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  22-Outrage: Classic -vs- Modern

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Author Topic:   22-Outrage: Classic -vs- Modern
ron3637 posted 11-02-2001 03:27 PM ET (US)   Profile for ron3637   Send Email to ron3637  
What are the primary differences between the classic 22-Outrage and its current rendition? If you have a preferce please let me know why.

Thanks again,
ron

[I have edited this topic/question for clarity--jimh]

JFM posted 11-02-2001 04:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Classic better! Built better, cheaper and less depriciation. Regards, Jay
Louie Kokinis posted 11-02-2001 04:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Both are nice - depends on your needs.

Classic 22’s lack some of the creature comforts and esthetics, they’re a smaller boat, and don’t offer the same fishy features the newer hulls do. The new hull is heavier and requires more power than the old. It’s minimum HP rating is much higher, so getting up on a single is a challenge if the boat is loaded (which it usually will be). It has a higher freeboard (a plus for most), but if you drift the higher sides act like a sail, and unless your 7’ tall catch and release is a challenge.

Some like the closed Euro transom vs the open transom. I feel the Euro only limits the already small amount of usable space the boat has to offer, makes gaffing or netting difficult, and restricts how much water the boat can shed. The argument here is that the Euro will also restrict how much water enters the boat – in my experience the water always comes in over the front.

As for performance and seaworthiness – the classic gets my vote (and got my dollars). The newer hull is great for most conditions, better than the old in some, but if it gets snotty – I would much rather be in the older hull.

My post is biased since I own the classic design, but my classic is a 1999. I did (and you should) however drive many boats (including the new and classic outrages) before deciding which is best for you.

Louie

JEvans posted 11-02-2001 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for JEvans  Send Email to JEvans     
Ron,
Having owned both a 22 revenge and a 24 new style Outrage or post classic I'll tell you both have there points. If your looking for the best ride you ever had in a Whaler go for the new non-classic outrage. Mine is the best riding Whaler I have ever owned soft riding fast and dry.

If cost is a factor go for the classic because Whaler changed their mindset somewhere in the early 90's and starting building loaded boats trim tabs, Fresh water, and wash-down pumps as standard so the price went up. If you want a boat with all that kind of stuff go for the new Outrage. You could always retrofit a classic but Whaler doesn't leave much room for change in the older boats. Another thing the new boats have over the older ones is storage someone at Whaler realized they could build storage into the hull and still make the safest boat out there. Of course the newer Whalers can't compare with there older siblings for style with no wood trim to speak of but then again if you don't like to keep up with oiling the teak, fiberglass and plastic is just find. Hope this helps.

Joe

jimh posted 11-02-2001 08:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
[Deleted this comment after editing topic/question--jimh]
jimh posted 11-03-2001 07:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
This issue, new Whaler designs versus old Whaler designs, is one with supporters on both sides and can be (and has been) debated.

Regarding the lack of built-in storage compartments on the older Whalers, I think this is acutally an advantage!

By organizing the boat with coolers to carry most of the stowed items, you can easily transport the gear to and from the boat.

I keep most of my boat gear in a cooler in the cockpit. I wanted to work on organizing it so I just brought the cooler home from the boat. I spent the week fiddling with the contents, organizing, cleaning, etc. Next time I use the boat, I just bring the cooler with me--instant organization!

Also, you can have different coolers for different purposes. You might have one all set for fishing gear, and another all set with cruising or camping gear or food.

I don't fish, so perhaps I don't appreciate the convenience of all the built-in bait wells and fish wells on some of the newer boats.

If you leave your boat unattended, say at a marina or storage yard, it may be simpler to take a cooler off the boat than to lock up every locker.

Ed Stone posted 11-03-2001 08:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
It's difficult to compare the classics to
the newer Whalers.
The classic hulls were and still are
well thought out designs that were built
to last.
I think in order to turn a profit and
appeal to a larger group of prospective
buyers they had to add more features and
options.
My Whaler has a nice bench seat that seldom
gets used because I spend more time fishing
than sitting.But thank goodness we have that
bench seat when the family goes along!
And that 30 gal. bait well makes one heck
of a trash can when it's not full of bait.
Ed Stone
Louie Kokinis posted 11-05-2001 04:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Both are still available, CPD will build you a new classic style hull. IMO it depends on your boating needs, your budget, and how long you're willing to wait.

andygere posted 11-05-2001 05:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
In terms of price, how do new Whalers compare to new Classics (CPD) boats of similar size/capability? Louis, without being more specific than you are comfortable with, is a CPD 22 less expensive (I doubt this), comperable(<10% difference in cost), somewhat more expensive (10-20%), or much more expensive (>20%)than a similarly equipped 230 Outrage? Perhaps it's not fair to compare a commercial duty product to a recreational duty product, but it would be interesting to have an idea of the spread, if any.
Louie Kokinis posted 11-06-2001 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
It's more $'s. How much more depends on how much custom work and options are added. I can't remember offhand where the dust settled. We really didn't have a budget for the 22, we just knew what we wanted and had it built.

Console selection alone can adjust the price by 10k$. The good thing is that you get the boat you want, and it will last one heck of a long time recreational fishing.

lhg posted 11-06-2001 02:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
A year and a half ago, I was quoted close to $60,000 for a brand new CPD 27 Guradian, with full transom, and standard equipment, some of which I wanted deleted. Additional non-CPD fittings, rails, helm seating, engine bracket, etc, were looking like an additional $15,000 for a complete recreationally rigged boat, in Desert Tan color. A pair of Merc 250HP EFI's were another $21,000., which I would buy separately and rig myself.

So I was looking at about $90-100M for a brand new 27, a large sized twin of "Whale Lure". They had a 26 Outrage available at the same time for about $86,000. I thought the CPD 27 Guardian looked like a great deal compared to that. No comparison in the boats, if you ask me. A new equivalently sized 28 Outrage is a lot more, and I don't like it as well.

Like Louie says, I think more should look at the CPD possibility if a new Whaler is in the budget. I doubt if they're really that more expensive if you know what you're doing. You just have to know your way around the marine component supplier business a little, to get the boat rigged out the way you want it. The CPD doesn't seem equipped for this purpose, so you get your basic hull and console (of your choice) from them, with other factory installed necessities like a washdown system, floor hatches, lifting eyes, cleats, etc then get your leaning post/seating, Igloo cooler seats, fabricated rails, brackets, arches, engines, tee tops, engine rigging, outriggers/fishing gear, whatever, locally. If you have good design ability, you can have one heck of a cool Whaler. One that LOOKS like a Whaler, but does not look like a Coast Guard patrol boat!

Ft Lauderdale, the advertized "Yachting Capitol of the World" is one place to do this, as almost anything can be made and added to a boat down there. A good knowledgable long time Dealer is also of value in this process, one who has worked with CPD before. Many of the best OEM's are in South Florida. But for canvas, I'd still go up to Mills!

andygere posted 11-06-2001 03:57 PM ET (US)     Profile for andygere  Send Email to andygere     
Louie and Larry, great info on the CPD option. The cost for a "new classic" in part explains why older classic hulls in good condition mainatain their value so well.

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