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Author Topic:   Endurance Testing

knothead posted 06-10-2002 12:46 PM ET (US)
Well, "litin" finally got his prop off and new one on, so that he and I could take a little jaunt across Pamlico Sound to Ocracoke Island this past weekend. Both '87 Montauks and their respective motors ('87 'Rude and '01 Johnson)performed flawlessly on the trip, which was a little wild on the trip over.
Our major equiptment observation upon arrival was that the Miller, Michelob Light, and Diet Coke cans are not as structurally sound as Budweiser cans, with over half of the non Bud cans leaking from being pounded by ice cubes in the coolers.
Do any of you engineering types have an answer for this, for its' importance is at least equal to that, of say, transom delamination?
The ride back was great, by 2:00pm Sunday the northeast breeze had moderated, with the only cooler casualties being by consumption.
Great way to visit Ocracoke and Portsmouth Islands. Arriving by boat gives you a totally different perspective on the area.
knothead

Samars posted 06-10-2002 01:01 PM ET (US)
use crushed ice and not cubes....
Bigshot posted 06-10-2002 01:20 PM ET (US)
I stack the cans on the bottom of the cooler, lids up. Then I dump ice on top. The ice weight keeps the cans in place for a few hours until melting occurs. Once melting does occur, the sharp edges are worn anyway. nothing worse than alcohol cassualties while on a boat.
Whaler Proud posted 06-10-2002 01:41 PM ET (US)
I find the issue with the cans very surprising. The Bud and Michelob cans are manufactured by Anheuser-Busch, so should be the same specifications. On occasion, AB manufactures the cans for Miller and Coke but at the very least, the Miller and Coke cans are made to the same specifications as the AB cans.
Crushed ice and storage lids up are definitely the answer for this problem. Aluminum cans are designed to withstand the extreme pressure placed on them while stacked on pallets during transport and storage. You can test this out by standing on the top of an undented empty can. It will hold your body weight until the sides are pressed in just a bit at which point the can will collapse flat.
I find the best cure to be consuming the contents before puncture becomes an issue. You will, however, have to surrender your pilot duties to do this:)
simonmeridew posted 06-10-2002 07:07 PM ET (US)
Knothead:
I trailer my Montauk to Ocracoke for a week of vacation in April. We fish in the breakers outside of the inlet, also in the channel next to Portsmouth, Wallace channel and Teach's Hole. You didn't by any chance try and take the shortcut from Ocracoke harbor to Portsmouth across the skinny water? One of these years I'm going to learn where the sandbars aren't. Till then I go all the way out to Bouy 18 and make a wide turn west towards Portsmouth. The guys who do the tours to Portsmouth(sort of a private ferry service)go steaming with their deep vee hulls through the shoals like there was bouys every 50 feet. I've never been right there so that I could follow them and get a good GPS trail. One of these years....
simonmeridew
Done Fudgin posted 06-10-2002 07:08 PM ET (US)
Miller and Mich.lite is brewed differently than Bud.The fermentation process from these produce more carbonation,more air thus more suds. When the cans are tossed around more pressure builds up in the can and any rough or solid protrusion could rupture the can....burrrrp! This is my observation,my family was in the liquor buisness for 40 years.Many beer stains on pant legs when stacking cases! I can't recall a problem with Diet Coke,we sold more beer than anything else.
Tom W Clark posted 06-10-2002 08:27 PM ET (US)
Cubed ice in the bow locker of a Montauk or an Outrage is VERY hard on food and drink stored there if the going gets rough. Crushed or shaved ice is much better but far less available.
I've holed many a can of beverage in the past and learned the best thing to do is buy in bottles. Although your intuition may tell you otherwise, bottles are MUCH stronger than cans in terms of puncture resistance while on ice.
Dave Adams posted 06-10-2002 08:46 PM ET (US)
This is one of the top ten threads ever!
I suugest replacing cooler with keg---strong, stable, and never any capacity issues.
Also makes good mooring cover when empty
andygere posted 06-10-2002 09:26 PM ET (US)
Actually,
A-B and Miller both make their own cans and also contract with can manufacturers to produce them, often in a plant adjacent to the brewery. The tops of the cans may in fact be made on different equipment or even be a different design.
-Son of a can maker....
Dick posted 06-10-2002 10:20 PM ET (US)
Oh for the good old days when it took a real man to do a one handed beer can crush. No puncture problems back then.
knothead posted 06-11-2002 10:50 AM ET (US)
OK Guys
Here's the deal. The cooler was loaded as per Big Shot's specifications along with 3 one gallon containers of frozen water. All items were randomly dispersed on the bottom of the cooler. Three bags of cubed ice were added 15 min. prior to launch. 3 1/2 hours later the casuality rate was 1 Bud (half of which was consumed on the trip over). Cooler casualities are as follows: 9 out of 12 Millers, 5 out of 18 Mich lites, 2 out of 6 Diet Cokes, 0 out of 12 Buds, wine, rum,and tonic water bottles survived intact.
Therefore, with crushed ice being generally unavailable(it also melts too quick),one must conclude that the beverage of choice in cans for rough water conditions is Budweiser. It's not light beer so I guess they make the cans out of heavier material.
Simonmeridew: I know what you mean, I went the same way as you did to Portsmouth, then heading back to the mainland went down Wallace Channel till it ended, drifted across the shoal, ran around Royal Shoal and went home. No GPS, just chart and compass. DR'ed the trip.
knothead
prj posted 06-11-2002 02:10 PM ET (US)
interesting aside, yet similar to the findings of knothead, not only is bud the choice for rough water, but fishing trips in general.
through extensive and exhaustive research, my fishing buddies and i have determined, much to our chagrine, that bud is, in fact, boat beer.
being in wisconsin, we have no lack of good quality brews, but have found out that many suffer dramatically when subject to radical temperature variations. not budweiser. its a fairly bad beer to start with and it suffers not at all when forgotten on the gunnel and sipped after baking in the sun. pabst, our pilsner of choice, radically declines in quality when exposed to temperature swings upward.
so bud it is for both can durability and staying power in the sun.
13sport posted 06-11-2002 02:20 PM ET (US)
In other words, Bud tastes like crap to begin with. How can you tell when its spoiled?
Macman posted 06-11-2002 02:53 PM ET (US)
Wow! Knothead, that must have been one rough trip! I have never had that problem, ever. I pack that cooler tight and off we go. I have heard of people complaining about the Montauk ride( I have one, I don't mind it)but breaking beer....that's heinous! Time for an Outrage, eh?
Whaler Proud posted 06-11-2002 02:54 PM ET (US)
Bud tastes the same fresh or spoiled. Must be the beechwood aging.
Bigshot posted 06-11-2002 02:59 PM ET (US)
Bud is ALREADY skunked so it always remains constant:) I have on a bad day broke maybe 2 cans, and I drive like a complete jerk!
knothead posted 06-11-2002 03:49 PM ET (US)
Yes--- It was a little rough as evidenced by the lack of beer consumption on the trip over.
I brought this up because I'd never had it happen before either,in this quantity. I suppose the moral of this story is that bad canned beer is better than no canned beer.
knothead
litnin posted 06-11-2002 04:33 PM ET (US)
Yes it was a rough trip over. Although I never felt threatened, it was interesting to observe another Montauk from 25 feet away getting pounded just like I was. Like watching a movie, it was great! My crew and I spent a lot of time saying " WOW, DID YOU SEE THAT!!!!
When I got home Sunday night, I discovered three more casualty cans.
litnin posted 06-11-2002 04:35 PM ET (US)
By the way, I spent a lot of time saying to myself that I was glad that my wife wasn't there. Would have never heard the end of it.
Bigshot posted 06-11-2002 04:36 PM ET (US)
Well...if I ever do the trip to Bimini, I'll use Heineken KEG cans or Bud. Miller won't survive the pass.....bummer(great taste....less filling).

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Author	Topic: Endurance Testing
knothead	posted 06-10-2002 12:46 PM ET (US) Well, "litin" finally got his prop off and new one on, so that he and I could take a little jaunt across Pamlico Sound to Ocracoke Island this past weekend. Both '87 Montauks and their respective motors ('87 'Rude and '01 Johnson)performed flawlessly on the trip, which was a little wild on the trip over. Our major equiptment observation upon arrival was that the Miller, Michelob Light, and Diet Coke cans are not as structurally sound as Budweiser cans, with over half of the non Bud cans leaking from being pounded by ice cubes in the coolers. Do any of you engineering types have an answer for this, for its' importance is at least equal to that, of say, transom delamination? The ride back was great, by 2:00pm Sunday the northeast breeze had moderated, with the only cooler casualties being by consumption. Great way to visit Ocracoke and Portsmouth Islands. Arriving by boat gives you a totally different perspective on the area. knothead
Samars	posted 06-10-2002 01:01 PM ET (US) use crushed ice and not cubes....
Bigshot	posted 06-10-2002 01:20 PM ET (US) I stack the cans on the bottom of the cooler, lids up. Then I dump ice on top. The ice weight keeps the cans in place for a few hours until melting occurs. Once melting does occur, the sharp edges are worn anyway. nothing worse than alcohol cassualties while on a boat.
Whaler Proud	posted 06-10-2002 01:41 PM ET (US) I find the issue with the cans very surprising. The Bud and Michelob cans are manufactured by Anheuser-Busch, so should be the same specifications. On occasion, AB manufactures the cans for Miller and Coke but at the very least, the Miller and Coke cans are made to the same specifications as the AB cans. Crushed ice and storage lids up are definitely the answer for this problem. Aluminum cans are designed to withstand the extreme pressure placed on them while stacked on pallets during transport and storage. You can test this out by standing on the top of an undented empty can. It will hold your body weight until the sides are pressed in just a bit at which point the can will collapse flat. I find the best cure to be consuming the contents before puncture becomes an issue. You will, however, have to surrender your pilot duties to do this:)
simonmeridew	posted 06-10-2002 07:07 PM ET (US) Knothead: I trailer my Montauk to Ocracoke for a week of vacation in April. We fish in the breakers outside of the inlet, also in the channel next to Portsmouth, Wallace channel and Teach's Hole. You didn't by any chance try and take the shortcut from Ocracoke harbor to Portsmouth across the skinny water? One of these years I'm going to learn where the sandbars aren't. Till then I go all the way out to Bouy 18 and make a wide turn west towards Portsmouth. The guys who do the tours to Portsmouth(sort of a private ferry service)go steaming with their deep vee hulls through the shoals like there was bouys every 50 feet. I've never been right there so that I could follow them and get a good GPS trail. One of these years.... simonmeridew
Done Fudgin	posted 06-10-2002 07:08 PM ET (US) Miller and Mich.lite is brewed differently than Bud.The fermentation process from these produce more carbonation,more air thus more suds. When the cans are tossed around more pressure builds up in the can and any rough or solid protrusion could rupture the can....burrrrp! This is my observation,my family was in the liquor buisness for 40 years.Many beer stains on pant legs when stacking cases! I can't recall a problem with Diet Coke,we sold more beer than anything else.
Tom W Clark	posted 06-10-2002 08:27 PM ET (US) Cubed ice in the bow locker of a Montauk or an Outrage is VERY hard on food and drink stored there if the going gets rough. Crushed or shaved ice is much better but far less available. I've holed many a can of beverage in the past and learned the best thing to do is buy in bottles. Although your intuition may tell you otherwise, bottles are MUCH stronger than cans in terms of puncture resistance while on ice.
Dave Adams	posted 06-10-2002 08:46 PM ET (US) This is one of the top ten threads ever! I suugest replacing cooler with keg---strong, stable, and never any capacity issues. Also makes good mooring cover when empty
andygere	posted 06-10-2002 09:26 PM ET (US) Actually, A-B and Miller both make their own cans and also contract with can manufacturers to produce them, often in a plant adjacent to the brewery. The tops of the cans may in fact be made on different equipment or even be a different design. -Son of a can maker....
Dick	posted 06-10-2002 10:20 PM ET (US) Oh for the good old days when it took a real man to do a one handed beer can crush. No puncture problems back then.
knothead	posted 06-11-2002 10:50 AM ET (US) OK Guys Here's the deal. The cooler was loaded as per Big Shot's specifications along with 3 one gallon containers of frozen water. All items were randomly dispersed on the bottom of the cooler. Three bags of cubed ice were added 15 min. prior to launch. 3 1/2 hours later the casuality rate was 1 Bud (half of which was consumed on the trip over). Cooler casualities are as follows: 9 out of 12 Millers, 5 out of 18 Mich lites, 2 out of 6 Diet Cokes, 0 out of 12 Buds, wine, rum,and tonic water bottles survived intact. Therefore, with crushed ice being generally unavailable(it also melts too quick),one must conclude that the beverage of choice in cans for rough water conditions is Budweiser. It's not light beer so I guess they make the cans out of heavier material. Simonmeridew: I know what you mean, I went the same way as you did to Portsmouth, then heading back to the mainland went down Wallace Channel till it ended, drifted across the shoal, ran around Royal Shoal and went home. No GPS, just chart and compass. DR'ed the trip. knothead
prj	posted 06-11-2002 02:10 PM ET (US) interesting aside, yet similar to the findings of knothead, not only is bud the choice for rough water, but fishing trips in general. through extensive and exhaustive research, my fishing buddies and i have determined, much to our chagrine, that bud is, in fact, boat beer. being in wisconsin, we have no lack of good quality brews, but have found out that many suffer dramatically when subject to radical temperature variations. not budweiser. its a fairly bad beer to start with and it suffers not at all when forgotten on the gunnel and sipped after baking in the sun. pabst, our pilsner of choice, radically declines in quality when exposed to temperature swings upward. so bud it is for both can durability and staying power in the sun.
13sport	posted 06-11-2002 02:20 PM ET (US) In other words, Bud tastes like crap to begin with. How can you tell when its spoiled?
Macman	posted 06-11-2002 02:53 PM ET (US) Wow! Knothead, that must have been one rough trip! I have never had that problem, ever. I pack that cooler tight and off we go. I have heard of people complaining about the Montauk ride( I have one, I don't mind it)but breaking beer....that's heinous! Time for an Outrage, eh?
Whaler Proud	posted 06-11-2002 02:54 PM ET (US) Bud tastes the same fresh or spoiled. Must be the beechwood aging.
Bigshot	posted 06-11-2002 02:59 PM ET (US) Bud is ALREADY skunked so it always remains constant:) I have on a bad day broke maybe 2 cans, and I drive like a complete jerk!
knothead	posted 06-11-2002 03:49 PM ET (US) Yes--- It was a little rough as evidenced by the lack of beer consumption on the trip over. I brought this up because I'd never had it happen before either,in this quantity. I suppose the moral of this story is that bad canned beer is better than no canned beer. knothead
litnin	posted 06-11-2002 04:33 PM ET (US) Yes it was a rough trip over. Although I never felt threatened, it was interesting to observe another Montauk from 25 feet away getting pounded just like I was. Like watching a movie, it was great! My crew and I spent a lot of time saying " WOW, DID YOU SEE THAT!!!! When I got home Sunday night, I discovered three more casualty cans.
litnin	posted 06-11-2002 04:35 PM ET (US) By the way, I spent a lot of time saying to myself that I was glad that my wife wasn't there. Would have never heard the end of it.
Bigshot	posted 06-11-2002 04:36 PM ET (US) Well...if I ever do the trip to Bimini, I'll use Heineken KEG cans or Bud. Miller won't survive the pass.....bummer(great taste....less filling).