|
ContinuousWave Whaler Moderated Discussion Areas ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area Common Causes of Death at Sea
|
Author | Topic: Common Causes of Death at Sea |
fester |
posted 04-27-2003 11:37 PM ET (US)
On April 18, 2003 a father and son left Ventura, California in their 24 foot fishing boat. Conditions were bad and there was a small craft warning posted. Occupants have not been heard from since. From what I have heard, boat was found almost entirely submerged. I believe boat was found about 12 miles offshore. Nobody seems to know what happened. Alot of speculation, most of which centers around the fact that boat may have been quickly swamped or pitch poled, etc. Appears to have happened quickly in that I understand no distress calls were received. I do not know the make of the boat (I know it was not a whaler) but have heard it was a decent boat. In thinking about this, I am curious as to what are the most common causes of serious boating accidents and deaths in the ocean involving boats in the 17 to 35 foot range. I am curios to hear your thoughts. Thanks, Jeff |
doobee |
posted 04-28-2003 12:07 AM ET (US)
A perfect example of why I chose a Whaler. While the ocean seems to serve up its fair share of mysteries, I think the most common cause of death is collision, and alcohol is usually involved. The USCG probably has good statistics somewhere in their website. |
Sal DiMercurio |
posted 04-28-2003 01:25 AM ET (US)
The most common cause is swamping or someone falling overboard & the other jumping in after him to try & save him, & both are lost. I lost my son-inlaw in 1996 on the Bering sea, he fell over in rough weather in the dead of night & wasen't noticed in time, he was never found. Most others are from swamping, & either no life jackets, or they were put in a place you can only get to if the boat is floating. The biggest mistake anyone can make if someone falls overboard is to jump in & try & save them, usually they both die. Sal |
jimh |
posted 04-28-2003 08:28 AM ET (US)
The most common cause of death at sea in boats 17-35 feet is drowning. |
Barry |
posted 04-28-2003 09:15 AM ET (US)
And the majority of the victims who drowned were not wearing PFDs. I've seen some statistics that suggest the most common type of fatal boating accident involved capsizing, followed by falling overboard, and colliding with another vessel. The primary type of accident in general is collison with another vessel, followed by collison with a fixed object, and then flooding or swamping. Operator inexperience played a role in a large percentage of all fatalities, followed by hazardous weather/water conditions, and operator inattention. |
matawan |
posted 04-28-2003 10:23 AM ET (US)
I heard the boat was called Mean Green, and was a 22 foot Radon, a boat made in Santa Barbara Ca. These boats are used by commercial Divers and fisherman as well as many people who just want a good boat. These boats have a hell of a good rep and so does the guy that builds them. I thought that they came with flotation. |
fester |
posted 04-28-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)
The boat I am talking about was named Mean Green. I did not know it was a Radon. Around my area, Radons are thought to be one of the best boats you can have. For those who are interested, I think this is the Radon website: www.radonboats.com. Jeff |
PMUCCIOLO |
posted 04-28-2003 01:03 PM ET (US)
For the patient population of which I take care the top five reasons for "serious boating accidents" are: 1. Alcohol I occasionaly see crush injuries (from the hand being between the boat and the dock), lacerations from propellers (off to the OR!), and blunt head trauma (usually fatal). Inexperience and lack of judgement are the usual culprits, but almost every case we've had (covering a multi-county area with land and sea helicopter service) resulted from the operator's or passenger's intoxication. Sal's son-in-law was a victim of the most dangerous occupation in the world,(according the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report published by the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta) deck operations on a boat in the Bering Sea. Clearly, hypothermia and incredibly rough seas come into play in such a situation. Paul |
JFM |
posted 04-28-2003 01:14 PM ET (US)
That's right Paul, booze and cruise may rhyme but not mix very well. Regards, Jay |
Marlin |
posted 04-28-2003 01:47 PM ET (US)
Okay, so it's not Whaler-related, but... Just this weekend a 12-year-old girl from Germany drowned in the Potomac River just upstream of Washington DC. She was canoeing with her family, and their canoe was swamped in some rapids (of which there are plenty; it could hardly come as a surprise). 60-degree water, no PFDs. Frankly, I think it's amazing they weren't all lost. Wait, it IS Whaler-related! The rescue/recovery boat was a dark blue Whaler, about 24 feet. Looked like an Outrage, so that would make it what, a Guardian? One more PFD story- about 10 years ago, I very nearly lost my 2-year-old daughter when she fell overboard, at anchor, from our 27-foot sailboat. She plopped into the murky Rhode River on the Chesapeake and disappeared from sight. No PFD, because we weren't underway. I was fishing around frantically, and was lucky enough to grab a handfull of hair, by which I unceremoneously yanked her sputtering back on deck. Scared the living sh** out of me, and it still does. Nobody's fault but mine- stupid, stupid, STUPID. New PFD rules on my boats- if you're not an excellent swimmer, you wear the PFD before you come onto the dock. Experienced swimmers, any time the boat's in motion. -Bob |
DaveS |
posted 04-28-2003 02:54 PM ET (US)
I was just reminded last night why I own a whaler. One of my son's friends went out on the Mighty Delaware this past weekend, I even saw them pull pulling out of the driveway and thought, that's what I'd like to be doing but I had other things to attend. As it turns out, my wife told me that the people from around the corner made the newspaper because their boat started taking on water and eventually sank. Luckily, all survived. I then said to my wife that that was one of the many reasons I purchased the boat that I did. There's enough things to worry about while I'm on the water, the boat sinking from under me is one thing I'd rather not think about. DaveS |
soggy bottom boy |
posted 04-28-2003 05:42 PM ET (US)
I have to agree with the earlier post by PM. I have an acquaintance who has hauled in a few drowning victims and they have all been drinking and they fall over board with their "unit" hanging out of their pants/shorts, whatever. Soggy |
Knockerjoe |
posted 04-28-2003 08:02 PM ET (US)
Check this out: Hyperlink |
jimh |
posted 04-28-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
I have heard that most men recovered after drowning from falling overboard have their zippers down. |
fjjpal |
posted 04-29-2003 12:49 AM ET (US)
What are the statistics like on those jet ski's and wave runners. They scare the daylights out of me. They climb up the back of your boat to jump your wake sometimes 2 and 3 at a time. |
Morocco |
posted 04-29-2003 02:35 AM ET (US)
For more information on this trajedy: http://www.insidesportfishing.com/MessageBoard/default.asp?CLID=1 If the link doesn't work, just go to the "General Private Boater" discussion for the various threads authored by "jennyo" |
GeneNJ |
posted 04-29-2003 08:51 PM ET (US)
Last year in NJ, a fisherman boating alone in ocean, had his boat sink from under him. The good news is his cooler, with seven fluke, saved his life. He was able to hold onto it for over 12 hours before another fisherman spotted him, thinking it was an ocean sunfish. The rescuer kept the fish. |
jimh |
posted 04-30-2003 09:16 PM ET (US)
To show the depth and beauty of our English language, and the precision of expression that it allows, I have to correct a statement made above regarding a boat that "collided" with fixed objects. A boat cannot collide with a fixed object. A collision occurs when two moving objects make contact. If a boat makes contact with a fixed object it is referred to as an "allision". The boat is said to allide with the fixed object. See http://www.olemiss.edu/orgs/SGLC/SandBar/1.4bridge.htm for an example. |
PMUCCIOLO |
posted 04-30-2003 10:22 PM ET (US)
jimh, As Mr.Spock would say, "Fascinating." |
Jerry Townsend |
posted 04-30-2003 11:13 PM ET (US)
Come on now Jim - you gotta be kidding. I have three dictionaries in the place and none of them have the word "allision". My gosh, only a lawyer would have a book with that word in it - you ain't a lawyer are you? And in one of my dictionaries, I see the words for collision as "... a violent rushing against; hitting or striking violently together...". And then the definition of a collision path as, "... a course taken by AN (my emphasis) object...". But then, your attached article does "define' the 'word' "allision" as "... referring to a ship hitting a fixed object ...". Does the 'word' allision only apply to ships or boats? What is this world coming to? Gosh - sure hope that hooter can straighten this word maze up. And as always Jimh - thanks for your efforts and time. ------ Jerry/Idaho |
doobee |
posted 05-01-2003 12:00 AM ET (US)
In my neck of the woods we use another term when a vessel strikes a stationary object. (expletive deleted) |
Clark Roberts |
posted 05-01-2003 07:35 AM ET (US)
My Random House Dictionary of the English Language (second edition-unabridged) gives the difinition allision as "the striking of one vessel by another"... |
Barry |
posted 05-01-2003 08:06 AM ET (US)
The only definition I could find for allision is "The act of dashing against, or striking upon." (Webster's) In the article jimh sited it states in the Endnotes "1. The term “allision” refers to the collision of a ship with a fixed object." Based on that definition an allision is a type of collision. In this report http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1998/MAR9801.pdf , it states that "In marine usage, allision refers to a moving ship |
Robob2003 |
posted 05-01-2003 08:33 AM ET (US)
In this instance, I would chalk it up to stupidity. Going out in the face of smallcraft warnings indicates a lack of material between the ears. |
jimh |
posted 05-01-2003 08:52 AM ET (US)
Often when a ship allides with a well-lighted fixed object there is a presumption of negligence on the part of the master of the vessel. In December of 1997 at the southern entrance of the Detroit River the 635-foot ship BUFFALO struck the Detroit River Light, causing considerable damage to its bow. The light, situated on a granite and concrete foundation in 22-feet of water, sustained only minimal damage. The next shipping season the BUFFALO had a new master. |
Chap |
posted 05-01-2003 10:52 AM ET (US)
This is supposedly the ACTUAL radio conversation of a US navalship with Canadian authorities off the coast of Newfounland in October 1995. [Deleted totally apocraphal and widely circulated made-up story. See comments about urban legends below.] |
John O |
posted 05-01-2003 12:46 PM ET (US)
Chap, I have heard many versions of that story. The most recent was e mailed to me with a british ship and some other country's light house. It is funny, however I believe it is just a story. |
jimh |
posted 05-01-2003 01:31 PM ET (US)
The lighthouse incident is totally false. This urban legend has been debunked. See: http://www.snopes.com/military/lighthse.htm Please send your business card to Craig Shergold who is not dying in Europe (another urban legend). |
Whalebones |
posted 05-01-2003 02:40 PM ET (US)
I had a similar experience to Marlins PFD granddaughter story. I took a friend and her 3 year old daughter, a non-swimmer, sailing in the bay. She (the 3 year old) wore her life jacket the entire day but as we docked the mother started to take the life jacket off of her daughter. I had to insist that she keep in on until we were safely up the dock ramp, the mother considered this excessive but she complied. As soon as the little girl stepped off the boat she fell directly into the water between the dock and the boat, a narrow area that would have been difficult for me to enter had I needed to. The water was murky that day and for a brief moment she actually disappeared from sight but thanks to a properly fitted PFD she popped right up and I grapped her, she was safe. Getting in and out of a boat for the elderly and young children can be challenging, make sure they have life jackets on. |
jimh |
posted 05-02-2003 08:54 PM ET (US)
[Deleted lighthouse story.] |
Popeye |
posted 05-03-2003 10:55 AM ET (US)
Father, Son Still Missing; Boat Found After Three-Day Search Wednesday, April 30, 2003 SANTA BARBARA, Calif. - The Coast Guard?s examination of the boat from which two men disappeared offered no clues as to what secrets the vast, seemingly unforgiving sea may be hiding. Officers with the Marine Safety Group here concluded that the 24-foot powerboat Mean Green was not in a collision, but the investigation left the officials without any indication of what went wrong. And at press time, Randy Stone, 53, and his son Ben Stone, 25, were still missing. Leslie Stone, of Ventura, Calif., called the Coast Guard April 20 when her husband and son did not return from a fishing trip. Mrs. Stone reported that the men had launched Mean Green April 18 from Ventura Harbor for an overnight trip to the Channel Islands. On April 24, the fishing vessel Victory Sea Horse found the green-hulled powerboat overturned 11 miles offshore. Officials went to the scene where Victory Sea Horse found Mean Green capsized. Only the boat?s bow and stem jutted above the surface. However, finding the boat did not spark a secondary search for the men. The Coast Guard searches for people, not property, a spokesperson said. Officers searched for what they believe was a reasonable, prudent length of time - a good long time, a spokesman said. The Coast Guard launched a search for the Stones upon receiving Mrs. Stone?s report. Coast Guard units responding included rescue boats from Station Channel Islands, two helicopters, an airplane, and the 87-foot cutters Narwhal and Halibut. With no results as of April 22, Coast Guard officials suspended the three-day search. The effort spanned more than 2,600 square miles. Officers combed the sea lanes between Ventura and the Channel Islands and around Anacapa and Santa Cruz islands. Weather conditions during the search included high winds and heavy seas. Low water temperature, combined with high winds, can quicken the onset of hypothermia and lessen the time anyone can survive in the water, officials said. ?The sea can be very unpredictable,? said Petty Officer Louis Hebert. Despite taking every precaution, there is still an element of danger, the inherent risk of the sea, he said. A commercial towing company salvaged Mean Green and towed it back to Ventura Harbor. Investigators examined the boat at length but could only determine that it had not been in a collision. They could not determine if a mechanical malfunction may have been responsible for what happened or why the men went missing.
|
elaelap |
posted 05-03-2003 08:20 PM ET (US)
"Collision. Striking together of two objects, one of which may be stationary. Act or instance of colliding; state of having collided. The term implies an impact or sudden contact of a moving body with an obstruction in its line of motion, whether both bodies are in motion or one stationary and the other, no matter which, in motion." "Allision. The running of one vessel into or against another, as distinguished from a collision, i.e., the running of two vessels against each other. But this distinction is not very carefully observed." Black's Law Dictionary, Fifth Edition or, as an atty might cite, Black.Dict.5th (1979) at 69, 239 Seems as though jimh is both right and wrong at the same time...par for the course in my business. Tony |
jimh |
posted 05-04-2003 02:16 PM ET (US)
While clearly not in common usage by the general public, I am sure that in the practice of law before the Admiralty Bar that the term "allision" is probably much more common. |
elaelap |
posted 05-04-2003 06:22 PM ET (US)
I don't know, jimh. Here are a couple of recent admiralty cases where a small craft and a ship were involved in "collisions" with static, non-vessel objects: Leggat Estate v Leggat (March 30, 2001) No. 1954/97 & 3419/98 (Ont. Sup. Ct.), [2001] O.J. No. 1301 This case arose out of a collision between a pleasure craft and a rock face in Lake Rosseau, Ontario. As a result of the collision two passengers were injured, one fatally. These actions were commenced against the owner of the pleasure craft and the driver of the pleasure craft, the owner’s brother. The Court found the driver liable in that he was operating the vessel at an unsafe speed, failed to maintain a proper lookout, and failed to properly navigate the vessel. Interestingly, the Court also found the owner liable even though the owner was not in the boat at the time of the accident and the operator was apparently an experienced operator of small pleasure craft. The Court held that Part IX of the Canada Shipping Act clearly indicates the intention of Parliament to make owners of small vessels liable for the fault of their vessels and that since the vessel was at fault it followed that the owner was at fault. On the issue of limitation, the Court found that the operator could limit his liability but that the owner could not. The Court held that the owner was at fault or privity in that he failed to properly consider the trip to be undertaken by his brother. The Court said that the owner should have obtained an undertaking from the operator that the boat would be operated at less than planing speed until the rock face was rounded and then at higher speed with the operator looking above the windshield.
This action arose out of a collision between a ship and a wharf that occurred when the ship was performing ice breaking operations for the Plaintiff in the vicinity of the wharf. The Defendants denied liability on the grounds that they were not negligent and further relied upon an exclusion clause and time for suit provision contained in the contract with the Plaintiff. The Plaintiff denied that the clauses were part of the contract and further argued that on their proper interpretation the clauses did not apply to exclude the Defendants’ liability or extinguish the claim. On the issue of negligence the Court seemed to accept that there was a presumption of negligence on the part of the Defendants given that the ship had struck a stationary object. In any event, the Court did find as a fact that the Defendants had been negligent. With respect to the application of the conditions, the Court found that the conditions applied. In reaching this conclusion the Court emphasized that the conditions had been provided to the Plaintiff by the Defendants together with their quotation and that the Plaintiff had accepted that quotation with only minor changes. The Court accepted that there may have been a subsequent conversation between the Plaintiff and Defendants in which the Plaintiff advised some terms of the contract were not acceptable, however, such conversation occurred after the quotation had been accepted and therefore after the contract had been entered into. The exclusion clause relied upon by the Defendants was as follows: "The tug owner shall not in any circumstances be liable for any loss or damage suffered by the Hirer or caused to or sustained by the Tow in consequence of loss or damage howsoever caused to or sustained by the Tug or any property on board the tug." The Court noted that such clauses must be interpreted against the interest of the person who made it. The Court considered that the clause was unclear and ambiguous and held that it did not apply to relieve the Defendants from liability for damage caused by their negligence to the wharf. The Court next considered the notice and time for suit clause of the contract which provided that notice of a claim had to be given in writing within six months and that suit must be brought within one year. The Court held that this clause was most clear and that as the Plaintiff had not brought suit within one year its action was extinguished. In the result, the Plaintiff’s claim was dismissed. I, for one, intend to use "allision" in a deposition at the earliest possible opportunity, if only to see the puzzled look on the insurance company's slut (ooops! make that defense counsel). But I don't think I will use it at trial...who needs more than the usual amount of mockery from the judge? Tony
|
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.