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  Conquest 23 vs. revenge 22.

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Author Topic:   Conquest 23 vs. revenge 22.
ron3637 posted 12-17-2001 12:33 PM ET (US)   Profile for ron3637   Send Email to ron3637  
I would appreciate your comments on the pros and cons of these two boats. on a value vs. utlity basis. Boat will be used on the chesapeak for fishing and crusing. thanks ron
lhg posted 12-17-2001 01:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Here comes another round of the "old vs new"!
David Ratusnik posted 12-17-2001 04:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz snoozzzzz I've lost interest. D
JFM posted 12-17-2001 04:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
ron, I have been doing some tire kicking, and the guys are right about old vs. new. The Conquest has more creature comforts, a newer look and feel and a much bigger price tag. This has been hashed around quite a bit in the past. The decision is yours based on what you really need and want in a boat and also what you can afford. Regards, Jay
ron3637 posted 12-17-2001 05:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for ron3637  Send Email to ron3637     
It doesn't seem that there is a true price differential between both boats if the conquest is bought used. A revenge seems to be around $20,000 +/- and if you have to repower, which you have to if the engine/s are old, you are about equal with a used conquest. any comments? thanks ron
Glenn Weigle posted 12-17-2001 06:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Glenn Weigle  Send Email to Glenn Weigle     
Ii have to stir it. Somebody needs to inform the tire kickers that there are three WHALERS-Montauk, Outrage, and Offshore. They all share the original 'catfish mouth' front hull design and varying degrees of V depth. I have said my piece. Fireball in Florida, brother of th soon to be famous Whaler expert, Maverick
jimh posted 12-17-2001 06:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Ron,
Welcome back. Your angle on the used-Revenge -vs- used-Conquest is interesting.

If you are going to immediately re-power any boat that you just bought with a used engine, there will be a big cost swing. You just paid (something) for a used engine which you immediately remove. That has to cost, no matter what the brand of boat involved.

A "loose" 15-year-old outboard does not retain as much value by itself as it does when on the transom of a classic boat like a Whaler. If the boat is in great condition, it probably adds more value to the old outboard. Take that old engine off the transom and its value drops.

But it does not fall to zero. For everyone who wants to go boating there is a price bracket. Some guys have the wallet for brand new and some guys have a bit lower financials. So the loose engine is still worth something, maybe more than you think.

Factor its value into your calculations and see how it comes out.

Also, when you get a used Conquest you still get a used outboard. Your repowered Classic Whaler will have a brand-new-2002 outboard on it, and that has to be factored in, too.

--jimh

lhg posted 12-17-2001 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Be careful of a used Conquest with a pre-2001 200 or 225 Merc Optimax on it. Have the computer put on the engine for it's complete history.
Peter posted 12-17-2001 06:25 PM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
I don't agree with the assessment here on price. A used Conquest is going to cost more
than a repowered Revenge unless you grossly overpay for the Revenge.

My experience has been that once a Whaler hull is over 10 years old, they don't depreciate much (not taking inflation into account). Most, if not all, of the depreciation of a 10+ year old Whaler rig is in the outboard(s) hanging on its transom. I've seen used Revenges listed between 10-20K depending on age and condition of the motor and hull. If you can find a decent WalkThrough (1985-1990) for 10-12K, you can repower it with a new 200+ horsepower engine for about another 12K have one heck of a boat pushed by a new motor with a warranty. I doubt you'll find a good condition used Conquest for under 35k. Certainly not one where the motor is still under warranty.

If a Euro transom and some of the noted creature comforts is important to you, then the Conquest is the one you should seek. If you have any notion of trailering, the Revenge weighs much less and might be the right choice. You have to decide what is important to your needs.

Ed Stone posted 12-17-2001 10:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ed Stone  Send Email to Ed Stone     
Do a search on boat trader.Just reduced on
the 17th of December. 23 foot conquest
$33900 or best offer.
250hp Yamaha
ron3637 posted 12-17-2001 11:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for ron3637  Send Email to ron3637     
I am not sure you could find a used revenge in good condition for $10-12,000. It seems we are talking some what more in the order of----$15-18,000 + $15,000 for a new yamaha 250---and you basicly have a tie, and i am in favor of creature comforts. The question I have is does the conquest really have that many creature comforts--its still a 23 foot boat? Also,I realize that the conquest engine will not be new but that might be the trade off. Also resale of the conquest vs. the revenge would I believe be an eaiser task several years down the road.Comments? ron
Nimbus 2000 posted 12-18-2001 07:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for Nimbus 2000  Send Email to Nimbus 2000     
I would like to introduce you to ron3637.

He is a fine fellow, just stuck in a rut of indecision.

It doesn't appear his aliment will be cured anytime soon.

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001533.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001623.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001539.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001555.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001596.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001549.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001555.html

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001520.html

Sorry there is more, I must go take a snooze before continuing. Developed a [url] cramp in my left little toe.

Do keep up the good work men, you may well be able to cure Ron3637 (must be the institution's ID) with all your sound advice.

Nimbus
Peter posted 12-18-2001 08:32 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
Ron, you'd need some patience, but a good Revenge WT hull for 10K-12K can be done because I've done it, with a fair condition full Mills canvas enclosure setup and some electronics to boot. In order to take advantage of such opportunity when it knocks you have to know what you want, know a good one from a bad one and be ready to decisively pounce when that opportunity arises. Obviously, this applies to any used boat, car, etc.

Your comparison is not quite accurate in that you would not be repowering a 22 Revenge with a 250 Yamaha, but rather a 225 Yamaha. That will knock about 1k off.

Resale for anything is only difficult if you expect far more compensation for the article than what its perceived value is to the prospective buyers. I believe that one that repowers a 10+ year old classic hull, one that isn't made anymore, will not lose as much money to depreciation of the hull over the long run as compared to a newer hull, like a 23 Conquest, for example. That newer hull has a higher value to depreciate and is not a rarity since they still make them. The motors are going to depreciate at about the same rate in the same environment regardless of what transom they are hanging on so you can throw them out of the depreciation comparison because it is a wash.

The Revenge will probably not appeal to those looking for a contemporary boat with certain creature comforts and styled for the mass market. So the market for the Revenge is likely to be more limited than for the Conquest. As such, it may take longer to sell the Revenge than the Conquest, but again that all depends on the price you are willing to sell.

The best advice that anyone can give you here is caveat emptor.

JFM posted 12-18-2001 09:12 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Glenn, what does your post have to do with the topic here. Do you mean thats the difference between the Conquest and Revenge??? I don't get your point. Jay
ron3637 posted 12-18-2001 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for ron3637  Send Email to ron3637     
I want to thank Nimbus 200 for the time he spent organizing my previous posts. i know his time is valuable, so i really appreciate the sacrifice he made. if you should read any of my prior posts and have any information you would like to share with me i would appreciate it. otherwiswe lets hear it for Nimbus 2000. ron
David Ratusnik posted 12-18-2001 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
I'm up an at 'em again. Ron- Here's my take and rec having factored in previous posts plus opinions rendered above etc. Decide- Commit to the Revenge (fine boat, for first or last). Actually, one could argue that one might be better off starting with abit less boat (maybe 15-17ft). Oh, well. Now, do two (2) things-- (1) Place a post on the Forum in Marketplace indicating you wish to buy someone's Revenge (one fellow already wishes to sell to you). His boat sounds clean, clean,clean- go look at it. Say, "What do you have to have for the boat?" If it is clean, you will associate a $$ figure with a quality boat. Now, two (2)- study various BoatTraders in order to locate other Revenges for sale. You must be willing to travel to the boats with cash in hand. Put X $$ in cash in one pocket, in the other pocket put the $$'s taking you to your already decided upon limit. It's like a gal going out on a date, deciding whether or not she is going to put out. (sorry). The key is travel to quality boats with cash-- you could not be the buyer in a better point in time. The economy stinks, it's the Holidays and the Date iis 12/18 (December, December, December). I mean. you and 2 other guys are looking for boats right now. By the way, a neighbor is a "snowbird" Michigan to Merritt Island, FLA. He claims half the boats in Michigan are for sale right now- water is low and depressing boating. (guys- jsut my neighbors opinion, but he has owned 9 boats). IF I WANTED A REVENGE RIGHT NOW, NOW, I would look fresh water in the Midwest. The engines and hulls have not been abused by salt water. Good luck. My .03 David
Taylor posted 12-18-2001 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for Taylor  Send Email to Taylor     
I want to defend Ron here on the charge of indecision. He seems to have his size range nailed down, and he is wisely looking at all the options in the size & performance range, and must be eliminating the less atractive options.

I seem to remember last July, I was asking about 15 vs 17, and Montauk vs Newport, smirk or no smirk and getting some really helpful advice from folks who actually know these boats. I'm really pleased with what I got in the end.

Ron does seem to be homing in on the Revenge, and after the last Cetecea, I'd have to agree. But sometimes people have trouble pulling the trigger. Ron, is there anything we can do to help?

jimh posted 12-18-2001 09:27 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Since he doesn't have a boat, I am recommending ron3637 buy one he can use right away--assuming the weather permits--so he can begin to enjoy it. No fun spending a lot of money then having to wait eight weeks while everything gets overhauled and rebuilt.

I am still trying to figure out David's metaphor about gals and [social inter-action]...but I am in strong agreement about this being an optimum time to be a buyer.

And, yes, ron3637 has been seen dancing around the floor with a number of different partners (picking up that metaphor stuff again), but the important thing is "Will he go home with a gal or by himself?"

David Ratusnik posted 12-18-2001 10:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for David Ratusnik  Send Email to David Ratusnik     
Forget the women thing-Sorry. I'm just trying to help the guy. Trying to get the issue down to the nut. Dollars, deals, travel to available boats, pull the trigger etc. Buying a boat in not simply an intellectual thing -- there is lust involved (here I go again). I'd like to see Ron buy the highest quality Revenge available so we can discuss his experiences on the water and with the boat. At this point I'm about ready for the boat psychiatrist. I'll try to keep my riddles to a minimum. David
Peter posted 12-19-2001 08:33 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     
With the number of questions that ron3637 has asked so far, I'm of the impression that he has not had a boat before. If my impression is correct, then he should really consider taking David's advice to get his "feet wet" on something not bigger than a 17 Montauk.
blackdog posted 12-19-2001 10:03 AM ET (US)     Profile for blackdog  Send Email to blackdog     
Good point! Start out small….learn the ropes… Exactly what I did, 16 Dauntless – 1st boat.

Being on boats and learning how to drive someone else’s boat for a couple of years helped me. I took a USCG course and practiced as much as possible. Still, nothing compares to experience when it comes to handling your boat. Friends all told me to get a larger boat but I wasn’t comfortable enough to pilot a larger boat. I didn’t want to be one of those guys who has 20 something or even 30 something foot boat crashing into everything in site!
JFM posted 12-19-2001 10:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Blackdog, you remind me of my youth. I restored mahogany classics from the time I was 16 and could pilot any kind of runabout. Anyway, I quit drinking (I'm a refomed alcoholic) at 25. So I was the designated "Skipper". The first time I was I had to pilot my friends dad's 38' Roamer (the one I used to own) back to port on the Ohio River after a day of everyone else drinking and the big Cincinnati fireworks party. You learn how to pilot a boat quickly under those kind of circumstances. I made a mess of it but managed to make it back. It was a good thing everone on the boat was hammered because no one would have left me pilot their boat if the saw me at the helm if they were sober. Regards, Jay
ron3637 posted 12-19-2001 11:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for ron3637  Send Email to ron3637     
I see you removed my response to NiMbus 2000. Why not remove nimbus' arrogant,rude and unresponsive reply as well, or leave them both on--something to think about? ron
ron3637 posted 12-19-2001 11:08 AM ET (US)     Profile for ron3637  Send Email to ron3637     
My apology i didnt see my response the first time around, but the feelings still remain ron ps This will be my first boat and yes i am tring to narrow my choices down and i believe that the responses from this board have helped me a great deal thanks again ron
JFM posted 12-19-2001 11:34 AM ET (US)     Profile for JFM  Send Email to JFM     
Ron, take the plunge. This is the time of the year to buy one right. If it were me (and I might too) buy a good used Whaler. Worse case is if you buy one right, you probably won't lose any money if you decide later to sell. Regards, Jay
Taylor posted 12-19-2001 01:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for Taylor  Send Email to Taylor     
Easy Ron... Nimbus just helped us all understand the context of the question, and I really think that is leading us to a better answer.
csj posted 12-19-2001 11:17 PM ET (US)     Profile for csj  Send Email to csj     
ron, my brother and I have purchased a 1986 and 1989 22' revenge in the baltimore area within the past year and paid 10,000 for one and 9,750.00 for the other, both engines, one a 89 200 yamaha and the other 86 225 johnson and run perfect. The deals are out there as stated. I'll keep my eyes and ears open for you.

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