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Author Topic:   Going from an 18 to a 25
Tom Byrum posted 02-11-2002 12:50 AM ET (US)   Profile for Tom Byrum   Send Email to Tom Byrum  
Thinking of getting a bigger boat and would like to hear some plusses and minuses from you guys that have already moved up to a 22 or 25. The main reason for wanting a bigger boat is the pounding I take on the 18' I have now. Thinking of a 25' Frontier.
Peter posted 02-11-2002 07:43 AM ET (US)     Profile for Peter  Send Email to Peter     

I moved up from an 18 Outrage/150 Johnson to a 22 Revenge/225 Yamaha.

On the plus side, the 22 Revenge pounds less because of its increased length and weight and therefore its alot easier on the seated passengers, as expected. Obviously, with the reduced pounding, you don't feel as beat up at the end of a long boating day.

On the minus side, I have found that the additional weight and length of the 22 Revenge makes it less nimble than 18 Outrage, particularly when docking, and the 18 was much easier to trailer, again all as expected. Also, the 22 burns a little more fuel.

By analogy, the 18 Outrage's handling was almost sports car like, while the 22 Revenge's handling is more like an SUV. Much more anticipation is required to navigate safely at all speeds with the 22 but its handling is predictable and it tracks and pivots well.

All in all, I have found that the nearly 4 foot length difference between the 18 and 22 was a significant jump for me. When I decided to get a bigger Whaler, I looked at and tested both the 22 and 25 Revenge and decided that the 25 was simply too big for my needs at the time. The 25, in whatever flavor, clearly has more fishing room.

unsinkable_2000 posted 02-11-2002 08:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for unsinkable_2000  Send Email to unsinkable_2000     
Interestingly enough, I just sold my Outrage 18(1987) with a Johnson 150 over a year ago and upsized to a Frontier 25. I think you will definately find an improvement in terms of how it handles big water. In fact living on Lake Ontario can pose challenges and changes in weather regardless of any forecasters best predictions. If you can find a decent Frontier or similar, go for it. In my situation I had found a boat that though structurally sound, needed a cosmetic and electrical overhaul. I then found that trading up to a pair of twin Merc Optimax 150's, made this transition to a bigger boat much less painful at the gas pump than the old Johnson 140s allready on the boat,(these engines sip fuel, I am amazed) not to mention a lot more piece of mind when several miles offshore. The only thing I regret is having the portability of the Outrage. I will gladly talk with you further on this if you would like. Best of luck, Martin
reelescape1 posted 02-11-2002 08:38 AM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
Having gone from an 18'to a 19' to a 22'....I would like to find a 25' OR with whaler drive.
lhg posted 02-11-2002 10:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Tom - As you know, I did the same thing you are considering, for much the same reason, more fishability and more offshore capability.

The differences between the two boats is huge, literally and in performance. Fishing miles offhore, the 25 gives you great, comfortable fishing space, compared to the cramped floor space of the 18. It feels and handles like the much larger boat that it is, almost 3 times as heavy, and much more stable. Wave action is greatly reduced, and there is a much greater feeling of personal safety. I highly recommend a full transom model if you can find one, with the standard Outrage console used in the 18, and 400 HP. This is what I have, and the interior floor space is huge. Mills canvas is a nice addition to this boat for all weather capability also.

It looks huge on a trailer, but with my 12 keel roller setup, is no more difficult to launch and retrieve than the 18. Seriously.
It obviously is a heavier load behind the car, and towing speeds are not as high, more like 60-65 rather than 65-70. A REALLY good trailer, with 4 wheel disc brakes, is essential to accomplish this. But other than that, it's no big deal. As you know, I go all over the place with mine.

It's a great hull in offshore conditions, better than it's size would indicate. It has a much longer stride in running over the seas than the 18, and it's incredibly dry. I hardly ever get any spray, and have NEVER taken a wave over the bow. This is where the waterline hull length matters. The boat is truly beautiful when seen running in offshore seas. No other Outrage made will run with it, including the 27's. I understand that the someone in CPD told Louie Kokinis it was Whalers' best hull.

All this is one of the reasons they're so hard to find used. Owners tend to hold on to them. Go for it if you can find a good one.
I wouldn't recommend a "fixer upper special", as in a boat this big it'll be more than you bargained for. You'll be way ahead paying more for quality & condition, and waiting for the right one to come along. I think 87-90 were it's best years, when Whaler Drive was available. They made the boat through '93, but Reebock played them down in order to sell their new 23 Walkaround in it's place, so not many were sold.

Good luck to you if you decide to go ahead.

Louie Kokinis posted 02-11-2002 10:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Tom: If you have a good tow vehicle, and feel comfortable pulling a big boat - go for the 25, you will never regret it.

OTOH if trailering or storage is an issue, the 22 is a great boat. Either way, I agree with Larry that you should wait for a good straight boat.


lhg posted 02-11-2002 11:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Louie - Glad to hear you're still in the Whaler community! Was wondering if you'd deserted us for a Cabo.

Incidentally, speaking of hauling a 25, I'm tentatively planning to haul either the 18 or 25 out your way for a 10 day cruise up the BC coast to Port Hardy and back, and everything in between, around the 4th of July. Hoping to talk some of the other Midwest Whaler rendezvous guys into joining us.

Tom Byrum posted 02-12-2002 12:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Thanks everyone for the great advice as usual. Seems like everyone is happy moving up to a bigger boat. I will be too most likely.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-12-2002 02:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Been here every couple days - tough habit to break :)

I just entered "July 4th boating with Larry" into my daytimer. Don't know about 10 days, but I'd like to meet up with the group at some point.

As for the Cabo, I'm still looking for a good one with Cummins engines - but I will not be selling the Whaler.


NEVER SCARED posted 02-12-2002 04:20 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    
Hey Tom, did you see that clean 25' Frontier on Boattrader? The whole boat,trailor, and engine look nice! Even the skeg and props look good. Only problem is the keel between the "smirk" and water line theres 3 chunks missing! Oouch! What will you do with Little bear?
Tom Byrum posted 02-12-2002 09:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Larry did you get my email with the pic?
Louie I have a new Dodge Cummins to pull it with but the cabin and ride are what I am after most.
Never Scared can you email me the pics? When I tried Boat Trader it had 3 Frontiers but the only one with a pic did not have any damage.
Tom Byrum posted 02-12-2002 09:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
Little Bear is for sale but I think its sold already. That is if everything works out on a new one. I wont sell my 18 until I have a replacement. Kinda wierd deal. Wish I could keep it but one boat at a time for me. Larry has it made.
fireball posted 02-13-2002 03:05 AM ET (US)     Profile for fireball  Send Email to fireball     
The 22' is a world of difference from the 17 or 18-contrary to prior reports it is nimble quick and agile in heavy seas. Mine runs 55 mph in 4-6 ocean and does not beat you up. The nice thing is it can be trailered behind a car easily. It is my pick for the best whaler ever made.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-13-2002 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Fireball: I also love the 22 and agree that it is a very seaworthy hull. Itís true that depending on sea state (wave frequency) it is very capable of sustaining 35 + in open water ..but, the 25 will do better. Both the dealer and factory told me that the 25 is the best hull Whaler's made.

The good news is that the 22 was second to the 25, and the hull was praised by everyone I spoke to. Having said that, the 22 is perfect for my application. I can fit it in my garage (major plus), trailering it through the mountains doesnít cause anxiety attacks, itís agile enough to fish rocky areas with 3-4 foot breaking waves, and handles itself well 25+ miles offshore. IMO itís the best hull for my fishing needs.


witness posted 02-13-2002 01:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for witness  Send Email to witness     
We have owned and run both a 20 and 25 outrage in the ocean of DE recently I and can say that I liked both boats. I have always felt safe in both, but the performance and range I get from the 25 makes it much more of an ocean boat. On the chesapeake we have a 22' revenge with WD, that has always performed very nicely, much closer to the 25 than the 20' The range is not as long but the ride and comfort level is certainly much closer. Both the 22 and 25 have twins, the 20 did not, this also was a big difference in my mind. (side not: if anyone is interested, we are trying to sell the revenge due to lack of use.)
reelescape1 posted 02-13-2002 03:41 PM ET (US)     Profile for reelescape1  Send Email to reelescape1     
Fireball....I have to call BS on the 22' OR running 55 in TRUE 4' to 6' way. Even if they were 10 sec apart. I've been running a 22 for 3 years now, its 50+ miles to the fishing grounds and it wont run through 4 to 6 that fast. The 24 deg. deadrise boats yes, not the older Outrages.
Louie Kokinis posted 02-13-2002 06:12 PM ET (US)     Profile for Louie Kokinis    
Reelscape1: I know that 35 is sustainable offshore (depending on the wave frequency and direction of travel) but if it gets real snotty I usually slow down to 20 Ė25. We regularly run in the 50ís Ė but not for long in anything over a 2 ft chop. I think itís possible, definitely dangerous, really uncomfortable, but it can be done it short blasts.

I donít know about the east coast, but EVERYONE out here races back to the dock. Thereís been a few times when I pushed it, pounded my kidneys flat, and caught too much air, but my boats never seen the 50ís while traveling in 6 footers.


pist2348 posted 02-13-2002 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for pist2348    

Just made the switch to a 22' Outrage with a WD and twin 130's. Love the boat and a world of a difference from the 18' Outrage.
I am sure you will be happy with either boat.

Good luck

lhg posted 02-14-2002 04:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
My 25 definitely will not run 55mph in 4 to 6. More like 25 to 30 max.
Tom Byrum posted 02-14-2002 09:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
You guys are talking swells not wind waves. Swells are a piece of cake. I can run wide open with a 6' swell over 12 seconds or somewhere near it. 4' -6' wind waves are what kills you. My 18 will do around 8-10 mph and it will take me half a day to straighten up if I get caught out over 10 miles.
NEVER SCARED posted 02-15-2002 01:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    
Hi Tom

The 25' Frontier on Boat Trader is the one from Oxnard Ca. To see a pic, you have to click on the sellers site. She has twin 130 Mariners I think. What are you getting for Little bear?

NEVER SCARED posted 02-15-2002 03:03 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    

The boat is a 1988, and after zooming in the photo, there is NO damage. The 3 I indicated earlier were rollers!! Boat looks cherry. $44,000.

Smallfrye posted 02-15-2002 04:02 PM ET (US)     Profile for Smallfrye  Send Email to Smallfrye     
What kind of range do you all get with the 77gal fuel tank found in the 22OR ? I'm considering adding an under seat aux. tank for safety. My experiance with the fuel gauge on OR's is that a 15-20% error can occur when the fuel gets below 1/2/full.
(I run a pair of 135 merc, carb)
Tom Byrum posted 02-19-2002 12:40 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
N/S I am asking 15 for my 18. I am really starting to drag my feet on wanting to sell it though. I dont like the pilot house position on the one from Oxnard. Too close to the front of the boat. Sure is clean looking though. The one I am looking at is a 83 and the pilot house is more central positioned.
NEVER SCARED posted 02-19-2002 04:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for NEVER SCARED    
Hi Tom
I see you a lot around Benicia, Mare Island, Duxbury, and SF bay. We have the same hull. I really like my 18' and doubt if I would ever sell it. I do plan to buy something bigger with shelter maybe in my 50s! But the 18' is gonna stay! I also plan to get a smaller boat for the lakes! My friend John Badger went from a 19' to a 24' Orca and said he missed the smaller boat.
Tom Byrum posted 02-19-2002 11:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tom Byrum  Send Email to Tom Byrum     
My fishing buddy went from a Montauk to a 24'Grady. He used to be fishing every weekend just like me. Now he goes maybe 8 times a year. I named his boat the Getting Ready Grady. Thats what he does now. He spends all his time getting ready to go fishing instead od doing it.You named a lot of my favorite haunts. Say hi next time you see me.

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