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Hull ID problems
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ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
Hull ID problems
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| Author | Topic: Hull ID problems |
| waterwal |
posted 02-05-2003 12:05 PM ET (US)  
I recently posted a thread about restoring a corroded HIN tag. I got some nice feedback about how to order a new one. However, my problem is that I can't exactly read the number because of the corrosion. At the moment, I'm more interested in identifying the hull that replacing the tag. I've beaten the hell out of the tag with 3M restorer, and am able to make out the following numbers: 5371 80H Judging by the info I've pulled from the reference and from other posts, this number seems incomplete. If there are other numbers, I don't think I can revive them. All that said, there is an entirely different stenciled number in front of the "splashwell": 3B3970. There are number similar to this in the reference section, but they only go to a certain year. If anyone has any leads on this, I'd appreciate the guidance. I'll post some pics next week when I get them. One note- the boat looks something like the Currituck in cetacea, only with a non-Whaler center console. I'm thinking that this is a modified 1980 17' Sport because these numbers seem to suggest a hull made in August 1980. If anyone has any ideas from these incomplete numbers, any help is appreciated. I'll post more pics and a "personal history" of the boat next week. Honestly, I'm hoping to convert it to a Montauk. However I'm still extremely curious to see what she originally was, if it's possible. When I get the pics posted next week I think it should help. |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 02-05-2003 12:18 PM ET (US)
Wally, Your HIN originally read: BWC_5371M80H with only the underline being a missing number. Whaler HIN tags had some information pre-printed on them. This is because, for example, the "BWC" is a given. All Whaler HINs start with BWC, Boston Whaler's Manufacturers Identification Code (MIC). Likewise, in 1980 they were using the model year designation for their HINs and thus the ninth character was always the letter "M". "80H" indicates your boat was built in August as a 1980 model. We might assume that it was built in 1979 because Whaler's model year typically began in the late summer, but we don't necessarily know this. The 5371 is a serial number specific to your boat. I believe it was preceded by another number or letter that would have been common to a family of hulls, like the 17's, or maybe even the specific model. At the factory when your boat was built, they would have grabbed a tag with the above information pre-printed on it and stamped the month of manufacture and the individual hull's serial number. Over time the pre-printed information which was more or less painted on has worn off leaving only the stamped characters visible. |
| waterwal |
posted 02-05-2003 12:37 PM ET (US)
ok, now I'm getting somewhere. Thanks for the help here. I just did some more pounding on that tag. It didn't really look like there was anything between the 1 and the 8. With some more work, there seems to be an "s" which seems smaller (maybe 2/3) than the other digits. Would this be possible? Could the same apply for the "BWC" characters (ie, they'd be smaller than the other digits)? Is there enough info there to get an answer from Whaler? What are those stenciled numbers? BTW Tom, I put the check for those legs in the mail yesterday afternoon. |
| waterwal |
posted 02-05-2003 12:39 PM ET (US)
BTW, should I post this in the repairs section? |
| whalersman |
posted 02-05-2003 12:42 PM ET (US)
waterwal, Here is my guess on the missing numbers as here are the numbers from my 1978 Montauk that was made in February of 1978 .... BWCC6062M78G (Metal Tag) I think the letters that you cannot read are the ones that are not stamped into the metal tag. When I first looked at my metal tag years ago, here is what I could read without looking really close... 6062 78G This is because these letters are stamped into the metal tag. The missing letters above are not stamped into my tag. They appear to be lightly stenciled. When looking at my number close, I can make out the: I would guess that your number is: According to the reference section for models prior to 1984, your boat was made in March of 1980. (not August like you mention) This is just a guess from what I believe to be Logical... Of course my Logic has gotten me into trouble many times in the past. I hope this helps, |
| whalersman |
posted 02-05-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)
Gosh, I must be the slowest typist in the world... When I started typing, there were no replies to this post at all..... |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 02-05-2003 01:13 PM ET (US)
Joe makes a good point. I had forgotten that back when they were using the model year format, the letter code for the model year did not coincide with the calender year. Thus the letter "H" would indicate that your boat was built in March, not August, and I think we can safely assume that it was March of 1980. While I do enjoy these puzzles, you can just cut to the chase by sending Chuck Bennett an email with the Stenciled number and he will tell you exactly when, and as what model, your boat was built. |
| Bigshot |
posted 02-05-2003 01:16 PM ET (US)
I believe the stenciled # is the number you need to send to Whaler. |
| waterwal |
posted 02-05-2003 03:40 PM ET (US)
Thanks all! Sounds like I have enough info to send Whaler. I'll send both numbers. Next week I'll post results with the pics. It's an odd boat. |
| whaler22 |
posted 02-06-2003 02:26 AM ET (US)
Mr.Bennet was a big help for me. I sent him the stenciled numbers in my bow lockers and he was able to complete my HIN# for me. On my 1980 Revenge, Chuck told me the BWC 5A were silk screened on and only the month of manufacture/serial numbers were actually stamped on the tags. The stenciled numbers is how BW can identify your boat if it is ever stolen/or your HIN# plate is removed. Good Luck. David |
| waterwal |
posted 02-06-2003 03:30 PM ET (US)
Answers why the odd additions to the boat. How commonly do people purchase bare hulls? Here's the reply I got from Chuck. (By the way, his reply was VERY prompt. An asset to Whaler.) "According to Whaler's records serial number 3B3970 should have a 12 digit |
| whalersman |
posted 02-06-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
waterwal, I guess I was pretty close in my logic... Instead of BWCC, yours is BWCE..... Now you know what you have and you can make it into anything you want.... Good Luck, |
| waterwal |
posted 02-06-2003 03:38 PM ET (US)
Your guess was a hell of a lot better than mine Joe! :) Yeah, it's nice to have a "clean slate." So what if the slate's a quarter century old? thanks again. wally |
| whalersman |
posted 02-06-2003 05:09 PM ET (US)
Wally, One last note on this from me.... It stirkes me as odd that your boat was delivered to Falmouth Harbor Marina on February 29, 1980 and yet your HIN# indicates the boat was made in March of 1980... Also, February 29 does not come around except every 4 years.... So, look on the bright side, your boat is not really 23 years old if it only has a birthday every four years... It is only 5 3/4 years old :-) Regards, |
| lhg |
posted 02-06-2003 05:22 PM ET (US)
For years and years, you could buy any size Whaler as a Bare Hull. You still can in the Commercial Products division. Don't know about the recreational products these days. Now, it seems to be getting popular again. I recently saw a dealership with 2 15 Alert bare hulls, and 4 17's on hand. |
| BillB |
posted 02-06-2003 07:13 PM ET (US)
Ahhh the sweet mystery of Whaler serial numbers. Joe, It is interesting that your HIN starts with BWCC, Wally's bare hull with BWCE and mine with BWCB, all 17 hulls. Do you know how the boat was outfitted when originally delivered ? mine does have the factory bow platform, but is otherwise a stock "smirked" Montauk, perhaps that accounts for some of the differences in the HIN's. It would appear that the fourth through eighth characters contain both model information as well as a serial #. Maybe if we compare notes on similar boats we can crack this. If not I have a Russian cryptologist friend! He works for Beers. I also asked Chuck if there was any imbedded information in the "stenciled" number. He replied that "unfortunately it was just another way Boston Whaler kept track of their boats" Bill |
| whalersman |
posted 02-06-2003 07:53 PM ET (US)
BillB, As far as I know my 1978 Montauk is completely original as the day it came from the factory with the exception of the front pedestal seat I installed (Genuine Whaler) and a few other Genuine Whaler accessories. I have the Teak Bow Locker up front and the Teak Reversible Pilot seat, Console, etc., all original. A friend of mine has a 1977 Montauk. I just talked to him a little while ago and he is going to get the rest of the numbers from his boat. I do know that his boat is a 77 "G" or "L", which would make the boat manufactured in February or July of 1977. I will post his information here once I get it. I enjoy mysteries and research..... |
| whalersman |
posted 02-06-2003 11:37 PM ET (US)
BillB, I just heard from my buddy who owns a 1977 Montauk... His HIN# is BWCC5475M77L This would make his hull built in July of 1977. Also his stencil number is: Now this brings up a question in my mind... Logic to me says and I Assume: I hope this make sense and I hope I am not beating a dead horse here.... |
| jimh |
posted 02-07-2003 12:37 AM ET (US)
I have been making an assumption that the HIN's serial number field of five digits was reset each year. Perhaps that is not correct. They start (say at some point) with BWC-00001-[year data] and say the last boat made that year comes out at BWC-02001-[year data]. When they start numbering the HINs for the next year, do they start at "00001" again or do they continue the series with "02002"? |
| waterwal |
posted 02-07-2003 10:18 AM ET (US)
Feels like doing Navajo codework during the war! We should chip in and pay Chuck Bennett a consulting fee and have him write up a detail on how the # system has been employed over the years and post it in reference....or would that spoil the fun? :) |
| BillB |
posted 02-07-2003 04:24 PM ET (US)
I think making Chuck do the work would surely take the challange out of it. I would save that route for later. As I watch the snow pile up here(on top of the bay ice)I'm thinking that this would be a nice little winter exercise. We could try to create a matrix starting with identical hulls, i.e. the Montauk, with both of their serial #'s against their "as shipped" configurations. The larger the sample the better chance we have of seeing a pattern develop. Any other willing participants out there ? |
| whalersman |
posted 02-07-2003 04:56 PM ET (US)
I have contacted Chuck Bennett this morning and he has already replied to my email. Chuck is definitely on top of things. Anyway, here is his reply on HIN's. "Dear Mr. Kriz: Also, he made a statement about the Stenciled numbers and here is his reply. "On the stenciled serial number...the original 16'7" models just had numbers...later going to 3A then the numbers, then 3B, 3C, 3D, 3E with the numbers running in the thousands as the boats were completed until the next letter was used." Personnaly, I was beginning to think that every Montauk started with 3B but this apparently is not the case as Chuck mention above. I'm with BillB on this... Maybe we can get something going with the HIN's and the Stencil Hull ID's, and put something together. Here is what we have so far for Montauks. BWCB6112M76D - BillB 1976 Montauk BWCC5475M77L - Whalin Willy 1977 Montauk BWCC6062M78G - whalersman 1978 Montauk BWCE5371M80H - waterwal 1980 Montauk Does anyone have a 1979 Montauk so we can fill in the blank space... and of course any other years. BillB, "According to Whaler's records your boat was built in our Rockland, Mass. facility as a 17' Montauk and was originally shipped out to Las Vegas Boats in Henderson, Nevada on 3/7/78. I will post the rest of the information I get from Chuck Bennett once I receive it. Chuck Bennett, Regards, |
| doobee |
posted 02-07-2003 06:44 PM ET (US)
I'm afraid I can't offer much on the early HINs as that system had expired by the time I arrived and I don't remember the system. In the newer system I889, would stand for a 89 model year built in September of '88. I have a vague recollection of serial numbers being a more reliable "date of birth" than HINs because of rare but occaisional shortages of HIN plates, or HIN plates accidentally getting out of sequence. Getting back to the bare hull issue, I know that the majority of bare hulls were shipped to Canada where they were used as guide boats. If your 17 was indeed sold as a bare hull, it could have a different capacity plate than a typical model. Boats without a steering wheel were limited to 20HP max rating. I'm not sure when that became law, but I doubt it applied to early models. |
| waterwal |
posted 02-07-2003 07:59 PM ET (US)
doobee- What is it about the bare hull that doesn't allow for as high a capacity? Is there a structural difference, or simply the lack of the steering wheel at that time? My boat doesn't have a capacities plate. I know I would have to go to a dealer for one. 20hp. jeez. it's had a 90 for a very long time. |
| whalersman |
posted 02-07-2003 08:03 PM ET (US)
doobee, Thanks for your input.. According to the reference page here: After 1984 they change the letter to correspond to the months: So, the number you list in your post above, I889, according to the reference section here on continuouswave, is a 1989 hull but it was built in August, not September like you have listed. The 8th month is August, I know. I was born in August. I think you just mis-counted the months. I have started another thread conerning Montauk HIN's here: Regards, waterwal, A boat that had Tiller steering was not rated for nearly as high a Horse Power motor as a boat that had Remote Steering. This was in the past. I am not sure what the standards are now. |
| waterwal |
posted 02-07-2003 08:43 PM ET (US)
What's odd is that Chuck quoted my hull as February 29 (only in leap year). It was thus digitized as a March boat. Kinda funky... I have this image in my head of a box of tags from which the factory assemblers just grab any old tag when they get around to attaching them (with obvious differences for certain boats). That would probably explain some of the inconsistencies in the other 17 hull id post. As for my bare hull, I’m quite concerned about what I’m reading here of these hp ratings- I currently do have a console with a wheel. I guess my question is whether there is an actual internal and structural difference in these open boats which would forbid high hp for logistical/safety reasons, or is the hull the same, with the lower rating because the operator using a tiller would be in a more precarious location in the boat? I've been running with a 1984 Evinrude and it seems to be fine. I don't have a capacities plate, but have had a courtesy inspection by the USCG among other instances where any violations would be found, so I'm assuming with crossed fingers that I'm legally ok. I'd rather not leave my baby at a dealer for a few weeks just to find out what I can find out here. Does this make sense? I’m not sure if it does myself! : [ |
| waterwal |
posted 02-07-2003 08:49 PM ET (US)
that evinrude's a 90hp. oops. |
| whalersman |
posted 02-07-2003 08:58 PM ET (US)
waterwal, YourHull was built exactly like the rest of the boats at that time. The only difference is that it did not have Seating, Remote Steering, or a Console of some sort. I am not sure about the Capacity Tag but if you do not have one, I would be inclined to contact Whaler again and see if you could get one for your boat. You have already been in contact with Chuck Bennett, so you might also ask him what he would suggest. Joe |
| waterwal |
posted 02-07-2003 09:02 PM ET (US)
thanks joe! that's quite an assurance. i have a cousin with an early 80's montauk. i'll get his numbers some time next week. good luck with the # project. if i can help otherwise, let me know. |
| doobee |
posted 02-07-2003 09:30 PM ET (US)
No structural difference between a bare hull and any other model. The limiting factor was the lack of a steering wheel. By law tiller steered boats can not exceed 20HP (I could have this number wrong, what's the largest tiller steered outboard made today?). I believe that is still in effect today. As for the HIN, my recollection is that Whaler's model year starts in September. Therefore a boat built in Sept. of '88 is actually an '89 model year, and a boat built in august '88 is an 88 model year. September is the 9th Month, and I is the 9th letter of the alphabet. Am I remebering wrong? Anybody out there with an "H" in your HIN? What's the whole number? Whale on! |
| Tom W Clark |
posted 02-07-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)
doobee, There is no limit of 20 hp for tiller steer boats. The maximum horsepower for boats without remote steering is a simple formula that results in a lower number that for the same boat with remote steering. In the case of tiller steer classic Whalers the maximum horsepower limits are as follows: 11' - 10 hp These same hulls made now as CGP boats have slightly increased hp capacities I suspect as an accommodation of the motors that are most commonly available. In the Alert series the capacities are: 13' Alert - 25 hp What's the biggest tiller steer outboard I've ever seen? I saw two different boats this fall in SW Washington that were powered by 200 hp Yamaha outboards converted to jets! They were on the back of 20 something foot long aluminum river sleds. It was a strange sight. Wally, As these guys have told you, there is no difference in the hulls. Don’t worry about it. |
| doobee |
posted 02-07-2003 09:49 PM ET (US)
Thanks Tom. Tiller we meet again! |
| lhg |
posted 02-08-2003 02:03 PM ET (US)
When I was in BC, I saw tiller steered 4-stroke Yamaha, Honda & Mercury 50's on 17' Whalers all over the place. It is the classic set up for small salmon charters. The guide runs the engine from the stern, and two customers sit amidships in fishing seats. |
| The Chesapeake Explorer |
posted 02-08-2003 10:07 PM ET (US)
As Far as bare hulls go..When I bought my 1987 Montauk new from Gates marine in Deale Maryland (Dec 1988 they had it for a year to sell)I remember seeing another Montauk in bare hull with the seat rails ect stored in the boat banded together. As such the dealer put it together. I really did not know that Whalers were built at the factory with rails on ect. I guess if the dealer was local it could be so but shipping the boats it would take less space as a bare hull with the inners shipped later or inside the hull for the dealer to put together. The hole sawn in my center consol FG for the bottom cabinet door is a bit rough and I never though Whaler did work like that. |
| whalersman |
posted 02-09-2003 12:41 PM ET (US)
doobee, You were right about the serial number above.. I889..... I does stand for September... 8 Stands for the year it was made, 1988 and 89 stands for the year model it is, 1989. |
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