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ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
|Author||Topic: 76 outrage|
posted 12-30-2001 03:15 PM ET (US)
Hi everyone, glad I came across your site learned lots.
I am on the edge of buying 76 outrage w/76 150 johnson, outriggers, trailer extras. I am having trouble putting a value on it because finding comparable sales are difficult to find. I've read about buying a classic. The boat started in michigan and is now in forida for the past ten years sitting in the water. the boat has gotten very little use from what I can learn. The owner paid 10k ten years ago and is now asking $6500.I can probably get it for around 5k.
Any hints greatly appreciated!!!
posted 12-30-2001 04:21 PM ET (US)
Have it surveyed by a NAMS or SAMS certified marine surveyor. Go here to find one http://www.marinesurveyor.com . Then you'll be in a better position to put a value on it.
posted 12-30-2001 04:56 PM ET (US)
You need to mention the length of the boat. An "Outrage" could be anything from a 17-foot boat to a 25-foot boat, varying accordingly in value and price.
posted 12-30-2001 05:14 PM ET (US)
Thanks for asking! She is 19feet 4 inches
The wood needs to be done but no rot or loose boards. Owner just had a new fuel tank installed. The old johnson fired up quick and sounded good I haven't done sea trial yet. The transom and all fittings are in good shape. Also has kicker motor bracket. Steering and all electrical connections look o.k. Slight pitting on chrome trim on console.
This is a very simple boat would a survey tell me that much more. Would they be able to tell about water saturation any better than me. I had boats before but not an older one. Always liked a whaler and will use it for fishing etc...
|Tom W Clark||
posted 12-30-2001 06:25 PM ET (US)
A 1976 Outrage could only be a 19' or a 21'. This one is a 19' which may have a 1976 Johnson or it may have a 150 hp Johnson, but it does not have a 1976 150 Johnson because there is no such thing. 1976 was the first year OMC offered a six cylinder outboard, the world's first V-6. It was rated at 200 hp, also a world's first. In 1977 they introduced it's little brother, the 175. The 150 was not introduced until 1982 or 1983. The V-4 140 filled the gap until that time and thereafter was offered alongside the 150.
So much for our little outboard anthropology lesson. It really doesn't matter in your case. If the motor is that old it is not worth much, running or not. This is not to say you shouldn't run it and enjoy it if it does but rather that you should look at buying this boat based on the boat's value and not ascribe any to the motor beyond its part's value, perhaps a few hundred dollars. Don't believe this? Ask the owner how much he will sell the boat for without the motor and then watch him chuckle.
To answer your question, I think you've got the general idea of its worth. If it's been in the water for ten years in Florida then you might have water in the hull issues. The fact that it is (presumably) bottom painted makes it harder to see the true condition of the bottom. The rest of the hull is all there to be seen. Are there lots of old holes left unsealed? Cracks, stress fractures? Oxidized gelcoat?
Much can be divined by the general condition of the boat. If it is immaculate after all these years then it is reasonable to assume the owner(s) took very good care of it including things you cannot see. On the other hand, if it is filthy and non shipshape, with unrepaired damage, then what does that say about the care it has received?
It is possible to find a clean, well kept boat that has some serious, invisible flaw, but it is much less likely to find a tired looking and beat up old boat that is essentially unflawed.
You probably shouldn't pay any more than $5000 and at $3000 or $4000 I would consider it a good deal.
posted 12-30-2001 08:00 PM ET (US)
Thanks Tom W
The motor history was great. The info I have is from the owner. So it is a newer motor. I agree with you on price, although not immaculate it is ship shape and well taken care of. Today I placed a 4k offer and will see what happens the owner is a stubborn older guy and doesn't want to hear about the potential for water saturation. Anyway thanks again for the reply and by fri I'll
posted 12-30-2001 09:03 PM ET (US)
Flash, I have owned several 19'4" Outrages and loved them all! They are a great boat with abundant stowage and live well and are superior performers (speed, handling and economy). If the boat is sound and is ship shape as you describe then you will be very happy with it no matter what the power choice! Good luck and happy Whalin'... Clark ... Spruce Creek Navy
posted 12-31-2001 11:14 AM ET (US)
I purchased the same model& year Classic 2 yrs ago. It was set up w/2 50hp Mercs.The boat was in good shape & came w/Intergrity bunk, tandem tralier(`88). I figured the motors were tired,and witin a year 1 did go. I have since repowered w/155hp Merc (!985). The motor had low hours and runs great.
My point is if you really like the hull,& boat set-up, go for it! This particular modelis not too easy to find,at least around the Great Lakes area. I paid $6200 for mine. The boat is also very stable. Hope this helps, Outaged
posted 12-31-2001 12:49 PM ET (US)
Sorry but 78 was the 1st year for 150's. Try this site with your serial # if you get it. http://www.evinrude.com/docktalk/modref/jomodyr/JHP150.html
posted 12-31-2001 02:15 PM ET (US)
Thanks for all the help fellow boaters it is much appreciated.
I called the owner and asked to check on the motors and his paperwork says 1978 johnson 150 hp. Must have gotten mixed up when he said 76 hull and original motors or whatever.
Anyway I really like the boat and from the positive comments I'll probably up the ante a little heck what's a few hundred dollars more to own a classic right?
What is it about whaler owners when it comes to selling their boats I think this guy would rather keep it another ten years if he doesn't get his price,funny huh. Well Friday I'll tell the rest of the story. Boat goes in paper Wed.
posted 01-09-2002 12:25 PM ET (US)
I own a 1975 19'4" Outrage with a 1990 150HP Johnson. I bought it two years ago for $8500. It had a new kicker and dual batteries, dual fish finders, radio, etc. and runs well. I think $5K or lower is a good price for your rig. If the motor is in good shape it's a great price.
posted 01-09-2002 12:35 PM ET (US)
I know that some time I come acroos a a spoiler. Believe me it is not my intention to offend anyone.
Now to the point. My uncle (known on this website as Eagleman), had one of these models. I think that he would be one of the first to tell you that this boat was one of the harshest riding Whalers ever produced. After being on the boat I would agree.
I highly suggest a test ride in 2-5" seas and see if your back and fillings can take it.
posted 01-09-2002 01:22 PM ET (US)
I have to agree with Brian. Several years ago, while out boating on Lake Mighigan in my 18 Outrage, I encountered a fellow with one of these 19 Outrages, powered with a single Merc 150. It was a fairly calm day, with waves running no more than 2' on a mild breeze. We were both anchored off the beach, swimming around the boats. He wanted to see how a twin engine 18 Outrage rode, and I wanted to see how the 19 Outrage rode, never having been in one before.
So we headed out in mine first. He was continually saying how great it rode, and how smooth the entry was coming off a wave. Really liked the boat. Then we took his out, and I instantly knew why he was so impressed with the 18. I couldn't believe how hard the ride was compared to the 18 Outrage. It was a HUGE difference. Actually, I was shocked. I think it was a harsher ride than my old 1971 Sakonnet. But I would also say that that I'm sure it would still be a safe boat and handle really big seas quite well with it's wide beam. Just not very comfortable.
As much as I like the looks of the boat, I think I would only buy one for inshore use.
But remember I am comparing this boat to the Classic 18 Outrage, still the best 18' hull BW has ever made, and yet to be bettered by a newer 18' model.
posted 01-09-2002 01:44 PM ET (US)
Tom W - Just read your post above on the introduction of the V-6 outboards. As you indicate, Johnson was the first out with the 90 degree V-6, followed six months later by Mercury's 60 degree V-6.
But I think both manufacturers first introduced them as 175 HP models. I know that is the case with Mercury in 1976, and thought that OMC's was also 175, but in 1975. What do you think? Mercury's engine was 110 cu in., but OMC's was larger. Then in 1976, OMC added the 200HP version. My '77 BW catalog does show a Johnson 200 on a 21 Outrage, so this would have been photographed in 1976. I think all of these were still powerhead rated engines.
posted 01-09-2002 02:42 PM ET (US)
In 76 OMC came out with a 200hp. In 78 they came iout with the 150+175's. Not sure when the 2thirsty5(235) came out. You are correct on the Mercs Larry. They then came out with a 3.4L? 300hp V6 in 1980 but it was a mechanical and marketing flop. OMC then came out with the 300hp V8 in 1985 and that ran until 1995 or 1996. Not as much of a flop but reliability was on the low end and weight was on the high end. Compared to Hondas 130hp 505lb bohemouth, guess they were not that heavy looking back.
posted 01-09-2002 04:10 PM ET (US)
I owned a 19'4 Outrage for 25 years originally equiped with a 135HP Johnson later with a 150HP Johnson. The layout of the interior was nice allowing for covered storage in the foward compartment. Handles great on smooth water, great for skiing, great for fishing extremely stable sitting in calm water. However the downside of the boat is it's one ROUGH RIDING hull in any choppy sea's over 1 foot and above 25mph. If I lived on an inland lake I would buy anther one in a heart beat, any boating on open water you're going to have to hang on to your teeth.
posted 01-09-2002 04:21 PM ET (US)
Thank, Nick, for bringing me up to date on the OMC V-6's. I had forgotten they began life in a 200HP version.
posted 01-09-2002 07:43 PM ET (US)
My recollection is that the OMC 235 came out in 1978 and the 150 and 175 came out in 1977.
|Tom W Clark||
posted 01-09-2002 09:58 PM ET (US)
Bigshot is right about the 150, it came out in 1978. The link he provided above is great!
Here is the more general link for identifying your OMC motor: http://www.evinrude.com/docktalk/modref/modelyr.html
The 200 came out in 1976 and the 175 the followed in 1977. Both the 150 and the 235 came out in 1978.
I remember when the 200 was first introduced. I saw a blurb in Yachting magazine in the summer of 1975 announcing this motor, the world's first V-6 and by far the most powerful outboard ever made. I just stared at that motor and thought "My god! a V-6 outboard. 200 hp! This was way back when the fastest boat I had ever been in was the neighbors' 17' with a MerCruiser 165 inline 6 that went (if trimmed just right) a whopping 45 mph! A boat all of us kids were in awe of. The thought of a mere outboard being considerably more powerful than that was hard for my 13 year old mind to believe.
posted 01-10-2002 08:51 AM ET (US)
As to ride of the 19'4" Outrage/Revenge, it is not the smoothest riding 19 by far and does not ride as smooth as the 18'6" Outrage, which is arguably the smoothest riding Whaler hull ever made (IMHO). In my experience the 18'6" hull rides smoother than the 22 footer! In any case, the 19'4" Outrage is a fantastic combination of size and capability and features! It has the large accessable anchor locker and giant lazarette forward plus the wet well! It has stowage in the sides under gunwhale and a big live well aft, the center console has a hanging locker and the huge 6" stern light knocks me out. The 40 gal built in tank is nice and the reserve flotation is great! And it will plane and operate with 65hp and will handle 175 (I know of one with a carb 200 Merc and it's very tractable and easy handling at speed!). True it rides rougher than most deep V's but it is NOT a deep V!!!
So no one should expect it to ride like anything other than a modified tri-hull with a wide almost flat bottom at stern.. For inshore, it's almost incomparable and I have had one out in very rough seas and never worried about it's seaworthiness (only my back!)... oh, also it floats so high that sump plug need never be put in! I would not pass up a good deal on a good 19'4" hull! I'll buy every one I can find... currently I have one upside down transforming it to a Low-Profile. Lord knows when I'll finish her but when I do it will be a fantastic flats/shallow water runner... Can't tell that I love this hull can you? Every man to his own poison but the 19'4" Outrage makes me weak in the knees... sort of like the girl I had a crush on in high school! Better stop here 'cause you don't want to know the rest of the story! Happy Whalin' , Clark..The Old Man and the sea
PS> My last 19'4" Outrage had a 150 V6 on it and I moved the console aft approx a foot and it was a big improvement in rough water ride and allowed a quicker bow rise!
posted 01-10-2002 09:20 AM ET (US)
I have a 1977 19' outrage, and I agree it is not the most comfortable in heavy seas at 30 mph, but if you bring the speed down to a more reasonable cruise, it is comfortable and dry. Any planing v-hull, or modified v-bottom boat will shake your fillings out during certain speeds and sea conditions.
Just throttle back to a confortable speed and she is fine.
posted 01-10-2002 06:03 PM ET (US)
whaler4me: Did we pass your boat, up on a narrow section of the New River in downtown Ft Lauderdale last Feburary? Do you remember seeing a 25 Outrage go by, with persons on board waving at you? If not, somebody else down there also has a mint 19 Outrage. Jimh and wife were in the boat with me, and I think we have a picture of that 19 Outrage.
Now, at least, I know what boat to look for, the next time I'm down.
posted 01-10-2002 06:07 PM ET (US)
Whaler4me: Sorry, it wasn't you, since boat was a 19 Revenge. See Cetacea page 39 for the picture.
posted 01-11-2002 09:35 AM ET (US)
LHG, No it was not me, but it was my boss' boat, I know it well. He has just repowered it with a 115 Yamaha 4 stroke.
I passed you on new years day just south of Bahia Mar. Let me know when you are coming back to south florida, and we will definitely
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