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Author Topic:   Polyethylene type materiel

Rick U posted 02-02-2003 11:48 AM ET (US)
I am considering replacing all my teak trim with some sort of polyethylene type materiel. I saw the term “whaler board” used in another thread. What is the best “plastic” materiel in terms of durability and resistance to elements?
Tom W Clark posted 02-02-2003 12:25 PM ET (US)
Rick,
It's "WhaleBoard", not "whaler board". WhaleBoard is a fiber composite that Whaler uses as backing for deck hardware inside the hulls of new Whalers. It is made by Rainier Richlite http://www.richlite.com/whalelite/products.asp It is not a polyethylene plastic, nor is it suitable for your described application.
I think what you are thinking of is something like StarBoard or one of its imitators. http://www.kingstarboard.com/main.php?link=starboard.htm
alkar posted 02-03-2003 07:09 PM ET (US)
Rick, I used Starboard to do exactly what you propose. If you want to see what it looks like you can access pictures of my boat under Barry's recent post "Pictures of alkar's..."
I think my boat looks fine, and it should be less work to maintain, but when you compare it's appearance with the looks of a classic whaler with properly maintained teak, the classic wins the beauty contest hands down.
In retrospect, I think the small amount of work it takes to maintain teak would be a pretty easy labor of love - especially when it's contrasted with the enormous restoration project that got me to this point. If I had it to do over again, and I may, I'd probably restore or replace the teak. I hope you don't feel the same way when you're finished with your restoration.
andygere posted 02-03-2003 08:44 PM ET (US)
Say it isn't so Rick! All that beautiful teak is one of the things that sets classic Whalers apart from the rest of the herd. Yeah, it's some work to get it looking good again (I've got 2 weekends into my OR 22 Cuddy already) but the results are worth it. Once it's restored, cover it and it will stay looking nice for a long time. For what it's worth, Starboard is pretty expensive, and starts looking kind of dirty after a while. Alkar did a nice job converting his teak to plastic, but alas, the boat has lost a bit of it's soul. Just my humble opinion...
Rick U posted 02-03-2003 09:04 PM ET (US)
Yah, I did notice the display at Boats US had dirt lodged into the texture of the plastic and yes, it is expensive. Ah man, what if I know I'm not going to oil the teak?
triblet posted 02-03-2003 09:28 PM ET (US)
I've got a '97ish Montauk, and I'm glad it's
wash and wear plastic. It's not a piece of
art, it's a tool, same as my tanks and my
camera. It works for a living. I take it
out, take it home, hose it down, and put it
away wet. I've been doing the same thing
for five years. It's not a piece of art, it's a tool, same as my tanks and my camera.
Soul? My PICTURES have soul. I hope. ;-)
Chuck
Barry posted 02-03-2003 10:40 PM ET (US)
What about using Cetol or varnish on the teak? I've used Cetol on all of my teak. It is fairly easy to apply, looks OK, and lasts several years. It is a bit of work in that to do it right you remove the wood from the boat, sand, dust, and then apply with a foam brush. If you're not too picky on the wood being real smooth you can just apply the 2nd and 3rd coats without any additional sanding. Those coats are applied 24 hours apart.
Here is a before and after picture of one of my hatches members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/hatches.jpg
Rick U posted 02-03-2003 11:01 PM ET (US)
Is it absolutely necessary to remove the teak to apply the material?
andygere posted 02-04-2003 11:58 AM ET (US)
Rick,
I removed all the cabinet doors and frames, but left the gunwale boards and cuddy door frame on the boat for refinishing. I sanded and oiled as I plan to keep the boat covered and had good results and durability on my Montauk with the same finish.
Chuck,
That's what's great about Whalers, there is a boat for everyone's needs. I think of my Whaler like I would a high performance classic car: It performs great, but still has nostalgic good looks. I'm one of those guys who likes working with wood, and actually enjoys the restoration process.
andygere posted 02-04-2003 11:59 AM ET (US)
Rick,
If your teak has never been varnished, you may not have to sand it at all. The 2 step teak cleaners do a nice job if the wood is in otherwise good condition.
Tom W Clark posted 02-04-2003 12:19 PM ET (US)
Rick,
It is not absolutely necessary to remove all the teak but it is highly recommended. In the end it will be less work if you do remove the wood pieces. An added benefit of doing so is that it will allow a more thorough cleaning/repair of any surrounding fiberglass.
I am going to disagree with Andy this one time and say that two part teak cleaners are just plain bad and evil. While they do an amazing job of making the teak look nice and clean, they do so by eating the soft grain out of the wood. In the long run they will greatly accelerate the demise of the wood. There really is no substitute for good old fashioned scraping and sanding.
alkar posted 02-04-2003 01:10 PM ET (US)
Rick, if you can defer your plastic/wood decision until you have taken care of all your other restoration work you may have more clarity on how you'd like to proceed.
I agree with everything Chuck said about the primary importance of utility. But during the course of my restoration I have started to enjoy the aesthetic qualities of my boat too. Learning about the boat's history, design, and the restoration process from other forum members has increased my enjoyment immensely - and that's a wonderful thing, because I can enjoy the boat even when I don't have the time to take it to the ocean.
If I started my restoration with my current perspective I would have made many decisions differently. Now, when I look at my home-made (but functional) radar arch, it REALLY bothers my eye. I should have just done the job correctly the first time. As you can tell from my earlier post, I'm not that fond of my plastic hatches either. I feel like I haven't done the boat justice.
You have a beautiful whaler. I can't imagine you'd be disapppointed in the long term if you decided to return it to it's original condition and keep it that way.
Montauk posted 02-04-2003 01:41 PM ET (US)
Rick,
Perhaps a compromise would be in order for your boat, keep the teak that you can cover from sunlight, sand and varnish. The teak that wil be exposed replace with kingstarboard, Starboard 2001 AS, which is a textured surface. Kingstarboard will send you samples of product and color upon request, I like the Seapearl color as it matches the console color on my 73' Montauk. The best price I have found on a single sheet, 54 X 96, is $315 w/freight. I will be using the Starboard 2001 AS to replace some hatches on my Casting deck but only need a half sheet. If you would like to split a sheet let me know.
Rick U posted 02-04-2003 03:18 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the offer but I thik I'll avoid the texture for trim work

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Author	Topic: Polyethylene type materiel
Rick U	posted 02-02-2003 11:48 AM ET (US) I am considering replacing all my teak trim with some sort of polyethylene type materiel. I saw the term “whaler board” used in another thread. What is the best “plastic” materiel in terms of durability and resistance to elements?
Tom W Clark	posted 02-02-2003 12:25 PM ET (US) Rick, It's "WhaleBoard", not "whaler board". WhaleBoard is a fiber composite that Whaler uses as backing for deck hardware inside the hulls of new Whalers. It is made by Rainier Richlite http://www.richlite.com/whalelite/products.asp It is not a polyethylene plastic, nor is it suitable for your described application. I think what you are thinking of is something like StarBoard or one of its imitators. http://www.kingstarboard.com/main.php?link=starboard.htm
alkar	posted 02-03-2003 07:09 PM ET (US) Rick, I used Starboard to do exactly what you propose. If you want to see what it looks like you can access pictures of my boat under Barry's recent post "Pictures of alkar's..." I think my boat looks fine, and it should be less work to maintain, but when you compare it's appearance with the looks of a classic whaler with properly maintained teak, the classic wins the beauty contest hands down. In retrospect, I think the small amount of work it takes to maintain teak would be a pretty easy labor of love - especially when it's contrasted with the enormous restoration project that got me to this point. If I had it to do over again, and I may, I'd probably restore or replace the teak. I hope you don't feel the same way when you're finished with your restoration.
andygere	posted 02-03-2003 08:44 PM ET (US) Say it isn't so Rick! All that beautiful teak is one of the things that sets classic Whalers apart from the rest of the herd. Yeah, it's some work to get it looking good again (I've got 2 weekends into my OR 22 Cuddy already) but the results are worth it. Once it's restored, cover it and it will stay looking nice for a long time. For what it's worth, Starboard is pretty expensive, and starts looking kind of dirty after a while. Alkar did a nice job converting his teak to plastic, but alas, the boat has lost a bit of it's soul. Just my humble opinion...
Rick U	posted 02-03-2003 09:04 PM ET (US) Yah, I did notice the display at Boats US had dirt lodged into the texture of the plastic and yes, it is expensive. Ah man, what if I know I'm not going to oil the teak?
triblet	posted 02-03-2003 09:28 PM ET (US) I've got a '97ish Montauk, and I'm glad it's wash and wear plastic. It's not a piece of art, it's a tool, same as my tanks and my camera. It works for a living. I take it out, take it home, hose it down, and put it away wet. I've been doing the same thing for five years. It's not a piece of art, it's a tool, same as my tanks and my camera. Soul? My PICTURES have soul. I hope. ;-) Chuck
Barry	posted 02-03-2003 10:40 PM ET (US) What about using Cetol or varnish on the teak? I've used Cetol on all of my teak. It is fairly easy to apply, looks OK, and lasts several years. It is a bit of work in that to do it right you remove the wood from the boat, sand, dust, and then apply with a foam brush. If you're not too picky on the wood being real smooth you can just apply the 2nd and 3rd coats without any additional sanding. Those coats are applied 24 hours apart. Here is a before and after picture of one of my hatches members.aol.com/bburtensha/outrage/hatches.jpg
Rick U	posted 02-03-2003 11:01 PM ET (US) Is it absolutely necessary to remove the teak to apply the material?
andygere	posted 02-04-2003 11:58 AM ET (US) Rick, I removed all the cabinet doors and frames, but left the gunwale boards and cuddy door frame on the boat for refinishing. I sanded and oiled as I plan to keep the boat covered and had good results and durability on my Montauk with the same finish. Chuck, That's what's great about Whalers, there is a boat for everyone's needs. I think of my Whaler like I would a high performance classic car: It performs great, but still has nostalgic good looks. I'm one of those guys who likes working with wood, and actually enjoys the restoration process.
andygere	posted 02-04-2003 11:59 AM ET (US) Rick, If your teak has never been varnished, you may not have to sand it at all. The 2 step teak cleaners do a nice job if the wood is in otherwise good condition.
Tom W Clark	posted 02-04-2003 12:19 PM ET (US) Rick, It is not absolutely necessary to remove all the teak but it is highly recommended. In the end it will be less work if you do remove the wood pieces. An added benefit of doing so is that it will allow a more thorough cleaning/repair of any surrounding fiberglass. I am going to disagree with Andy this one time and say that two part teak cleaners are just plain bad and evil. While they do an amazing job of making the teak look nice and clean, they do so by eating the soft grain out of the wood. In the long run they will greatly accelerate the demise of the wood. There really is no substitute for good old fashioned scraping and sanding.
alkar	posted 02-04-2003 01:10 PM ET (US) Rick, if you can defer your plastic/wood decision until you have taken care of all your other restoration work you may have more clarity on how you'd like to proceed. I agree with everything Chuck said about the primary importance of utility. But during the course of my restoration I have started to enjoy the aesthetic qualities of my boat too. Learning about the boat's history, design, and the restoration process from other forum members has increased my enjoyment immensely - and that's a wonderful thing, because I can enjoy the boat even when I don't have the time to take it to the ocean. If I started my restoration with my current perspective I would have made many decisions differently. Now, when I look at my home-made (but functional) radar arch, it REALLY bothers my eye. I should have just done the job correctly the first time. As you can tell from my earlier post, I'm not that fond of my plastic hatches either. I feel like I haven't done the boat justice. You have a beautiful whaler. I can't imagine you'd be disapppointed in the long term if you decided to return it to it's original condition and keep it that way.
Montauk	posted 02-04-2003 01:41 PM ET (US) Rick, Perhaps a compromise would be in order for your boat, keep the teak that you can cover from sunlight, sand and varnish. The teak that wil be exposed replace with kingstarboard, Starboard 2001 AS, which is a textured surface. Kingstarboard will send you samples of product and color upon request, I like the Seapearl color as it matches the console color on my 73' Montauk. The best price I have found on a single sheet, 54 X 96, is $315 w/freight. I will be using the Starboard 2001 AS to replace some hatches on my Casting deck but only need a half sheet. If you would like to split a sheet let me know.
Rick U	posted 02-04-2003 03:18 PM ET (US) Thanks for the offer but I thik I'll avoid the texture for trim work