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Author Topic:   Bombardier finalizes OMC purchase
bigz posted 03-13-2001 02:39 PM ET (US)   Profile for bigz  
http://www.boating-industry.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=20753

It is now a done deal. Operational plans will be presented shortly. As reported else where in a post warranties are being covered already on 2000 and 2001 models

lhg posted 03-13-2001 07:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Tom, and others interested in the future of Evinrude and Johnson engines, take a look at this new, very realistic, article in the situation Bombardier has found itself in. VEry interesting reading.

www.boatingnews.com/eyerdam_retr.htm

(Sorry, I don't know how to do the links yet.)

Sounds like no new Bombardier designed engines for 12 months or so. Mercury and Yamaha are scrambling to capture this 28% market share hole, and by buying Princecraft boats up in Canada, that OMC marketshare for engines is automatically lost permanently to Mercury.

lhg posted 03-13-2001 08:10 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
While you're at boatingnews.com, you might want to check out the very interesting Black Power articles about Brunswick/Mercury. The current article has a real informative paragraph about the large outboards and their future. Follow their "what's inside" link.
jimh posted 03-13-2001 11:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
That boatingnews.com site is totally unusable for me.

First, it is designed with Frames, which is just about the worst possible approach to building a website. Frames totally confuse the user, probably part of the reason why the URL that Larry posted above does not work.

Then, the site design falls completely apart if the browser window is not the same size as the designer expected it to be.

I wasted ten minutes trying to find some news on there, but I got nothing.

I should have known it was going to be all down hill when you have to click on the picture to enter...

whalernut posted 03-14-2001 05:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Guys, the URL Tom posted worked for me and the site worked for me? I wonder if my computer is of a different configuration? Regards-Jack Graner.
bigz posted 03-14-2001 06:48 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
http://www.theboatingnews.com/eyerdam_retr.htm

The link above will get you directly to the story Larry is referring to.

It is just that a "story" --- some facts, some conjecture and just possible a whole lot of fiction!

One thing which gets me chuckling if not down right laughing out loud is using Buckley as any legitimate source of information --- he is well know for his grandstanding,then when things ---- does his oops on what he predicted or spouted out about don't quit turn out --- well you generally never hear that topic discussed again by him ---

bigz posted 03-14-2001 07:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
JimmyH --- try this link ---

http://www.theboatingnews.com/index.html

direct entry to the front page ---

I had read both stories Larry referred to, neither I felt had much merit I might add.

In fact this "news" site is a last resource on boating business news I will check -- I like the news reported factually not smattered with personal observations which amount for the most part as conjecture slanted to whatever the bent the writer is inclined.

PS Jim I had no problems navigating -- frames or no frames --

triblet posted 03-14-2001 10:07 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
All modern browers support frames.

Chuck

SuburbanBoy posted 03-14-2001 02:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
Why recycle the OMC name? Just continue to support the old stuff, and use the very effective and flashy See-Doo name for the "new" line of outboards. While Eyerdam may think that FICHT is a jewel, from what I have read here in this forum, and the obvious poor performance in the market (they did go bankrupt), FICHT appears to be an answer to a question no one is asking. Yamaha, Mercury, Honda, Suzuki and Tohatsu all have Reliable forms of fuel injection. But, maybe Rotex can salvage the FICHT technology. BTW, Rotex has a reasonable reputation in the motorcycle industry. They are not considered bowsers. It is a shame that the name behind the inventor of the outboard could just end up another bit player in a lineup of "badge engineered" products.
compounder posted 03-14-2001 06:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
Boy, make that "Sea-Doo" & "Rotax."

Not trying to be a spell-checker or smart-*ss, but we may as well get them correct. It seems they are going to be a large part of our boating future.

Dick posted 03-14-2001 09:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I spent many years as a Sea-Doo and Ski-Doo dealer between 1969 and 1997. Rotax knows how to build engines that perform.
We may see a Johntax and Evintax, or maybe a John-Doo and Evin-Doo, but I think they will do it right.
It's a tremendous oppertunity for Bombardier to expand it's market share in the marine industry.
Dick
jimh posted 03-14-2001 11:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Re: Why I could not find the link last night:

It was late, and I had just finished some taste testing research with a fine _California_ Cabernet Sauvignon when I tried to type in the URI. I entered

"boatingnews.com"

instead of

"theboatingnews.com"

I wound up on some wretched frames-based site that was beyond navigation. My "modern" browser supports frames, but why would anyone in their right mind use them? They are the equivalent of animated GIFS or the <BLINK> tag as far as I am concerned.

OK, back to boats...

Wow, these guys have some stuff to say, don't they? I guess there was a lot of dirt shovelled at that Miami Boat show.

One interesting thing I have recently learned is that the whole boating business peaked about 1988 and has been getting smaller ever since. This was as of about 1999, so maybe the last two years of good times and more disposable income have sent it back up. I dunno.

As for gas prices: I remember back in 1975-1976 that gas was around $1.50/gallon. I just filled up at $1.39/gallon. My income is vastly higher now than in 1975, so gas is a huge bargain (for me) compared to then. So I don't buy the gas influence.

--jimh

hauptjm posted 03-15-2001 10:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
To put your gas theory into perspective; consider the $1.50 gas of 1975 equates to $3.67 gas in todays dollars. This assumes a 3.5% inflation rate. Adjust todays cost of gasoline into 1975 dollars, and todays cost of gas is only 38% of the cost in 1975. That's a negative inflation rate of -.29% per year for 26 years. Throw in the average increase of income over the same period, and we're buying gas at a third of the cost, with over three times the income. The U.S. cost of energy being used for any excuse will never hold water.
hauptjm posted 03-15-2001 03:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Dick,

Don't forget JohnJet or EvinJet. Yes y'all, the OMC engines are now made by the maker of Lear Jets. Maybe they'll just skip the 4 stroke concept and jump straight to turbine power. Remember the old Chrysler Turbine powered cars? Seriously, though I wonder if we may see some real advancements in the outboard industry now? Maybe a little fresh blood is what we really needed!!

bigz posted 03-15-2001 03:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
The new Bombardier websites for Johnson and Evinrude ---

http://www.evinrudeoutboards.com/

http://www.johnsonoutboards.com/

Excerpt from the Bombardier press release prior to their fiscal earnings report ---

"We are actively developing a detailed business plan and will soon be in a position to announce the action plan for the future of this business. We are also busy building the organization structure to support the business plan. Once both are complete, many of the commonly asked questions regarding the business footprint, previous employees and product line-up will be answered. In the meantime, your continued patience is appreciated."
Roch Lambert
Vice President & General Manager
Bombardier Motor Corporation of America

bigz posted 03-16-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
"Bombardier may build engines soon"
[url]http://www.boating-industry.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=20846[url]

Last from Bombardier.

Just informed by my OMC marina dealer, that apparently parts will be available for repairs shortly on a regular order basis.

lhg posted 03-16-2001 02:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I don't know Tom, and not sure they really know what to do with what they bought. Seem to be struggling. The Genmar boat companies are getting back up, but Bombardier seems lost. Waukegan employees have heard nothing, which is amazing to say the least. Can't imagine how any serious engine prouction can begin at a presently shuttered plant with no union contracts, and major site pollution problems. Lots of unhappy employees (about 2000), Dealers and Evinrude Ficht owners are still out there, not taken care of at all. They have made a deal with Suzuki, to continue 4 stroke production for them, however. If they're going to bring out 2002 models, they need to get going, since those debut in September. But I have heard that a few dozen employees have been brought back for parts supply machining.

I wish them well, but so far I'm not impressed with the way so many have been treated. Now, if they'd only stop ruining the waterways of the US with those damn jet skis and blobish jet boats! (This goes for Yamaha too). Sell them in other countries please, instead of here! A friend bought a Bombardier Sea-Doo twin Rotax engine jet boat two years ago. Said it was the worst piece of junk he ever owned! Lots of engine trouble. He got rid of it for a SeaRay Sea Rayder which he said was a much better product. (he also owns a 50+' Sea Ray, which he loves)

bigz posted 03-16-2001 03:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Mr. Doom and Gloom Larry! Your stating to sound like an gossipy old lady my friend!

Well for one thing Larry the plants were never shuttered --- they had skelton staff manning them through this entire period and in fact some staff was called back a week ago to a couple of the facilitiies.

The pollution issue will be resolved, I am positive if the Coke plant is to be reopened. --- Oh by the way the furances were never shut down during this problem period.

The plants when vacated were left in readiness to reume full production. The crews they left have maintained this state of readiness.

I have the above info from two very reliable sources.

Did Bombardier know they would be a successful bidder? No they didn't but they now own the brands and facilities -- does a corporation the size of Bombardier need time to digest and establish a sound business plan --- your darn toot'n thye do -- back off a moment and just remember the time fram this has all occured in -- pretty darn fast if you ask me.

As far as OMC employees that you can lay at the feet of previous management --- Bombardier can't be blamed for any of this treatment ---

Oh heck I don't paricularily care for Jet Skis but hey there business whether I like them or not domestic or foreign -- has really nothing to do with this Johnson and Evinrude issue

compounder posted 03-16-2001 04:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for compounder  Send Email to compounder     
Larry, I'm surprised to hear of your dislike of PWC's. After all they are just small inboard boats. As the owner of two of them along with 3 "real" boats, I cannot understand why "real" boaters have some sort of disdain for PWC's. It seems as though the two camps are always at each other's throats, when in reality they should be supporting each other. There apparently are plenty of folks out there who would like to legislate all motor-driven watercraft out of existence. I think we should all stand together to resist these efforts.

I'm sure "real" boaters are bothered by mostly younger folks who misbehave on PWC's, but these are the folks who would be causing problems for you even if PWC's did not exist. The real problem is the individual, not the vehicle. I would rather have the idiot endangering me on a 600 pound PWC than in a 3000 pound Boston Whaler!

Bigz,
Jet Ski's are manufactured only by Kawasaki, Waverunners by Yamaha, and Sea-Doo's by Bombardier.

Joe

bigz posted 03-16-2001 04:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
POLARIS?
sport15er posted 03-16-2001 05:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for sport15er  Send Email to sport15er     
Unfortunately it's much easier for the "idiot" to rent a 600 lb jet-ski, than rent a 3000 lb. Whaler.......
;-)
bigz posted 03-17-2001 12:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
'Bold' plans in store for OMC plant
http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_story.asp?intID=3696791

Posted today 3/17 in the Daily Herald, the third largest newspaper in Illinois

Fellows Jet Skis aren't really involved here in this topic --- if you like try one of the Usenet forums to voice your opinions on those machines --

Regards,

Tom

lhg posted 03-17-2001 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Tom, I think the bold plans are that they are going to tear down the old joint, and sell off the Lakefront property once it's clean enough for development, and once they have another place to make the engines. Could make a tidy profit on the real estate there. The City is so desperate to keep the workers employed that they will probably give them the necessary incentives to build a new plant elsewhere in the town.
This would be first for Bombardier, as they have no operations in the US at all. Wonder why they've never liked the US business climate? Unions?

But in the meantime they have to get parts back up in operation or they are going to lose the Dealers, and current owners of the outboards. Right now, if you've got trouble with an any engine, you can't get it fixed unless it's fairly simple and aftermarket parts are available. They have to get many of the major parts back in production, and soon. So there should, indeed, soon be some life around Waukegan.

During a visit last week to a Mercury and Yamaha Dealer, they told me that OMC engines are impossible to trade in right now. Parts are still a big worry, and the Dealers are afraid they can't re-sell them. Nobody, except perhaps another OMC Dealer, will take one. These guys have turned down four possible trade-ins for a Merc or Yamaha in the last 2 weeks. I wonder how used Whaler sales are going with OMC engines on them?

As far as pre-2000 Fichts, this Dealer says current owners just can't get rid of them. Not even Bombardier will touch these for warranty.

bigz posted 03-17-2001 03:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Well Larry depends on whom one talks to! Frankly wouldn't classify a Merc or Yamaha dealer a "reliable" source.

I really despise gossip and rumors! Dealers are certainly a grand source for it to particularly if they are competing dealers!

The facts are that parts will be supplied and actually were supplied during the shut down period.

Now the '97-'99 factory warranties for the most part have expired however the extended warranties will be honored by the insurance companies which sold/hold them -- these aren't OMC extended warranties but outside insurance companies dealers can use for this purpose. In OMC's case I believe there were 3 a dealer could select from. The report I have is that these companies are very good at honoring the warranty claims and payments to dealers have been a no hassle deal.

Larry all in all I have tried my best to state facts not conjectures about what might be what will be or what had been --- If you read over all my post on this subject you will see I am averaging about 90%+ accuracy.

I predict you will see positive activity this week --- the EPA stuff on the Coke plant will be handled eventually --- hell it hadn't been handled for years now it should be handled immediately hog wash!

Tom

PS Bombardier actually paid close to 65% of the over all sale price, of course there was the Ficht adjustment to the Ficht family! Gnmar got one hell of a deal I'd say.

bigz posted 03-20-2001 11:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Well the good news is that the Atlanta and Troy Hills operations are open at E&J.

Parts can be ordered with out any significant delays according to a dealer I just spoke with this AM.

Bombardier is in the process up setting up new accounting procedures to transfer dealers over for new account credit lines. For the time being the dealers can use something called "FaxCheck" I think is the term to pay for orders.

So warranty work if needed will not be a problem or just service non-warranty.

hauptjm posted 03-20-2001 03:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Our biggest local dealer this morning: all warranties are covered. He has no problems with parts. He too was told the accounting system would be up and running within 30 days. This dealer has sold and serviced OMCs for over 30 years.
whalernut posted 03-20-2001 07:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
Thank God, the boating season is right around the corner, and I need to purchase a Water Pump tune-up kit and lower unit seals fo my 1975 85h.p. Johnson-Sigh! Regards-Jack Graner.
Bullbay posted 03-20-2001 10:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bullbay  Send Email to Bullbay     
I have never worried about warranty issues with my 2000 90hp Ficht. It is a great motor and my local dealer and my coastal dealer have assured me that I will have no problems with warranty issues with them. Personal relationships mean more than a piece of paper.
bigz posted 03-22-2001 01:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
"Bombardier returns 200 to work"

http://www.boating-industry.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=20986

Here is a somewhat interesting news release on the durability of Ficht engines from a year ago ---

http://www.evinrudeoutboards.com/PressReleases/News/News1162.htm and you can see the boat here http://www.powerboatadventures.com/crew.html sorry but they aren't Whalers

bigz posted 03-26-2001 12:53 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
It appears Bombardier is serious about their customers, the Ficht motors servicing and warranties, the dealer organization and keeping the J&E alive ---

"Bombardier recalls FICHT engines"

http://www.boating-industry.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=21051

If anyone needs more questions answered go to the new Evinrude and Johnson sites where a FAQ page has been posted on warranties.

Tom

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