Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
Difference Between Revenge and Outrage Cuddy
|Author||Topic: Difference Between Revenge and Outrage Cuddy|
posted 11-01-2001 03:10 PM ET (US)
Sorry for so many question, but we are trying to narrow down the model we prefer. Is the cuddy on the 22- or 25-Outrage Cuddy really usable, or are they suited more for only changing, etc.? How does the cabin of the Revenge stack up aginst the Cuddy of the Outrage?
Thanks again, Ron
posted 11-01-2001 07:21 PM ET (US)
In the case of a 22-Revenge or 20-Revenge (same size cabins), the berths are quite long and make comfortable sleeping. The 25-Revenge is not really much (if any) larger. The headroom is adequete when you are sitting on the berth, otherwise you are leaning over when below deck.
Often there is a porta-potti located between the vee-berths in the cabin.
Unfortunately, I don't have any images of the interior of any of these models. I'll have to work on that. If anyone happens to have a few good views of the cabin of either the Revenge or an Outrage Cuddy, I would be glad to post them on the website.
Besides the cabin consideration, the Revenge Walk-Through model makes very good use of the forward deck space. It is easy to reach the foredeck via the sliding ladder in the companionway, and the deck railing is very handy and gives good support to someone going on the deck. You could fish or cast from the deck of a Revenge very easily, but it would be hard to land a big fish from there.
The Outrage Cuddy foredeck does not seem as friendly to access, but I may be wrong about that. Perhaps some Cuddy owners will join the discussion.
posted 11-01-2001 08:19 PM ET (US)
I own an 86' 22 FT Outrage Cuddy.
The cabin is useable for storing items in a secure/dry location and for sleeping. It is also where the porta-poti is located and used. You can go into the cabin to get out of the weather. However, it is not suitable for long stays, too cramped and no views. If youíre not a tall person, you can sit-up at entrance part of the cuddy, but not at the bow end. It is better to invest in a bimini top with all-around side curtains to go with the cuddy cabin. This is what I plan to do next year. Currently I only have the front curtain, which helps cut down some of the wind when anchored, but falls well short of the protection of an all-around system.
As for the foredeck. You can access this area from within the cabin via the sun-hatch. However, this is not the most convenient way, unless you have a bimini top with an all-around side curtain setup, which can (depending on its design) block access from the cockpit. When no front and side curtains are in place, the fastest and easiest way to access the foredeck is to step on the gunwhale and up you go. Warning, on rough seas you do run the risk of falling overboard if you are not careful. The foredeck can be used for sunbathing and catching a nap. You can fish from the foredeck, but not from a standing position if the swells or wind chop picks up. If your using live bait, you will get tired of hopping back down to the cockpit to retrieve more bait. I have also used the foredeck to stow my inflatable, a 10 foot inflatable fits well on the foredeck. However, donít forget to secure before getting under way!
I canít think of anything else to add.
So, Good Luck
posted 11-01-2001 09:20 PM ET (US)
I guess my real question is which stlye has a more useable cabin the cuddy or revenge
posted 11-02-2001 07:42 AM ET (US)
Ron- A couple years ago I went thru some of your same questions. Here's my take on the Outrage, Outrage with cuddy and Revenge. First, I saw numbers of them all. The Revenge cuddy is huge by comparison to the Outrage Cuddy. It is perfect for camping or traveling about the Great Lakes etc. See some of the wonderful pictures on this site. The problem is the big cabin is dedicated and eats up deck space. If you are really going to use the cabin it's a fine boat but if the space is going to be dead a good deal of the time you might want to consider the smaller cuddy of the Outrage. From the offshore fishing perspective the Outrage with cuddy has it all over the Revenge. With a small cuddy the Outrage remains a fine offshore boat- you can fight the fish 360. A final thought is the option of building an auxiliary canvas cover set up in the front of a standard Outrage. We call these dodgers or spray covers. They can be simple or quite elaborate. All fold forward laying along the bow "gum ridge." They often leak and do not afford the ladies the protection of a real cuddy/cabin. My .03 David
posted 11-02-2001 08:33 AM ET (US)
The cabin of a Revenge has two opening side ports and two opening top hatches. These reduce the potential for claustrophobia when below.
posted 11-02-2001 11:32 AM ET (US)
I am finding this a very interesting thread, because this discussion is the very subject of my latest case of threefootitis. Actually, if I do the math, it's fivefootitis. Last weekend, I was pleased to see that a Revenge 22 is berthed in the same slip size that I currently occupy. The official max overall length is supposed to be 22 feet, but I'm sure this boat with a standard outboard transom is at least a foot longer. Anyone know the true measured lenth, including outboard, excluding pulpit? Perhaps if the boat is called a 22, the harbormaster doesn't bother to measure.
One other question. The Revenge 22 W/T in my marina is set up with a very recent 150 hp Oceanrunner. Would this be somewhat marginal in terms of holeshot and even top end performance? Most 22's I've seen have 200+.
posted 11-02-2001 11:52 AM ET (US)
22'3" LOA -- outboard/s add about a foot or so aft on a standard transom (a third or more of the cowl is over the transom well) -- so your marina is correct she is classed as a 22' boat. My experience is the marinas usually don't add length for the outboards unless say it was a Whaler drive model ---
Max hp 240 hp -- the min. to plane with a light load 85 hp --- the 150 hp would be plenty I think -- Z
posted 11-02-2001 02:04 PM ET (US)
I've got a 22 Revenge W/T (with bow pulpit, LOA with pulpit is about 24') pushed by a 225 Yamaha. I think that the lowest I'd go on an engine for the 22 Revenge is 200. It's not that the 150 can't push the 22 fairly well, its that it will be working hard to do it. I believe that my ideal cruising speed for the Revenge hull is between 25 and 30 mph (WOT max is about 44-45 with 225). My ideal cruising speed was determined by going as fast as possible without giving up seat of the pants comfort. Incidentally, in the crusing range, the 225 runs between 3400 and 3900 which just happens to be in the most efficient rpm range for the 225. Assuming that my ideal cruising speed is independent of horsepower on the stern, I would think the 150 should work much harder to achieve my ideal cruising speed. Since engine life of an outboard is directly proportional to how hard it works on average, I would expect a 150 not to last as long as a 225 assuming I would operate both in the ideal cruising range. Thus, I would vote for a 200 as a reasonable minimum for the 22 Revenge and I think others agree, which is why you see most with a 200+.
Tying back to the topic, after having the Revenge for a full season now and having been out in very windy sub 50 temps with the flying and full curtain enclosure fully deployed, I think I would prefer the W/T Revenge over the Outrage Cuddy because it gives a little added weather protection due to the presence of the windshield and the added ability get to the open bow relatively easily with the enclosure deployed. I believe that both cabins offer 7' V berths. I suspect that there really is little difference between the interior Revenge and Cuddy although the companion way in the Revenge is thicker due to the bulk heads and space to hide the neat sliding ladder system. Needless to say, I'm quite pleased with the performance of the 22 Revenge, although it isn't as sporty as my old 18 Outrage (I think that's still my favorite Whaler).
posted 11-02-2001 02:54 PM ET (US)
Peter, the Outrage cuddy 25 is considerably smaller than the Revenge 22 cabin. Based on the layouts appears from 20 to 25% smaller. Simple reason forward of the cc the space is open for the companion way into the cuddy in the 22 Revenge the helm is built up and that space is now part of the cabin.
On the 25 there is a ladder to reach the fore deck mounted on the starboard side. The cuddy has two aft facing opening ports each side of the companion way and the foreword clear opening hatch, so it is not really claustrophobic
The 25 cc cuddy can use the Mills full canvas system enclosing from the aft cuddy edge with a full windshield, then to storm panels on both sides completed with an aft panel center fixed at the leaning post with zippered openings on either side to the aft deck -- draw back can't use windshield wipers, if equipped, as you could on the Revenge in snotty weather. Also a full canvas system on the 25 OR cuddy will cost you I guess twice what a full canvas set on the Revenge would and that ain't chicken feed. I haven't checked specifically, I know the 27 cccuddy full canvas almost identical set up to the 25 cccuddy except a bit more material and stainless is well over $3000!
Andy, Peter is probably correct a 200 hp might prove out better than a 150hp for overall performance. Ask the owners what they think.
General practice or at least when things were ethical pulpits were never used in LOA measurements. However brackets were used in measurement if they were located on the water.
ron3637, you hit the nail on the head -- yes in all practical terms the cuddy arrangement is as you mentioned -- changing, using the head, secure storage, maybe a quick snooze, and to lock up the kids when they start becoming obnoxious --- just kidding --- chuckle --- the Revenge cabin would let you have more comfort and be fine for a weekend on board without that cramped feeling --
posted 11-02-2001 03:07 PM ET (US)
My dad and I have taken several overnight trips on our 22' revenge and find the sleeping quarters very comfortable. Our cockpit is also able to be fully enclosed since we have camper canvas side curtains and bimini. This keeps the morning dew out. We have also went below when we were caught in a t-storm, 4 of use. It was cozy, but very functional.
ps. she's still forsale :)
posted 11-02-2001 05:11 PM ET (US)
Great info guys! Any thoughts on the relative differences between the center helm vs. side helm positions? I really like the visibility and ride from the center console on my Montauk. I also like the choice between sitting and standing. Can the Revenge be piloted from a standing position? Is it more difficult to dock? When I fish by myself, I like being able to handle the boat and a fishing rod at the same time, especially when casting plugs. It seems like the Revenge doesn't permit this. Any thoughts?
posted 11-02-2001 07:26 PM ET (US)
My 22 Outrage Cuddy is powered by a Yamaha 200.
I donít believe a 150 will perform well when I'm topped off with a full tank of gas (120 gal), 3 other fisherpersons, the weight of my SS radar arch, 9.9 kicker, stern seat, Igloo seat setup, live bait well, and all the other junk (gear) that I have accumulated over the years. So, I would go with 200 as a minimum. If the 22 Revenge is heavier (help me here) then I would opt for the 225.
PS: In a large rolling following sea, its handy to have the extra power when climbing the backside! However, donít forget to back off at the crest LOL.
Also, I experienced better performance with my new 1999 prop when compared to my original 1988 standard issue.
posted 11-02-2001 08:05 PM ET (US)
Yes, the Revenge can be piloted standing up or sitting down. I think the Revenge is harder to dock when there is a wind because the cabin superstructure and windshield provide more surfaces for the wind push on. I agree, I like the visibility of the center console and there's no question that the center console is the better set up for fishing.
Bigz, I'm surprised that the 25 Cuddy has a smaller cabin than a 22 Revenge. I've been under the impression that the Outrage Cuddys have 7' berths which is all that the Revenge has. So going from the rear of the berths forward, the people inhabitable part of the cabins should be about the same size. The extra space that you refer to on the Revenge built up for the helm isn't inhabitable space and really isn't all that usable because the helm takes up most of it on the starboard side and the port side stores the sliding ladder.
posted 11-03-2001 05:45 AM ET (US)
I would agree with the several comments made about powering a 22 Revenge with 150 HP. That combination is workable, but you will notice quite a difference in performance when the boat is loaded heavily compared to very light loads.
Most of the time we operate the helm on the Revenge while standing. When standing you look over the top of the glass windshield. When sitting you look through the glasss windshield.
The fixed glass windshield has opening side vents (like cars used to have), and these are handy to get ventilation when the canvas is up.
The space under the helm console is mostly taken by the teak cabinet and is not usable from the cabin. The space under the starboard side console is needed for the sliding ladder (as someone pointed out) and this prevents it from being used for much. You might be able to store something in there, but you'd have to secure it so it did not get in the way of the sliding ladder.
The sliding ladder is one of the neatest details on the boat, by the way, and it is very functional.
posted 11-03-2001 06:03 AM ET (US)
Another observation on the Revenge:
With the Mills Flying Top there is a center portion that zips up and rolls out of the way. The position of the front of the top is such that when you walk up the companionway sliding ladder to the foredeck your head clears the Flying Top just perfectly.
This is one of those things about the Mills Canvas: it really is well designed to fit the boat. When we first saw the Flying Top it appeared to be a bit "small", but in actual use it provides excellent shelter and fits the boat just right.
The zippered window in the canvas also lets you get air flow into the cockpit without having to take the windshield down completely. I don't know if the windshields on the Outrage canvas can do that.
posted 11-03-2001 11:06 AM ET (US)
Here is a view of the cabin of a Revenge with callouts to show the details.
The way in which Whaler turned the Outrage into the Revenge makes me wonder if they planned this into the design of the Outrage well in advance or if it was a wonderful, serendipitous coincidence that the molding of the Outrage interior could be so well adapted to a cabin boat.
posted 12-16-2001 05:25 PM ET (US)
More details of the REVENGE model can be found in a recent CETACEA article:
In the works is a CETACEA article focusing on the Outrage Cuddy model; stay tuned.
posted 12-16-2001 05:44 PM ET (US)
Ron- There's a 22' OR cutty. I believe '88, just up for sale at Port Canaveral FLA. If you are really interested call Sunrise Marina at the Port and ask someone about the boat. The owner is asking $18,500. DLR
posted 12-16-2001 05:52 PM ET (US)
I have the 88 22 Revenge w/175 OceanPro. It is more than sufficient. Prior I had twin 120's and would take water over the transom and the boat would drift stern first. This summer I changed props from a 17X15 to a 15X151/2 and made quite a difference in RPM and gas consumption. Top spped is about 35 and is satisfactory.
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.