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Author Topic:   Fix-up & new gel-coat bottom, need info

mobey posted 12-26-2002 06:13 PM ET (US)
Any ball-park amounts for hours or dollars that one should figure to restore/ gel-coat (white) exterior hull bottom and surfaces of my 1965 16 ft Sakonnet? It is currently in O.k. / fair shape. A few scrapes, spider cracks, screw holes, wavey/ bumpy areas. Nothing really major. I'm trying to come up with a base line amount to work from. Any other advice regarding this process is appreciated.
LuckyLady posted 12-27-2002 05:18 AM ET (US)
I'm in the middle of doing the same thing on a 64 Nauset. The bottom was trash. No bow, cracks, stoved in on one area...etc..
I used a grinder to take off all cracked or glazed gel-coat. Used West System to fill in cracks, and holes. Next, used 3M two part marine expoy. It is the greatest I've ever used over 30 yrs working on boats.Also of sanding and since I was going to finish up with Awl Grip, I used their products for primers. Mainly 545 primer. Filling in with the 3M for fairing out. Just last week sprayed the bottom with the top coat. Five coats. Three one day. Two more one week later. I know many use gel coat as replacement. I just have great luck with West System expoy and Awl Grip. It is maintenance free and last forever under all conditions. You'd want to add bottom paint if left in water any amount of time. Great for trailering.
I have photos that I can email if you like.
Aloha
BugsyG posted 12-27-2002 07:06 AM ET (US)
I had a crack in the bottom of my Montauk. Same hull as your's. And we flipped it over. And had a 40 gal. Sand blaster and sand blasted the whole entire bottom!!
Please make sure if you are going to be leaving it in the water, put a BARRIER coat on BEFORE you put the bottom paint on. A barrier coat is like a slime that goes on and prevents osmosis from happening. Thats is the correct bottom.
Also please keep in mind that if you do have the bottom put on it, then when you take it out of the water. Make sure you power wash the bottom within 10 minutes or else it will dry up. Myself, I didn't get a chance to power wash it becuase there is no pressure washer and/or car wash by the marina. However, if you run the boat often like I do, then power washing really isn't a big deal. Just power wash it, then you will be ok.
Remember, Sun roof, Breaze control, Power Blender!
J.A.Z.Z.
jimh posted 12-27-2002 09:14 AM ET (US)
Advice to use a power-washer on the boat should be tempered with the warning that the high pressure of the water jet can penetrate the hull and cause blistering.
I would like to see further explanation on how power-washing the bottom paint of a boat hauled from [fresh] water prevents the bottom paint from drying if done within ten minutes of removal from the water. The boat was just in water. The power wash uses water. How does the water know that it is not supposed to dry when it comes from a power washer?
BugsyG posted 12-27-2002 10:39 AM ET (US)
This isn't complicated. You take the boat out of the water while the bottom is still wet. Therefore you get by a hose with a power washer, you clean it.
This is with or without bottom paint being on.
J.A.Z.Z.
mobey posted 12-27-2002 12:05 PM ET (US)
So how many hours total time are you guys putting into the entire restoration of the bottom? I am trying to determine how much is a reasonable amount of money to spend if I hire out all the work. Or, I might just find out that it just isn't cost effective to have a shop do this(?).
BugsyG posted 12-27-2002 01:35 PM ET (US)
It really shouldn't be that much money at all. It cost me $2,300 for the entire paint job on the whole boat. I probably put in about a good 3 days total on sand blasting my bottom.
J.A.Z.Z.
JBCornwell posted 12-27-2002 01:40 PM ET (US)
I could be wrong, but there may be more than one device that is called a power washer.
I don't think Bugsy is talking about a 1500psi+ power washer. It would be too easy to damage the hull with those, as JimH suggests.
I think he is recommending what a coin operated car wash would do to remove some slime and marine growth. I did that to my salt water Whalers routinely after every trip. Inside, too. Soap, then rinse.
For a first class restoration of the outside surface, Mobey, I would budget $2000 to $3000. The more you do yourself, the less it will cost.
Good luck.
mobey posted 12-27-2002 04:09 PM ET (US)
For about $3,000 I should should get the entire job done including all prep work, filling, sanding, & gelcoat..ready for the water? I don't really have the time to work on the boat myself (unfortunately), so I am trying to be realistic about the actual dollars required. I don't mind paying the proper amount for good work. Again, trying to get a budget scope put together. (Please respond), Thanks
jimh posted 12-27-2002 11:40 PM ET (US)
I am totally confused about what benefit accrues if you power wash the bottom of your boat within ten minutes of removal from the the water.
Advice from BugsyG says:
Make sure you power wash the bottom within 10 minutes or else it will dry up.
What dries up? The bottom? The bottom paint? The barrier coat?
If you have bottom paint on a boat it seems to me the last thing you want to do is to power wash it. The action of the water jet would tend to remove the bottom paint, which is typically ablative. If you are planning on putting a new coat of bottom paint on, perhaps a wash would be appropriate, but every time you recover the boat you should not be power washing the bottom paint. I think that is bad advice.
If you don't have bottom paint, you can just wash off the hull with a hose. I've been launching and recovering my boats and never power washed the bottom of them. I just rinse them with a low-pressure hose. Again, I would be careful with high-pressure washing. At least one other Whaler owner reported that following power-washing of his hull the next day blisters appeared, the apparent result of water forced into the laminates by the power washer.
Again, what is the "ten minute rule" have to do with this? If I don't have time to wash off the boat at the ramp, I wash it off when I get home, maybe 8 hours later. What did I miss with violation of the ten-minute rule?
Tom W Clark posted 12-28-2002 03:23 PM ET (US)
Jim,
Don't be confused. The advice offered, however inarticulately, is to wash the marine growth off before it dries. I have, in my youth, made the mistake of pulling my boat out of the water after a few weeks and then letting it sit overnight before scrubbing it. Once the slime or growth dries, it is very much harder to remove.
This may have to do with the swollen size of the flora and/or fauna attached to your hull offering more resistance to a brushed bristle or a power washer�s water jet or it may have to do with some chemical reaction that increases the adhesion of the organism after it dries.
Regardless of whether you are using a power washer or scrub brush and hose, you will be well advised to get to it as soon as possible. It is standard operating procedure at boat yards to power wash boat bottoms as soon as they are pulled from the water. At any of the dozens of haul out facilities within a five mile radius of my home, you will see workers in oil skins power washing the hull while it is still in the sling right after being hauled.
Damage from a power washer is entirely dependent upon the operator. It is a fine line between washing and damaging.
BugsyG posted 12-28-2002 06:18 PM ET (US)
Yes Marine growth I was talking about. Excuse me for not enforcing that. My apoligies everyone. Thank you very much Mr. Clark for pointing that out!!!!!!!
J.A.Z.Z.
Moby posted 01-02-2003 10:37 PM ET (US)
To answer your question about rough costs... I'm also in the process of restoring a Montauk. I have done all of the work myself. (Grinding, filling, fiberglassing, fairing, sanding, sanding, sanding, spraying gelcoat, sanding sanding...) A few months into the project, I asked a friend (who's in the business) how much it would cost to have the hull gelcoated and sanded if I had done all of the prep. work. His response: "A little over $1000." I don't know if he was trying to make me feel bad or not, but at this point, a grand seems like a deal!
I have enjoyed the work, but like you, I don't have much time to spend on it!
Good luck! (Great screen name, too!)
DCPeters posted 01-03-2003 12:42 AM ET (US)
Another member recently told me he could arrange for complete job for new gelcoat for about $100-125/ft. Seems to be a good deal to me.
I will try to connect with this member and get details, if they can be shared.
Al_A_Buy posted 01-03-2003 01:47 PM ET (US)
Mobey - Another alternative to doing it yourself is to find a local high school or tech school / community college that has a marine technology program. Many times they are looking for projects and will do the job for the material costs only.
Good Luck
Al W.

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Author	Topic: Fix-up & new gel-coat bottom, need info
mobey	posted 12-26-2002 06:13 PM ET (US) Any ball-park amounts for hours or dollars that one should figure to restore/ gel-coat (white) exterior hull bottom and surfaces of my 1965 16 ft Sakonnet? It is currently in O.k. / fair shape. A few scrapes, spider cracks, screw holes, wavey/ bumpy areas. Nothing really major. I'm trying to come up with a base line amount to work from. Any other advice regarding this process is appreciated.
LuckyLady	posted 12-27-2002 05:18 AM ET (US) I'm in the middle of doing the same thing on a 64 Nauset. The bottom was trash. No bow, cracks, stoved in on one area...etc.. I used a grinder to take off all cracked or glazed gel-coat. Used West System to fill in cracks, and holes. Next, used 3M two part marine expoy. It is the greatest I've ever used over 30 yrs working on boats.Also of sanding and since I was going to finish up with Awl Grip, I used their products for primers. Mainly 545 primer. Filling in with the 3M for fairing out. Just last week sprayed the bottom with the top coat. Five coats. Three one day. Two more one week later. I know many use gel coat as replacement. I just have great luck with West System expoy and Awl Grip. It is maintenance free and last forever under all conditions. You'd want to add bottom paint if left in water any amount of time. Great for trailering. I have photos that I can email if you like. Aloha
BugsyG	posted 12-27-2002 07:06 AM ET (US) I had a crack in the bottom of my Montauk. Same hull as your's. And we flipped it over. And had a 40 gal. Sand blaster and sand blasted the whole entire bottom!! Please make sure if you are going to be leaving it in the water, put a BARRIER coat on BEFORE you put the bottom paint on. A barrier coat is like a slime that goes on and prevents osmosis from happening. Thats is the correct bottom. Also please keep in mind that if you do have the bottom put on it, then when you take it out of the water. Make sure you power wash the bottom within 10 minutes or else it will dry up. Myself, I didn't get a chance to power wash it becuase there is no pressure washer and/or car wash by the marina. However, if you run the boat often like I do, then power washing really isn't a big deal. Just power wash it, then you will be ok. Remember, Sun roof, Breaze control, Power Blender! J.A.Z.Z.
jimh	posted 12-27-2002 09:14 AM ET (US) Advice to use a power-washer on the boat should be tempered with the warning that the high pressure of the water jet can penetrate the hull and cause blistering. I would like to see further explanation on how power-washing the bottom paint of a boat hauled from [fresh] water prevents the bottom paint from drying if done within ten minutes of removal from the water. The boat was just in water. The power wash uses water. How does the water know that it is not supposed to dry when it comes from a power washer?
BugsyG	posted 12-27-2002 10:39 AM ET (US) This isn't complicated. You take the boat out of the water while the bottom is still wet. Therefore you get by a hose with a power washer, you clean it. This is with or without bottom paint being on. J.A.Z.Z.
mobey	posted 12-27-2002 12:05 PM ET (US) So how many hours total time are you guys putting into the entire restoration of the bottom? I am trying to determine how much is a reasonable amount of money to spend if I hire out all the work. Or, I might just find out that it just isn't cost effective to have a shop do this(?).
BugsyG	posted 12-27-2002 01:35 PM ET (US) It really shouldn't be that much money at all. It cost me $2,300 for the entire paint job on the whole boat. I probably put in about a good 3 days total on sand blasting my bottom. J.A.Z.Z.
JBCornwell	posted 12-27-2002 01:40 PM ET (US) I could be wrong, but there may be more than one device that is called a power washer. I don't think Bugsy is talking about a 1500psi+ power washer. It would be too easy to damage the hull with those, as JimH suggests. I think he is recommending what a coin operated car wash would do to remove some slime and marine growth. I did that to my salt water Whalers routinely after every trip. Inside, too. Soap, then rinse. For a first class restoration of the outside surface, Mobey, I would budget $2000 to $3000. The more you do yourself, the less it will cost. Good luck.
mobey	posted 12-27-2002 04:09 PM ET (US) For about $3,000 I should should get the entire job done including all prep work, filling, sanding, & gelcoat..ready for the water? I don't really have the time to work on the boat myself (unfortunately), so I am trying to be realistic about the actual dollars required. I don't mind paying the proper amount for good work. Again, trying to get a budget scope put together. (Please respond), Thanks
jimh	posted 12-27-2002 11:40 PM ET (US) I am totally confused about what benefit accrues if you power wash the bottom of your boat within ten minutes of removal from the the water. Advice from BugsyG says: Make sure you power wash the bottom within 10 minutes or else it will dry up. What dries up? The bottom? The bottom paint? The barrier coat? If you have bottom paint on a boat it seems to me the last thing you want to do is to power wash it. The action of the water jet would tend to remove the bottom paint, which is typically ablative. If you are planning on putting a new coat of bottom paint on, perhaps a wash would be appropriate, but every time you recover the boat you should not be power washing the bottom paint. I think that is bad advice. If you don't have bottom paint, you can just wash off the hull with a hose. I've been launching and recovering my boats and never power washed the bottom of them. I just rinse them with a low-pressure hose. Again, I would be careful with high-pressure washing. At least one other Whaler owner reported that following power-washing of his hull the next day blisters appeared, the apparent result of water forced into the laminates by the power washer. Again, what is the "ten minute rule" have to do with this? If I don't have time to wash off the boat at the ramp, I wash it off when I get home, maybe 8 hours later. What did I miss with violation of the ten-minute rule?
Tom W Clark	posted 12-28-2002 03:23 PM ET (US) Jim, Don't be confused. The advice offered, however inarticulately, is to wash the marine growth off before it dries. I have, in my youth, made the mistake of pulling my boat out of the water after a few weeks and then letting it sit overnight before scrubbing it. Once the slime or growth dries, it is very much harder to remove. This may have to do with the swollen size of the flora and/or fauna attached to your hull offering more resistance to a brushed bristle or a power washer�s water jet or it may have to do with some chemical reaction that increases the adhesion of the organism after it dries. Regardless of whether you are using a power washer or scrub brush and hose, you will be well advised to get to it as soon as possible. It is standard operating procedure at boat yards to power wash boat bottoms as soon as they are pulled from the water. At any of the dozens of haul out facilities within a five mile radius of my home, you will see workers in oil skins power washing the hull while it is still in the sling right after being hauled. Damage from a power washer is entirely dependent upon the operator. It is a fine line between washing and damaging.
BugsyG	posted 12-28-2002 06:18 PM ET (US) Yes Marine growth I was talking about. Excuse me for not enforcing that. My apoligies everyone. Thank you very much Mr. Clark for pointing that out!!!!!!! J.A.Z.Z.
Moby	posted 01-02-2003 10:37 PM ET (US) To answer your question about rough costs... I'm also in the process of restoring a Montauk. I have done all of the work myself. (Grinding, filling, fiberglassing, fairing, sanding, sanding, sanding, spraying gelcoat, sanding sanding...) A few months into the project, I asked a friend (who's in the business) how much it would cost to have the hull gelcoated and sanded if I had done all of the prep. work. His response: "A little over $1000." I don't know if he was trying to make me feel bad or not, but at this point, a grand seems like a deal! I have enjoyed the work, but like you, I don't have much time to spend on it! Good luck! (Great screen name, too!)
DCPeters	posted 01-03-2003 12:42 AM ET (US) Another member recently told me he could arrange for complete job for new gelcoat for about $100-125/ft. Seems to be a good deal to me. I will try to connect with this member and get details, if they can be shared.
Al_A_Buy	posted 01-03-2003 01:47 PM ET (US) Mobey - Another alternative to doing it yourself is to find a local high school or tech school / community college that has a marine technology program. Many times they are looking for projects and will do the job for the material costs only. Good Luck Al W.