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Author Topic:   Seeking gas mileage info; F-250 4x4 crew w/5.4 gas
maverick posted 12-09-2001 09:55 AM ET (US)   Profile for maverick   Send Email to maverick  
Hi, everyone. Sold my 99 F-250 Powerstroke crew cab 4x2, and getting ready to order new pickup. I'm seeking "gas" mileage input - I already know the Powerstroke diesel info and may buy another PSD, but it costs $4000 more so I'm comparing. Here's what I want to know: F-250 4x4 crew cab with either GAS 5.4 or V10 engines - what kind of MPG can I expect? I've heard 11-12. Your input please, preferably from someone who has one or has solid info. Thanks, Mav
Dr T posted 12-09-2001 10:39 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dr T  Send Email to Dr T     
Not exactly the same vehicle but:

1999 F-150 extended cab, 5.4, 4x4 offroad package with 3.73 gears and limited slip. Around town about 14 mpg. On long road trips, up to about 18 mpg. This vehicle is a is fairly sensitive to stop and go driving, but likes the road. On long pulls with the 13 Sport, I get about 15-16 MPG.

Road test reports I have seen indicate that that the V10 in the F-250s will get ~10-11 MPG.

Trailer Life magazine has done a number of road tests with various tow packages. You might check there.

PULLNIT posted 12-09-2001 02:33 PM ET (US)     Profile for PULLNIT  Send Email to PULLNIT     
This should not even be an issue!STROKE IT.nough said!!!!!!!
NWflyfisher posted 12-09-2001 05:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for NWflyfisher    
Had a 1999 F-250 SuperDuty SuperCab 4X4 with the Lariat and off-road packages, short bed, 5.4 gas, 5-speed manual, 4.11 rearend and limited slip. I hit a high of 12.3 for about a week, if I remember correctly, about the 2nd month I had it. It then settled out in the 11.5-11.9 mpg range for the remainder of the year and a half that I owned it. I loved that beast, but it was too much truck for us.
whalerron posted 12-09-2001 09:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
My brother has the 4x4 Crewcab with the PSD and the E40D auto with 4.11 rears. That truck gets just about 15 mpg at 70 mph and it creeps up to 16 mph if he holds the speed between 60 and 65. The PSD has 425 foot pounds of torque compared to the 5.4L's 350 foot pounds of torque. So, the PSD has more guts but is it worth the extra 4K it costs you? Here in Maryland, diesel is about 20 cents more per gallon and I am not sure you can justify the extra cost of the motor if you are expecting the extra 3 mpg to pay for the engine over the long term. The 5.4 is a gutsy engine and it develops its peak power under 2000 rpms so it should be a good puller. I too am real curious to see what kind of mileages people are seeing with the 5.4 in the heavier pickups.
maverick posted 12-10-2001 05:10 AM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Thanks to all who responded. I figured 12 mpg is about high average fuel economy for gas 5.4. Yep, PSD "nuf said" is probably right, I'm just trying to convince myself that i want to spend the extra $. Just bought a backhoe this weekend, so a diesel to pull is probably imminent now. Thanks again for the helpful info. As mom would say, "The only difference between men and boys is the cost of their toys..." heh heh Mav
lonestarpa posted 12-10-2001 06:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for lonestarpa  Send Email to lonestarpa     
a diesel can pay off.. but you have to drive a lot. We're in westeren pa. (hills) I have friends with both powerstrokes and cummings getting 20 - 21 on the run. They both have standard trans. and 3.55 gears, and pull anything thrown at them. I purchased a 90 ford van with a 7.3 diesel with 4.11 gears and hated it. noisy, couldn't pull a hill (no power at speed) and 15 mpg on a run. After 3 years I put 3.55 gears in, 20 plus mpg,quieter AND MORE POWER ! The rules are different for diesel guys.
Eric posted 12-12-2001 09:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for Eric  Send Email to Eric     
I have my doubts about a 330 cubic inch engine (5.4 liters) being adequate for that package. Ok for just the truck, but not with a trailer.
Whalerdan posted 12-13-2001 12:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
If you have enough cash to afford getting rid of a 3-year-old top of the line truck to get a new one, why do you care about gas mileage? The truck you had should have lasted easily over 200k miles.
maverick posted 12-13-2001 12:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Whalerdan - Your response wasn't the data I was looking for, but to answer your question, considering gas mileage is one of many reasons one "gets" enough cash. Mav
blackdog posted 12-14-2001 10:18 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
There was a thread on the GM Dura Max here about a month ago. MPH was around 18-21 on the Chevy 2500HD Diesel
Whalerdan posted 12-14-2001 11:13 AM ET (US)     Profile for Whalerdan  Send Email to Whalerdan     
Mav - I know saving money where you can is good in the long run, and believe me I do it. I'm just saying that the money one, anyone, spends trading cars every couple of years would BUY the gas for the vehicle for it's life span. My point is if you are going to spend it to do this (trade every few years), gas mileage, I would think, would be the least of your concerns and you should just go ahead and buy what you like.

One more thing:

20,000miles/year * 1gal/12mile * $1.30/gal = $2167
20,000miles/year * 1gal/25mile * $1.30/gal = $1040
QED the difference between 12 and 25 mile to the gallon (which is huge) is only about $1,000/year. The $4000 dollar extra your talking about spending on that motor would take about 4 years to make up (Longer if the difference in mileage is less). Since you'll trade it off before that, and you don't like to waste money on gas, you shouldn't buy it. But you're a smart guy and you already probably figured that out.

blackdog posted 12-14-2001 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Good point Dan. Also, Diesel fuel is about .40 a gallon in our area.
whalerron posted 12-14-2001 06:07 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
40 cents a gallon? Wow! Here in Maryland, diesel is 40 cents a gallon more than gasoline! Gas=1.10, Diesel=1.50 That makes it hard to justify the diesel engine that costs 4K more.
DIVE 1 posted 12-14-2001 08:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for DIVE 1    
I own a 1996 F350 2WD crewcab with a 351, auto trans. and a 4:10 limited slip differential. 10-12mpg is average, best is 14 on highway at 60mph. Pulling DIVE1(7500lbs), 9-10mpg.
whalerron posted 12-15-2001 01:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
Don't be too quick to discount that 5.4L engine. Cubic inches only tell part of the story. (I know of a 5.0L that generates 500 horsepower.) That 5.4 generates 350 foot pounds of torque which is only 75 foot pounds less than the diesel. The 2002 5.4L generates its peak torque under 2500 rpms and that should be great for trailering. No, its not as torquey as the diesel (which is a great motor) but it will run circles around the 5.8L motor that it replaces.

Interestingly enough, Ford now gives a "Tractive Force" rating on their trucks. Tractive force is a measurement of "the powertrain's ability to turn raw horsepower into applied force at the tires". Of course, rear ratios, tire size and torque converters play into this number. More interesting is that in the pickups, the 5.4 is rated at 4843 lbs of tractive force while the diesel is rated at 4266 pounds of tractive force. I guess they use lower gears (higher numerically) in the gas models to boost the tractive force and that in turn should hurt the gas mileage.

Maverick, I gotta say that if you had a diesel and you didn't mind the noise, you would probably never be happy with the gas engines. That diesel pulls like gangbusters and it seems like there is no end to its power. That probably has a lot to do with its flat torque curve.

I have an F350 4x4 Crewcab with the 5.8 in it and 4.10 rears with a manual tranny. The gas mileage is bad but that truck will pull a house. When looking at the gas mileage figures, you gotta think about how you will use the truck. If you are only trailering once every 2 weeks and just doing general commuting the rest of the time, you probably shouldn't concern yourself with the towing mileage of a gas engine. However, if you are towing often or running the truck loaded, the diesel is probably a better bet if you think it will last 300K miles.

- ron

whalerron posted 12-15-2001 01:14 AM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
Yikes! I just reread the thread and saw that you are pulling a backhoe with the truck. I assume that means you have a construction/plumbing business and that you would be hauling that backhoe everywhere you go. I would opt for the diesel with the 4.10 rears and a dually. With the 3.55 rears, I would be afraid of the diesel eating the transmission by about 60K miles. The dual wheels should help reduce your sway when you are trailering the backhoe. Pulling that backhoe around is gonna kill your mileage with whatever engine you have! The backhoe and trailer together must weigh about 10000 pounds.

By the way, why did you sell the 99?

- ron

maverick posted 12-16-2001 05:23 AM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Thanks for the info, guys. I'm likely gonna buy the diesel 4x4 crewcab. The reason I sell/trade every few years is that my dad is a retired Ford Exec and one of his perks is that he and his kids can buy new Fords at big discounts. Usually I can buy new, drive a year and sell for a price that makes trading (sell and buy new) very worth my while (know what I mean?). I've had 2 Powerstrokes and each has been an impressive performer. No complaints. The backhoe was something I've wanted to have for awhile, just acquired some acres, clearing and building a pond is the plan. Short pulls from house to land. Best, Mav

hardensheetmetal posted 12-16-2001 10:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for hardensheetmetal  Send Email to hardensheetmetal     

Ithink at this point you pretty much answered your own question, but just thought I would throw this at you. I have two PSD trucks one '00 F350 4WD P/U and a 99 F450 with a 12' stake body. As I am sure you know from owning them in the past, the motors rule, but the transmissions have their limitations. The F350 had the tranny changed out at about 24,000 mi. and is at 32,000 now and I don't love the way it sound/behaves. Don't get me wrong, I love the trucks (no problem with the 450) and I would buy another (especially with 0% interest!)

I did have a few chances to pull my Revenge with the 350 before I sold the boat. I figure the boat motor and trailer were close to 5000# and the truck had absolutely no problem. I have also pulled my 13 with it, and you forget it is back there!

The crew cab is nice, what I wanted originally, but got a deal on mine as a left over. If you can stay away from dual wheels, you will obviously do much better fuel wise. I beleive that 3:73 gearing is standard on dually pickups (don't quote me) I have a friend with a 99 F350 dually, he pulls horse trailers, and he claims he can't get better than 14 mpg or so (without the trailer).

Good luck with it


Andy Holmes posted 12-20-2001 03:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Andy Holmes  Send Email to Andy Holmes     
For what its worth:
1997 E-350 Super Club Wagon with V-10, 3.73 rear end. Towing 1998 Standard (same hull as montauk) get 12 mpg highway, around 10 in town. Not towing anything, 15 hwy and 11 in town. Great engine, you don't notice you are towing anything.
JFM posted 12-21-2001 09:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Mav, I justed talked to a buddy that has a 2001 F350 Super Duty Double cab Power Stroke. He does all our snow removal. He just took Ford to court and won under the "Lemon Law". His problem is that when the foot brakes are applied the power steering does not work. He talked to his Ford mechanic buddy and it seems to be a common problem on power strokes and V10's. He is getting a brand new truck, his 2001 has 30,000 miles on it. His total cost will be about $1500 for the new one. Regards, Jay
blackdog posted 12-21-2001 08:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
I am just not trusting Ford very much these days.
maverick posted 12-22-2001 06:19 AM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Thanks again for all the info - a very interesting thread for me. I had few problems with the 2 previous powerstroke diesels I owned (no problems on the 1996; 99 needed brake rotors turned at 60k miles - I paid $150- both front electric window motors went out - Ford paid). I think the gas engines are also good if used within reason, like anything. Dan - you make a good point about the dollars in fuel and keeping a vehicle to get the use out of it. I'll do that eventually, but I really get a kick out of getting something new every so often for now. No real complaints about Ford products, had good service from them. Owned a Chevy Suburban (bought used), and that was a great vehicle too - I think the old Chevy 350 gas is a very tough and economical bird. Thanks again everyone. Happy Holidaze. Mav
Ed Stone posted 08-28-2002 10:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
How does the dodge cummings diesel stack
up against the ford power stroke diesel
for pulling trailers. My boat and trailer
weigh-in at around 7500 pounds.
I know the ford is a larger motor,but the
cummings diesel has been around forever.
And how's about the rear end gear?
4.10 or 3.55 rear end.
Ed Stone
maverick posted 08-29-2002 05:54 AM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Wow, this thread has been around - and around again! Well, I opted not to tow the backhoe anywhere, and bought a Ford F150 Supercrew 4x4 FX4. Big change from the diesel, but a very nice, quiet and comfortable truck. Got the 5.4 engine, gets about 16 mpg most driving. I don't pull anything heavy anymore - the 13 Whaler weighs practically nothing. Ed, regarding the Cummings diesels, lots of my horse friends here in Aiken, SC (thoroughbred country) pull HEAVY trailers with horses, and there are 2 trucks in use, both diesels: Ford Powerstrokes (dually crew cabs) and dually Dodges. Both get rave reviews, but there are about 3 Fords to every 1 Dodge, and it is extremely rare to see a Chevy. The Dodge gets better mileage - I hear of 19 mpg Ford unloaded highway; Dodge about 20-21 mpg. Loaded: about 10-14 either depending on load. Both diesel engines seem to have a proud following, and both seem to have an excellent track record for performance and maintenance. I'll probably get another diesel eventually - don't need it though now, and don't want to spend an extra $5-7k. Best, Mav

blackdog posted 08-29-2002 09:47 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Make sure you check out the Duramax Dieselís. Chevy canít make enough of them fast enough. I can tell you they are much quieter and fuel economy is report in the range above, high teens. If the choice is between Dodge and Ford. Go with the Ford, the Ramís have had many transmission problems in the last couple years.


tully_mars posted 08-29-2002 11:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for tully_mars  Send Email to tully_mars     
The 5.4 engine is a wimp. I had that in my F-150 and it could barely pull my 21' Outrage. Now I have a Powerstroke F-250. (16-17mpg city and 19-20mpg highway, 12-14mpg towing)

Also, a friend of mine has the F-250 4x4 5.4L gas and gets 6-8mpg towing, 11 at best driving. He also can't stand it due to lack of power pulling his Chris Craft.

Tully Mars

gnr posted 08-29-2002 12:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for gnr  Send Email to gnr     
Just drove my 02 F150 7700 with the 5.4 two thousand miles round trip to pick up my 17' Whaler. On the trip out, with a driving style best described as "motivated" I averaged 14.5 mpg on four tanks of gas. The trip home, towing the boat averaged 12.5 mpg. This truck is a x-tra cab and the 7700 series F150 is essentially a 3/4 ton truck. Heavier frame, suspension, transmission and brakes then a standard F150.

While the 5.4 doesn't stand a chance against a Powerstroke I would hardly call it a wimp. I have towed my buddies 24' Sportfisherman on a 350 mile trip to Lake Ontario several times, none of which is highway driving and the 5.4 will make me forget the boat is back there.

maverick posted 08-29-2002 05:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for maverick  Send Email to maverick     
Tully -

The Powerstroke <is> a top puller, no doubt. The last 2 I had were exceptional. Regarding your comment on the 5.4, have to disagree, unless your hull is waterlogged. The 5.4 hould have pulled it well albeit not a good as an F250 Dzl. The gas burner has great performance for its class, and comparing it to the 7.3 diesel is like comparing your 21 outrage to a Grand Banks. Different designs make for different performance. BTW, great pics of your boat - very sharp, but what is that pipe thing on the T-Top? Mav

tully_mars posted 08-29-2002 11:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for tully_mars  Send Email to tully_mars     
The pipe thing on the T-top is a radar mount, which is screwed on so it will come off. Just left it on there in case next owner wanted to mount a radar.

My 5.4 would pull the boat adequately I suppose, but not to my liking to have a vehicle for a very long time. If you change trucks every 90k miles or so no problem, I just didn't think it would do for long term hauling. In other words, as soon as I got the truck paid off I didn't want to have to buy a new one, I would rather upgrade my boat. :)

Tully Mars

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