posted 10-07-2002 05:26 PM ET (US)        

The ship to shore NOAA weather report stated 2-3ft wave height but no small craft warnings for Long Island Sound. I specifically listened to the report because of the hurricane in the area. As we were a quarter of the way across the wave height began to build to 6-7ft and by the time we were three quarters of the way (just out from the Northport Stacks) it was 12-14 feet in height. This is more than two-thirds the length of the boat. The main difference for those not familiar with Long Island Sound is that the waves repeat in short intervals not like the ocean where you get the long rollers. As you come off one wave you have all you can do not to nose dive into the oncoming wave. Only once did I take water over the bow. By cutting the wave on a slight angle it helped prevent it but you had to watch that the angle was no too sharp as it could probably flip the boat over. The movie the perfect storm kept coming to mind. . Monica, my girlfriend just said OH MY GOD, ……….OH MY GOD. I think she just couldn’t get past saying that. Once in a while there was RAY……OH MY GOD.

One thing I didn’t do, but did on the return trip was to put a life jacket on as had either of us been knocked overboard and unconscious it would have saved our lives. The return trip was a little bit better ……..Only 10 footers.

Oh I forgot to mention this was Monica’s birthday and she said it was one she will never forget.

The boats performance was outstanding. Not only was I never worried about it handling these seas …….it did it perfectly. Whaler does not know what a Great Boat they built. Needless to say, we were the only boat out on the sound.

posted 10-07-2002 07:05 PM ET (US)         

Would be mah reaction, no offense intended.

posted 10-07-2002 09:13 PM ET (US)            

Good showing.... a little nerve racking but good showing.

I have nothing to compare to that but was caught on the way back from an outing with several kids including my own and another adult from a yacht club outing across the barnegat bay. We went in the morning under nice conditions but on the way back, we were looking at 3-4 foot chop with a 20 knot wind running down the bay across the beam. I learned alot that day, a little nervous with all the kids (some not mine ) but the Montauk handled great. We did get a little wet but so did most of the boats...

posted 10-08-2002 09:23 AM ET (US)            

Wave height:
I myself am 6 ft tall and I figure that there is approximately one foot of boat below me at the helm. The waves while in the trough were at least twice my height. To me that translates to 14 ft. This is not deception but actual visual translation. I just wish I could have taken a photo. It’s not important to me whether the waves were 14 ft or 20 ft. I was just trying to give an accurate account of the day. As I stated this was NOT the wave height of the entire trip but a 20-minute area off the coast of the stacks in Northport, NY.

GPS Speed:
As I rode down the wave the GPS range was between 10-15 MPH. Going up the next wave was down to 3-4MPH. There was constant throttle action up and down as needed to navigate the waves.

One of the important reasons to relate the events of the day was to warn boaters not to necessarily believe the NOAA weather report. Naturally if NOAA had given small craft warnings and accurate wave height we would have cancelled the trip.

Also it makes the point to pull out the life jackets and wear them when ever the weather is so bruital.
Ray

posted 10-08-2002 09:51 AM ET (US)            

Last winter, I went out with a friend's 18 Outrage right by the Northport Stacks and If I recall correctly, the shoreline was very reflective. There is a possibility of amplication of wave peaks (momentarily) which do not have the directional momentum to break as a classic roller would. This reflective shoreline will bounce back the waves from one direction back at the existing line of swells-causing the phenomenon Tabasco recounted. For others, you can recreate this in your bathtub by generating waves with your hand up and down in thw water. Where the waves meet there will be amplication. This amplification also explains the "rouge wave" except amplication occurs with two lines of rollers meeting at an angle.

Sal, your mention of the 12-14 foot sea with a short wavelength breaking is about right following the rule for any size wave: A wave will crest when the height divided by the wavelength (H/L) is 1/7 or about 120 degrees. On a side note Sal, I've seen Discovery Channel shows on the Bering Sea crabbing industry and I must say that's truly hard core where your "office" is (much respect for the poker game of life and death to earn a living).

posted 10-08-2002 10:20 AM ET (US)            

4 mph crawling up the wave and 12 mph sliding back down the other side.

Let's see, this would take three times as long to get to the top as it would to slide down the other side.

3 hours at 4 mph = 12 miles
1 hour at 12 mph = 12 miles
24 miles total divided by 4 hours total = 6.00 mph average

This seems to jive with what everyone else is sayin'

What a trip! Makes me very proud of our new Whalers. The BW tradition is still very much alive in these new boats.

SSFW

posted 10-08-2002 10:40 AM ET (US)         

The important thing to remember on the Sound is to avoid situations where the wind is against the tidal current, which runs E-W in the Sound. At noon, the tide was high in Port Jeff, so it was already ebbing to the east in the Sound. The wind was 15-20 kts. and out of the east, so conditions were very nasty for such a nice (looking) day.

I'm glad your Whaler got you there in one piece. Don't let the ignorant commentators get you down!

posted 10-08-2002 10:43 AM ET (US)            

www.weather.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/fmtbltn.pl?file=forecasts/marine/coastal/an/anz451.txt

posted 10-08-2002 10:46 AM ET (US)            

I have never listened to a weather report in my life. I go by gut instinct and my gut instinct would have been to stay the night and come home when safe. My gut instinct would have been to catch a ride back to NY with my friend and get my trailer, etc. My gut instinct would have been never unload it in the 1st place. I learned years ago that when you use bad judgement you lose. That last lap around the track, the last run down the ski mountain, etc. My father who was in the coast guard always said,"there is 1 woman you NEVER f**K with and that is mother nature!" I never do. If I have to rely on a NOAA report then I am running way far offshore which I would not be doing with my wife or in a 17'.

posted 10-08-2002 09:21 PM ET (US)         

Boat Erie, the most dangerous of the great lakes. We have two sayings that govern our sailing.

One is "If you don't like the weather in Ohio, stick around a minute. It'll change"

Two is "I whish I was a weather forecaster, I'd love a job where I'm was right less than 50% of the time, and didn't get fired"

posted 10-09-2002 12:43 AM ET (US)            

I was scheduled to go out weak and striper fishing on Sunday at Raritan Bay. I had listened to NOAA prior to leaving the house and the only small boat advisory that I heard was out of Manasquan to the South. I could not get to the marina until 3:00 P.M., and when I got there, the boat was still in the rack. I could have used the relaxation but dark clouds were coming in quickly from the east, and the wind had that "real nasty feeling" to it, so I told the operator to leave the boat in the rack. In my experience, any weather coming in from the east this time of the year can quickly become problematic and I really wanted no part of it. I am glad that I did. Within an hour the high cold winds were cutting froth all across the bay. The few boats that were still coming in were in the 35 - 40 foot size and their crews were drenched. No fun.

Glad to hear that you and Monica made it home safe.

posted 10-09-2002 03:16 PM ET (US)            

Don't pick on old Barney! It is a fine inlet. :) Whaler friendly as it were. Of course it seems much more tame at the helm of my Montauk than when I was running the Sport 15.

As AnthonyT has pointed out, the 3-4' chop in the Barnegat Bay, especially in the ICW is worse than being out in the ocean.

posted 10-10-2002 11:58 AM ET (US)            

Conditions on the water are ever changing. When I used to deliver boats back and forth from Jersey to Florida on ICW it always amazed me that on some trips I would be running at low tide all day hunting for the dredged cuts. The next trip, it would high water the whole time. Like night and day.

The inlet I use, Manasquan, on the Jersey Coast is shallow. When the wind goes against the tide, the mouth gets nasty. Other times you could slide in and out on a mattress.

The one constant, though, is that the ocean, river, bay, lake, etc. is indifferent. Make a mistake and you are going to pay. Maybe not this time, but the ocean is a very patient teacher and will wait for us to mess up.

When you look at statistics of boating accidents, a lot of those involved have a good amount of experience. Stands to reason because the more time you are out there, the more chances you are offered to take.

posted 10-11-2002 10:30 AM ET (US)            

First let me say that the day started out with reasonable wave heights and increased in the center of Long Island sound. This remained constant until I reached the Northport stacks area. If things had remained at the wave height of the center of the sound, my article would never have been written. It would have been another rough fall day on Long Island Sound.

I guess the reason I related the events of the day is to inform readers how a rough day can turn extremely bad. As I was “in it” there was no way to turn around. I had seen someone try to turn around off Point Judith, Rhode Island on one of our trips back from Nantucket. It also was very rough conditions and his boat pitch-polled. My forty years of boating experience was in full use that day and never felt in danger as long as I could keep my senses and concentrate on what I was doing. Monica was a dream, never panicked and kept her cool. She is a dream sailor and great companion.

On our return trip, a few hours later I went directly across towards Stamford and avoided the horror of the Northport stack area.

Yes I probably should have just stayed on the Connecticut side of the sound and done Northport another weekend. Maybe it wasn’t the best decision I ever made but when you are “in it” you have to deal with your decisions and do the best you can to have a safe outcome.

Once again the article was written to share my experience with others on the forum. I don’t mind criticism, as I do have a tough skin but I must say calling me the “Village Idiot” was a bit extreme.

Well I would like to put this to rest now and continue to learn more about Whalers from this wonderful forum.

Thank you all for hearing me out.

posted 10-15-2002 01:29 PM ET (US)            

As best I recall, they were having some sort of relatively minor electrical system problem, circled around a tug, and got sliced by the tow cable as it came up through the surface. Like the Whaler pictures with the chainsaw, but without the foam. The remaining parts were struck by the barge. I don't remember if there were any survivors, but I do recall there were fatalities.