Warning to late model Montauk owners - Moderated Discussion Areas

  ContinuousWave
  Whaler
  Moderated Discussion Areas
  ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
  Warning to late model Montauk owners

search | FAQ | profile | register | author help

Author Topic:   Warning to late model Montauk owners

wpr posted 07-24-2002 06:33 PM ET (US)
If you own a late model Montauk please take the time to read this.
I just sold my Montauk this week. I came across a problem with the hull that I just could not live with. My Montauk had a tube that went through the forward wall of the transom slash well. The bilge pump was connected to this tube and bilge water was pumped through it. The exit of the tube was covered with a chrome baffle used to direct the water down into the splash well. Once bilge water was pumped into the well it drains out through the transom.
The problem: By chance I removed the chrome baffle and noticed the tube did not extend all of the way through the wall into the splash well. You guessed it – The bilge water was being pumped into the FOAM! It had eroded the foam the area about the size a your fist. Once I dried the area out, it seemed the foam was very dry. It did not seem to have absorbed any water. This is good, however I just could not live with the boat wondering if the water had drained to the bottom of the hull. Chances are everything was fine but this was not the level of craftsmanship I had come to expect from Whaler.
If your boat is equipped as mine was, I would suggest you pull that cover and check it. I’m sure it is fine but check it to be sure. If for some reason mine was a fluke I sure would like to know.
I am now in the market for another Whaler – Maybe one a little older than the one I bought.
Sending up a red flare....
-Bill

Hoop posted 07-24-2002 06:45 PM ET (US)
Bill,
Sorry to hear about your problem. I'm inclined to think that you experienced something that the dealer did, not the factory. The bilge pump was a dealer-installed option. My dealer installed my bilge pump with a flexible hose that goes up and around the splash well and drains over the transom.
Hoop
2000 Montauk "Ainoa"
Taylor posted 07-24-2002 07:09 PM ET (US)
That's a feature I was going to add to my Montauk, but I'd assumed that the way it was done at the factory was to run a plastic 90 degree tube/thruhull through the spashwall, calk or glue it in and then cut off the aft end flush with the surface. I have not done it yet because I was not sure the part I had would go all the way through.
GAwhale posted 07-24-2002 07:16 PM ET (US)
The bilge pump on my 2001 Montauk was factory installed just as wpr described.
I will check it out the next time I go to the lake.
wpr posted 07-24-2002 07:32 PM ET (US)
My fix for the installation: I place a 90 degree fitting on the inboard side - as was the original installation. I kept the tube long on the splash well side but where the dealer or BW simply stopped there I cut a fitting at the same angle as the splashwell and then melted the tube and fitting together as a single unit using the proper glue. This created a stop that would not let the tube retract into the hull. This assembly was then bedded as a fitting on a 23 thousand dollar boat should be bedded. Finially I installed the chrome cover (bedding those screws as well).
Personally I do not like the idea of running the bilge pump through the splashwell (for reasons already stated) However- The whole idea in restricting the water flow by forcing it into a smaller diameter tube and then by changing the flow of water 90 degrees seems to me to be very unsafe. If I need to clear the deck of water I want to do it fast and efficently - and NOW.
I don't know boys....
good luck -Bill
Dick posted 07-24-2002 08:46 PM ET (US)
Simply leave the plug out and get rid of the water the way it used to be done.
John O posted 07-24-2002 10:15 PM ET (US)
on my '88 Newtauk I ran black flexable tub over inner splash well wall and exited through port side drain hole in transom. i leave starboard drain hole unpluged at all times. i used marine tex to secure tube into port brass fitting. What is the down-side of this system?
Kelly posted 07-25-2002 09:46 AM ET (US)
Since the cables for the motor come out of the tunnel anyway, I just got a flexible piece of tubing made for bilge pumps. I think it was less that $1 per foot. I attached it to the bilge pump and used plastic ties to run it with the motor cables. It discharges over the transom, which is where I want bilge water to go anyway. Kelly
Shoreman posted 07-25-2002 09:48 AM ET (US)
Bill,
Thanks for your post. I have the same bilge pump set-up on my '89 Montauk. I removed the chrome baffle and found that my installation is fine. The tube running through the forward wall of the splashwell is the proper length and well sealed.
Thanks again.
Steve
Bigshot posted 07-25-2002 11:09 AM ET (US)
I have never seen that setup, nor do I think it is factory. Anyone?
Salmon Tub posted 07-25-2002 11:55 AM ET (US)
It is not factory, it is a dealer (Wile-E-Coyote, super genius Idea). There is an old saying that should be adheared to, leave well enough alone. Why anyone would want to poke a hole in that wall to route the bilge pump hose is beyond me. Lets face it, it may look a little neater, but it still is visible so why do it?
Wpr, when you looked at the boat in the showroom, did it already have this set-up or did the dealer say that he could rig the pump so that it would be neat and clean? What year is your boat? I assume it is rather new, and I would have gone back to him to have him fix his mistake. Things like this help give the boat a bad reputation. When I bought my hull, they said I could get the factory optional Fiberglass gas tank. What, the Pate tank? Ya it is made to fit under the seat, but it is by far not a factory option. Factory option to me means made by Boston Whaler. Perhaps the Mills canvas can be considered a "factory" option too. Do I order it from B.W. or from Mills?
B.T.W., I run my hose over the transom, but out of curiosity, I poured a couple of buckets of water in my boat and placed the pump hose into the splash well. When I turned on the pump, it pumped the water fast into the well, but the water took much longer to exit the well. In rougher seas, the well contantly fills and empties when the boat drifts since the rear end sets up into the wind and waves. when this is the case, the previous experiment actually filled the well to the point that it overflowed splilling both over the transom, and back into the boat. That is with an 1100 GPH pump.
Bigshot posted 07-25-2002 01:15 PM ET (US)
FYI! I have an 1100 on my Montauk and last week I was beached and the tube was submerged on the aft side of the transom. The bilge pump automatically cycles and after it did, the water started coming in the boat. The tube made a syphon because it was submerged. Not a big deal because our boats are unsinkable, but this is why you are supposed to have a "loop" in your bilge tube to keep this from happening. Make sure your tube is not in the water. My friend sank a 15 POS this way.
dgp posted 07-25-2002 02:19 PM ET (US)
The bilge pump discharge routing that wpr describes _is_ a factory installation. My 2001 Montauk was ordered with the bilge pump option and this is how the factory routes it.
GAwhale posted 07-25-2002 02:38 PM ET (US)
DITTO
wpr posted 07-25-2002 05:58 PM ET (US)
My boat was a 1998. It was purchased from a Major dealer in NC. Don't know if this was done by BW or this dealer so I cannot accuse - although I sure would like to.
Looking now for another 17' from the 60's to mid 80's. A BOSTON whaler if you know what I mean.
Wild Turkey posted 07-25-2002 06:29 PM ET (US)
Here is a thread with discussion about bilge pump routing on Montauks (includes some pics of my setup).
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001924.html
I think it was determined to be the factory setup.
GAwhale posted 08-25-2002 06:04 PM ET (US)
I finally got my boat home today for a well needed cleaning. I removed the chrome baffle where the bilge pump exits.
Just like wpr, it is very shoddy workmanship. I am certain mine was done at the factory. First of all, the hole looks like crap on the exit side (chipped fiberglass probably where the holesaw came through). The pvc tube did not extend all the way through. It should have been cut at an angle to be flush.
I think it is some fundamental bonehead engineering. Why on earth would you cut through sound structure and risk getting water in the hull? Why didn't Whaler simply route the bilge pump hose over the splashwell?
My boat is less than two years old. I did not even consider going back to the selling dealer. I knew I would just get the run around again.
I scraped away the white silicone and cleaned out the area as good as possible. Then I masked off the area with tape. I found a Sharpie Magic Marker that fit nicely into the pvc.
We use a really good two part sealer on airplanes called '1435'. I mixed up a batch and painted around the Magic Marker. Then I slowly removed the Magic Marker.
NOT a perfect fix and I will have to check it periodically. But it beats tearing apart a brand new boat.
Swellmonster posted 08-25-2002 08:29 PM ET (US)
Looking forward to see what Chuck Bennett has to say about this???
Swellmonster posted 08-25-2002 08:34 PM ET (US)
Hey, this should be posted in post classic model section.
Dick posted 08-25-2002 09:01 PM ET (US)
My 99 Montauk has the factory installed bilge pump exiting into the motorwell. The fit and finish of the thru hull is perfect and well sealed. I have not experienced any problem with pumping the bilge water into the motor well and it draining as fast as it is pumped in.
I can't visualize the syphon efect taking place as the motor well would have to be completely full of water to reach the outlet hose. Also loops are not put in bilge pump hoses, a loop will restrict outflow and bilge pump outlets are allways installed above the waterline.
The information I have shows that the bilge pump was an option untill 2001 so prior to that it may have been dealer installed rather than factory installed.
GAwhale posted 08-26-2002 08:18 AM ET (US)
Greetings Dick!
I purchased my boat January of 2001. It is a 2001 model, but was clearly manufactured during the 2000 calendar year.
Perhaps Boston Whaler needs to get a better Quality Control Department (or Inspection Department) at the factory. Every one of these bilge pump exits should have been inspected before the chrome baffle went on. After the chrome baffle is installed you can't see anything.
Does anyone know if the Boston Whaler factory has a Quality Control Department?
Al Phillips100 posted 08-26-2002 09:02 PM ET (US)
I’m a little late to this discussion, but I’m surprised no one has asked: What’s the big deal? True, the installation WPR described is shoddy, and definitely not what we have come to expect from BW. However, what’s the harm as long as the hole is covered up with a shiny piece of chrome? BW foam doesn’t absorb water. (Except in the early model Whalers.) And the foam is chemically bonded to the fiberglass, so water couldn’t run down and collect in the hull. If it were me I’d still fill in the void with caulk, but I don’t see a concern for the integrity of the hull.
BTW, as long as we are explaining how WE routed the drain tubes on our own Montauks: As others, I just ran mine along the engine and steering cables and let the water drain into the splash well. The exit of the tube is above the height of the transom, so there is no danger of a siphon developing. The tubing is black, like the rest of the cables, so you don’t even notice it’s there.
Al Phillips

Hop to:

Contact Us | RETURN to ContinuousWave Top Page

Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.

Author	Topic: Warning to late model Montauk owners
wpr	posted 07-24-2002 06:33 PM ET (US) If you own a late model Montauk please take the time to read this. I just sold my Montauk this week. I came across a problem with the hull that I just could not live with. My Montauk had a tube that went through the forward wall of the transom slash well. The bilge pump was connected to this tube and bilge water was pumped through it. The exit of the tube was covered with a chrome baffle used to direct the water down into the splash well. Once bilge water was pumped into the well it drains out through the transom. The problem: By chance I removed the chrome baffle and noticed the tube did not extend all of the way through the wall into the splash well. You guessed it – The bilge water was being pumped into the FOAM! It had eroded the foam the area about the size a your fist. Once I dried the area out, it seemed the foam was very dry. It did not seem to have absorbed any water. This is good, however I just could not live with the boat wondering if the water had drained to the bottom of the hull. Chances are everything was fine but this was not the level of craftsmanship I had come to expect from Whaler. If your boat is equipped as mine was, I would suggest you pull that cover and check it. I’m sure it is fine but check it to be sure. If for some reason mine was a fluke I sure would like to know. I am now in the market for another Whaler – Maybe one a little older than the one I bought. Sending up a red flare.... -Bill
Hoop	posted 07-24-2002 06:45 PM ET (US) Bill, Sorry to hear about your problem. I'm inclined to think that you experienced something that the dealer did, not the factory. The bilge pump was a dealer-installed option. My dealer installed my bilge pump with a flexible hose that goes up and around the splash well and drains over the transom. Hoop 2000 Montauk "Ainoa"
Taylor	posted 07-24-2002 07:09 PM ET (US) That's a feature I was going to add to my Montauk, but I'd assumed that the way it was done at the factory was to run a plastic 90 degree tube/thruhull through the spashwall, calk or glue it in and then cut off the aft end flush with the surface. I have not done it yet because I was not sure the part I had would go all the way through.
GAwhale	posted 07-24-2002 07:16 PM ET (US) The bilge pump on my 2001 Montauk was factory installed just as wpr described. I will check it out the next time I go to the lake.
wpr	posted 07-24-2002 07:32 PM ET (US) My fix for the installation: I place a 90 degree fitting on the inboard side - as was the original installation. I kept the tube long on the splash well side but where the dealer or BW simply stopped there I cut a fitting at the same angle as the splashwell and then melted the tube and fitting together as a single unit using the proper glue. This created a stop that would not let the tube retract into the hull. This assembly was then bedded as a fitting on a 23 thousand dollar boat should be bedded. Finially I installed the chrome cover (bedding those screws as well). Personally I do not like the idea of running the bilge pump through the splashwell (for reasons already stated) However- The whole idea in restricting the water flow by forcing it into a smaller diameter tube and then by changing the flow of water 90 degrees seems to me to be very unsafe. If I need to clear the deck of water I want to do it fast and efficently - and NOW. I don't know boys.... good luck -Bill
Dick	posted 07-24-2002 08:46 PM ET (US) Simply leave the plug out and get rid of the water the way it used to be done.
John O	posted 07-24-2002 10:15 PM ET (US) on my '88 Newtauk I ran black flexable tub over inner splash well wall and exited through port side drain hole in transom. i leave starboard drain hole unpluged at all times. i used marine tex to secure tube into port brass fitting. What is the down-side of this system?
Kelly	posted 07-25-2002 09:46 AM ET (US) Since the cables for the motor come out of the tunnel anyway, I just got a flexible piece of tubing made for bilge pumps. I think it was less that $1 per foot. I attached it to the bilge pump and used plastic ties to run it with the motor cables. It discharges over the transom, which is where I want bilge water to go anyway. Kelly
Shoreman	posted 07-25-2002 09:48 AM ET (US) Bill, Thanks for your post. I have the same bilge pump set-up on my '89 Montauk. I removed the chrome baffle and found that my installation is fine. The tube running through the forward wall of the splashwell is the proper length and well sealed. Thanks again. Steve
Bigshot	posted 07-25-2002 11:09 AM ET (US) I have never seen that setup, nor do I think it is factory. Anyone?
Salmon Tub	posted 07-25-2002 11:55 AM ET (US) It is not factory, it is a dealer (Wile-E-Coyote, super genius Idea). There is an old saying that should be adheared to, leave well enough alone. Why anyone would want to poke a hole in that wall to route the bilge pump hose is beyond me. Lets face it, it may look a little neater, but it still is visible so why do it? Wpr, when you looked at the boat in the showroom, did it already have this set-up or did the dealer say that he could rig the pump so that it would be neat and clean? What year is your boat? I assume it is rather new, and I would have gone back to him to have him fix his mistake. Things like this help give the boat a bad reputation. When I bought my hull, they said I could get the factory optional Fiberglass gas tank. What, the Pate tank? Ya it is made to fit under the seat, but it is by far not a factory option. Factory option to me means made by Boston Whaler. Perhaps the Mills canvas can be considered a "factory" option too. Do I order it from B.W. or from Mills? B.T.W., I run my hose over the transom, but out of curiosity, I poured a couple of buckets of water in my boat and placed the pump hose into the splash well. When I turned on the pump, it pumped the water fast into the well, but the water took much longer to exit the well. In rougher seas, the well contantly fills and empties when the boat drifts since the rear end sets up into the wind and waves. when this is the case, the previous experiment actually filled the well to the point that it overflowed splilling both over the transom, and back into the boat. That is with an 1100 GPH pump.
Bigshot	posted 07-25-2002 01:15 PM ET (US) FYI! I have an 1100 on my Montauk and last week I was beached and the tube was submerged on the aft side of the transom. The bilge pump automatically cycles and after it did, the water started coming in the boat. The tube made a syphon because it was submerged. Not a big deal because our boats are unsinkable, but this is why you are supposed to have a "loop" in your bilge tube to keep this from happening. Make sure your tube is not in the water. My friend sank a 15 POS this way.
dgp	posted 07-25-2002 02:19 PM ET (US) The bilge pump discharge routing that wpr describes _is_ a factory installation. My 2001 Montauk was ordered with the bilge pump option and this is how the factory routes it.
GAwhale	posted 07-25-2002 02:38 PM ET (US) DITTO
wpr	posted 07-25-2002 05:58 PM ET (US) My boat was a 1998. It was purchased from a Major dealer in NC. Don't know if this was done by BW or this dealer so I cannot accuse - although I sure would like to. Looking now for another 17' from the 60's to mid 80's. A BOSTON whaler if you know what I mean.
Wild Turkey	posted 07-25-2002 06:29 PM ET (US) Here is a thread with discussion about bilge pump routing on Montauks (includes some pics of my setup). http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001924.html I think it was determined to be the factory setup.
GAwhale	posted 08-25-2002 06:04 PM ET (US) I finally got my boat home today for a well needed cleaning. I removed the chrome baffle where the bilge pump exits. Just like wpr, it is very shoddy workmanship. I am certain mine was done at the factory. First of all, the hole looks like crap on the exit side (chipped fiberglass probably where the holesaw came through). The pvc tube did not extend all the way through. It should have been cut at an angle to be flush. I think it is some fundamental bonehead engineering. Why on earth would you cut through sound structure and risk getting water in the hull? Why didn't Whaler simply route the bilge pump hose over the splashwell? My boat is less than two years old. I did not even consider going back to the selling dealer. I knew I would just get the run around again. I scraped away the white silicone and cleaned out the area as good as possible. Then I masked off the area with tape. I found a Sharpie Magic Marker that fit nicely into the pvc. We use a really good two part sealer on airplanes called '1435'. I mixed up a batch and painted around the Magic Marker. Then I slowly removed the Magic Marker. NOT a perfect fix and I will have to check it periodically. But it beats tearing apart a brand new boat.
Swellmonster	posted 08-25-2002 08:29 PM ET (US) Looking forward to see what Chuck Bennett has to say about this???
Swellmonster	posted 08-25-2002 08:34 PM ET (US) Hey, this should be posted in post classic model section.
Dick	posted 08-25-2002 09:01 PM ET (US) My 99 Montauk has the factory installed bilge pump exiting into the motorwell. The fit and finish of the thru hull is perfect and well sealed. I have not experienced any problem with pumping the bilge water into the motor well and it draining as fast as it is pumped in. I can't visualize the syphon efect taking place as the motor well would have to be completely full of water to reach the outlet hose. Also loops are not put in bilge pump hoses, a loop will restrict outflow and bilge pump outlets are allways installed above the waterline. The information I have shows that the bilge pump was an option untill 2001 so prior to that it may have been dealer installed rather than factory installed.
GAwhale	posted 08-26-2002 08:18 AM ET (US) Greetings Dick! I purchased my boat January of 2001. It is a 2001 model, but was clearly manufactured during the 2000 calendar year. Perhaps Boston Whaler needs to get a better Quality Control Department (or Inspection Department) at the factory. Every one of these bilge pump exits should have been inspected before the chrome baffle went on. After the chrome baffle is installed you can't see anything. Does anyone know if the Boston Whaler factory has a Quality Control Department?
Al Phillips100	posted 08-26-2002 09:02 PM ET (US) I’m a little late to this discussion, but I’m surprised no one has asked: What’s the big deal? True, the installation WPR described is shoddy, and definitely not what we have come to expect from BW. However, what’s the harm as long as the hole is covered up with a shiny piece of chrome? BW foam doesn’t absorb water. (Except in the early model Whalers.) And the foam is chemically bonded to the fiberglass, so water couldn’t run down and collect in the hull. If it were me I’d still fill in the void with caulk, but I don’t see a concern for the integrity of the hull. BTW, as long as we are explaining how WE routed the drain tubes on our own Montauks: As others, I just ran mine along the engine and steering cables and let the water drain into the splash well. The exit of the tube is above the height of the transom, so there is no danger of a siphon developing. The tubing is black, like the rest of the cables, so you don’t even notice it’s there. Al Phillips