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Author Topic:   New Yamaha 225 4-stroke
johnk posted 08-02-2001 12:33 AM ET (US)   Profile for johnk   Send Email to johnk  
Yamaha has just updated their page with the new 2002 offerings. Looks like the HPDIs and OX66 remain basically unchanged. Big news obviously is the new big 4-strokes.

Their 225F adorns the front page of the outboard section. Lots of nice 360* views and specs. Looks like it weighs 90 lbs more than it's 225 2-stroke cousin. However, remove the oil injection infrastructure in a 2-stroke, and presumably the delta is ~60 lbs. If it works, it looks like a winner..


john

Forfun posted 08-02-2001 12:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for Forfun  Send Email to Forfun     
I'm interested to hear about the Yamaha large 4-stroke too. I have a commercial 22' Justice with a Johnson Ocean Runner 2-stroke. I want a re-power solution that is "clean" and this appears to be a viable solution. I have thought about twin 115 4-stroke, but weight is an issue. What is the price on the big Yamaha compared to twins? I would like to hear more opinions.
Bigshot posted 08-02-2001 01:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Twin 115 Zukis with guages and alum props were $6700+ with the $300 rebate so say $14k a pair. The 225 is a litle under that at Boats.net(13,600+/-)
will posted 08-02-2001 04:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for will    
My brother saw one on the back of a brand new '21 Regulator. Nice rig if your last name is Gates. The most interesting thing is that the boat has a huge range and enables the owner to spend most of the day in the gulf stream (from the mid-atlantic).
Forfun posted 08-02-2001 06:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for Forfun  Send Email to Forfun     
Bigshot,

Since both options are so .... expensive, not considereing price, in your opinion what is the better way to go. Dual 115's or a single 225 (4-strokes)?

reelescape1 posted 08-02-2001 08:14 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
FORFUN...I have a 22' OR and am looking at the same re-power options you mentioned. I've always been a little sceptical of "first model/year" offerings....I guess we'll see if the big 4 yammy does what's promised. I'm really leaning toward the twin 115 4 strokes but the weight is a BIG issue...we'll see!!
Bigshot posted 08-02-2001 08:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
I like the twins personally. But it would depend on whaler drive or not on the 22.
Flying Nutshell posted 08-02-2001 09:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for Flying Nutshell  Send Email to Flying Nutshell     
I have a 27 Offshore, and have just ordered 2 of the new F225s. One of my OMC V8s threw a connecting rod, so not as much an upgrade as a neccesity!

I test drove a 22 Grady with a single F225, and was absolutely amazed at how quiet the motor ran. It started quickly, ran smoothly, and no smoke whatsoever. It really lived up to the press releases and initial reports that I've read. I could hear the telltale at idle, and going through turns as 30 knots, while the engine could be heard, the spray noise of the wake was just as evident. Not quite a sailboat, but much different than I'm used to with outboards. Also, normal conversation at the helm was no problem. I couldn't detect any out-of-the-hole slowness, though difficult without a direct comparison with another boat, but throttle response was very strong. I will likely loose some topend, moving from 500 to 450 hp, but in the ocean, it's really unused anyway. I'll gladly trade topend for range.

Price was 'only' $5500 over new EFIs, and compared to the OMC V8s I'm replacing, I might make that up in fuel before the 3yr warranty is up! At 583lbs ea, they're heavy, but lighter than my V8s, even before removing the 12 gal of 2 stroke oil, hosing, and reservoirs.

One issue, the F225s, as twins, need an extra 2 inches of spacing compared with EFIs, so redrilling will likely be needed to repower from most 225/250s . On this count I was lucky to have the big V8s, as they're already spaced an extra 2in, so I won't need to redrill and plug.

I don't particularly like being the first with new untested products, but I trust Yamaha, and the 3yr warranty. My trust is based on my twin Y115s on a 1991 22 Outrage, of which I couldn't ask for more reliability and performance.

Still 1 month away from being back on the water with the 27, but will plan to provide the Forum with a performance update sometime in Sep. Flying Nutshell

johnk posted 08-02-2001 09:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for johnk  Send Email to johnk     
It's funny... Everyone complains about the initial cost of (in this case) the 225F Yamaha as compared to Yamaha's 225 2-stroke. When I do the math, It appears that, based on my usage, I will break even in cost in 2 years with the fuel/oil savings. Add to that the virtues that you can't measure in terms of $$ (drivability, low noise, no smoke, extending my range by 25-30%, etc), and it appears to be a very sound choice....


john

bigz posted 08-03-2001 08:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for bigz    
Just a bit info which you might have read already from last months Power Boat Report, if you're a subscriber, which I recently decided to become.

To quote Power Boat Reports on the Yamaha 225 4 strokes -- "you won't see us jumping on the bandwagon until these engines have proven themselves on the water for two or three seasons." They did state that since 4 strokes via Honda have proven to be durable well --- that these may prove out the same and avoid the DFI problems suffered by consumers during this teething period. Over all they were pleased with them as tested on a Grady White. They are awaiting the new biggie Honda for comparison.

Aside from "special" deals which seem to be illusive at best the 225 Yam 4 list at $17,450, Yam 225 EFI at $13,900, Opti 225 $14,700, and the Ficht 225 $16,700!
So if you're doing an arm chair pay back comparison only fair to use apple-to-apple pricing.
The difference in performance between the Ficht and Yamaha is slight! The Yamaha edges the Ficht out at trolling speeds of 5 knots but at cruising and WOT the Ficht edges the Yamaha out in fuel efficiency. The noise levels are close to the same, Yam 4 to Ficht and both significantly quieter than the Opti and of course the Yam EFI.

Bigshot posted 08-03-2001 09:15 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Honda 225 was tested in Trailer Boat mag. 0.8 gals at 1000 rpms. 616lbs. 9.?gph at 4000rpm. Liked it but also liked the Yamaha at 553lbs. Yamaha had better holeshot.
Whaletosh posted 08-03-2001 02:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
I read the same article in Trailer Boats

Honda claims the production motors will be lighter. They said that some of the production parts will be made using lost foam instead of the sand casting used for the prototypes. Plus some other weight savings should save about 60 lbs. Time will tell.

Curiuosly the difference bettween the 225 and the 200 is solely in the computer. Both motors have Honda's variable valve timing mechanically built in, but the computer for the 200 doesn't enable it.

Sean

outrage posted 08-09-2001 11:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for outrage  Send Email to outrage     
Hey Bigshot,

Where did you get that price for the 115 Suzuki 4 strokes? Do you know how much the new 140 four stoke will run?

Bigshot posted 08-09-2001 12:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Friend just bought two 115's. No idea on the 140's. Another friend tried getting a 225 Yamaha 4 and they are not being sold to the public yet, strange. Said hopefully in the next few months.
jimh posted 08-09-2001 08:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Very interesting discussion.

Here is a link to the Yamaha engine website:
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/products.asp?lid=5&lc=otb&rdir=1

johnk posted 08-09-2001 09:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for johnk  Send Email to johnk     
Saw a pair today on a new Grady in the showroom. At first, they look massive, but most of the extra mass and width is below the powerhead. The dealer told me that when retrofitting twin installations, the little bit of extra width means that the original holes in the transom can't be used.

Looks like a sweet motor, time will tell..

take care,

john

Peter posted 08-10-2001 02:50 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
The additional distance between motors should make pivoting better.

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