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hardensheetmetal posted 07-30-2001 08:13 PM ET (US)   Profile for hardensheetmetal   Send Email to hardensheetmetal  
What does this remind you of:

Well respected, high quality manufacture of American made goods, that are purchased by both recreational (near cult like) users and law enforcment agencies, changes 50 year old design to go with 'new' technology to help bolster market share...

I'm not into motorcycles, but it would seem Harley Davidson took some lessons from Whaler
with the introduction of their new liquid cooled bike

Dan Harden

Tsuriki BW posted 07-30-2001 09:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

As long as they don't change that distinctive "Harley Rumble" of the engine, why not. Kinda like the "Smirk"?

I love the sound, the look the.....of Harleys. One of these days I'll have one. (Got my Whaler)


hardensheetmetal posted 07-30-2001 10:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for hardensheetmetal  Send Email to hardensheetmetal     
well...from what I've read, I don't think the LC motors make anywhere near the same well known grumble. Like I had said, I know nothing about cycles, but If I did and I was looking to purchase one, it would def. be a Harley, and that would have a lot to do with what the company stands for and the history behind their products, kind of like Whalers.


Dick posted 07-30-2001 11:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
It would be a shame for the Harley sound to go away, there is nothing like it.
Like Whaler Harley has been through its ups and downs, both have survived and both have made changes to do so. I would rather see a great company make the changes necessary to survive than go under for the lack of them.
The Harley sound goes away, most of the classic Whalers have gone away but the companys are still here producing great products.
LarrySherman posted 07-30-2001 11:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for LarrySherman  Send Email to LarrySherman     
I'll bet that the LC Harley will be like the "New Coke" really tastes pretty good, but sales seem to lag. If HD can survive the AMF years, they can survive this too.
Tsuriki BW posted 07-30-2001 11:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

The "Harley" sound will never go away. The "Whaler" will never go away. Few changes here and there but a Harley will always be a Harley and a Whaler will always be a Whaler. Maybe not just like we used to know them, but they will be there.

Ain't it great...


Dick posted 07-30-2001 11:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
I love it!
triblet posted 07-31-2001 10:17 AM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Harley's make me want to get out my
sound-seeking Stinger missles. Sorry guys,
but I don't like people sharing their LOUD
with me.


Tsuriki BW posted 07-31-2001 10:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tsuriki BW  Send Email to Tsuriki BW     

Understand what you are saying. To me it is the "thump, thump, thump" that is unique to the Harley that I love, not the volume.

Loud volume, "Boom Boxes" in a car with the windows down at a stop light really get the old blood preasure rising.


Peter posted 07-31-2001 10:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
You can get that sound from a two cylinder lawn tractor. Aren't the motors the same? ;)
Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 11:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
From a Harley owner, I give you this: The PATENTED "potato-potato" (not thump-thump)sound that everyone(myself included) love is due to the pistons raising and lowering at the same time. It is called a single pin crank I believe, they are not opposing. Harley actually sued Honda for designing a bike the same way. Harley would not be here today if it was not for Ronnie Reagan and his Foreign manufacturers embargo on cruisers. He banned any cruiser from resembling a Harley. Be that in looks, sound, etc. This kept the foreign bikes especially the strong competition from Japanese manufacturers from encroaching on Harley territory. This lasted from around 1980-1 until the late 80's. Willie G. bought the company back from AMF and had one of the most notorious IPO's(initial public offereings) by driving Harleys and parking them all over Wall street. Willie's new $$, lack of competetition and better(to some)designs actually started selling bikes and the company was out of bankruptcy concerns. Shortly afterwards the Harley craze started and the rest is history. Today the Japanese manufaturing competitors are allowed to mimic as we have all seen but can NOT use the patented sound. The Brits, oh sorry, Great Britain did the same thing with Rolls Royce years back and actually subsidized them so they would not go under. They could not have a great namesake like Rolls be bought out by another country or disappear, woops! Thank Ronnie Reagan and Willie G. It is great to get off the subject every now and then, huh?
ValkariaKid posted 07-31-2001 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for ValkariaKid  Send Email to ValkariaKid     

Harley LOST that lawsuit to patent the "potato-potato" sound. They tried to appeal the ruling, but after a while they DROPPED the suit.
Their new bike the VROD was developed in Germany with Porsche's help and revs up to 9000 rpm! It sounds like a buzzsaw! HD claims to still have the "potato-potato", but in the video I saw of the bike I didn't hear it. Oh well....

Live to fish - Fish to Live


Dan posted 07-31-2001 11:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dan  Send Email to Dan     
Speaking of motorcycles, Harleys, motorcycle gangs, etc -- why not start a Whaler gang -- we could ride around on our Whalers in packs and tear up marinas and romance the women of other boat owners and get leather jackets -- Ride Free or Die -- Hell's Whalers! Always wanted a Harley -- favorite motorcycle bumper sticker: "ass, gas or grass -- no one rides for free!"
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 07-31-2001 11:46 AM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Bigshot, with talk like that I assume you will be heading this way for the 100th anniversary in 03. Too bad you can't bring the boat and the bike! Not too many complaints about the "potato, potato" in this state. Even when it comes from my Mercury! (Fon du Lac, Wi) What a state! Great beer, good motors, great bikes, great fishing, great hunting, great sports, skipping cheese, and great folks. I love to travel but it is always nice to come home to Wi>Charles
Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 11:53 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Was not sure of he outcome, that is why I just said they sued them. Kind of hard to patent a sound but it was done. Would love to go but I might have to fly or bring my Japanese bike(old GPZ550). Wife wants tile floors, something has to go. Bought it new in 94 and it has only 5K. Not enough time down here for all that stuff. Neighbor is buying it so I still get to ride it now nad then and NO maintenance. What a deal. Sounds like a great time up there. Nothing better than beer, fishing, boats, bikes, and my favorite, cheese.
ValkariaKid posted 07-31-2001 11:58 AM ET (US)     Profile for ValkariaKid  Send Email to ValkariaKid     
Yeah... that does sound great!... where do I sign up?

Hey...How about a boat trailer with a small ramp sideways at the front to hold a bike?
....Hmmm sounds interesting!

Let me see if I still have gas in my welder!


Peter posted 07-31-2001 12:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I believe that the suit concerned the trademarking of the "potato potato" sound, not patenting. I believe that Harley may have lost because the sound is the by-product of the engine design (see Big S comment of 11:18am). Since the engine design that produces the characteristic sound has been around for a long time, the patents, if any, have long since expired. As such, competitors are legally free to copy the expired patented engine design. By copying the functional engine design, they will necessarily get the "potato potato" sound.
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 07-31-2001 12:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
As close as these Japanesse bikes try to get they still have a tinnie sound. Even the Buells sound better. Not to worry the V-Rod will be a BAAAD bike.
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 07-31-2001 12:55 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
The V-Rod, which evolved from Harley’s VR 1000 racing cycle, was designed by HDI with engineering support from Porsche. The bike features a new 60-degree V-Twin, 1130cc liquid-cooled Revolution engine that generates 115horsepower (most in the Harley family). Interest among H-D riders in performance has been demonstrated by strong
acceptance of the Twin Cam 88 engine.
Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Man, the Evolution engine caused a lot of fueds between owners. Many owners did not consider them "real" Harleys. They eventually got over it. I can see some fueds over this engine. Some diehards will not embrace it for a while, especially water cooling, they'll get over it. Don't know about you guys but in 90 degree heat on an air cooled bike is like having your legs around an potbelly stove. I think it is great. The Evo has never given me any problems except batteries(lack of use)and a voltage regulator.
Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 01:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Want to clarify "I think it is great" is the new engine, not the oven under my tank.
Whaletosh posted 07-31-2001 02:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    

For the record, Harleys don't leave the factory with loud ehausts. It is just that like the ranks of PWC owners there is a large minority that doesn't care about others. They change the mufflers for louder mufflers or even worse straight pipes. this is no differen than the Boom, Boom , Boom car stereo crowd, or the guys that drive Japanese and Buell crotch rockets as if they are in the Daytona 200. It isn't the machine but the operator. If I was in the market for a bike it would be a Harley, keeping the nice quiet standard mufflers.


ValkariaKid posted 07-31-2001 03:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for ValkariaKid  Send Email to ValkariaKid     
I actually like the VROD.. (except the looks of those air scoops, and the inst. cluster).
It's about time HD finally decided to put a little $$ into R&D.
With every change harley made with new engines there's always been alot of skepticism among "purists". BUT.. the past changes (pan to shovel to evo to twincam) have been minor. They're still air-cooled V-Twins.
This new design is a RADICAL departure from the past (smaller disp., higher revving, Liquid cooled,developed in germany). I'm sure there will be even more friction with this new Harley than ever before. check out all the yahoo msg. boards, and you'll see. It's starting already, and the bike hasn't even been released.
I rode an '89 FXDL for the last 10 years, and last year I was looking to get a new one. The "new" FXDL wasn't any different than the '89. I sure wasn't worth $5000 more than the '89. So I looked elsewhere. I looked at all the makes (Honda,Kaw,Suz,Yam), and I liked them, but then I found the Victory V92C. My friend bought a 2000 V92C, and let me ride it. WOW! What a difference! I couldn't beieve I was thinking about buying a bike that wasn't a harley!
I fell in love with the Vic, and bought one last year. I couldn't be any happier!
for those who don't know the Victory is an air/oil cooled 92ci (1507cc) V-Twin. It is made here in america (engines from Oscecola,final assembly in Spirit Lake, IA).
In fact it even has more (alot more) american content than the beloved HD. It far surpasses any harley I've had the pleasure to throw a leg over in power, handling, braking, and overall quality.
For years HD riders (included myself) ridiculed all the other makes saying it was a harley clone. "look at that radiator!" "It sure doesn't sound like a harley!" sound familiar?
In actuality they were all filling a void in the market that HD failed to fill. and they did it better than HD has. They built a better Harley, and furthered the technology behind them as well.
Now look at the new VROD....
Who's cloning who now?
I'm sorry to see this happening to HD. I wish they released this bike years ago. They could have, but for some reason they didn't. They waited until the "writing was on the wall"., and that's a shame.
Here in Sebastian on tuesday nights it's bike night. Last tuesday there were 5 new Honda VTX1800's. Each one was owned by an EX-harley owner. One of them was another friend of mine who bought the #112th one off the line. He let me take it sor a spin. Man what a bike! It was downright FAST. Faster than my Vic. But it didn't handle or brake better than my Vic.
Anyway I think my point in all this rambling is that THINGS CHANGE!
I've got a true classic with my '79 Montauk, and the latest and greatest with my motorcycle.
Like they say "everything in Moderation"

"why do I feel like there's a bullseye on my back?"


Bigshot posted 07-31-2001 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Your back is clean! I agree and I am in awe at the new cruisers coming to market. That 1800 is BAD! I bought mine because my Brother-in-law wanted me to go with him to buy his. They said a 2 year wait, 1 minimum. So I plunked down my $200 also. Well mine came in in 5 months. 1 Good thing is it really held its value which was the main selling point in my eye. The Vics, Valks, Vulks(see a trend here?) etc are smoother machines but a HD holds it's value like no one's business which in this day and age is rare(except for BW's). Now that the Mkt is somewhat saturated I am starting to see the prices drop. I sold mine for about $2.5k less than I had in it. Try that with a yamaha. It was probably the worst riding(numbness factor) bike I ever owned but it had such "cool" factor and the sound....Man I will miss that.
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 07-31-2001 03:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Change is good! I am not a bike owner so I can not speak from experience, however I am a HDI shareholder and the return speaks for itself. I agree even diehards change their views as new products become available. I never thought I would own a Ford, 3 GM top of the line trucks later I bought an EB Expedition and I love it to death. The best vehicle I have ever owned. Moral----Keep an open mind! No Bullseyes or BS. From one Montauk owner to another.
yankee posted 07-31-2001 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for yankee  Send Email to yankee     
I read Harley now has 62% of the market. How many more bikes could they sell to us old fat guys? The new revolution engine on a bike that looks like the crotch rocket may be one of the few markets they could move in to. As for me I like my Montauk (Not a wahoo or Mekee craft) and my Road King Classic (Not a Vulkan or Valkaria) ,a little rough on some days , can really get you wet some days, but always looks good and when I sell them I will get more than I paid for each.
SuburbanBoy posted 07-31-2001 05:46 PM ET (US)     Profile for SuburbanBoy  Send Email to SuburbanBoy     
When I used to live in Milwaukee, my exclusive transportation was a stock bevel drive Ducati 750GT, with twin Conti tapered tailpipe/mufflers. Now that had a great sound! I agree that the folks who remove their stock exhaust are infringing on others rights to a reasonalbly quite environment. I would have to say that if we are talking about the sound of machines, my Tohatsu triple (70hp) at redline is a very close second to the McLaren or Honda F1 car!


dgp posted 07-31-2001 06:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
Man, talk about off topic! If you want a brand new 1957 motorcycle buy a HD; everytime you go to the dealership you spend at least a Hundred Dollars.
I've owned a couple of Triumphs, several BWM's (R80/7, R65S, R60/5 and R50/2), a Moto Morini, a 90th Anniversary 1200 Sportster and a Honda 1000S.
The BMW's are the essence of motorcycling; fast, comfortable, quiet and have the best luggage system money can buy. I've been to Key West (FL), Estes Park (CO) and Lake Placid (NY) on my BMW.
For absolute soul, you gotta have a Moto Morini, a v-twin 500 CC, uncivilized, noisey, ground vibrating beast that loves WFO, opps, make that WOT!
triblet posted 07-31-2001 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for triblet  Send Email to triblet     
Whaletosh, I'd call it a substantial
majority. Offhand, I can't recall a Harley
that WASN'T loud. And we are a bit in tune
to bikes. Admiral Linda has a 600 cc
Suzuki, and had a Honda CBR 600 till some
jerk stole it. She got back the frame,
block, and heads three years later. It's
still sitting in my side yard.


Whaletosh posted 07-31-2001 09:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    

Could very well be in your area. All I know is that I have had Harley's go buy me that weren't loud. I have also had many go but that could be heard for miles. No good reason for it, but that is they way some drive them.

I also don't like the go-fast boats that rumble around the marinas with the exhaust bypass vavles fully open. They have the abilty to quie the motors at whim and yet they choose not too.


Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 08:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
My bike was pretty quiet. Had Capt's call on that but unfortunately not on my Baja which sometimes is embarrasing. I try and shut it down asap when docking.
gunnelgrabber posted 08-01-2001 08:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for gunnelgrabber  Send Email to gunnelgrabber     
dgp is on the money with the '57 h-d antique...but the sound of h-ds throbbing out across the prairie to sturgis or coming across north fla. to daytona in the spring is a truly unique, spell binding me though,japanese mc technology,especially electronics,made it possible to enjoy the a hard core brit bike believer in the early made a convert of me. they may lack that soulful sound but they are hard to beat....soulful sounds?..a 2 cyl john deere tractor, 500cc matchless G50 single or bsa 500cc goldstar single, and yes, a 750cc hd sidevalve. very therapeutic.!...anybody ever hear a 125cc honda 6 cyl, 6 spd turning 11000 rpms..all afternoon..sweeping the field..i don't think that's a figment of my imagination...good sounds to you...lm
Gep posted 08-01-2001 12:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for Gep  Send Email to Gep     
Loud pipes save lives! I can't count how many times on my quiet 1982 Honda Gl1100 somebody has pulled over into me or right in front of me because they didn't see or hear me. I rented a 95 Heritage softtail classic to ride to Sturgis 2 years ago and NOBODY got close to me because you could hear me coming a mile away.
MilwaukeeWhaler posted 08-01-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 02:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
My Gpz has a 4-1 Yosh pipe and header. Pretty loud yet does not bother people. I think it is due to the fact that it is a higher pitch that does not make your windows rattle. My brother in law had stright pipes on his and I would just love the way it sounded but(believe it or not)could not be such an inconsiderate jerk to run them on the street. Besides they are illegal. Flames would shoot out the tips, but that GAAHhh! sound between shifts was sooo sweet.
Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 02:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
man I wish we had an edit button.....Brother in law had a Harley with the drag pipes.
ValkariaKid posted 08-01-2001 03:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for ValkariaKid  Send Email to ValkariaKid     
I've never been a subscriber to the "Loud pipes saves lives" theory.
I think it's alot easier to just hit the HORN! It's right there... just move your left thumb an inch and push. (or maybe it vibrated loose from your harley)
To rev up the engine you have to put in the clutch, and this isn't a good idea... especially in the rain. Say you revving your engine and you have to quickly move out of someones' way.... you dump the clutch.. the revs are still at 5000.. and the next thing you know your sideways infront of a cement truck! SMASH!
Then... after you wake up from a coma you find that they amputated both of your legs. Then your wife leaves you (because you used to spend "quality time" jogging every morning with your wife that you can't do anymore 'cause you got no legs!) for your your best friend (who likes to jog), and your kids are calling HIM daddy!
then you find out that your health insurance ran out, and because you're legless you can't work so you loose whatever you had left from the bitter, nasty divorce from the happy whaler owning jogger. Being that you're so down and out you decide to just end it all, and you squirm out of the hospital bed to take a nosedive into the metal IV stand, but as lying in the floor you're stay alive long enough to hear a nurse ask a doctor "do you think we should've put a helmet on him?"

Horns... USE THEM!

Besides.. it's kinda hard to sneak home with loud pipes after a long nignt of partying without waking up the "happy jogger"!



MilwaukeeWhaler posted 08-01-2001 03:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for MilwaukeeWhaler  Send Email to MilwaukeeWhaler     
Too much free time? Who said anything about revving?
Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 03:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Yup! You're warped but that was pretty good. Never one for that idea either or that helmets do NOT save lives. Let me hit you in the head with a crowbar and tell me if helmets do not work. I wear a Shoei RF-900 and was a bit apprehensive on asking my wife if I could buy a $450 helmet, she said Get the best helmet you can, your head is worth it. Was real tempted to get the Arai, but I still have to pay for it you know. Bell used to advertise back in the days,"Got a $10 head, wear a $10 helmet!" I like that.
ValkariaKid posted 08-01-2001 10:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for ValkariaKid  Send Email to ValkariaKid     
Hey BigShot I'm with you... but me personally... I wear a shoe on my foot... not on my head! But hey... to each his own!

Sorry... just came bback from the Tiki Bar.. had to help a friend wiith his boat, and he keeps it at the same dock as the Tiki bar.. so we had a few....
Bye now


Bigshot posted 08-01-2001 11:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Paul, that is the great thing about this country. I would ride with you any day! I might even go sans helmet depending on area. I am not judgemental, but I have slid my helmet a few too many times across the pavement to go without. I hope you will still ride with me wearing a hat. To the Tiki bar of course!

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