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Author Topic:   Guardian or Justice?
duckduckgoose posted 07-10-2001 04:22 PM ET (US)   Profile for duckduckgoose   Send Email to duckduckgoose  

I just got a mint 84 22' w/'99 merc (under 50 hrs). She is great but someone offered me and my dad slightly more than we paid for her. Now I want to keep her , but my dad visited this sight and saw pic of the guardian and is looking at a CPD hull. He contacted their CpD Rep and inquired abot a 24' Justice and a 25' Guardian. I figured the price would scare him but he was not de-railed. Now he is deciding between the two. I understand the Justice is a deeper v hull similar to the Accutrack. ?? What input can I give him via your opinion on this situation. I tried to explain that the boat we have is enough boat.
Trying to keep my 22,
lhg posted 07-10-2001 06:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I'd say your Dad's a pretty smart old guy!
Not many people have the wisdom to take a look at a new CPD boat for recreational use.

The 24 Justice is the 24 Outrage, offered from 1993-1997, designed by Peter VanLancker under the Reebock era. The hull began life in 1991 as the 23 Walkaround. There are comments on this site about that particular model that he should read. Brunswick/Sea Ray discontinued the model in favor of their own design, for reasons unknown.

The 25 Guardian in the Classic 25 Outrage, one of Whaler's best boats, designed by Bob Dougherty in 1981, and continued in recreational production until 1993. The US Navy and Coast Guard own hundreds of these. But either are nice boats, and I like them better than the newer 26 Outrage (really a 24 with a 2' bracket built into the hull).

I am prejudiced because I own one, but I think the 25 is the model to buy. It will probably cost more, but be worth every penny of it. The slightly deeper v 24 will ride a little better into a headwind, but is not as stable laterally and does not have as much useable interior space.

If he gets the 25, have him order it with full transom, for installation of a transom bracket other than the Whaler Drive unit. He should also get in touch with Louie Kokinis and Dive 1 on this site, our two CPD resident experts.

Good luck - keep us posted on progress. Many of us are interested in the process of buying a new CPD Whaler.

LarrySherman posted 07-10-2001 07:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
Also, can you let us know (with discretion of course!) what CPD is asking for the two models. I'd really be interested!


DIVE 1 posted 07-10-2001 10:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
I agree with LHGs recommendations. I have been in both boats and I liked the additional cockpit space in the 25'. If you are serious about a new CPD hull, contact them and find out about EVERY available option and reenforcements before ordering the hull. The list is extensive and should be studied carefully. If there are any questions, CPD should be the point of contact,not a dealer.
duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 01:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
I agree, I am not dealing with adealer. I (MY dad basically) is dealing w/a CPD rep.. I do not want to loose the 22'.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-11-2001 01:16 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

Don't want to come across as sarcastic, but If you don't want to lose the 22' why don't you just keep it or buy your father's interest in it.

Bit confused as to your circumstance.

Hope things work out for both you and your Dad.


Bigshot posted 07-11-2001 10:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
No occupation listed in profile, so no $ I assume to be the reason.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-11-2001 11:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

Who asked you??


duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 12:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
My dad is very persistent in doing what he wants. We each have other boats besided the 22'. I have 26' Regulator, and my dad a 31' earlier model Bertram that he is having restored. We agreed to have the whaler as a joint venture since we both love the classic outrages. I have no employment listed as I am self-employed. Wow people sure are quick with assumptions.
Contender25 posted 07-11-2001 01:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for Contender25  Send Email to Contender25     
Tsuriki- settle down!

Resaonable responce with a name of DuckDuckGoose, no offense DDG.


If you have a Reg 26, the Justice or Guardian does not make sence, for you. I have a 1999 Contender 25 and purchased a 13 classic and a 20 ft sea craft for fun, easier to tow around when I get home from work. I would think your 22 fits into that catagory. If you both like the classic whalers like you stated I do not understand the point of you partnering up with your dad on a CPD whaler, a totally different animal, expecially the justice. Let him buy the CPD and you take the 22. Sorry but your question is confusing. I honestly thought you were much younger and your dad had to sell the 22 to get a CPD. CPD are really great boats, in my own opinion it is the rich wood and finish of the older whalers that make them special. The CPD have neither of these attributes. It sounds like your Dad wants a bigger boat while his is being restored.

Tsuriki- Do you have beef with Bigshot. If so take it elsewhere, How is that Bimini T-top by the way?

Bigshot posted 07-11-2001 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I don't appreciate that Tsuriki! None of my business but none of yours either. I assumed and you know what assume spells but he kept repeating "my Dad", not "ours". I am part of another boating forum and MANY kids come on and ask questions and it is hard to tell who is 13 or 31. People should list their occupation and region of residence so assumptions are not made. The profile is there for a reason. That reason being we get to know a bit about them. If they listed video games and Pokemon as interests, you would have a better idea of who you are dealing with. As far as name calling goes, not necessary, especially when I was not talking to you. I did not mean to offend DDG, just making a comment:)
duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 02:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
Guys no offense taken. Situation is my dad wants a unique Whaler. The classic is just perfect. He wants to have one different from the others just to have it. If he could, he would outfit it as a military boat with .50 cal gun and all just to be different. That's all. It would be a "cool" boat to have because that is the way he is. He sees one and wants it. I don't get it but no matter how old I get he is always older and works in impulsive ways.
He would never really use it. It would sit there for an occasional trip and he could just look at it and say" this boat is great".


Bigshot posted 07-11-2001 03:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Cool! They make camoflauge ones! I have also seen them specially ordered in teal, blue, red and hunter green. With a tan(not desert, I mean TAN) interior. main thing here is how much do you want to spend? If this is a joint purchase, then you have the right to say NO! Right?
duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
I don't see the point in me buying his share and having 2. I am more rational than he is. We have 3 hoists at our place. Large slipd for the Bertram, one for the 26', , and the last one for a classic whaler. The 26' Reg. I have I bought from him. He bought 2 in 98 both identical except the color(to shed light on how he thinks). The other rmaining regulator he traded for the 31' Bertram via a broker in miami where he used to keep his boats at his " getaway". It is easeier to say yes to him than argue by saying no. It has nothing to do with spending or the fact that 26' reg. is similiar in purpose to say a 26' Justice. He wants what he wants.
I had no idea asking for opinions would snowball to a psycho-evaluation of me, my career, my dad and the reasoning and rationale behind my post.LOL
Bigshot posted 07-11-2001 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Lay down on the couch! So how do you really feel about the whole situation?
duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 04:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
What is your hourly charge for therapy? LOL
Ihave been trying to convice him to do up the 22' in a unique"over-board" way....pun intended! Get it out his system.
White Bear posted 07-11-2001 04:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for White Bear  Send Email to White Bear     
You dad sounds like a really neat guy; enjoy him. I am curious though, where does a name like DDG comf from?
White Bear
duckduckgoose posted 07-11-2001 04:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for duckduckgoose  Send Email to duckduckgoose     
As an avid outdoorsman Iengage in many activities. My 2 favorites fishing/boats, and waterfowl hunting. When I was 10 my father gave me a 410ga and took me on my first hunt with some buisness freinds. They all said that their boys play duckduckgoose but not like I "played" it(meaning the hunt). 2 decades later they still call me that.
Louie Kokinis posted 07-12-2001 12:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
duckduckgoose: Many of the old CPD guys have been moved around to different divisions. Make sure that you are dealing with someone who's been with CPD longer than the last shuffle.

Having said that, there is no substitute for a knowledgeable dealer! M&P Mercury (my dealer) and their staff where my best asset. They have been in business since the 50's, and have sold many commercial and recreational boats during their history. Since the factory will not sell you a boat direct - you will have to eventually find a dealer to work with anyway.

CPD boats are built to be tough not pretty, odds are that your hull may also require cosmetic touchups - mine did. The dealer did this along with all the rigging.

Help with the initial order and rigging is where a good dealer will shine. M&P order 22 Guardians for fishing lodges, phenolic and console placement on my boat was determined by their experience with fishermen not their commercial customers, who have a different set of requirements.


PS The 25 Guardian gets my vote.

Dan posted 07-12-2001 12:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Louie, what is M&P's contact info? If money wasn't a factor I'd go for the 25 Guardian too. Customizing the console placement and other items for fishing and other needs would be a fantastic bonus.
DIVE 1 posted 07-12-2001 10:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
You are very lucky having an experienced CPD dealer to lean on. We have a BW dealer(Portage Entry Marina) in our are that is great for the recreational boats but they do not handle the CPD. We sure would have saved a lot of research time if we had a dealer like yours in our area. Portage Entry Marina would be a great choice for a CPD dealer, but the volume of sales is not justified in our area.
lhg posted 07-13-2001 12:41 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Lauderdale Marina in Ft Lauderdale also handled a lot of CPDs-for-Recreation sales.
One of Whaler's most knowledgeable Dealerships
Louie Kokinis posted 07-13-2001 09:24 AM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Another good one is The Outboard Motor Shop in San Francisco.


PS Dan, I will try calling you later today.

dgp posted 07-13-2001 06:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
duckduckgoose, this thread has gotten weird and now I'm gonna make it more so. I was in my local bait and tackle store the other day and had to use the restroom. In there they had a wallpaper border that had a repeating theme of framed pictures of a duck, then another duck and then a goose. There was a caption under each picture that identified it a duck, duck, goose.
Please pass the bourbon! Don

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