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Author Topic:   Some questions about quality

marshhawk posted 12-18-2002 06:46 AM ET (US)
I have been lurking on continuouswave for some time now but this is my first posting. I'm in my mid-50's, nearing retirement, and my wife and I are thinking of buying a small power boat to augment our coastal Maryland location and our lifelong avocation as birders. We are both new to boating and neither of us has the patience or skills necessary to deal with selecting and maintaining a used boat.
We've been seriously considering the 2003 Sport 13 and Sport 15 models. We've been to see them at a dealership, have gobbled up all the documentation on the boats that we can find, but we've also looked at a lot of other boats in this size class and general configuration.
Reading the current thread on feelings about Brunswick Corporation has raised some concerns in my mind and also some questions. Has the quality of new Boston Whalers (especially the smaller boats in their line) suffered over the past five years or so? Am I making a mistake by looking seriously at the new 13's and 15's? Is the Mercury line of engines really such a bad choice? From what I've read I would prefer a Honda or Yamaha, but I haven't really heard any bad things about the 4-cycle Mercs.
The dealer we visited (North Bay Marina in Selbyville, DE) gave us the impression that Boston Whaler allowed no brand choices for the engine nor could we order the boat without an engine. Is this true as far as you know? The dealer was also unwilling to discuss any negotiation on pricing. Are new Boston Whalers selling so well that it is a total seller's market?
In short, I'm leaning toward Boston Whaler but I want to know if I'm making a serious mistake here. In advance, thanks for all your thoughts, comments, and answers.

weekendwarrior posted 12-18-2002 07:18 AM ET (US)
The only question that I can help with is the question of buying just the hull. I tried to do just that several months ago and the dealer told me the same thing; starting this year you can no longer purchase a blank hull, it must come fully rigged. If someone else knows a way around this then I would love to hear it, but this is what the dealer told me too.
skred posted 12-18-2002 07:51 AM ET (US)
Last August, I talked directly to Boston Whaler, and they indicated I could purchase a CPD hull directly from them.
JBCornwell posted 12-18-2002 08:56 AM ET (US)
Hi, Marshhawk.
There are Classic 13s, 15s and 17s available that are as good as, some even better than they were when new, which is better than new generation 130s and 150s. Mahogany and teak do require care, but otherwise they require no more care than a new boat.
They are also less expensive. You can even repower them, if needed, with the engine of your choice and still save bux.
I would look for a Classic Whaler, but would definitely want a 4 stroke engine, preferrable EFI.
The Mercury EFI 4 strokes are good engines. My objection to Mercs is to the marketing strategy of Brunswick, not to the engines.
Good luck
Red sky at night.. .
JB
Tin Man posted 12-18-2002 09:05 AM ET (US)
I have read some of the post regarding engine choices, etc and here are my thoughts. Mercury makes a decent motor but if I was dead set on having one of the other brands on a particular boat, I would try and find someone that wanted the bundled motor and seperate it from the boat and add the motor I wanted. In the case of Mercury vs Yamaha it is an easy swap.
Another scenario would be to get a lesser boat in need of a motor and change them out. Might be a little extra effort but do able and for the right combo you might be able to come out ahead.
Other options are buying the boat with the cheapest Merc you can get and repower it with the Yamaha of choice. Sell the Merc for whatever you can get.
As far as I know the boat and motor are still treated as two seperate items as far as warranty, taxes and titles.
This is America, you can get just about any thing you want if you are willing to pay the price. That being said, I personally like Mercury motors and would not hesitate to buy one.
TheSkipper posted 12-18-2002 09:05 AM ET (US)
I purchased a 2002 180 Dauntless with a Mercury Optimax 135 in April of this year. To date, the quality of both the boat and motor has been outstanding. Most of the problems I have seen reported concerning Mercury motors related to the early model years of the Optimax series. From what I have seen, most of the problems appear to have been resolved. As far as the boat goes, many of the posters here like the older hulls better. However, before buying my boat, I compared it too numerous other comparably-sized new boats, and Whaler wins the quality contest hands down.
super7 posted 12-18-2002 10:27 AM ET (US)
Ummm... about that merc vs yammie thing, in four strokes aren't they supposed to be the same thing exept the lower unit? With that said, you can't really go wrong with any of them look at the weight and storage length and see what matters to you. When I was young foolish we tried to break a ss15(70 Johnson stinger) and a 17(140 Johnson) and couldn't do it (not my boats, friends were trying for a warranty thing)didn't break them but had a lot of fun trying.
When looking for your boat try not to go for the minimium HP, go as close to the max as possible. You don't have to use the extra HP and the engine doesn't work as hard at cruese with what ever load you have in it. If/when you have four people in it and your things you can still move along comfortably.
As far as dealers go any merc,yammie,honda dealer will do work/warranty any of the engines they deal with(like cars, any chevy dealer will service a chevy) doesn't matter what hull the engine is on, the engine is different from the hull in the warranty issue.
If you can go for a ride in the boats your thinking about its not a great time of year for that but try. If the dealer won't(try a different dealer) put out a call to the guys on this site, probably won't have to twist to many arms for someone to show you their whaler. Although summer would help that part.
Happy Holidays
Tony

andygere posted 12-18-2002 12:16 PM ET (US)
I'm a die-hard classic owner, but that said, I think the quality of the new boats is still tops in the industry. My dad owns a '99 Dauntless 16, and it is every bit a rugged and well-made as my Montauk and Outrage. Fit and finish is far better than most new boats out there, and the ride is as solid as my classics. The 2-stroke Merc 90 has performed well.
I would shop around or at least call some other dealers. Winter is a slow time in the boating business, and if you are able to find a boat on the lot, the dealer should be willing to negotiate on price. He is paying interest on that boat every day it sits, and nobody is shopping in December. It would be worth driving a few hours if it saves you a few thousand. Even better, try to get a lower quote elsewhere and get your local dealer to match it. Unless you are ordering a new boat, you shouldn't have to pay MSRP.
jameso posted 12-18-2002 12:35 PM ET (US)
You asked for opinions so here goes...NEVER buy a new boat, even a Whaler. There are plenty of really good mid 80' to 90's out there for a fraction of what you will pay for a new one. Quality of a vintage Whaler is better than most new boats on market (Not refering to new Whalers)and the resale is better.
A well maintained rig, 13 or 15, can be had for 4 to 5K. This will put you on the water, and give you a chance to develop the malady know as "Two footitis". If you decide boating is not for you sell the rig for what you paid and walk. Or if the 'itis' develops into a chronic case you have swapping material.
Welcome to WhalerWorld.
Jim Armstrong
1stwhaler posted 12-18-2002 02:55 PM ET (US)
Marsh,I just bought a 2003 17 montauk,and I love it,the quality fit and finish is outstanding,mercury is a great motor (except for a my friends 225hp optimax,junk)in the lower H.P range.You said you are in your 50's its time to relax no headaches,go for it,buy new,get the extended warranty on motor and enjoy,the boat will hold its value,evan a new one because its a whaler.goodluck
roofer posted 12-18-2002 03:26 PM ET (US)
I bought a new 2000 18ft outrage last season. My only previous experience is with my families ski boats. The quality on my whaler is great, it is the only boat I would want. plus if there are problems you have the warranty.
I would shop the price, this is a buyers market (bad economy/winter), I am sure if you ask for contact information for sales reps around the country plenty of people from this site would put you in contact with some dealers that can show you a fair price. These dealers can most likely arrange for it to be shipped to you as well.
I know if you buy a whaler old or new that you will not regret you choice.
Good Luck.
ducktwin posted 12-18-2002 04:03 PM ET (US)
Marshhawk,
The Mercury motors (four stroke) have Yamaha powerheads.
lhg posted 12-18-2002 08:27 PM ET (US)
Marsh - Everybody has a lot of opinions on which engine they like, including me, but I can honestly say that for the range of HP you would be using, the Mercury engines are fine, probably as good or better than anything else out there. This is taking emotion & brand loyalty out of the equation. In four strokes, the above post is only half correct.
The 75-115Hp Mercs are as stated, basically Yamaha engines. But in the 30,40 & 60 HP versions are the reverse, the Yamaha engines are Mercury powerheads, but without the superior (over carbs) Merc EFI systems! So, for instance, if you bought a new Whaler 150 with Mercury 60 EFI 4-stroke, trading it for a Yamaha or Honda would be ridiculous. The Yamaha engine is actually a Merc anyway, and neither Yamaha or Honda yet have EFI in that power range. Disclaimer - I have owned nothing but Mercurys since 1968, and have never been towed in!
But regarding your more serious question on which Whaler, being in your age group, I would not get too small of a Whaler. I would rule out the 130. At your age, a year or two later, you'll want a larger boat and lose in the trade. Instead, spend up for the 150 or even better, the 170 Montauk. I'm sure both will serve you well, the REAL issue being the mandatory sit-down seating and operation of the 150, vs the increased stand-up, walk around flexibility of the Montauk. A third, very reasonably priced alternative is a "sit-down" Classic 17 hulled Alert, from the Commercial division. These are getting quite popular, and the boat is in between the 150 & 170 in size & trailerability. Downside is that the interior seating and trim is white starboard, with a fiberglass console. Upside, is you can have installed any engine that you want, up to 100HP.
Finally, all the above is predicated on the assumption that you want to buy new and not hassle with a restoration. But I would also seriously look for a top condition used 17 Montauk, 1983-2000, where restoration is not needed. From 1994, you dont' even have teak to worry about maintaining. They ARE out there, and are an extremely good value. The boat would be perfect for your needs, and with good comfort too. Great weather protection can also be purchased for this model. There is a reason the 17' Montauk was the most popular Boston Whaler ever built.
Incidentally, it's nice to have you participating in this website. I hope you find a nice Whaler for your purposes.
jimh posted 12-18-2002 08:30 PM ET (US)
If you must have a new boat, I would not worry about the quality of a Boston Whaler boat. The high standards appear to be maintained.
In terms of aesthics, the boats you mention (130-Sport and 150-Sport) are more similar to the classic Boston Whaler boat designs of the past than most of the other new designs.
I am about your age (52). I find that I am using my 15-foot Whaler less each year because of the lack of comfortable seating for longer trips. You might want to consider a 170-Montauk if you are going to be sitting on the boat for several hours at a time.
Macman posted 12-18-2002 09:14 PM ET (US)
Buy a Montauk and you and don't look back! If you start with a smaller Whaler, that is where you will end up. A Montauk will provide you all of the features of a smaller Whaler with a more flexibility and comfort. I use mine for everything under the sun...now if it only had a cabin with a head....hmmm.
Good Luck!
lhg posted 12-18-2002 09:24 PM ET (US)
Macman - order a Mills forward shelter, velcro on a lightweight drop curtain on the back of it fro privacy, and bring along a porta-potti. Your prayer will be answered!
Dick posted 12-18-2002 09:27 PM ET (US)
As a Montauk owner I go along with all that has been said in promoting it.
The getting older comment is worth thinking about. With the Montauk you have a comfortatble RPS where you can either sit or stand to operate the boat. At 65 there is no way I could sit on a bench seat in a 13 or 15. Nothing but pluses for the Montauk.
Dick
James posted 12-19-2002 12:14 AM ET (US)
marshhawk:
I am 52 years old and after following this website for a while, I shared similar concerns regarding a new BW boat purchase. I purchased a 170 Montauk with a 4-stroke 90 HP this past March. I suggest that you consider it in you list of potential choices.
I obviously think that Whaler is the way to go. I would just go a little bigger than you are considering. The 170 purchase pricing does not appear to differ much from the Sport 15. I use the boat in Raritan Bay, New Jersey and would not want less boat than what I have. My back is not the greatest in the world. There is significant comfort in being able to get up and walk safely all around the boat.
There is criticism of Brunswick on this website. I just do not see any other similar sized new boats built that compare with BW in long term construction, quality, pricing and resale value. I disagree with those who put the Edgewater and Scout in BW's class.
Left to my own devices, I would have initially purchased a Yamaha. However, all the BW boats now come as a packaged deal with the Mercury engines. The factory pairing does provide a lower purchase price, and as previously stated, the four stroke 90 is the same engine for Mercury and Yamaha. Speaking from personal experience, the 170 has ample power with the 90 HP and I have not had any engine starting or running problems, at all. The boat is very economical to run. The four stroke lack of smoke and idle noise is highly desirable to me.
My dealer is Pelican Harbor Marina. You may want to contact them to talk.
James.
marshhawk posted 12-19-2002 06:04 AM ET (US)
To all of you who took the time to reply (both on the forum and in private), thank you. You've given me a lot to think about but at least I am no longer concerned with the immediate quality of the new Whalers. My biggest issue now is convincing the spouse that the Montauk is the way to go...grin. However, the issue of comfort & safety should be big selling points for her.
Again, thanks to all of you! When we make our decision I'll be sure to let everyone know. Until then, I'll keep on browsing these wonderful forums.
Best of the holidays to all of you.
Norm Saunders
marshhawk
DaveH posted 12-19-2002 10:19 AM ET (US)
Norm (Marshhawk):
I agree with most everything that was stated in the positive review of the new Whalers. I have examined them extensively and found little that would cause me not to purchase them.
In comparison of the 150 Sport and the 170 Montauk, I believe that the value is much higher in the Montauk in function, comfort utility, and resale.
You and your lovely bride need to insist on a test ride over various water conditions to experience both before you buy. Most dealers would be happy to accomodate you after a refundable deposit is placed.
If you need to place an order this winter, see if they would arrange a sea trial with a sister dealership in Florida or Georgia. The boating industry is not doing well and I'm sure they would do anything to ensure you stay with them.
Bigshot posted 12-19-2002 11:17 AM ET (US)
Norm;
Being you are looking at DE dealers....do you still have to pay sales tax if you bring it to MD? If so then no reason why not to shop. try NJ, only a couple hours away, etc. Being the 15's are about $15+k I would definately consider the 170. The new 150 is much more comfortable than the older 15's and legroom is much better and they have seatbacks and cushions, etc. I personally would buy a 17' alert with the bench seats and side console for about $7+k and you supply the engine and trailer. You could rig it out for about the same as a 150. and a 604 stroke would be plenty being it weighs LESS than the new 150. However the new 150 may very well ride softer than the older 17' hull now called the alert or standard. Go to their website and check out the commercial division....another great choice.
lhg posted 12-19-2002 06:38 PM ET (US)
Generally with a registered vehicle, whether it be automotive, trailer, or a boat, one can't duck the sales tax. You either pay it where you buy, or where you register, or some in each state, up to your home turf total rate, depending on tax rates where you buy.
This is a downside to buying a packaged boat, since the tax goes on the engine also.
When you buy boat and trailer bare, you can get any engine shipped in from out of state without tax. This makes the Alert seem like an even better deal, if you're willing to work with the extra hassle and rigging. A center console 17 Guardian, with console only, should also not be ruled out, combined with a Reversible Pilot Seat.
Dick E posted 12-19-2002 09:22 PM ET (US)
Here is your boat.
This is a great buy at buy it now!
Go to this link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875251678
DaveH posted 12-20-2002 09:04 AM ET (US)
I agree with Dick E. This appears to be a nice boat if an engine survey finds it's OK. I especially like the fact the bow rail has not been installed.
Bigshot posted 12-20-2002 09:51 AM ET (US)
How could anyone buy new when you can get that boat for $12,900? Great thing is 5 years from now it will still be worth $10k where that $20k new montauk will probably lose about $8k in value over the same time frame.
homey posted 12-20-2002 11:34 AM ET (US)
Marshhawk,
I also was lurking around on this site before I found my Whaler. There is alot of good advice here. You can't go wrong with a Whaler in my opinion.
In reading your post its obvious you want a easy boat to handle with little maintenance... The 17' Montauk would be perfect for your needs and this is why, manuverability on or off trailer, comfortable seating, and great with bimini top. Not too small, as the 13 will get cramped after a season...
New or Used? A used 17' Montauk in excellent condition will run you approx. $9,000 to $13,000 (boat,motor,trailer)Look hard and ask for maintenance records. If you go new your approx. $20,000 and boat dealers are nothing like car dealers. (Either boat will get you to the same location) New or Used both require regular maintenance. I would also suggest you take a seatrial/test ride before buying. If you haven't done so, take a basic boating course...Good Luck!

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Author	Topic: Some questions about quality
marshhawk	posted 12-18-2002 06:46 AM ET (US) I have been lurking on continuouswave for some time now but this is my first posting. I'm in my mid-50's, nearing retirement, and my wife and I are thinking of buying a small power boat to augment our coastal Maryland location and our lifelong avocation as birders. We are both new to boating and neither of us has the patience or skills necessary to deal with selecting and maintaining a used boat. We've been seriously considering the 2003 Sport 13 and Sport 15 models. We've been to see them at a dealership, have gobbled up all the documentation on the boats that we can find, but we've also looked at a lot of other boats in this size class and general configuration. Reading the current thread on feelings about Brunswick Corporation has raised some concerns in my mind and also some questions. Has the quality of new Boston Whalers (especially the smaller boats in their line) suffered over the past five years or so? Am I making a mistake by looking seriously at the new 13's and 15's? Is the Mercury line of engines really such a bad choice? From what I've read I would prefer a Honda or Yamaha, but I haven't really heard any bad things about the 4-cycle Mercs. The dealer we visited (North Bay Marina in Selbyville, DE) gave us the impression that Boston Whaler allowed no brand choices for the engine nor could we order the boat without an engine. Is this true as far as you know? The dealer was also unwilling to discuss any negotiation on pricing. Are new Boston Whalers selling so well that it is a total seller's market? In short, I'm leaning toward Boston Whaler but I want to know if I'm making a serious mistake here. In advance, thanks for all your thoughts, comments, and answers.
weekendwarrior	posted 12-18-2002 07:18 AM ET (US) The only question that I can help with is the question of buying just the hull. I tried to do just that several months ago and the dealer told me the same thing; starting this year you can no longer purchase a blank hull, it must come fully rigged. If someone else knows a way around this then I would love to hear it, but this is what the dealer told me too.
skred	posted 12-18-2002 07:51 AM ET (US) Last August, I talked directly to Boston Whaler, and they indicated I could purchase a CPD hull directly from them.
JBCornwell	posted 12-18-2002 08:56 AM ET (US) Hi, Marshhawk. There are Classic 13s, 15s and 17s available that are as good as, some even better than they were when new, which is better than new generation 130s and 150s. Mahogany and teak do require care, but otherwise they require no more care than a new boat. They are also less expensive. You can even repower them, if needed, with the engine of your choice and still save bux. I would look for a Classic Whaler, but would definitely want a 4 stroke engine, preferrable EFI. The Mercury EFI 4 strokes are good engines. My objection to Mercs is to the marketing strategy of Brunswick, not to the engines. Good luck Red sky at night.. . JB
Tin Man	posted 12-18-2002 09:05 AM ET (US) I have read some of the post regarding engine choices, etc and here are my thoughts. Mercury makes a decent motor but if I was dead set on having one of the other brands on a particular boat, I would try and find someone that wanted the bundled motor and seperate it from the boat and add the motor I wanted. In the case of Mercury vs Yamaha it is an easy swap. Another scenario would be to get a lesser boat in need of a motor and change them out. Might be a little extra effort but do able and for the right combo you might be able to come out ahead. Other options are buying the boat with the cheapest Merc you can get and repower it with the Yamaha of choice. Sell the Merc for whatever you can get. As far as I know the boat and motor are still treated as two seperate items as far as warranty, taxes and titles. This is America, you can get just about any thing you want if you are willing to pay the price. That being said, I personally like Mercury motors and would not hesitate to buy one.
TheSkipper	posted 12-18-2002 09:05 AM ET (US) I purchased a 2002 180 Dauntless with a Mercury Optimax 135 in April of this year. To date, the quality of both the boat and motor has been outstanding. Most of the problems I have seen reported concerning Mercury motors related to the early model years of the Optimax series. From what I have seen, most of the problems appear to have been resolved. As far as the boat goes, many of the posters here like the older hulls better. However, before buying my boat, I compared it too numerous other comparably-sized new boats, and Whaler wins the quality contest hands down.
super7	posted 12-18-2002 10:27 AM ET (US) Ummm... about that merc vs yammie thing, in four strokes aren't they supposed to be the same thing exept the lower unit? With that said, you can't really go wrong with any of them look at the weight and storage length and see what matters to you. When I was young foolish we tried to break a ss15(70 Johnson stinger) and a 17(140 Johnson) and couldn't do it (not my boats, friends were trying for a warranty thing)didn't break them but had a lot of fun trying. When looking for your boat try not to go for the minimium HP, go as close to the max as possible. You don't have to use the extra HP and the engine doesn't work as hard at cruese with what ever load you have in it. If/when you have four people in it and your things you can still move along comfortably. As far as dealers go any merc,yammie,honda dealer will do work/warranty any of the engines they deal with(like cars, any chevy dealer will service a chevy) doesn't matter what hull the engine is on, the engine is different from the hull in the warranty issue. If you can go for a ride in the boats your thinking about its not a great time of year for that but try. If the dealer won't(try a different dealer) put out a call to the guys on this site, probably won't have to twist to many arms for someone to show you their whaler. Although summer would help that part. Happy Holidays Tony
andygere	posted 12-18-2002 12:16 PM ET (US) I'm a die-hard classic owner, but that said, I think the quality of the new boats is still tops in the industry. My dad owns a '99 Dauntless 16, and it is every bit a rugged and well-made as my Montauk and Outrage. Fit and finish is far better than most new boats out there, and the ride is as solid as my classics. The 2-stroke Merc 90 has performed well. I would shop around or at least call some other dealers. Winter is a slow time in the boating business, and if you are able to find a boat on the lot, the dealer should be willing to negotiate on price. He is paying interest on that boat every day it sits, and nobody is shopping in December. It would be worth driving a few hours if it saves you a few thousand. Even better, try to get a lower quote elsewhere and get your local dealer to match it. Unless you are ordering a new boat, you shouldn't have to pay MSRP.
jameso	posted 12-18-2002 12:35 PM ET (US) You asked for opinions so here goes...NEVER buy a new boat, even a Whaler. There are plenty of really good mid 80' to 90's out there for a fraction of what you will pay for a new one. Quality of a vintage Whaler is better than most new boats on market (Not refering to new Whalers)and the resale is better. A well maintained rig, 13 or 15, can be had for 4 to 5K. This will put you on the water, and give you a chance to develop the malady know as "Two footitis". If you decide boating is not for you sell the rig for what you paid and walk. Or if the 'itis' develops into a chronic case you have swapping material. Welcome to WhalerWorld. Jim Armstrong
1stwhaler	posted 12-18-2002 02:55 PM ET (US) Marsh,I just bought a 2003 17 montauk,and I love it,the quality fit and finish is outstanding,mercury is a great motor (except for a my friends 225hp optimax,junk)in the lower H.P range.You said you are in your 50's its time to relax no headaches,go for it,buy new,get the extended warranty on motor and enjoy,the boat will hold its value,evan a new one because its a whaler.goodluck
roofer	posted 12-18-2002 03:26 PM ET (US) I bought a new 2000 18ft outrage last season. My only previous experience is with my families ski boats. The quality on my whaler is great, it is the only boat I would want. plus if there are problems you have the warranty. I would shop the price, this is a buyers market (bad economy/winter), I am sure if you ask for contact information for sales reps around the country plenty of people from this site would put you in contact with some dealers that can show you a fair price. These dealers can most likely arrange for it to be shipped to you as well. I know if you buy a whaler old or new that you will not regret you choice. Good Luck.
ducktwin	posted 12-18-2002 04:03 PM ET (US) Marshhawk, The Mercury motors (four stroke) have Yamaha powerheads.
lhg	posted 12-18-2002 08:27 PM ET (US) Marsh - Everybody has a lot of opinions on which engine they like, including me, but I can honestly say that for the range of HP you would be using, the Mercury engines are fine, probably as good or better than anything else out there. This is taking emotion & brand loyalty out of the equation. In four strokes, the above post is only half correct. The 75-115Hp Mercs are as stated, basically Yamaha engines. But in the 30,40 & 60 HP versions are the reverse, the Yamaha engines are Mercury powerheads, but without the superior (over carbs) Merc EFI systems! So, for instance, if you bought a new Whaler 150 with Mercury 60 EFI 4-stroke, trading it for a Yamaha or Honda would be ridiculous. The Yamaha engine is actually a Merc anyway, and neither Yamaha or Honda yet have EFI in that power range. Disclaimer - I have owned nothing but Mercurys since 1968, and have never been towed in! But regarding your more serious question on which Whaler, being in your age group, I would not get too small of a Whaler. I would rule out the 130. At your age, a year or two later, you'll want a larger boat and lose in the trade. Instead, spend up for the 150 or even better, the 170 Montauk. I'm sure both will serve you well, the REAL issue being the mandatory sit-down seating and operation of the 150, vs the increased stand-up, walk around flexibility of the Montauk. A third, very reasonably priced alternative is a "sit-down" Classic 17 hulled Alert, from the Commercial division. These are getting quite popular, and the boat is in between the 150 & 170 in size & trailerability. Downside is that the interior seating and trim is white starboard, with a fiberglass console. Upside, is you can have installed any engine that you want, up to 100HP. Finally, all the above is predicated on the assumption that you want to buy new and not hassle with a restoration. But I would also seriously look for a top condition used 17 Montauk, 1983-2000, where restoration is not needed. From 1994, you dont' even have teak to worry about maintaining. They ARE out there, and are an extremely good value. The boat would be perfect for your needs, and with good comfort too. Great weather protection can also be purchased for this model. There is a reason the 17' Montauk was the most popular Boston Whaler ever built. Incidentally, it's nice to have you participating in this website. I hope you find a nice Whaler for your purposes.
jimh	posted 12-18-2002 08:30 PM ET (US) If you must have a new boat, I would not worry about the quality of a Boston Whaler boat. The high standards appear to be maintained. In terms of aesthics, the boats you mention (130-Sport and 150-Sport) are more similar to the classic Boston Whaler boat designs of the past than most of the other new designs. I am about your age (52). I find that I am using my 15-foot Whaler less each year because of the lack of comfortable seating for longer trips. You might want to consider a 170-Montauk if you are going to be sitting on the boat for several hours at a time.
Macman	posted 12-18-2002 09:14 PM ET (US) Buy a Montauk and you and don't look back! If you start with a smaller Whaler, that is where you will end up. A Montauk will provide you all of the features of a smaller Whaler with a more flexibility and comfort. I use mine for everything under the sun...now if it only had a cabin with a head....hmmm. Good Luck!
lhg	posted 12-18-2002 09:24 PM ET (US) Macman - order a Mills forward shelter, velcro on a lightweight drop curtain on the back of it fro privacy, and bring along a porta-potti. Your prayer will be answered!
Dick	posted 12-18-2002 09:27 PM ET (US) As a Montauk owner I go along with all that has been said in promoting it. The getting older comment is worth thinking about. With the Montauk you have a comfortatble RPS where you can either sit or stand to operate the boat. At 65 there is no way I could sit on a bench seat in a 13 or 15. Nothing but pluses for the Montauk. Dick
James	posted 12-19-2002 12:14 AM ET (US) marshhawk: I am 52 years old and after following this website for a while, I shared similar concerns regarding a new BW boat purchase. I purchased a 170 Montauk with a 4-stroke 90 HP this past March. I suggest that you consider it in you list of potential choices. I obviously think that Whaler is the way to go. I would just go a little bigger than you are considering. The 170 purchase pricing does not appear to differ much from the Sport 15. I use the boat in Raritan Bay, New Jersey and would not want less boat than what I have. My back is not the greatest in the world. There is significant comfort in being able to get up and walk safely all around the boat. There is criticism of Brunswick on this website. I just do not see any other similar sized new boats built that compare with BW in long term construction, quality, pricing and resale value. I disagree with those who put the Edgewater and Scout in BW's class. Left to my own devices, I would have initially purchased a Yamaha. However, all the BW boats now come as a packaged deal with the Mercury engines. The factory pairing does provide a lower purchase price, and as previously stated, the four stroke 90 is the same engine for Mercury and Yamaha. Speaking from personal experience, the 170 has ample power with the 90 HP and I have not had any engine starting or running problems, at all. The boat is very economical to run. The four stroke lack of smoke and idle noise is highly desirable to me. My dealer is Pelican Harbor Marina. You may want to contact them to talk. James.
marshhawk	posted 12-19-2002 06:04 AM ET (US) To all of you who took the time to reply (both on the forum and in private), thank you. You've given me a lot to think about but at least I am no longer concerned with the immediate quality of the new Whalers. My biggest issue now is convincing the spouse that the Montauk is the way to go...grin. However, the issue of comfort & safety should be big selling points for her. Again, thanks to all of you! When we make our decision I'll be sure to let everyone know. Until then, I'll keep on browsing these wonderful forums. Best of the holidays to all of you. Norm Saunders marshhawk
DaveH	posted 12-19-2002 10:19 AM ET (US) Norm (Marshhawk): I agree with most everything that was stated in the positive review of the new Whalers. I have examined them extensively and found little that would cause me not to purchase them. In comparison of the 150 Sport and the 170 Montauk, I believe that the value is much higher in the Montauk in function, comfort utility, and resale. You and your lovely bride need to insist on a test ride over various water conditions to experience both before you buy. Most dealers would be happy to accomodate you after a refundable deposit is placed. If you need to place an order this winter, see if they would arrange a sea trial with a sister dealership in Florida or Georgia. The boating industry is not doing well and I'm sure they would do anything to ensure you stay with them.
Bigshot	posted 12-19-2002 11:17 AM ET (US) Norm; Being you are looking at DE dealers....do you still have to pay sales tax if you bring it to MD? If so then no reason why not to shop. try NJ, only a couple hours away, etc. Being the 15's are about $15+k I would definately consider the 170. The new 150 is much more comfortable than the older 15's and legroom is much better and they have seatbacks and cushions, etc. I personally would buy a 17' alert with the bench seats and side console for about $7+k and you supply the engine and trailer. You could rig it out for about the same as a 150. and a 604 stroke would be plenty being it weighs LESS than the new 150. However the new 150 may very well ride softer than the older 17' hull now called the alert or standard. Go to their website and check out the commercial division....another great choice.
lhg	posted 12-19-2002 06:38 PM ET (US) Generally with a registered vehicle, whether it be automotive, trailer, or a boat, one can't duck the sales tax. You either pay it where you buy, or where you register, or some in each state, up to your home turf total rate, depending on tax rates where you buy. This is a downside to buying a packaged boat, since the tax goes on the engine also. When you buy boat and trailer bare, you can get any engine shipped in from out of state without tax. This makes the Alert seem like an even better deal, if you're willing to work with the extra hassle and rigging. A center console 17 Guardian, with console only, should also not be ruled out, combined with a Reversible Pilot Seat.
Dick E	posted 12-19-2002 09:22 PM ET (US) Here is your boat. This is a great buy at buy it now! Go to this link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1875251678
DaveH	posted 12-20-2002 09:04 AM ET (US) I agree with Dick E. This appears to be a nice boat if an engine survey finds it's OK. I especially like the fact the bow rail has not been installed.
Bigshot	posted 12-20-2002 09:51 AM ET (US) How could anyone buy new when you can get that boat for $12,900? Great thing is 5 years from now it will still be worth $10k where that $20k new montauk will probably lose about $8k in value over the same time frame.
homey	posted 12-20-2002 11:34 AM ET (US) Marshhawk, I also was lurking around on this site before I found my Whaler. There is alot of good advice here. You can't go wrong with a Whaler in my opinion. In reading your post its obvious you want a easy boat to handle with little maintenance... The 17' Montauk would be perfect for your needs and this is why, manuverability on or off trailer, comfortable seating, and great with bimini top. Not too small, as the 13 will get cramped after a season... New or Used? A used 17' Montauk in excellent condition will run you approx. $9,000 to $13,000 (boat,motor,trailer)Look hard and ask for maintenance records. If you go new your approx. $20,000 and boat dealers are nothing like car dealers. (Either boat will get you to the same location) New or Used both require regular maintenance. I would also suggest you take a seatrial/test ride before buying. If you haven't done so, take a basic boating course...Good Luck!