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Author Topic:   90 Honda 4 stroke enough on 21 Outrage?

JDH posted 07-10-2002 12:17 PM ET (US)
Saw a boat for sale, with a 99 90 Honda 4 stroke. Boat is a 72 21' Outrage.
Enough Power?
What would the motor alone be worth?
gf posted 07-10-2002 02:48 PM ET (US)

No, not enough power. Sure it doesn't have two? A lightly used '99 Honda 90 should fetch around $6000.
RMBW posted 07-10-2002 03:25 PM ET (US)
You are under powered with this 90 HP. Mike
russellbailey posted 07-10-2002 03:43 PM ET (US)
This is the old style Outrage that does not take much power. I recall postings by Clark Roberts of using his same-hull 21 Revenge with a 90 Merc with no problems. He is probably one of your best contacts on how that hull shape would perform with relatively low power.
Orca posted 07-10-2002 11:49 PM ET (US)
underowered.
Orca posted 07-10-2002 11:52 PM ET (US)
Underpowered. Rated for 200 hp.
goldstem posted 07-11-2002 11:35 AM ET (US)
marginally powered.
although rated for 200hp they could be really scary. and unless flat calm you would never go that fast.
the old 21 will plane on that power, if lightly loaded, and will probably top out at around 25mph. when the waves kick up you don't even want to go that fast.
I'm powered with an ancient 140 evinrude (more like a 115). and will oneday repower with 115-140 (current dream is the suzuki 140 4 stroke.
Tom W Clark posted 07-11-2002 11:43 AM ET (US)
That boat will be OK. A modern 90 hp motor should pus an Outrage 21 to about 35 mph. The 1974 Whaler catalog lists a speed of 32 mph with an 85 hp and 38 mph with a 115.
Remember motors back then were powerhead rated and a modern prop shaft rated 90 will perform much like a 115 from back then.
Minimum hp to plane satisfactorily is only 65, so 90 should be just fine.
I have also read Clark Roberts comment that the 21 performed well with a 90.
JDH posted 07-11-2002 02:17 PM ET (US)
Owner claims it Cruises at 26MPH.
I Cruise at 32MPH on my Classic 17 w/Suzuki 75.
Seems like a good price though, but I am too poor to buy it.
JBCornwell posted 07-11-2002 03:47 PM ET (US)
Many of those old 21 ORs were originally rigged with twin Bearcat 55s.
Subtract 10hp for powerhead rating, 10 more for the drag of the extra lower end and, VIOLA!! 90hp equivalent.
I think it would do just fine with the BF90.
Red sky at night. . .
JB :)
Clark Roberts posted 07-11-2002 04:18 PM ET (US)
Tom is correct, my 21 Revenge 1979 performed quite well with a Merc 90 (84 cubic inch) which I ran for over two years... several 300 mile plus trips included and top speed was around 35-36mph... mileage was about 3-3.5mpg cruising at 4400 rpm and about 28 mph. I won no races at all but big deal... it was smooth, quiet and light weight! Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
crashq posted 07-15-2002 06:14 PM ET (US)
Were the hulls on the 1970's vintage Outrages that much different from the early 1980's hulls? I have an '83 Outrage 18 with an '83 Evinrude 140. It goes great guns (47mph) with a full fuel load, two batteries, and two people, but it slows noticeably with a couple extra people (no guess on actual speed change, though). If I remember correctly, the minimum recommended horsepower for it was 115, with an absoute minimum of 90. I also remember reading that the min. hp level required for planing was 70 (could be early onset Alzheimer's on that one, though). I definitely would not go below 115 on my boat.
Clark Roberts posted 07-16-2002 07:51 AM ET (US)
Cras, the 70's outrages/revenges are TOTALLY
different from the 80's! They are shallower draft/less deadrise/lower freeboard etc...etc... and light for their length and very high on reserve capacity (5000lbs) ... Whaler defines this as the weight the hull will support when filled with water... They are easy to power and easy to plane and handling is tight and predictable... the ride is less soft than the later (1980's and later) but that's the price for the shallow draft...and lower deadrise... I pick a speed to match wave conditions and have never had a "ride" problem.... Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy

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Author	Topic: 90 Honda 4 stroke enough on 21 Outrage?
JDH	posted 07-10-2002 12:17 PM ET (US) Saw a boat for sale, with a 99 90 Honda 4 stroke. Boat is a 72 21' Outrage. Enough Power? What would the motor alone be worth?
gf	posted 07-10-2002 02:48 PM ET (US) No, not enough power. Sure it doesn't have two? A lightly used '99 Honda 90 should fetch around $6000.
RMBW	posted 07-10-2002 03:25 PM ET (US) You are under powered with this 90 HP. Mike
russellbailey	posted 07-10-2002 03:43 PM ET (US) This is the old style Outrage that does not take much power. I recall postings by Clark Roberts of using his same-hull 21 Revenge with a 90 Merc with no problems. He is probably one of your best contacts on how that hull shape would perform with relatively low power.
Orca	posted 07-10-2002 11:49 PM ET (US) underowered.
Orca	posted 07-10-2002 11:52 PM ET (US) Underpowered. Rated for 200 hp.
goldstem	posted 07-11-2002 11:35 AM ET (US) marginally powered. although rated for 200hp they could be really scary. and unless flat calm you would never go that fast. the old 21 will plane on that power, if lightly loaded, and will probably top out at around 25mph. when the waves kick up you don't even want to go that fast. I'm powered with an ancient 140 evinrude (more like a 115). and will oneday repower with 115-140 (current dream is the suzuki 140 4 stroke.
Tom W Clark	posted 07-11-2002 11:43 AM ET (US) That boat will be OK. A modern 90 hp motor should pus an Outrage 21 to about 35 mph. The 1974 Whaler catalog lists a speed of 32 mph with an 85 hp and 38 mph with a 115. Remember motors back then were powerhead rated and a modern prop shaft rated 90 will perform much like a 115 from back then. Minimum hp to plane satisfactorily is only 65, so 90 should be just fine. I have also read Clark Roberts comment that the 21 performed well with a 90.
JDH	posted 07-11-2002 02:17 PM ET (US) Owner claims it Cruises at 26MPH. I Cruise at 32MPH on my Classic 17 w/Suzuki 75. Seems like a good price though, but I am too poor to buy it.
JBCornwell	posted 07-11-2002 03:47 PM ET (US) Many of those old 21 ORs were originally rigged with twin Bearcat 55s. Subtract 10hp for powerhead rating, 10 more for the drag of the extra lower end and, VIOLA!! 90hp equivalent. I think it would do just fine with the BF90. Red sky at night. . . JB :)
Clark Roberts	posted 07-11-2002 04:18 PM ET (US) Tom is correct, my 21 Revenge 1979 performed quite well with a Merc 90 (84 cubic inch) which I ran for over two years... several 300 mile plus trips included and top speed was around 35-36mph... mileage was about 3-3.5mpg cruising at 4400 rpm and about 28 mph. I won no races at all but big deal... it was smooth, quiet and light weight! Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy
crashq	posted 07-15-2002 06:14 PM ET (US) Were the hulls on the 1970's vintage Outrages that much different from the early 1980's hulls? I have an '83 Outrage 18 with an '83 Evinrude 140. It goes great guns (47mph) with a full fuel load, two batteries, and two people, but it slows noticeably with a couple extra people (no guess on actual speed change, though). If I remember correctly, the minimum recommended horsepower for it was 115, with an absoute minimum of 90. I also remember reading that the min. hp level required for planing was 70 (could be early onset Alzheimer's on that one, though). I definitely would not go below 115 on my boat.
Clark Roberts	posted 07-16-2002 07:51 AM ET (US) Cras, the 70's outrages/revenges are TOTALLY different from the 80's! They are shallower draft/less deadrise/lower freeboard etc...etc... and light for their length and very high on reserve capacity (5000lbs) ... Whaler defines this as the weight the hull will support when filled with water... They are easy to power and easy to plane and handling is tight and predictable... the ride is less soft than the later (1980's and later) but that's the price for the shallow draft...and lower deadrise... I pick a speed to match wave conditions and have never had a "ride" problem.... Happy Whalin'... Clark... Spruce Creek Navy