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Author Topic:   Advice on used montauk

scotts152001 posted 03-29-2002 11:07 PM ET (US)
I put down a deposit on a 97 Montauk with a 90 hp 99 Evinrude Ficht and trailer today. It's a fresh water boat that is in pretty good condition. The motor was installed in 2000 along with a new hour meter, which says it has 97 hours. The original motor was replaced because it was a conventional two stroke, which you can't use at Lake Tahoe. The bow rail mount on the port side is broke loose, and there is a 2" chip out of the gel coat, otherwise it just needs to be cleaned up. The price is $14,500. I will be taking if for a test ride next week. Any advice on what I should pay special attention to? Anyone have experience with this year/model of engine? Thanks. I'm looking forward to joining the Whaler family after a year or so of getting educated on this site. Thanks a bunch. Scott
JBCornwell posted 03-29-2002 11:30 PM ET (US)
Howdy, Scotts.
Boat: The bow rail is a problem until remounted with 1/4" machine screws. The "official" BW fix works.
Engine: Bad year for Ficht injected engines in the V6 lines, but haven't heard any bad stuff about the V4s. My son-in-law has a '99 Johnson Ficht 150 V6 on his Outrage 17 and it does wierd stuff too often to suit me.
Price: Not bad for a fresh water boat, but I would ask for a lower price. I would question the Ficht a bit to get it.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
TightPenny posted 03-30-2002 05:40 PM ET (US)
Good luck with the boat. You will love it.
I have a 2000 that has had the official BW fix for the bow rail (done under warranty). Get the 1/4" machine screws and tap the whaleboard to accept the thread.
Don't wait until they break. Extraction of the broken screws is darn near impossible, based on what I saw my dealer go through on mine. They had to go as far as fabricate a new base for the bow support since they couldn't extract the screw stubs which broke off under the level of the gel coat.
mbking1 posted 03-30-2002 06:21 PM ET (US)
Price is a bit steep considering the engine. What does it have for electronics? Original bimini? extended warranty on engine? single or dual batts? If it were me, I would go no higher than 12.5K. Mark
JFM posted 03-30-2002 06:21 PM ET (US)
The engine is the down fall. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it will hurt the value. My local dealer still has 1999 Johnson's (not Ficht's) that he can't sell because that's the year OMC went bust. Parts may be hard to find. So I would use the motor as a strong reason for a price reduction. Regards, Jay
BabySitter posted 03-30-2002 07:10 PM ET (US)
Hi Scotts, I just purchased a Whaler w/98 Ficht. I'd heard alot of bad things about Ficht engines and did a fair amount of digging. There is good news and bad news about these - for info. try Tim, the service manager at Johnson Marine in Wilmington, NC - he's quite knowledgable about the Ficht engine. You'll love the Montauk !
PMUCCIOLO posted 03-31-2002 04:16 AM ET (US)
I suggest you review the thread titled "Ficht...fatal or curable" by Babysitter under the Performance section. Look down a bit on the thread at my quote of the information from a recent edition of Southern Boating.
I hope that this helps.
Paul
tabasco posted 03-31-2002 05:25 PM ET (US)
For another $3,000 you can own a brand new 2002-3 Montauk with a new 90 HP Mercury engine including trailer.
scotts152001 posted 03-31-2002 08:36 PM ET (US)
I was hoping that I could get a new Montauk for around $19,500 with a four stroke, but the dealers here want more like $22,000+, so the difference is pretty significant. I also want the lighter Montauk because I want to tow it behind a 5th wheel. The lighter older style hull and 2 stroke will be much easier to tow that the new hull and heavy 4 stroke. I'm thinking hard about this deal based on all I've heard about the Ficht. Thanks for all your input. Scott
STEPHEN posted 03-31-2002 08:49 PM ET (US)
Go with the new boat, you can always repower later after you kick the crap outta the duce-stroke!
andygere posted 04-01-2002 12:37 PM ET (US)
For California, the price doesn't seem too bad. Is it possible to purchase a 3rd party warranty on the motor as an insurance policy? Is there any transferrable warranty left on the motor?
Bigshot posted 04-01-2002 01:37 PM ET (US)
No warranty left or available on 99 or older OMC's. I looked when i bought my 99 this January.
Whalerdan posted 04-04-2002 01:20 PM ET (US)
There might be a warrenty available. If it was an aftermarket purchase. My 98 Evenrude that I bought last Feburary came with a warrenty. I got the transfer paper work in the mail a month or so ago, so I assume it will be good. I haven't double checked on it, but I assume, since they sent it in the mail it will be good. Other wise shy would they have bothered?
Bigshot posted 04-04-2002 01:53 PM ET (US)
I looked and found nothing.
gf posted 04-04-2002 02:36 PM ET (US)

I believe 'scotts' problem with the deal on the new Montauk with a new 90 2 stroke is that those motors are not allowed in CA.
I would not worry about the '99 FICHT 90, the V4s have been very reliable.
The price does sound a little high, but maybe not for CA. A friend of mine just bought a '96 Montauk with a '96 Johnson 88 for $12,000 in Maine.
triblet posted 04-04-2002 04:12 PM ET (US)
90 HP two-strokes ARE allowed in California.
There are a of couple lakes (most significantly
Tahoe) where they are not allowed.
Direct Injection two-strokes (like Ficht) are
allowed on Tahoe.

Chuck
scotts152001 posted 04-04-2002 08:00 PM ET (US)
Well guys I did it! I'm heading out Salmon fishing in Monterey Bay this weekend.
I talked to Tim at Johnson Marine (who was very helpful) and he said that he had seen very few problems with this engine. The problems he had seen were solved with the upgrade kit. I checked and the upgrade kit was installed before this unit left the shop. Because the warranty is expired I can't find an aftermarket warranty, but I'm willing to take the chance. I've been watching the market here in California and the Montauks are few and far between and this price seems pretty good compared to what I've seen over the last year.
Thanks for all your input. I very much appreciate it.
I'm now in the market for a T top, a rear seat and a Honda kicker. I'll do some looking over the forum for parts and also post a separate "lots of stuff wanted".
Bigshot posted 04-04-2002 09:02 PM ET (US)
You won't find a t-top for a Montauk nor do you want one. Boat is too small, get a bimini. get a small kicker that 90hp weighing in at 362lbs or whatever is already enough weight back there. The 5hp Honda would be plenty.
lhg posted 04-05-2002 02:24 PM ET (US)
Aren't California Whaler dealers selling the new Montauk 170 for the same $17,500? Hence a leftover "original" Montauk should be no more?
With any 99 Ficht, I would not go offshore without a "get me home" kicker. You took a BIG chance with that engine. There's a reason why you can't get an after market warranty for it. Bombardier themselves has said they were all (98 and 99's in particular) made with inferior parts and tolerences. Pauls advice to first research the situation was sound.
But anyway, enjoy your new boat and I hope the engine works out for you.
ratherwhalering posted 04-05-2002 03:03 PM ET (US)
I saw a T-top on a Montauk, and it was, well, ugly. I also recommend the Bimini top!
Bigshot posted 04-05-2002 03:51 PM ET (US)
Nice Larry!
Now the poor guy is gonna sweat everytime he turns the key. He'll never take it offshore and his blood pressure is gonna kill him.
99% of all Ficht problems were on the v6's mainly the 200-250's. The 75,90 &115's have virtually no issues.
mattr posted 04-05-2002 04:57 PM ET (US)
Hey gf!
I looked at that '96 montauk you mentioned your friend in Maine just bought. Very nice boat. One of the nicer used Montauks around the Portland area. I am jealous!
Glad someone locally picked it up. Does your friend know about this site yet? If not, I bet they will soon!
MattR
Marc posted 04-05-2002 05:00 PM ET (US)
I've seen t-tops at cabela's for about $500.00 that may work on a Montauk. I wouldn't put a T-Top on my Montauk though. I have a bimini but I never use it. It takes up too much space for me. I like to be able to walk around.
Regarding kickers....I have a Merc 9.9 4-stroke hanging of the transom. BS is right, don't put anymore weight back there than you need. I can do about 7mph with the Merc. You may be able to get the same with a smaller Honda depending on the weight.
Here's what customer service at Whaler told me when looking for a kicker motor: "All 17' models have wood molded into the upper transom areas to allow an auxiliary motor to be clamped directly onto. A long shaft engine should be used...The starboard side would probably help with weight distribution and torque roll offset." More than you asked for but hope this helps. Marc...

jimh posted 04-05-2002 08:08 PM ET (US)
Re Ficht Engines:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001558.html
jimh posted 04-05-2002 08:11 PM ET (US)
And here is another (positive) point of view:
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000355.html
GAwhale posted 04-05-2002 09:00 PM ET (US)
The second time I took out my Montauk, it was an overcast day and we were cruising around having a great time.
That evening my forehead was glowing. A combination of conceding my hairline is receding, and the wind blowing my hair back; I burned her pretty good.
Get the bimini, Scott. I use mine all the time in the HOT Georgia sun. Mine folds down very nicely in front of the front rail. I have a matching navy blue canvas zipper cover which which fits like a dream (I am almost postive it is a Mills bimmni).
andygere posted 04-08-2002 09:48 PM ET (US)
You won't find a new Montauk 170 for $17,500 anywhere in CA. In fact, I'm not sure you can get one without a 4 stroke. As far as I know, it's 4's or DFI (CARB approved) 2's only. For what it's worth, there's a Montauk of unknown vintage with a "new" Honda 90 advertised in Santa Cruz for $15K, which is pretty close to the asking price for Scott's boat.
Scott, if you are fishing Monterey Bay with any frequency, you'd be better off with a dodger than a bimini. Mine gets a lot of use out there.
scotts152001 posted 04-09-2002 12:05 AM ET (US)
Andygere - Thanks for the advice. I took my wife out in the bay this weekend for the first time. I know what you mean about the spray dodger as we didn't come in until after noon and it was a wet ride in. I assume that Mills is the place to go for the dodger?
You are right about the price of the new Montauk - The best price I was quoted was $24,000 with the 90 4 stroke.
andygere posted 04-09-2002 12:57 AM ET (US)
Scott, we trolled for Salmon until around 11 on Saturday morning, when it blew pretty good. We had a refreshing ride in as well, having opted to leave the dodger stowed. We also got skunked.....did you have any luck with the fish?
scotts152001 posted 04-10-2002 01:11 AM ET (US)
We couldn't seem to find the Salmon, so we rigged for Halibut and picked up a nice 25 pounder. Several boats limited out on salmon, but I think they were north in front of the Soldier's Club. Maybe next weekend.

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Author	Topic: Advice on used montauk
scotts152001	posted 03-29-2002 11:07 PM ET (US) I put down a deposit on a 97 Montauk with a 90 hp 99 Evinrude Ficht and trailer today. It's a fresh water boat that is in pretty good condition. The motor was installed in 2000 along with a new hour meter, which says it has 97 hours. The original motor was replaced because it was a conventional two stroke, which you can't use at Lake Tahoe. The bow rail mount on the port side is broke loose, and there is a 2" chip out of the gel coat, otherwise it just needs to be cleaned up. The price is $14,500. I will be taking if for a test ride next week. Any advice on what I should pay special attention to? Anyone have experience with this year/model of engine? Thanks. I'm looking forward to joining the Whaler family after a year or so of getting educated on this site. Thanks a bunch. Scott
JBCornwell	posted 03-29-2002 11:30 PM ET (US) Howdy, Scotts. Boat: The bow rail is a problem until remounted with 1/4" machine screws. The "official" BW fix works. Engine: Bad year for Ficht injected engines in the V6 lines, but haven't heard any bad stuff about the V4s. My son-in-law has a '99 Johnson Ficht 150 V6 on his Outrage 17 and it does wierd stuff too often to suit me. Price: Not bad for a fresh water boat, but I would ask for a lower price. I would question the Ficht a bit to get it. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
TightPenny	posted 03-30-2002 05:40 PM ET (US) Good luck with the boat. You will love it. I have a 2000 that has had the official BW fix for the bow rail (done under warranty). Get the 1/4" machine screws and tap the whaleboard to accept the thread. Don't wait until they break. Extraction of the broken screws is darn near impossible, based on what I saw my dealer go through on mine. They had to go as far as fabricate a new base for the bow support since they couldn't extract the screw stubs which broke off under the level of the gel coat.
mbking1	posted 03-30-2002 06:21 PM ET (US) Price is a bit steep considering the engine. What does it have for electronics? Original bimini? extended warranty on engine? single or dual batts? If it were me, I would go no higher than 12.5K. Mark
JFM	posted 03-30-2002 06:21 PM ET (US) The engine is the down fall. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but it will hurt the value. My local dealer still has 1999 Johnson's (not Ficht's) that he can't sell because that's the year OMC went bust. Parts may be hard to find. So I would use the motor as a strong reason for a price reduction. Regards, Jay
BabySitter	posted 03-30-2002 07:10 PM ET (US) Hi Scotts, I just purchased a Whaler w/98 Ficht. I'd heard alot of bad things about Ficht engines and did a fair amount of digging. There is good news and bad news about these - for info. try Tim, the service manager at Johnson Marine in Wilmington, NC - he's quite knowledgable about the Ficht engine. You'll love the Montauk !
PMUCCIOLO	posted 03-31-2002 04:16 AM ET (US) I suggest you review the thread titled "Ficht...fatal or curable" by Babysitter under the Performance section. Look down a bit on the thread at my quote of the information from a recent edition of Southern Boating. I hope that this helps. Paul
tabasco	posted 03-31-2002 05:25 PM ET (US) For another $3,000 you can own a brand new 2002-3 Montauk with a new 90 HP Mercury engine including trailer.
scotts152001	posted 03-31-2002 08:36 PM ET (US) I was hoping that I could get a new Montauk for around $19,500 with a four stroke, but the dealers here want more like $22,000+, so the difference is pretty significant. I also want the lighter Montauk because I want to tow it behind a 5th wheel. The lighter older style hull and 2 stroke will be much easier to tow that the new hull and heavy 4 stroke. I'm thinking hard about this deal based on all I've heard about the Ficht. Thanks for all your input. Scott
STEPHEN	posted 03-31-2002 08:49 PM ET (US) Go with the new boat, you can always repower later after you kick the crap outta the duce-stroke!
andygere	posted 04-01-2002 12:37 PM ET (US) For California, the price doesn't seem too bad. Is it possible to purchase a 3rd party warranty on the motor as an insurance policy? Is there any transferrable warranty left on the motor?
Bigshot	posted 04-01-2002 01:37 PM ET (US) No warranty left or available on 99 or older OMC's. I looked when i bought my 99 this January.
Whalerdan	posted 04-04-2002 01:20 PM ET (US) There might be a warrenty available. If it was an aftermarket purchase. My 98 Evenrude that I bought last Feburary came with a warrenty. I got the transfer paper work in the mail a month or so ago, so I assume it will be good. I haven't double checked on it, but I assume, since they sent it in the mail it will be good. Other wise shy would they have bothered?
Bigshot	posted 04-04-2002 01:53 PM ET (US) I looked and found nothing.
gf	posted 04-04-2002 02:36 PM ET (US) I believe 'scotts' problem with the deal on the new Montauk with a new 90 2 stroke is that those motors are not allowed in CA. I would not worry about the '99 FICHT 90, the V4s have been very reliable. The price does sound a little high, but maybe not for CA. A friend of mine just bought a '96 Montauk with a '96 Johnson 88 for $12,000 in Maine.
triblet	posted 04-04-2002 04:12 PM ET (US) 90 HP two-strokes ARE allowed in California. There are a of couple lakes (most significantly Tahoe) where they are not allowed. Direct Injection two-strokes (like Ficht) are allowed on Tahoe. Chuck
scotts152001	posted 04-04-2002 08:00 PM ET (US) Well guys I did it! I'm heading out Salmon fishing in Monterey Bay this weekend. I talked to Tim at Johnson Marine (who was very helpful) and he said that he had seen very few problems with this engine. The problems he had seen were solved with the upgrade kit. I checked and the upgrade kit was installed before this unit left the shop. Because the warranty is expired I can't find an aftermarket warranty, but I'm willing to take the chance. I've been watching the market here in California and the Montauks are few and far between and this price seems pretty good compared to what I've seen over the last year. Thanks for all your input. I very much appreciate it. I'm now in the market for a T top, a rear seat and a Honda kicker. I'll do some looking over the forum for parts and also post a separate "lots of stuff wanted".
Bigshot	posted 04-04-2002 09:02 PM ET (US) You won't find a t-top for a Montauk nor do you want one. Boat is too small, get a bimini. get a small kicker that 90hp weighing in at 362lbs or whatever is already enough weight back there. The 5hp Honda would be plenty.
lhg	posted 04-05-2002 02:24 PM ET (US) Aren't California Whaler dealers selling the new Montauk 170 for the same $17,500? Hence a leftover "original" Montauk should be no more? With any 99 Ficht, I would not go offshore without a "get me home" kicker. You took a BIG chance with that engine. There's a reason why you can't get an after market warranty for it. Bombardier themselves has said they were all (98 and 99's in particular) made with inferior parts and tolerences. Pauls advice to first research the situation was sound. But anyway, enjoy your new boat and I hope the engine works out for you.
ratherwhalering	posted 04-05-2002 03:03 PM ET (US) I saw a T-top on a Montauk, and it was, well, ugly. I also recommend the Bimini top!
Bigshot	posted 04-05-2002 03:51 PM ET (US) Nice Larry! Now the poor guy is gonna sweat everytime he turns the key. He'll never take it offshore and his blood pressure is gonna kill him. 99% of all Ficht problems were on the v6's mainly the 200-250's. The 75,90 &115's have virtually no issues.
mattr	posted 04-05-2002 04:57 PM ET (US) Hey gf! I looked at that '96 montauk you mentioned your friend in Maine just bought. Very nice boat. One of the nicer used Montauks around the Portland area. I am jealous! Glad someone locally picked it up. Does your friend know about this site yet? If not, I bet they will soon! MattR
Marc	posted 04-05-2002 05:00 PM ET (US) I've seen t-tops at cabela's for about $500.00 that may work on a Montauk. I wouldn't put a T-Top on my Montauk though. I have a bimini but I never use it. It takes up too much space for me. I like to be able to walk around. Regarding kickers....I have a Merc 9.9 4-stroke hanging of the transom. BS is right, don't put anymore weight back there than you need. I can do about 7mph with the Merc. You may be able to get the same with a smaller Honda depending on the weight. Here's what customer service at Whaler told me when looking for a kicker motor: "All 17' models have wood molded into the upper transom areas to allow an auxiliary motor to be clamped directly onto. A long shaft engine should be used...The starboard side would probably help with weight distribution and torque roll offset." More than you asked for but hope this helps. Marc...
jimh	posted 04-05-2002 08:08 PM ET (US) Re Ficht Engines: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001558.html
jimh	posted 04-05-2002 08:11 PM ET (US) And here is another (positive) point of view: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000355.html
GAwhale	posted 04-05-2002 09:00 PM ET (US) The second time I took out my Montauk, it was an overcast day and we were cruising around having a great time. That evening my forehead was glowing. A combination of conceding my hairline is receding, and the wind blowing my hair back; I burned her pretty good. Get the bimini, Scott. I use mine all the time in the HOT Georgia sun. Mine folds down very nicely in front of the front rail. I have a matching navy blue canvas zipper cover which which fits like a dream (I am almost postive it is a Mills bimmni).
andygere	posted 04-08-2002 09:48 PM ET (US) You won't find a new Montauk 170 for $17,500 anywhere in CA. In fact, I'm not sure you can get one without a 4 stroke. As far as I know, it's 4's or DFI (CARB approved) 2's only. For what it's worth, there's a Montauk of unknown vintage with a "new" Honda 90 advertised in Santa Cruz for $15K, which is pretty close to the asking price for Scott's boat. Scott, if you are fishing Monterey Bay with any frequency, you'd be better off with a dodger than a bimini. Mine gets a lot of use out there.
scotts152001	posted 04-09-2002 12:05 AM ET (US) Andygere - Thanks for the advice. I took my wife out in the bay this weekend for the first time. I know what you mean about the spray dodger as we didn't come in until after noon and it was a wet ride in. I assume that Mills is the place to go for the dodger? You are right about the price of the new Montauk - The best price I was quoted was $24,000 with the 90 4 stroke.
andygere	posted 04-09-2002 12:57 AM ET (US) Scott, we trolled for Salmon until around 11 on Saturday morning, when it blew pretty good. We had a refreshing ride in as well, having opted to leave the dodger stowed. We also got skunked.....did you have any luck with the fish?
scotts152001	posted 04-10-2002 01:11 AM ET (US) We couldn't seem to find the Salmon, so we rigged for Halibut and picked up a nice 25 pounder. Several boats limited out on salmon, but I think they were north in front of the Soldier's Club. Maybe next weekend.