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Author Topic:   What is your favorite Whaler with Cuddy?

JFM posted 09-19-2001 04:20 PM ET (US)
I have just sold my 1969 Chris Craft Roamer 38' to a guy who has been after me for a long time. I kept it on the Ohio River for the past 18 years. I'll be in the market for a smaller cuddy. The only boats I know well are Chris Craft, SeaRay, and now Tiara(just went on a fishing trip on a 43'Open). When I purchased my 2000 Montauk, I looked at a 23' Conquest but I don't think that would be big enough and I don't want to buy new. Is there models between the 23' Conquest and the 35' Defiance(also don't and can't buy one new) that I shoud consider. Regards, Jay
dfmcintyre posted 09-19-2001 07:37 PM ET (US)
Jay -
I'll take a shot at this one. I've used (read travelled) three different "cabin" models over the years
We owned a 25' Revenge Cuddy for about 10 years. That cuddy is the same size as the 25' Outrage Cuddy. A good friend of mine bought a sister ship to mine, that was an Outrage.
What I liked about mine over the Outrage, was the absolutely_huge_no_questions_asked deck area behind the seats. I had a sterndrive, and if it was equipped like Larry's Outrage with a solid transom and brackets, the deck area would even be bigger.
On the downside of the Revenge, was that you felt a harder ride, being another four feet towards the bow.
Downside to either Cuddy model is that the cabin is _small_. Minimal headroom.
A good friend (has to be to do this...) loaned me his 25 Revenge W/T (Walk-Through)
Big, BIG difference in cabin. Keep in mind that the hull (everything below the rub rail) is the same hull. I thought the sliding ladder contraption and bow rails would be a pain, but found it well designed. Also the bow has an anchor locker. With the cuddy, we mounted the anchors on cleats up forward, with only a line locker down below. Nice.
Downside (if it applys to your situation) was that it's a heaver rig.
Enough room to store a weeks worth of supplies, food, clothes with no problem.
Walts is equipped with twin 150's, and she skates.
Best - Don
Ed Stone posted 09-19-2001 09:20 PM ET (US)
I like the looks of the 27' Offshore with
With the factory bracket. It looks to be
basic as far as the cabin goes.
Did you need the stove and fridge in your
cuddy? How's about a enclosed bathroom?
Are you going to trailer the vessel?
I also like the early walkaround 25 & 27
Whalers.
Good luck!
Ed Stone
MCano posted 09-19-2001 09:36 PM ET (US)
hey,
I have owned my 1996, 22 Outrage Cuddy for 13 years (bought it new in 88). Its much smaller than 25's discussed above. The cabin really only accomodates sleeping, the use of the porta-potti, and for stoage of gear that you don't want to get wet. Sometimes I wish I had a 25 or even a 27 cuddy. However, since I rarely go on overnight trips, it has been a great boat for me. Good Luck
JFM posted 09-20-2001 09:00 AM ET (US)
Looking at whaler lit. and web-site. the 28 or 295 conquest look like it would fit all our needs. There are 2 options in the lit. that I don't understand. 1)What is reverse cycle air-conditioning? 2) where is the generator mounted? Do any of the older model cuddies have air or can it be added? Thanks in advance. Jay
jim posted 09-20-2001 01:45 PM ET (US)
reverse cycle air conditioning is a heat pump
dfmcintyre posted 09-20-2001 04:10 PM ET (US)
Jay -
You might be able to find a place to mount a a/c unit in the 25 w/t, but not the 25 cuddy series.
A 27 should be able to handle an a/c unit also.
Most marine a/c units use water through a small radiator to convert warm air to cool air. Some of the better units also have a small electrical heat coil that will heat the air in the cold months. Some units will also have a shunt from the engine cooling system, to provide heat when underway.
The generator, (and I'm guessing here) is probably mounted between the engines, down in the engine compartment.
Don
Ed Stone posted 09-23-2001 08:42 PM ET (US)
The generators are mounted under the floor
along with the ac units. Reversable cycle would be cold or hot air.I think the ac unit
is a option on the 26 conquest,28 conquest,
28 outrage.check out the layout of the 28
outrage with the cruise package.
good luck!
Ed Stone
JFM posted 09-24-2001 10:59 AM ET (US)
Ed, I looked in to the 28' Conquest and it is cost prohibitive even used. That '92 Revenge '25 walk through on page 3 of Catera looks nice. Does anyone know if air cond was an option or can be added? Thanks, Jay
bigz posted 09-24-2001 12:04 PM ET (US)
Whaler relates 90% of the boats sold with air and generators in the early/mid 90's caused them nothing but headaches, not sure about the Conquest line now. Location, impact and corrison were the culprits.
The Conquest 26 and 28 are considered full cabins, the older 27 cabin models usually had after market air installed down south.
The 27 center console cuddy has room for an air conditioner just aft of the cuddy under the deck sole forward of the center console. Easy to direct duct into the cuddy area and there is a bilge to drain the condensation in the same location (a 5600 Btu would work fine). Though your limited to a porta-potty (sp) and a twin V-berths. You also would need to install a shore power hook up and panel since these were not generally found on the cuddy.
Also the 90's WA you could fit air and was offered as an option.
andygere posted 09-24-2001 01:54 PM ET (US)
Was the Outrage Cuddy ever offered on the 20' hull? Also, what is the consensus on Sea Drive equipped Whalers? Rebuild and run the Sea Drive or convert to an Armstrong Bracket? Any ballpark cost estimates on converting to the bracket (single or twin, w/o power)?
jimh posted 09-25-2001 05:38 PM ET (US)
I was thinking (not too seriously) about a boat with a SeaDrive and what it would take to convert it. I came up with this list:
--Remove SeaDrive, fill holes, refinish, etc., == $1,000
--Armstrong Bracket (or similar) buy and intall == $2,500 - 4,000
--Repower with twin modern outboards
== $12,000 - 16,000 (!!)
When I came to the conclusion that I would be facing about a year of work, and about $25,000 invested, I decided it was too much of a project.
andygere posted 09-26-2001 12:12 PM ET (US)
Jim,
Your analysis confirms what I had thought: It's a cost prohibitive project when you factor in the purchase price for the boat. There's a very clean 22 Outrage Cuddy that I see around my harbor from time to time. I've spoken to the owner and he's indicated he may be ready to sell the boat and move up to something bigger, but unfortunately it's powered by a 175 hp Sea Drive. Still, I can't help dreaming about it sitting in my slip with a fresh pair of 100's clipped to a beefy bracket behind that full transom, fit out with gleaming oiled teak hatches and gunwale boards.....
jimh posted 09-26-2001 02:08 PM ET (US)
I happened to see a non-Whaler boat with a full transom and a SeaDrive at the boat ramp a week ago. In the water the SeaDrive looked rather nice.
Later I saw the boat on the trailer.Wow! The SeaDrive in the fully tilted-up position for trailering is an amazing thing to behold. The height to which the powerhead raises and the length of the cantilevered weight is most impressive--actually almost unimaginable to tow the thing in that state.
The darn powerhead was many feet behind and above the boat's transom and gunwale. It was scary to see that much weight hanging so far from the back of the boat.
--jimh
lhg posted 09-26-2001 03:46 PM ET (US)
Sea Drives are a basically worthless dead animal. Even OMC, before they went under, stopped supporting parts for the Sea Drive mechanism. Because the engines are simply Johnson/Evinrude, they can still be repaired with whatever Bombardier is supporting, but not the rest unless used parts can be found. For a boat that has these, it's a "drive it until it drops" situation only. For anyone looking at a Whaler with these installed, pay only your perceived value for the boat, and assume a full repowering as part of your purchase comparisons.
There is only one good aspect to the Sea Drive Whalers. It's a chance to get a rare full transom model for a low price, and without a Whaler Drive, giving you a chance to set up your own power situation, with a bracket of your choice. But one of these could never be considered a bargain hunter's special. There's a lot of time, work and expense to make one of these conversions, especially with dual power. I should know, I did it, but mine was ordered from the factory new as a "Sea Drive Blank", meaning completely finished Full Transom, but with nothing else, not even lifting eyes.
andygere posted 09-26-2001 04:48 PM ET (US)
Larry,
I agree that that the prospect of a vintage full transom Outrage is appealing, but I suspect most sellers will try to get more than "hull only" dollars for a Sea Drive equipped Whaler. Unless the price is really rock bottom, it would probably make more sense to look for similar hull with the standard outboard transom. There's a guy in Santa Cruz with a 27 Full Cabin and twin Sea Drives. He's always working on them, and last time I saw him he told me he plans to yank them and intall an Armstrong.

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Author	Topic: What is your favorite Whaler with Cuddy?
JFM	posted 09-19-2001 04:20 PM ET (US) I have just sold my 1969 Chris Craft Roamer 38' to a guy who has been after me for a long time. I kept it on the Ohio River for the past 18 years. I'll be in the market for a smaller cuddy. The only boats I know well are Chris Craft, SeaRay, and now Tiara(just went on a fishing trip on a 43'Open). When I purchased my 2000 Montauk, I looked at a 23' Conquest but I don't think that would be big enough and I don't want to buy new. Is there models between the 23' Conquest and the 35' Defiance(also don't and can't buy one new) that I shoud consider. Regards, Jay
dfmcintyre	posted 09-19-2001 07:37 PM ET (US) Jay - I'll take a shot at this one. I've used (read travelled) three different "cabin" models over the years We owned a 25' Revenge Cuddy for about 10 years. That cuddy is the same size as the 25' Outrage Cuddy. A good friend of mine bought a sister ship to mine, that was an Outrage. What I liked about mine over the Outrage, was the absolutely_huge_no_questions_asked deck area behind the seats. I had a sterndrive, and if it was equipped like Larry's Outrage with a solid transom and brackets, the deck area would even be bigger. On the downside of the Revenge, was that you felt a harder ride, being another four feet towards the bow. Downside to either Cuddy model is that the cabin is _small_. Minimal headroom. A good friend (has to be to do this...) loaned me his 25 Revenge W/T (Walk-Through) Big, BIG difference in cabin. Keep in mind that the hull (everything below the rub rail) is the same hull. I thought the sliding ladder contraption and bow rails would be a pain, but found it well designed. Also the bow has an anchor locker. With the cuddy, we mounted the anchors on cleats up forward, with only a line locker down below. Nice. Downside (if it applys to your situation) was that it's a heaver rig. Enough room to store a weeks worth of supplies, food, clothes with no problem. Walts is equipped with twin 150's, and she skates. Best - Don
Ed Stone	posted 09-19-2001 09:20 PM ET (US) I like the looks of the 27' Offshore with With the factory bracket. It looks to be basic as far as the cabin goes. Did you need the stove and fridge in your cuddy? How's about a enclosed bathroom? Are you going to trailer the vessel? I also like the early walkaround 25 & 27 Whalers. Good luck! Ed Stone
MCano	posted 09-19-2001 09:36 PM ET (US) hey, I have owned my 1996, 22 Outrage Cuddy for 13 years (bought it new in 88). Its much smaller than 25's discussed above. The cabin really only accomodates sleeping, the use of the porta-potti, and for stoage of gear that you don't want to get wet. Sometimes I wish I had a 25 or even a 27 cuddy. However, since I rarely go on overnight trips, it has been a great boat for me. Good Luck
JFM	posted 09-20-2001 09:00 AM ET (US) Looking at whaler lit. and web-site. the 28 or 295 conquest look like it would fit all our needs. There are 2 options in the lit. that I don't understand. 1)What is reverse cycle air-conditioning? 2) where is the generator mounted? Do any of the older model cuddies have air or can it be added? Thanks in advance. Jay
jim	posted 09-20-2001 01:45 PM ET (US) reverse cycle air conditioning is a heat pump
dfmcintyre	posted 09-20-2001 04:10 PM ET (US) Jay - You might be able to find a place to mount a a/c unit in the 25 w/t, but not the 25 cuddy series. A 27 should be able to handle an a/c unit also. Most marine a/c units use water through a small radiator to convert warm air to cool air. Some of the better units also have a small electrical heat coil that will heat the air in the cold months. Some units will also have a shunt from the engine cooling system, to provide heat when underway. The generator, (and I'm guessing here) is probably mounted between the engines, down in the engine compartment. Don
Ed Stone	posted 09-23-2001 08:42 PM ET (US) The generators are mounted under the floor along with the ac units. Reversable cycle would be cold or hot air.I think the ac unit is a option on the 26 conquest,28 conquest, 28 outrage.check out the layout of the 28 outrage with the cruise package. good luck! Ed Stone
JFM	posted 09-24-2001 10:59 AM ET (US) Ed, I looked in to the 28' Conquest and it is cost prohibitive even used. That '92 Revenge '25 walk through on page 3 of Catera looks nice. Does anyone know if air cond was an option or can be added? Thanks, Jay
bigz	posted 09-24-2001 12:04 PM ET (US) Whaler relates 90% of the boats sold with air and generators in the early/mid 90's caused them nothing but headaches, not sure about the Conquest line now. Location, impact and corrison were the culprits. The Conquest 26 and 28 are considered full cabins, the older 27 cabin models usually had after market air installed down south. The 27 center console cuddy has room for an air conditioner just aft of the cuddy under the deck sole forward of the center console. Easy to direct duct into the cuddy area and there is a bilge to drain the condensation in the same location (a 5600 Btu would work fine). Though your limited to a porta-potty (sp) and a twin V-berths. You also would need to install a shore power hook up and panel since these were not generally found on the cuddy. Also the 90's WA you could fit air and was offered as an option.
andygere	posted 09-24-2001 01:54 PM ET (US) Was the Outrage Cuddy ever offered on the 20' hull? Also, what is the consensus on Sea Drive equipped Whalers? Rebuild and run the Sea Drive or convert to an Armstrong Bracket? Any ballpark cost estimates on converting to the bracket (single or twin, w/o power)?
jimh	posted 09-25-2001 05:38 PM ET (US) I was thinking (not too seriously) about a boat with a SeaDrive and what it would take to convert it. I came up with this list: --Remove SeaDrive, fill holes, refinish, etc., == $1,000 --Armstrong Bracket (or similar) buy and intall == $2,500 - 4,000 --Repower with twin modern outboards == $12,000 - 16,000 (!!) When I came to the conclusion that I would be facing about a year of work, and about $25,000 invested, I decided it was too much of a project.
andygere	posted 09-26-2001 12:12 PM ET (US) Jim, Your analysis confirms what I had thought: It's a cost prohibitive project when you factor in the purchase price for the boat. There's a very clean 22 Outrage Cuddy that I see around my harbor from time to time. I've spoken to the owner and he's indicated he may be ready to sell the boat and move up to something bigger, but unfortunately it's powered by a 175 hp Sea Drive. Still, I can't help dreaming about it sitting in my slip with a fresh pair of 100's clipped to a beefy bracket behind that full transom, fit out with gleaming oiled teak hatches and gunwale boards.....
jimh	posted 09-26-2001 02:08 PM ET (US) I happened to see a non-Whaler boat with a full transom and a SeaDrive at the boat ramp a week ago. In the water the SeaDrive looked rather nice. Later I saw the boat on the trailer.Wow! The SeaDrive in the fully tilted-up position for trailering is an amazing thing to behold. The height to which the powerhead raises and the length of the cantilevered weight is most impressive--actually almost unimaginable to tow the thing in that state. The darn powerhead was many feet behind and above the boat's transom and gunwale. It was scary to see that much weight hanging so far from the back of the boat. --jimh
lhg	posted 09-26-2001 03:46 PM ET (US) Sea Drives are a basically worthless dead animal. Even OMC, before they went under, stopped supporting parts for the Sea Drive mechanism. Because the engines are simply Johnson/Evinrude, they can still be repaired with whatever Bombardier is supporting, but not the rest unless used parts can be found. For a boat that has these, it's a "drive it until it drops" situation only. For anyone looking at a Whaler with these installed, pay only your perceived value for the boat, and assume a full repowering as part of your purchase comparisons. There is only one good aspect to the Sea Drive Whalers. It's a chance to get a rare full transom model for a low price, and without a Whaler Drive, giving you a chance to set up your own power situation, with a bracket of your choice. But one of these could never be considered a bargain hunter's special. There's a lot of time, work and expense to make one of these conversions, especially with dual power. I should know, I did it, but mine was ordered from the factory new as a "Sea Drive Blank", meaning completely finished Full Transom, but with nothing else, not even lifting eyes.
andygere	posted 09-26-2001 04:48 PM ET (US) Larry, I agree that that the prospect of a vintage full transom Outrage is appealing, but I suspect most sellers will try to get more than "hull only" dollars for a Sea Drive equipped Whaler. Unless the price is really rock bottom, it would probably make more sense to look for similar hull with the standard outboard transom. There's a guy in Santa Cruz with a 27 Full Cabin and twin Sea Drives. He's always working on them, and last time I saw him he told me he plans to yank them and intall an Armstrong.