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ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
18 Outrage classic vs newer 19 (18)
|Author||Topic: 18 Outrage classic vs newer 19 (18)|
posted 02-04-2002 03:22 PM ET (US)
Was planning to move up from a Montauk to the
18 Outrage classic. Have found a '93 19' in very good condition. Pro and con on both hulls from those who have experienced the differences? My mian reason for changing is improved ride in chop.
posted 02-04-2002 03:47 PM ET (US)
My choice would be the classic 18, Sitter, which is the same length but over 450lb lighter. On the other hand the 19, at 1700lb, would probably ride smoother because of Newton, if nothing else.
Red sky at night. . .
posted 02-04-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)
Sitter- You complain about the ride in chop while in a 17'. Why not go up into the 20'plus class Whaler? I've had a recent experience that may help abit. I have a 22'86 Outrage- yes, I notice abit of a harsh ride in moderate to big chop, compared to a friends Proline and another Grady. Now, about a month ago I put on a set of Bennett Sport Tabs - been playing with them. Past Saturday/Sunday I learned how to set them so the Whaler attacks the chop and really smooths out the ride. My .03 but if you don't like the ride in the chop I'd add some hull weight-length and set the boat up with tabs. David
posted 02-04-2002 09:56 PM ET (US)
Sitter - What year is your Montauk and what kind of motor are you running on it? Some ride differently depending on year and size motor. Have you found an 18 yet?
posted 02-05-2002 12:22 AM ET (US)
If you are interested in a comparison between an 18-foot Outrage and a 19-foot Outrage II, you should read the articles contained as part of the RENDEZVOUS section.
The RENDEZVOUS section presents a narrative of four days of boating on four different boats, but three of them happen to be 18 or 19 Whalers.
In particular there is a very long section of remarks directed at the differences between the 18 and 19 foot versions of the Outrage and Outrage II boats.
See URL http://continuouswave.com/whaler/rendezvous/dayOne.html#outrage-II for a starting point.
You may also find reading the whole narrative interesting as it describes riding in the Outrages over a several 60-mile runs of open water in various conditions.
There are also many photographs that show the various 18 and 19 foot boats, often side by side. Those are especially interesting for comparisons.
I would be glad to answers any questions you have about the articles; you can post them to this thread as follow-ups.
posted 02-05-2002 08:43 AM ET (US)
Thanks for those prompt responses! ...
JBC - good point - would that amount of weight be noticable when trailering?
DR - I might have a couple of problems going
to a 22'... getting into my storage area due
to boat + trailer length and I also frequently launch and load by myself. Could
I handle a 22' alone?
Elv - my 17' is a '93 w/'93 90 Johnson ... have not found a suitable 18' ... have seen a
few on the web ... any good sources?
JimH - I'll read the comparison right away.
Thanks again to everyone for the input ...
posted 02-05-2002 12:13 PM ET (US)
Hi, babysitter -
I may know of an 18 for sale - see your email account for info. Thanks, Mav
posted 02-05-2002 02:16 PM ET (US)
Mav - thanks for the follow up ... I'll check my mail
posted 02-05-2002 06:47 PM ET (US)
I have an 1989 18' Outrage w/ 150 Yamaha. My fishing buddy has a 1993 19' Outrage with same power. Weight is big difference as second model has bigger console, post, rear seats, and larger storage, and bigger fuel capacity.
While the Hulls are quite similar, I do not believe they are the same. In particular, I think that the mold was retooled to accomodate the newer features, and I think the transom angle is different.
The biggest difference that we have observed in the two hulls is that the heavier, newer model Outrage boat has a tendency to porpoise in even slight chop. To smooth out ride, we apply negative trim, and when it gets choppy it requires full negative trim. This tendency to porpoise does not permit the boat to run in a trimmed out,efficient, position in even moderate chop conditions. Meeks Marine in Houston believes the changes in the newer hull from the older hull caused a big difference in performance. The two factors sighted that cause excess porpoise is difference in transom angle and also larger fuel tank that as it emptys tends to put the weight and CG further back in the hull.
In conclusion, I like my older 18 Outrage much better than newer version, much more versatile, and super handling boat. The only thing you give up to the bigger boat is a large console and extra storage, but that also takes up space and changes the ride, and draft.
I am interested in comments from others .......Disclaimer: I have not read article on differences. The comments above are sea trial observations and discussions with dealer.
posted 02-05-2002 08:04 PM ET (US)
Sitter- The 22' OR is not a problem doing yourself. The more you do it the easier it gets. Pops off quite easily. However, the length to store issue sounds fatal. David
posted 02-06-2002 08:53 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the input VDBG. Interesting comments on ride and handling ... it believe
the 18' has adequate storage for my use.
DR - the length probably is a deal killer ...
posted 02-06-2002 11:24 AM ET (US)
Need more advice! Have located an 18' with
130 4 stroke Honda (motor is less than 2 yrs old). Is this enough power?
posted 02-06-2002 07:16 PM ET (US)
Yes - Expect about 42mph.
posted 02-06-2002 08:52 PM ET (US)
Thanks lhg ... just as a point of comparison,
what would you expect with a 150 2 stroke
posted 02-07-2002 04:08 PM ET (US)
I would say 45-50, depending on engine brand (yes, it does make a difference when you're squeezing max speed) and how the engine is set up (transom height, setback, prop choice, etc.) The OMC and Merc 150HP 60 degree V-6's are definitely faster than than the other brands, and should do close to 50 set up properly.
posted 02-07-2002 05:12 PM ET (US)
lhg- seems like the 130 should indeed be
adequate - I like the added range and lack of fumes.
posted 02-07-2002 06:25 PM ET (US)
I love my '86 18' and her 2000 model Johnson Ocean-Pro 2-cycle 150. That said, she tops out at 48 mph on the gps with just me, a full tank, normal trim and the chop under 12". In slick-calm water and trimmed way up she's clocked 52 on the gps (Larry's dead on here). Nothing special to the rigging. A factor in my decision to seek out the older hull was all the deck space that Reebok and Brunswick sacrificed after 1991 to squeeze in amenities. Some of that stuff is nice, but for my purposes, deck space is king of the issues... once your in a Whaler, of course. Good luck.
posted 02-08-2002 07:45 AM ET (US)
Hi again, babysitter -
Hope your quest for Whaler knowledge is progressing well. It would appear some good folks and good information has come out here from your questions. That said, I'd like to comment on a couple things. First, as a repeat Whaler owner for many years, an "optimum" hull will probably outlast us humans. "Optimum" to me means never any hull damage/repair and original gelcoat, and prefereably no bottom paint. That is not to say that one that has bottom paint or one that has been repaired is not good, just not my first choice. Next comes the issue of spider cracks. Never been a structural problem or an issue outside of aesthetics in my experience, either for me or for any Whaler owner I have ever known. Commonly, I have seen many, if not most older Whalers with some "stress", or cosmetic spider cracks in the gelcoat. My 7 or so I've owned have had a few, and I can tell you that those cracks meant nothing when my butt was in the sling of a gale, or for that matter zipping at 50 mph from here to there. Once a buyer has gotten an optimum hull, then, the most important item in my opinion is "will the motor get me there and back"? I can't say enough about the huge expense and need for proven and reliable power. I believe that optimum hulls will always outlast the power, likely many times. In other words, find a good, solid hull with junk or no power on it, and repower new - OR shop for good power, but be prepared to pay for it - you'll get what you pay for in most cases. I personally like the 4 strokes, but the 2 strokes are typically lighter, faster, and been around awhile. I like that. Just my 2 cents. Can't advise you on the new hull vs Classic Outrage except that the Classic rocks, and is called a Classic for good reason. Best of luck on your search for that "right" package. Maverick
posted 02-08-2002 08:24 AM ET (US)
Thanks for your comments Maverick...based upon consensus, I'm limiting my search to
classic 18's ... in fact I've found one that seems to fit the bill, but I'm still a little
troubled by the gel coat issue. I've posed a
question in another post regarding restoration successes ... is chalked gelcoat on the 'non-optimum list'?
posted 02-08-2002 12:25 PM ET (US)
My 18 was a little chalked when I bought it, as were some of the others I've bought thru the years. Elbow grease and a good compund/wax always did the trick as the gelcoat on Whalers seems to be on the thick side. In fact, one of my Whalers had a name painted on the side in red letters, been there awhile. Nice name, I just think want one. I literally sanded it off (by hand) (wet sanded with 220 wet or dry paper, then 325 grit, then 400, then 600, then 1000, then buffed it with compound.) My arms ached for a couple days but it looked like new. Therefore chalking wouldn't concern me unless the price was way up there. As I indicated previously, my first rule is a solid undamaged hull, and either excellent power, or junk on the stern, which I'd replace with new, period. Then I'd get my buffer out. Best, Mav
posted 02-08-2002 10:03 PM ET (US)
Mav - thanks for the comments. I've got two
18's to look at - both 5 + hours away at opposite ends of the state ... leaning toward
the least well equipped but one that has been
garaged its whole life.
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