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Author Topic:   new Montauk
grizzly posted 10-31-2001 09:55 AM ET (US)   Profile for grizzly  
In my continuing quest to purchase a Whaler, I have been talking to a Whaler dealer about a new 2001 Montauk he has in stock. It has neither engine nor trailer, which is fine with me because I prefer to rig myself.

The boat is equipped with the factory options of swim ladder, rear stern seat, cooler seat, bow cushion, electric horn, Mercury pre-rig (I don't think the last two are options).

Dealer says the list price is $15,300(approx.) and is willing to sell for a 10% discount off that, about $14,000. (all prices exclude tax). Refuses to go lower on the price.

Is this a good price? Anyone know how much other dealers are discounting new, non-current Montauks around the country?

JFM posted 10-31-2001 10:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
In August I was looking new. The best price I found was from Marine Max, Cleveland, 2001 Montauk with 90 merc 2 stroke ocean series, bimini, comfort pkg. and galv trailer for $20,200.00 Also, Portage Entry, Port Clinton, Ohio, 2000 Montauk 90 yamaha 2 stroke, rear seat, galv. trailer, $20,600. I didn't see anything unrigged. Regards, Jay
TightPenny posted 10-31-2001 10:26 AM ET (US)     Profile for TightPenny  Send Email to TightPenny     
I took delivery of my new 2000 Montauk in April 2000.

I was able to order it unrigged (last year that that option was available). I used my existing engine. She came with the comfort package and bilge pump as installed options. My cost was $11,872 including NJ Tax.

It looks like it got more expensive, especially since you now have have the Mercury pre-rig, which would not have worked well with my Johnson.

Bigshot posted 10-31-2001 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Break it down. $14k boat. 1500 trailer. 5000 engine and prop. $200 bimini. $20,700. Not worth rigging yourself. I'd go find a package deal.
JBCornwell posted 10-31-2001 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for JBCornwell  Send Email to JBCornwell     
Hi, guys. Hey Bigshot. $200 Bimini? Boy are you dreaming! Try $700. Mills quotes it at $670.

Red sky at night. . .
JB :)

andygere posted 10-31-2001 05:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Asking price at the San Francisco Boat show this spring for a new Montauk with a 90 4 stroke Merc., no swim ladder or stern seat (about a $1200 item)and trailer was $23k plus tax. If you put a Merc on it to take advantage of the pre-rig, you may be able to do quite well on price. If you prefer to put a different brand motor on it, I'd say it's the way to go. If you come to the dealer ready to buy (especially now in the slow season) he may actually take less than the $14k quoted. It would be worthwhile to negotiate a price on an engine and trailer to give you a good idea of your total cost.
GAwhale posted 10-31-2001 06:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for GAwhale  Send Email to GAwhale     
My 2001 Montauk with 90 merc 2 stroke ocean series, bimini, comfort package, and aluminum trailer was priced at $21,995.

I bought at the Atlanta Boat Show this past January for $20,695.

dscew posted 10-31-2001 07:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for dscew    
I don't think a quoted price between 14 and 15k is too bad. I used to sell Whalers, and there were very few discounts offered, even end-of-season ones. The pre-rig thing is a drag if you want a Johnson or Yammy, but most motor manufacturers have gotten into this in order to gain market share. Also, the options you listed have some hefty prices, so I can't imagine you'd do much better. Can't be alot of margin left in that one!
dgp posted 10-31-2001 07:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for dgp  Send Email to dgp     
I'm curious about a 2001 model without engine. That year BW implemented policy of no engine delete. Have you seen the boat? Did he remove the engine as shipped from the factory?
Only reason I got my '01 less engine is because I ordered in May before July model year changeover and even then the BW rep had to shuck-n-jive with the factory to get the boat.
Dick posted 10-31-2001 08:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for Dick  Send Email to Dick     
grizzly

I bought my 99 Montauk at cost, when I worked for the dealer. That price of $14,000 for a Montauk set up as you describe is a steal.

As far as the pre rig is concerned, if you are going to install anything other than a Merc on it be prepared to spend some more $$ to replace the control cables, throttle/shift control and install the new wiring harness/ignition switch assembly.

Pre rig doesn't mean that the dealer has to order the boat with the engine installed, but he does have to order an engine with the boat and it will come with Merc controls installed. Most dealers do order with the engine installed as it cuts down on their rigging time.

Macman posted 10-31-2001 09:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Macman  Send Email to Macman     
I have to wonder about the price of a new Montauk. I love mine (95), but, for the money that you guys are talking about, there is a wealth of choices. Before I spent 20+k on a Montauk, I would explore the used market for a nice 22 Outrage.
Just my opinion.
grizzly posted 10-31-2001 10:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for grizzly    
Thanks for the replies. I have not seen the boat, only talked to the dealer by phone. Dealer claims no holes drilled in transom, so I don't see how he could have removed an engine installed at the factory.

I called a BW dealer in Florida today and was quoted a price of $19,000 for a 2002 Montauk with no options and with the "engine delete" option! I assume that is a retail price I was quoted with no discount. Have the retail prices jumped that much in a year?

I am kind of fond of Mercury outboards, so I would lean towards installing one. Is it really easy to install if using a Merc engine? With the Merc pre-rig, do you just bolt the engine to the transom (drilling holes where necessary), connect the throttle and steering and go?

jimh posted 10-31-2001 11:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I like your description of the rigging process, "you just bolt the engine to the transom... connect the throttle and steering and go."

That is probably how they really do do it a the dealer! I have a vision...

"Hey Billy-Bob, you finished with that Whaler riggin'?"

"Yup," says Billy-Bob as he uses big hammer to force engine mounting bolts through slightly crooked holes he just drilled three inches off-centerline in the transom, "let's go get some lunch."

Down at the Whaler Factory, I see nice experienced workers in white jump suits. They descend on a new Montauk; with gleaming stainless-steel templates they mark the transom holes. With ultra-sharp titanium drills in air-driven tools they drill precise and true holes exactly where they belong for the engine they're about to mount. A conveyor belt brings the engine to the boat; a robotic arm positions it exactly in line with the holes. The bolts are inserted. They're torqued to exact tolerance...well, may be I have exagerated a bit.

Now when you do this yourself, it will take most of the weekend, you'll worry yourself sick before taking the drill to that virgin transom, and as soon as you hit the water you'll decide you should have moved the engine up one more hole.

--jimh

JFM posted 11-01-2001 08:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Grizzly, I don't know where your located, but you may want to call Marine Max in Cleveland, Ohio. They were very hungry for a sale. They claimed the $20,200 was below their cost, but they needed to move some boats. I have heard a rumor that they are in financial trouble. Regards, Jay
JFM posted 11-01-2001 09:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Grizzly, I think there are Marine Max dealers in Fla.. Maybe their hungry too. Jay
ledfoot posted 11-01-2001 09:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for ledfoot  Send Email to ledfoot     
Hey Jim, I think you just descibed how my 225 Evinrude must have been installed at Land's End Marina in SE Michigan! I bought the 21' Walkaround from the original owner, and it was still stored at the original selling dealer; after the (admittedly) rushed purchase I realized that the motor had about a 5 degree lean to starboard, causing the wheel to pull slightly. I had it repaired by a trusted mechanic, who informed me that the motor had never been off the boat, and thus had been listing for all of !!!9 YEARS!!! The mechanic had to re-drill the mounting holes and fill the old ones with dowels & epoxy. The boat picked up 500 rpm's and 5 mph. So much for dealer installation...


by the way, one mounting bolt on the port side was "z" shaped from the torque (and from the drag of the crooked motor?)

Bigshot posted 11-01-2001 02:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
JB this is FL. I can get sunbrella tops all day long for $169. granted they have alum frames, not SS but on a 40mph boat you do not need SS. Every summer the company sells the ones nobody picked up or mistakes. I got 2 solid SS bimini with sunbrella tops for $100 each, brand new. They are like $800 ea new. Got to love FL:)
Bigshot posted 11-01-2001 02:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
Ps that included matching boot covers.
88 Montauk posted 11-01-2001 02:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for 88 Montauk  Send Email to 88 Montauk     
Call me a die hard, but buy a used Montauk already rigged and you could put a brand new outboard on it. Total price would probably be under $14K. I live in coastal SC where there is no shortage of Whalers though.
dscew posted 11-01-2001 07:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for dscew    
I wouldn't buy a boat of any kind from a MarineMax. Worst ripoff going. I know from personal experience. If they are in financial trouble, I'm not surprised. Would be great to see them go under so we could return to dealers with personality. My humble opinion...
whalernut posted 11-01-2001 08:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalernut  Send Email to whalernut     
I agreem those Marine Max dealers suck! They are slick-haired salesmen with very little or no knowledge of Whalers. But hey they know their Sea Rays!! I went there once in Cleveland,OH. and never again, I hope they go out of business. Keep talking to Portage Entry Marine, they are an old line Whaler dealer!! They even had some very nice used Whalers there a couple of years ago! Let`s get back to small Whaler knwedgeable dealers!! Then let`s get back to Classic Whaler building in Rockland,Mass. Regards-Jack Graner.
grizzly posted 11-01-2001 10:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for grizzly    
jimh,

I don't know if your comments were tinged with sarcasm, but your post contains the sort of information which is of interest to me. Obviously, it is critical to place the engine correctly on the transom.

Now, the question is: Can this be done outside the BW factory? If so, by whom? Are the stainless steel templates available at BW dealers or elsewhere?

jimh posted 11-01-2001 11:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I guess I did exaggerate a bit...

I don't know if there are really any stainless steel templates at the factory; I made that up. Poetic license. I said "Down at the factory I see...." as in "Looking into my crystal ball I see..."

I was just trying to dramatize what has been an oft-mentioned trend, that "the dealer" is not always the Holy Grail of technique when it comes to installing marine hardware.

Jeff cited the case with his boat, where "the dealer" installed the engine on a slant!

Now, as for rigging it yourself, it is entirely likely you will be able to do a super job, but it will take more work than you might think, based on how you described it in your initial post.

Also, in rigging the engine on the transom you'll need some way to hold it up while rigging. These days most engines--even mid-range horsepower--weigh over 300-lbs. Unless you happen to have a chain fall rigged in the ceiling of your 10-foot high garage, you'll probably need to rent something to be able to lift that engine onto the transom.

At the factory I would assume they have some templates and fixtures to make this process happen quickly and with repeatable accuracy.

In your driveway you'll have to use careful measurements and a rented lift to get the engine on the transom.

JFM posted 11-02-2001 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
You all are correct about the treatment received from Marine Max. The price qouted ended with where do we have to be to sell you a boat? It was the old "used car" approach. The folks at Portage Entry were the kind of dealer I would like to do business with. However, I don't live by either one, and didn't buy from either one. Portage Entry's parking lot was even a better place to do business! Regards, Jay

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