... Clark
bigz posted 02-07-2001 12:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
So far no one has it right--- heh heh
The corporation is know as "Bom-BAR'-dee-ay" and in the US it became bastardized to "The Bomb - ba - deer snowmobile (alias SKI DOO) blew up due to a faulty gas line --- no one was hurt"! Probably because it is spelled the same as "The Bomb - ba - deer flew head-first through the plastic nose as we took another direct hit from the anti-aircraft battery"!

Working in the snowmobile industry in the early 70's it was referred to as the Ski Doo made by Bom-BAR'-dee-ay --

Hope this sheds a little more light on this extremely important subject since it appears
Bom-BAR'-dee-ay is going to be the producers of Eve and John, that is if Brunswick doesn't muck up the deal ---


bigz posted 02-07-2001 04:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Ha ha just remembered so I double checked it out on the "Bom-BAR'-dee-ay" site and now a dab of history ---
1942, founding of a company by J.- Armand Bombardier to manufacture tracked vehicles for transportation on snow-covered terrain. The company's name is L'Auto-Neige Bombardier Limitée.

Thus the pronunciation of the name which has nothing what so ever to do with bombing -- chuckle

lhg posted 02-07-2001 08:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Brunswick is evidently saying they weren't treated fairly, or legally, in the OMC controlled auction and bidding. They insist they were a higher bidder than Bombardier, but stepped aside when OMC demanded they post a non-refundable $25,000,000 deposit! That's why many are saying Brunswick could yet screw up the deal (from Genmar's perspective) when a Judge looks at the matter. After all, all the creditors want is the most money they can recover and Brunswick says they were willing to pay more. My guess is that Genmar's Jacobs doesn't want to be in the engine business, but wants to have an engine source for his boats not controlled by Yamaha or Mercury, his competitors.

To put the total 95 mil (or 87 mil as BigZ says) price for OMC in perspective, just remember Brunswick paid 110 mil for just Igloo Coolers. So I would think this 95 mil could be bid up a little higher.

Still can't figure out why Mercury wants it, unless it's to eliminate competition from another well heeled foreign competitor. With OMC's collapse, they are now up against the Japanese big boys by themselves.

jimh posted 02-07-2001 08:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have the final word on the correct pronunciation:


From Canadian sources!

dchris2 posted 02-07-2001 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for dchris2  Send Email to dchris2     
It all sounds pretty pathetic. It's horrible to think that OMC is sunk, but, figures like 25 million are a joke. A whole company sunk for less than the cost of a single F-15 fighter. Sad
dchris2 posted 02-07-2001 09:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for dchris2  Send Email to dchris2     
It all sounds pretty pathetic. It's horrible to think that OMC is sunk, but, figures like 25 million are a joke. A whole company sunk for less than the cost of a single F-15 fighter. Sad
bigz posted 02-08-2001 09:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Larry yes Brunswick is belly aching however Volvo raised a protest that the way Brunswick bid was against FTC regulations!
Brunswick idea was just that break it up and eliminate competition --- Buckley can't be trusted to utter anything that has a semblance of honesty, just my opinion.
OMC held the right not to accept even the highest bid based on the thought if a bid was slightly less but it meant selling the company as a whole they would be inclined to take that bid (read the how to bid and auction rules)--- Brunswick's rumored original bid $48 million and Bombardier actually was rumored at $50 something this was prior to Monday's formal auction both rumored bids were for the engine division only --- Brunswick didn't have a clue when they went into the auction that G&B had formed a joint venture that would bid for the whole operation! Brunswick then tried to scramble to form a group of the boat division buyers and re-submit at that point OMC said fine but you'll have to put up $$$$ non-refundable to place your bid --- there were also concerns on Brunswick ability to purchase based on anti-trust considerations, the fee was meant to say hey we'll postpone until you get your act together but it's going to cost you up front-- just in case it doesn't come together! Bottom line the deal G&B put together caught them up side the head ---
I would bet that yes Buckley will have his group in court today screaming like stuck pigs --- will just have to wait until the court decides
lhg posted 02-08-2001 02:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
And this is the same person, and same Company, also in control of the Boston Whaler division?

There was a report on the radio this morning that the FTC wants to keep Brunswick out of the purchase because of monopoly considerations. This is most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If Bombardier successfully walks away with E & J, Mercury will STILL have a monopoly as the only US outboard engine manufacturer. After the Microsoft mess, I am not much of a fan of the FTC. By preventing Mercury from buying OMC, they will be insuring that FOREIGN competition is preserved, since then there will be no other US outboard engine manufacturers. This I don't get. How many more US companies, besides OMC, need to be run of out business this way. Make no mistake, fierce competition from Yamaha is partly what killed OMC. Can Mercury (and Boston Whaler) hold on against these highly capitalized foreign companies like Bonbardier, Yamaha, Honda, Nissan and Suzuki? Maybe the FTC wants to see Mercury and Boston Whaler on the block next.

Well, now I'm heading over the Federal Bankruptcy Court to see what's going on next.

hauptjm posted 02-08-2001 03:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
FTC - Foreign Trade Commission!!! These idiots never cease to amaze me! How could the only U.S. manufacturer of outboard engines become a monopoly? They are a monopoly. I don't know who'll end up with OMC, but if it's a foreign company (most likely) and the FTC has had their dirty little hands on it, you can bet Brunswick will fight it. I don't blame them. I'm not a fan of the idea of Brunswick owning OMC simply because I liked the competition that always existed between the two companies. We, the consumer, were always the beneficiary. However, if it means another U.S. company leaves our shores, then I'm all for Brunswick taking over. Of course, the judge has to consider the bids from several angles, and what's best for the creditors is the prime concern. Sorry to go off on the FTC from my soapbox, but I truly do wonder who the hell they work for sometimes.
jimh posted 02-08-2001 04:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
A Canadian boating co-worker of mine was very happy to hear that Bombardier was the winning bid. He's a stockholder, and says that the Canadian government is always pumping money into Bombardier to help them out.

So it's a government-subsidized foreign company!

whalernut posted 02-08-2001 06:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
It would seem that the best buyer of OMC would be a USA corporation with the intention on makeing J/E in the USA to go up against Mercury and the Foreign makers? Wasn`t their a USA corporation other than Brunswick with the funds and interested in OMC? I am not happy with a Foreign company owning OMC, but do not want Brunswick to buy them and eliminate J/E engines either? Regards-Jack Graner.
CDN posted 02-08-2001 07:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for CDN  Send Email to CDN     
Every company and individual in the world had the right to bid on the engine portion of OMC. Only Bombardier and Mercury Marine bid. So all the wishing won't make any difference, only money up front, and only these two came through. The creditors want as much of their dough as possible.

Most companies that do business world-wide also have to get approval of the European Union. I went through that when Compaq bought Digital Equipment Corporation, so it may be more than just the FTC. And I agree that that the FTC may be concerned if Mercury bought engines. They might just keep the names and sell parts only (probably at inflated prices), and try to get every J/E dealer to sell Mercury outboards. Almost all already sell and service MerCruiser stern drives. My guess is Bombardier would actually keep the engine group as a business, and make the outboards in the US.

Keep in mind that this is a company that went broke trying to compete, even though over $500M was put into OMC in the last three years. For a company with only a $1 billion in sales each year, that's a lot. And it still died, bad management notwithstanding.

I am really surprised Bombardier is buying it. I can't really figure out how they will make money in today's environment. We'll have to wait and see what the court says, and if it goes through, wait to see how Bombardier puts together their new outboard division.

Dick posted 02-08-2001 09:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
The latest news on Lighthouse ( is that Brunswicks offer today in court was rejected but it doesn't appear that the Bombardier/Genmar offer has been approved yet. Bombardier may be a Canadian based comany but I think they will at least keep the J & E names alive. To my knowledge they haven't failed in endevor they took on. Better to fuel the new J or E with Canadian beer than saki.
dchris2 posted 02-08-2001 10:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for dchris2  Send Email to dchris2     
I guess the working 1964 evinrude 18.8 hp goes to the Smithsonian. so much for engine collecting.
bigz posted 02-09-2001 05:25 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Brunswick's bid for OMC rejected

Here is the full story on what occured late yesterday --- as Dick pointed out if you all want to read the details --- Tom

bigz posted 02-09-2001 09:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Well it was early when I posted the news story link, --- so here goes my take on what y'all are calling foreign ---

Canada is about as foreign as say Texas to some parts of this country --- chuckle --- with the North American Trade Agreement in place for products, services and labor at least in the business sector it sure as heck doesn't appear to be Foreign to me ----

My guess is that "Bom-BAR'-dee-ay" will continue manufacturing on US "soil" employing US citizens for the most part since that certainly don't have an skilled outboard manufacturing labor just laying around idle ---

The "government-subsidized foreign company" issue isn't in reality true either --- "Bom-BAR'-dee-ay" do manufacture and develop numerous infrastructure products for the Canadian government --- the government helps them out in the context that without government funding why would "Bom-BAR'-dee-ay" even bother --- not unlike we do with certain tax cuts for R&D with our industry and manufacturing sectors or our military when they under right development projects in the private sector ------

Just my thoughts for as they whatever --- remember no two persons ever read the same book!


lhg posted 02-09-2001 01:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The Crains Chicago Business article casually mentioned that the FTC would have killed the Brunswick deal because with, OMC's outboard market share of 30%, Mercury would then have 80% of the outboard market. So I guess this means Mercury currently has 50% of the US outboard market, with the various Japanese manufacturers, primarily Yamaha, with 20%. Honda and Suzuki have insignificant market share today, but this could change as 4-strokes become mandated.

So now the FTC just guaranteed that the Creditors and Dealers, mostly US businesses, will take a real bath, just so Mercury doesn't get a monopoly. With net proceeds of 87 mil, less 8 mil to pay off (cure) Ficht & Orbitals' patent claims, less lawyers fees, what's left for paying back these people?
It's about 75 million to pay off 800 million or so in debt! Assuming the original investors' 500 million is completely gone, and they grab none of the 75 million.

So Brunswick/Mercury now seems to be the company that everyone loves to hate. I wonder if all this OMC hostility toward Brunswick will effect BW sales eventually.

I hope the people that brought us the plague of SeeDoo Jet ski's (over 50% of that market)
treat us better with their new outboards.

And Tom I totally agree with you about Canada (I'm even 1/4th French/Irish Canadian), but I think even the English Canadians, great people with a great country, consider the French Canadians somewhat foreign also! The French Canadian separatist movement is not good for either Canada or us, and I hope this never happens. I wonder where Bom-BARD-yay stands on this issue?

bigz posted 02-09-2001 02:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Actually as reported from the court room yesterday the FTC had concerns but they didn't say they would kill it if Brunswick was the successful bidder --- it would have caused a delay ---

Other creditors including the dealer network issues will be addressed on Monday and Tuesday next week ---

The Judge would like to see the actual purchase contract wrapped up ASAP --- if this can be done OMC divisions might be operating or at least some by as early as next week ---

Don't think the French Canadian issue is to much of a "real" issue anymore --- granted with some it is but time and time again it has been defeated --- this lastest articles I have read appear that it is bring played down by the Quebec goverment

bigz posted 02-09-2001 02:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
here is the rest of what I wrote don't know what happened to it ---

Well some folks (of course no members on this forum) would think that the real plague was the outboard motorboat! Like anything else that comes down the pike the Jet Skis are getting reined in more and more just like their land based brethren the Snowmobiles --- the last reports I showed sales of J-Skies were off significantly ---

Bombardier has always had the reputation of a well run and innovative company! Hey maybe Buckley will sell Whaler to them or at least Genmar --- That Brit is better off with his Igloos, me thinks!

Chuckle ---- well I think our JimH will be posting a little thread regarding the pronunciation of Bombardier ---- apparently this might be needed so it is the "last word on" the "last word on" ----heh heh ---. Tom

hauptjm posted 03-05-2001 01:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
An interesting article/commentary appeared in the February issue of Boating Industry International. Basically, their comment and opinion is that the OMC situation was inevitable. Whether OMC died as a result of mismanagement or other means, doesn't matter. It was going to happen to someone, and probably will again in the near future.

The marine outboard industry is a mature, overproduced market. With that, there are price wars in an already thinly margined business, that doesn't really offer that much difference from one manufacturer to another. Add to the fact that they are being pressured by regulators to produce engines that require greater and greater R&D expenses, and the mix creates a horrible market. The weak will fall first; in this case OMC. BII even correctly forecasted that OMC would be taken over by a foreign company with other means of revenue, outside of the outboard market (however, they did predict a Japanese conglomerate).

With less outboards selling in 2000 compared to 1990, the trend in the market is not good. The question then becomes, who next? Any industry that evolves to the degree that the outboard market has evolved will inevitably generate a lot of consolidation. Let us hope that the Mercury is listening. Market share means nothing in an industry that can’t make money. The only survivor of the buggy whips, was the one that converted to an antenna maker.

lhg posted 03-05-2001 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
In all the boating publications, and on the web, I keep seeing boats for sale with newer Evinrude and Johnson engines, saying full factory warranty time still left. Well, this is presently a joke, since the Company that built them no longer exists. Only by the good graces of Bombardier, who is incredibly silent about this issue, would a factory warranty of some sort come BACK into existance. It may also be possible that a selling dealer would fix an engine out of his pocket, but for a new buyer of the used engine? Who knows. I have heard that Bombardier wants to get the parts business back in operation, so that should help restore value to owners of existing older engines.
hauptjm posted 03-05-2001 03:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
It will be interesting to see how the outcome of this buyout develops. If I had to bet on whether Bomber would honor the warranty or not? 50/50! They are being very quiet on the whole thing. The engine side of OMC was/is very well represented by the union boys, so maybe it is their way of protecting themselves from something. Regardless, I think the editor at BII is correct. The industry as a whole will change significantly over the next 5 year.

p.s. I think the guys at Sundance might get my business if/when I repower. Those are great prices, thanks Larry.

dchris2 posted 03-06-2001 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for dchris2  Send Email to dchris2     
Looks like the museum. 1960 to 64 evinrude in great shape. winterized 4 yrs ago. 18.8. I can't believe the game is played, but it looks like it's over. I'm looking for the anchor hold on the merc that comes with the sporster. Damn, how could this happen?
hauptjm posted 03-07-2001 09:55 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    

Judge Erwin Katz, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, rules that OMC terminate employee benefit plans for retirees, including medical coverage. The government will take over the pension plan, which is $73 million under funded.

Unfortunately, these kinds of business transactions can get ugly for the little guys. Retired factory workers and staff are usually the ones who suffer the most. That's why we're seeing more and more employees becoming independent of their employers. Loyalty is to ones self, not the employer any more. Not sure which is better.

Genmar Marine completes OMC purchase, making Genmar the largest boat building company in the world. They now build 18 brands of fiberglass and aluminum boats from 14 manufacturing centers in the U.S. and Canada. Although, it looks like two of these plants will be closed down and consolidated into existing facilities already under operation.

blackdog posted 03-07-2001 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thank God. It looks like they are going to cover Warranties.
Check out


Ps- how do you insert hot links?

triblet posted 03-07-2001 05:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet

You can get a description of how to do hot
links by clicking on "UBB Code" just below
where you type in your message.


blackdog posted 03-08-2001 09:42 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Thanks Chuck
Maerd posted 03-08-2001 04:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for Maerd    
Why should we get stuck with the pension shortfall? Makes me hot. Concrete truck drivers here in Chicago now get $30 an hour and held up one 400 million dollar city project while they negotiated. What the hey.

Post New Topic  Post Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.