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  Just picked up my new 16 daunltess

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Author Topic:   Just picked up my new 16 daunltess
controller posted 04-22-2002 11:49 AM ET (US)   Profile for controller   Send Email to controller  
Hi Guys,

I picked up my new Dauntless last Monday in Portland, Maine. It was 40 and rainy in the harbor, brrrrr.

I had it out on a lake yesterday and I just love it.

I have a few questions. Is there a way to prevent the bow from coming up so high on initial power? we had no weight in the back, 1 person on the bow. Also what rpm's should the boat run in?

I hope to have it in Old Lyme and in LI Sound the 1st weekend in May.

Thanks for all of the help.

Scott

tabasco posted 04-22-2002 12:15 PM ET (US)     Profile for tabasco  Send Email to tabasco     
Congrads on your new boat.

Hope to see you out on the sound this summer. Don't forget about our get together in July on the sound.

Chip posted 04-22-2002 05:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for Chip  Send Email to Chip     
Scott, the engine manufacturer sets the RPM range. Ideally, wide open throttle (WOP) should be in the upper half of the manufacturers maximum RPM. If for example, the manufacturer's recommended WOT range is
4500-5500 RPM, your WOT should be between 5000&5500 RPM.
B Bear posted 04-22-2002 06:54 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
First- Congrads on the boat.

Second- I forgot what you are running a 115 or 90, is the engine new and need a break in period?
If it is broken in then;
Where is the trim position when you push the throttle to WOT to get on plane?
When I get going I have the trim all the way down and I go to WOT in one swift move.
Once on plane I then make a choice on the speed I want to maintain while on plane and adjust the trim back up, this will depend on your engine and prop.

Bear

Ventura16 posted 04-22-2002 07:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for Ventura16  Send Email to Ventura16     
I highly recommend a Doel-Fin hydrofoil on your motor to give you less bow rise, faster planing, more trim range and ability to stay on plane at lower speeds...it worked great on my 16 Ventura...the same hull as your Dauntless.

Tom

lhg posted 04-22-2002 10:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
I've got to ask this question. What's wrong with the hull design that an aftermarket piece of plastic is needed on the engine to make it plane off properly, and at full throttle at that? I have never experienced this with any of the three Whalers that I have bought new. Both of my stern heavy twin engine Outrages plane off easily with minimum application of HP, only using about 2400RPM's max, and with little bow rise.
lhg posted 04-23-2002 02:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for lhg    
Further to the above, is it possible that the New Montauk is meant to do double duty and replace both the old Montauk and the 16 Dauntless, with it's apparent planing problems? There seems to be some overlap now that the Montauk is a little larger. Also, there seems to be rumors about a new 15 Sport one of these days. Then a new Outrage of some sort, in the 18/19 range seems to be needed, something smaller than the current new 21. Evidently the 23 Outrage is also being eliminated or re-done, as evidenced by the demise of the 23 Conquest. They signaled the same thing on the old 21 hull by first eliminating the 21 Conquest, then the 21 Outrage a year later. That would leave both the 18 Dauntless, not much of an offshore boat, and 22 Dauntless as in-between orphans. Wonder how long they'll last in the line? All of this is pure speculation, of course!
aubv posted 04-23-2002 08:29 AM ET (US)     Profile for aubv  Send Email to aubv     
Controller,

Best of luck with the new boat. Hope to meet at CT rendezvous.

I have to trim engine in all the way on 17' OR and then the boat pops up on plan if not the bow rises and the boat takes much longer to plan.

B Bear posted 04-23-2002 04:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Larry,
I have gotten on plane smothly with out the need to go WOT. I believe that if there is a design problem with the Dauntless 16 hull B.W. will have a "fix" for it.
As for the new Montauk it can certianly replace the Dauntless 16, but loses some of the advantages of the Dauntless design with the underdeck 40 gal fuel tank amoung other things. If you look closely on the new Montauk it shares the same console and adjustable bench back seat as the Dauntless 16, this helps reduce the cost overall. As you do know hull designs are give and take, there are always advantages and disadvantages, I believe that at this time there is no perfect hull that will excel at all conditions, uses, safety and ride. That a hull is a persoanal choice based on persoanl critira. Maybe a cat?
Bear
B Bear posted 04-23-2002 04:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for B Bear  Send Email to B Bear     
Also, bow rise is not unique to the Daunless line, it is common through out the industry otherwise there would ben no hydrofoils and trim tabs on the market.
Whaletosh posted 04-23-2002 04:48 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Men invented knives and axes after they discovered sharp wedged shaped rocks went through things easier than flat rocks did.

The same principles apply here. Deep V boats, regardless of make, tend to have more bow rise and difficullty planing. A V-shaped hull that has the V carried back through the stern is more easily pushed down into the water that is a hull that is flatter. Is this a design flaw? No. Is it a factor in the design that affects how a boat handles? Yes.

Why does a bow rise at all when the boat is powered up? I can think of two reasons. 1) Most objects when in a relatively free enviroment (water, air, space) will tend to move around the center of mass if acted on by a force that produces torque on the object. The center of mass on a boat is usually closer to the stern. So the bow rises more than the stern dips. 2) Look at the forces applied to your boat at power up. Your motor is applying a lot of force to the hull, but it is doing it at the end of a fairly long lever arm. Naturally this is going to twist the boat around the center of mass. A Deep V hull is going to have less resistnance to this rotation than a flatter hull. On All boats, as the boat planes other forces build to counteract the torque of the motor thrust, which is of course why the bow goes back down. Much as you hate them Larry, this explains why PWCs don't have as much bow rise. The thrust isn't applied at the end of long lever arm.

This seems to be something that certain Dauntless/Ventura 16 owners experience more so than Dauntless/Ventura 18/21/22 owners experience. Most of the affected owners have found solutions that cost very little.

I seem to remember that Clark Roberts uses Doel Fins on most of his boats, all of them of the classic design. I wouldn't assert that any of his boats have a design flaw. I would assume that with his many years of experience he has determeined that for him the Doel Fins make his boats perform the way he wants them to.

As far as I know, there are only two Dauntless 14 owners on this forum. Now that I have found the correct engine height and prop I have minimal bow rise and planing time. The boat has more bow rise than a Montauk, but I never have my vision blocked. Planing time is about the same. I don't have a hydrofoil. Is that what you experience Greg on your D 14?

russellbailey posted 04-23-2002 06:45 PM ET (US)     Profile for russellbailey  Send Email to russellbailey     
A minor followup.

Whaletosh asks, "Why specifically does the bow rise when you power up?" You are climbing over the bow wave, which is what separates a displacement hull (that is always pushing against the bow wave) from a planing hull.

And, as Whaletosh notes, some boats (like Deep V's) have a harder time getting over the bow wave than others. On the other end of the spectrum, a flatbottom jon boat has almost no rise.

BTW, I find the Doel Fin helps a lot on holeshot with our 15' Striper.

James posted 04-23-2002 07:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for James  Send Email to James     
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that I had read somewhere that non-factory parts (i.e. Doel Fin) voided the warranty on Mercury engines.

James.

Whaletosh posted 04-23-2002 07:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for Whaletosh    
Russ,

I stand by my assertions. Jumping up over the bow wave probably is more difficult for deep Vs and therefore part of the reason they plane more difficultly. But I have witnessed many deep Vs that have much more bow rise than can be accounted for by the bow wave. Many deep Vs squat don and raise the boat before any significant wave is formed.

More to the point, Congrats to controller. I hope this derailing of the converstation helps you to understand your initial inquiry and how to rectify it. This is quite common on deep Vs and easily corrected. Another aproach would be trim tabs. There are some inexpensive automatic tabs on the market called "Smart Tabs". Not as nice as regular trim tabs but a lot cheaper and would probably do the trick for you. West Marine carries them as does Boat US, I think, my memory is a little vague on this.


James,

The warranty won't be affected unless the add-on part caused the failer or intensified the failure. A failure in the ECM for example can't be blamed on a Doel-Fin.

Tallydon posted 04-23-2002 08:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tallydon  Send Email to Tallydon     
I put in the St. Marks River, Florida, and have to motor at idle speed about 1/3 of a mile before I can throttle my D16 to cruising speed. I have watched many boats punch it as they enter the wake zone and all of the deep vees have a pronounced bow rise. Jon boats and classic whalers don't have this characteristic. Once again, there are those out there will try to find some excuse to belittle or bemoan the new whalers. Ironically, the Montauk has now become a new whaler and their posts about the new model should be under the post-classics section.

My bow rise is no different than other deep vee boats that I have road in. The trade off, in a nutshell, a bow rise and softer ride versus little bow rise and a punishing ride. I'm happy with the more pleasurable ride out to the flats where fish fear me.

James posted 04-24-2002 10:49 PM ET (US)     Profile for James  Send Email to James     
Controller,

Please accept my Congratulations on your purchase.

I live near Dosil's Trailer Center on Rt. 36 and the last couple of days they have had a looks new, red-trimmed 16 ft. (I believe) Dauntless sitting on their lot, probably waiting to get fitted. I wish I had time to stop and look at it closely during the day. Anyways, it is a beautiful looking hull.

Best of Luck with it.

James.

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