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george nagy posted 12-19-2001 04:16 PM ET (US)   Profile for george nagy   Send Email to george nagy  
Did use to have an area that you could put your HIN and get back info? or was I dreaming? Also I was looking at the commercial line and they offer the 17' and 19' hull which look like the 1998 or 1999 vintage 17' and 20' outrages. These hulls have always sparked my interest especially since they don't have any wasted space in the stern area like the newer hulls. I think they look pretty good. Does anyone know anything about these outrages? The commercial ones look like they may have a large in-deck storage are behind the helm seating. Well I'm just wondering about how someone could get a nice new whaler(design)? It would seem that some of these hulls might be alright replacements-supliments to some of our already classic hulls.
Buckda posted 12-19-2001 05:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Buckda  Send Email to Buckda     
You might want to check out the latter posts on the "evolution of the hullform" string. LHG, LouieKokonis,Zspeed7 and others have had a interesting discussion on this very topic.

I don't know about the HIN option on, but am sure others will know from that perspective.

To briefly sum up the discussion on the other string, (Accurately, I hope) we were discussing the viability and costs associated with purchasing from CPD to get a "new construction, Classic design" hull, or should I say "more classic" design than current recreational models. It seems that with a bit of time and elbow grease from the buyer, you can rig yourself a pretty nice boat for less money by purchasing from CPD. Although there IS a caveat: Some of the design elements on the CPD models aren't as cosmetically attractive as the classic recreational line (i.e. beefier rub rails, more screws in the decking, etc), but most of the added materials that go into the CPD hulls are to strengthen or beef it up (which of course, adds extra weight for your motor to push around the lake all day).

Check out the discussion...and I'm sure LHG and others will have their $.02.


Louie Kokinis posted 12-19-2001 05:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
George: My 22 Guardian is posted in Cetacea pgs 10 & 12. CPD will ship bare hulls, or add any option you're willing to pay for (including electronics and or seatrial before delivery). Either way they are the best little boats on the water (IMO).


jbtaz posted 12-19-2001 07:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for jbtaz  Send Email to jbtaz     
Those two Justice models you are talking about under the CPD are in fact the 98 and 99 Outrages. You can buy onf from the Commercial Division and option it up pretty much to however you see fit. They are great hulls that I wish Whaler would still offer as Outrages. The one thing they are missing in their current no commercial product line in my opinion is the smaller Outrages.
hauptjm posted 12-20-2001 10:50 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    

The 19 Guardian you're referring to is in fact the Classic Outrage 18 from the 80's, not the OR 20. Check the specs and you'll see the dimensional information. Note that the weight is roughly 500lbs. more than the recreational model sported. This is the extra weight, stiffness, etc. that is built into the commercial product. As far as I'm aware, the 18 was the smallest of the classic Outrages. There was a 17 Outrage, but I don't think it would be considered a classic like the Dougherty boats.

If I were to buy new, I think I would have to go the route of the CPD. Particularly, if they could make an 18 with the sea-drive blank. Unfortunately, I don't think even CPD would be able to provide one of those.

george nagy posted 12-20-2001 11:11 AM ET (US)     Profile for george nagy  Send Email to george nagy     
I wasn't talking about the guardian. I was talking about the justice line.
hauptjm posted 12-20-2001 11:22 AM ET (US)     Profile for hauptjm    
Sorry! Misunderstood.
Louie Kokinis posted 12-20-2001 11:56 AM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Ooops...I also misunderstood.

The Justice line is the newer hull - Guardian is the classic.


lhg posted 12-20-2001 02:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
But they have sneaked a Sea Ray hull into the Guardian line, the 18 Dauntless, called the 18 Guardian! All the others are the true "Classics".

I notice they have changed the name with the reorganization and plant move. Commercial Products Division is no longer used. I think it's now Boston Whaler Commercial and Government, Inc. or something like that. Where have they moved to?

lhg posted 12-20-2001 02:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I just checked. "CPD" is gone, it's now "CGP" (Commercial and Government Products)
Louie Kokinis posted 12-20-2001 04:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
They moved down the street to a separate facility. The guys I keep in contact with are excited about the move.


jimh posted 12-20-2001 04:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I also believe that the Commercial Whaler Group is now being run from the Mercury Marine division of Brunswick, not under the SeaRay Boat group. A subtle but perhaps interesting change in structure, eh?
Louie Kokinis posted 12-20-2001 04:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
An interesting point about the Dauntless is that they almost axed the 22 Classic hull for the 22 Dauntless last year. Nobody will say why; but the old molds have been re-furbished and it looks like the 22 Guardian will remain “Classic” for a few more years:)
lhg posted 12-20-2001 04:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
The 22 Dauntless, believe it or not, is only designed to hold one engine. Most of the heavy duty 22's, military or commercial, went out with twin engines. It's recommended "inshore" use could have been a problem also. I doubt if it's overall performance, especially offshore, would measure up to the Classic 22. Who knows, but it's not a bad looking boat, more like a Whaler hull then most, except for the ridiculous little droopy transom. Why bother for such a minimal effect of only a couple of inches? How is it selling? I haven't seen many.
Louie Kokinis posted 12-20-2001 06:18 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Agreed. The funny thing is that they replaced the old 18 with the dauntless and it also can’t be rigged for twins. I like most things about the Dauntless but that transom and the inability to mount a kicker isn't for me.

I've seen 3 of the 22's so far. I think the reason is because most of them would be setup for inland use as Bass boats and or watersports vs ocean fishing.


DCPeters posted 01-09-2002 08:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for DCPeters  Send Email to DCPeters     
Can someone advise me how to approach the Commercial division.

They have rejected my frontal diverting me to "my local dealer" for all discussions--options, configurations, power, etc.

What's the likelihood that a local guy will know anything about this?

I recall a separate thread where I think Lhg priced out commercial vs montauk. How does one get this info?

lhg posted 01-09-2002 06:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Try to locate, within a couple of hundred miles, one of the "old time" BW dealerships that has previously ordered CPD boats. I would think that in New England, this would not be a problem. You will be able to tell if they regularly do business with CPD, because they will have a full sized current price & Spec manual on premises. Your "local" dealership may or may not be the best choice, and definitely not one of the new Sea Ray dealerships.

But most importantly, study, study, study in advance. Get a CPD catalog, and memorize the info on the website. And ask questions here.
Many of us have knowledge of their unique products and fittings for the boats, some of which are appropriate for a recreational boat, and some not, best obtained aftermarket instead.

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