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Author Topic:   Whaler Skeptics

skred posted 06-04-2003 08:25 AM ET (US)
I have to relate an experience that really says a lot: In the summer of 1990, in Algoma, WI, I was the recipient of several rude comments while fishing Lake Michigan in my former 13. While heading out to the breakwater, one fella said "You gotta be crazy, taking that little (expletives deleted) out on this big lake!" Now, he was sitting on his 26 ft. stinkpot with a buddy, guzzling beer at the time. I proposed a bet: stakes were my boat against his. He could get 4 of his biggest buddies, all get in my 13, and I'll pull the plug. If the motor head touches the water, I give him the whole rig. If it doesn't - he signs over his 26-footer... Interestingly, I had this conversation while I was standing on the starboard forward corner of the 13 (all 240 lbs of me). I thought he might get the hint, but instead, he immediately went for the bet, got up, started looking for some people to join him in my boat. His buddy stopped him and very quietly said to him "Don't be an idiot - that's a Whaler, and you're about to lose your boat..."
Gotta say, it made my year....

Bigshot posted 06-04-2003 10:57 AM ET (US)
I love that story!
jmarlo posted 06-04-2003 01:01 PM ET (US)
Akin to that story, over this past Memorial day weekend I took my 13 from Newport Beach to Two Harbors on Catalina Island, about 40 miles each way. Several boats passed me along the way, and gave me very strange stares. While I was parked at the "dingy dock" I had the satisfaction of knowing that I was probably the only such boat to get there on my own power--that is satisfaction!
skred posted 06-04-2003 04:51 PM ET (US)
Good to know others have some good stories to relate. I'd like to read more of them here....
Most boaters who don't know Whalers come away with a new respect for them - even the smaller ones. I never felt unsafe in my 13 - even 20 miles from shore on the Great Lakes.... I suppose other boaters thought I was a survior from a shipwreck in my "little lifeboat"..
Kingsteven18 posted 06-04-2003 05:40 PM ET (US)
If you get started here you are going to hear about all the 13's that go from SE Florida over to the Bahamas as well as the ones that went to Venezuela!
quickfarms posted 06-04-2003 06:25 PM ET (US)
How was the ride from newport to catalina?
I have considered going from long beach to catalina with my thirteen.
jmarlo posted 06-05-2003 11:38 AM ET (US)
The ride to Catalina was quite an experience. Once I got "dialed in" it was fine. Fortunately my boat tracks straight and the throttle can maintain consistent speed. I stood up, held onto my bowline, and "steered" by simply shifting my weight left or right, not unlike surfing. It was fun, rough ride.
DaveH posted 06-05-2003 12:33 PM ET (US)
jmarlo:
I suppose I would have "stared strangely" at the site of a yahoo just before his death, too. By the way, you were wearing a lanyard kill switch I hope.
p.s. I wouldn't have worried about the Whaler making it to Catalina, just it's foolish owner.
DaveH posted 06-05-2003 12:37 PM ET (US)
Whoa there cowboy!
Sorry jmarlo, too strong in the sarcasm department.
hardensheetmetal posted 06-05-2003 06:02 PM ET (US)
I went to look at a used 28 conquest about two years ago. The brokerage guy started in with a story of how he took an 11 sport from Stamford, CT out to Block Is. I would have to guess easily 80 miles. I think this guy had one too many Gansetts.
I made almost the reverse of that run in a 28 last week with 4-6 foot following all the way back. There is no frickin way a sane person would or could make that run in a 13 let alone an 11.

Dan

doobee posted 06-05-2003 10:34 PM ET (US)
I'm not sure any sane person would take yacht brokerin'. !)
andygere posted 06-06-2003 02:08 AM ET (US)
Translation for the non east coasters on the forum: Gansett = Narragansett Beer, named for the bay and town in Rhode Island. Dan, I haven't had one of those in years...brings back a few fuzzy memories.
dakota posted 06-06-2003 11:31 AM ET (US)
DaveH,
We take our 16'7" Montauk to Catalina and the Channel Islands all the time. This is southern California, not the Columbia River bar, and if you're careful about the weather, it's an easy couple of hours to the Isthmus from Marina del Rey in Santa Monica. Jmarlo sounds like he knows what he's doing, and I'll bet he had a hell of a time. Ya know, Grand Banks cod fishermen used to be dropped from their schooners in the middle of the stormy Atlantic in little flat-bottomed dories day after day, weather notwithstanding, and would fish all day, then either sail or row back to their ship.
I think some of the guys on this site must spend their time boating on placid ponds, and think that any venture onto the ocean is fraught with danger.
Bigshot posted 06-06-2003 01:43 PM ET (US)
Actually that is just human nature. Start a thread on driving at night and you will see a bunch who will say it is too dangerous and we must be crazy for driving at night, etc. I grew up on the Barnegat inlet which is the 3rd roughest inlet on the Eastern seaboard. To me the Gulf is for wussies. Some here think the Gulf is dangerous. It s depending on your boating abilities, sense of direction, common sense, etc. For those who think going to Catalina is suicidal.....for them it would be certain death. For some of us it is a walk in the park as long as weather cooperates. If weather does not then it will be a few hours of misery at 6knots but I will guarantee you'll see us on shore.....alive and boat intact.
DaveH posted 06-09-2003 11:54 AM ET (US)
Dakota:
My comments were not directed towards the ride to Catalina (been there once, very nice) but rather the practice of standing up in a 13 holding the bow line for balance and leaning from side to side to steer. I guessed he was alone based upon these comments.
How long do you think the body can withstand the effects of hypothermia in water that, at best in the summer is 75 degrees? The answer is about 10 to 12 hours before death. That figure drops to 2-3 hours when the water temperature is around 58-60 degrees which is quite normal for southern California 9 months out of the year. Disorientation occurs when the body core drops only 3 degrees.
I have a lot of Ocean time but I have witnessed many who do not respect the Ocean. I would rather have boaters be cautious than to have to perform SAR for a man who fell overboard off his Whaler while standing.
Hugh Williams posted 06-10-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)
All of my friends think I am crazy! I tell them it is a whaler. This past spring 2 freinds an I went out fishing in the gulf 30 miles out in my 16 dauntless. While out there, another boat pulled up next to us about double our size and speed. He asked us if we were alright? we asked him which way was Florida? He laughed and said just let us know if you need anything and continued on at sixty three mph. It was a nice day but it was just one of those many whaler moments that make you proud. Like the time my dad and I went to Destin From Alligator PT. 165 miles one way. We made in about eight hours. The trip was mostly in the ICW but there parts that had a heavy chop that were tough. We spent a couple of night there and went king fishing. While heading out one morning through the pass we knew it would be rough but the tide was going out and the wind was blowing towards shore, hard! The waves were stacked close 7 ft. high. We headed up one, and it droped us out of the sky slamming us into the next. We dove through the wave, water flying over our heads as we duck behind the wind sheild. We had taken on a lot of water and weighted down the back. Water the top of the transom dipped below the water line as we headed up another. The water quickly drained out the back. At this point we decided to try another day. We carefully turned around and waved to all of the other boats that were watching as we headed for calmer water. We did have some nice days and made it out twenty three miles one day In the D16 before heading back to Alligator Pt.
huladick posted 06-10-2003 12:44 AM ET (US)
Dave H. Not sure where the hypothermia factor comes into play here. Whalers don't sink, man stays dry. The only thing that keeps him from his destination is motor problems or sudden loss of gonads.... Either way, dry again...
DaveH posted 06-10-2003 11:16 AM ET (US)
Huladick:
To help answer your question, please review the posts above where jmarlo mentions that he's is standing in his 13 while holding onto the bow line for balance and leaning from side to side to steer. The 13 has about one foot of freeboard which is not enough to prevent him from falling overboard if the boat hits a wave in an unusual manner.
I assume he is alone based upon his ability to steer with his leaning. If he was not wearing a lanyard kill switch, the boat would continue on its course (he stated it holds a throttle position) away from him. That's why I said the boat would make it to Catalina but maybe not with him in it. They call these events "accidents" and they always happen unexpectedly. That's why I mentioned hypothermia. I have no problems with taking a 13 to Catalina Island.
Duckin Whalers posted 06-10-2003 04:05 PM ET (US)
I have had my 13' for 23 years now. I am 28. The little boat has been in practically every part of the Puget Sound and Every inland lake in Washington State. Pursuing every fish there is to be fished. Stories of owners going long distances in the boat is of no surprize. I used to run from Everett to Point No Point with my Dad during Salmon derbies. That can be a bruttaly choppy ride when the wind kicks. The lesson to be learned is that any 13' owner that motors for 30 miles in semi-rough seas will never do it unless neccessary because they will end up spending 10X more money in the Chiropracters office than the boat is worth. By the time you hit the dock you feel like you've been running a jack hammer for 12 hours straight. There is no dought that the 13' can take heavy seas with the best of them but, the problem that I have is that when motoring in heavy seas with the plug out more water is taken on than can be removed. i have been in this situation a few times and had to head for shelter of and island bay to be able to run the water out. The weight of the water doesn't allow the boat to manuever and position quickly to anticipate striking the swells and troughs to minimize painfull impacts. as Forrest would say...."and that is all I have to say about that."
quickfarms posted 06-10-2003 04:30 PM ET (US)
Taking a thirteen to catalina sounds fun if the conditions are right. When I was growing up we used to take our thirteens in the Atlantic all of the time. Going out in the ocean did not bother me, or my dad, I was actually more concerned about running throught the Point Pleasant Canal on the intercoastal waterway in New Jersey. If the tide was running a wall of water would develop under the old route 88 bridge. The second concern was running the Manasquan inlet but we would use a larger boat to brake the waves for us.
I have grown up on boats and my parents taught me to alway carry the appropriate safety gear. This included a 25 mm flare gun.
When we did our ocean runs or ventured outside of our local water we always took several thirteens.
The final requirment that our parents had was to know an approximate schedule for our trips. We were instructed to call them up to inform them if we were going to be significantally late due to any reason.

dakota posted 06-11-2003 01:53 PM ET (US)
I think everyone's on the same page here. DaveH made it clear that his concern involved the possibility of jmarlo falling overboard, which would indeed be disasterous unless his kill switch lanyard was properly hooked up. Dave acknowledges that the trip itself in a BW 13 in decent weather would not be reckless. I take my Montauk out alone all the time, and always use the lanyard. I also keep a waterproof handheld VHF in my pocket, and stay aware of my GPS numbers as I cruise along. Life vest...absolutely.
Duckin Whalers posted 06-12-2003 11:52 AM ET (US)
Jmarlo, read the posting I made in the "rescue stories" thread. it mentions a kill switch lanyard and lack of PFD's. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005147.html
jmarlo posted 06-12-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
Man o man, post a controversial topic and let the responses fly. Actually, thats the beauty of this forum--the differing opinions and the information to be gleamed.
I do agree that safety is first concern--including PFD, lanyard kill switch, and caution. However, that does not mean one can't have fun occasionaly, even if that may be frowned upon by others.
My only beef is when fools get into trouble and then blame others, i.e. not accepting the risk of their own behavior and its consequences.
Duckin Whalers posted 06-12-2003 01:43 PM ET (US)
Yes, that is the truth. There are many ways to endanger yourself. I can say that I have made some "not so smart" choices on the water. Your story reminded me of when I took a friend out in rough water. He played "cowboy" with the bow line too. I guess there is some phenomenon related to the ride of a 13' and riding a bucking bull.

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Author	Topic: Whaler Skeptics
skred	posted 06-04-2003 08:25 AM ET (US) I have to relate an experience that really says a lot: In the summer of 1990, in Algoma, WI, I was the recipient of several rude comments while fishing Lake Michigan in my former 13. While heading out to the breakwater, one fella said "You gotta be crazy, taking that little (expletives deleted) out on this big lake!" Now, he was sitting on his 26 ft. stinkpot with a buddy, guzzling beer at the time. I proposed a bet: stakes were my boat against his. He could get 4 of his biggest buddies, all get in my 13, and I'll pull the plug. If the motor head touches the water, I give him the whole rig. If it doesn't - he signs over his 26-footer... Interestingly, I had this conversation while I was standing on the starboard forward corner of the 13 (all 240 lbs of me). I thought he might get the hint, but instead, he immediately went for the bet, got up, started looking for some people to join him in my boat. His buddy stopped him and very quietly said to him "Don't be an idiot - that's a Whaler, and you're about to lose your boat..." Gotta say, it made my year....
Bigshot	posted 06-04-2003 10:57 AM ET (US) I love that story!
jmarlo	posted 06-04-2003 01:01 PM ET (US) Akin to that story, over this past Memorial day weekend I took my 13 from Newport Beach to Two Harbors on Catalina Island, about 40 miles each way. Several boats passed me along the way, and gave me very strange stares. While I was parked at the "dingy dock" I had the satisfaction of knowing that I was probably the only such boat to get there on my own power--that is satisfaction!
skred	posted 06-04-2003 04:51 PM ET (US) Good to know others have some good stories to relate. I'd like to read more of them here.... Most boaters who don't know Whalers come away with a new respect for them - even the smaller ones. I never felt unsafe in my 13 - even 20 miles from shore on the Great Lakes.... I suppose other boaters thought I was a survior from a shipwreck in my "little lifeboat"..
Kingsteven18	posted 06-04-2003 05:40 PM ET (US) If you get started here you are going to hear about all the 13's that go from SE Florida over to the Bahamas as well as the ones that went to Venezuela!
quickfarms	posted 06-04-2003 06:25 PM ET (US) How was the ride from newport to catalina? I have considered going from long beach to catalina with my thirteen.
jmarlo	posted 06-05-2003 11:38 AM ET (US) The ride to Catalina was quite an experience. Once I got "dialed in" it was fine. Fortunately my boat tracks straight and the throttle can maintain consistent speed. I stood up, held onto my bowline, and "steered" by simply shifting my weight left or right, not unlike surfing. It was fun, rough ride.
DaveH	posted 06-05-2003 12:33 PM ET (US) jmarlo: I suppose I would have "stared strangely" at the site of a yahoo just before his death, too. By the way, you were wearing a lanyard kill switch I hope. p.s. I wouldn't have worried about the Whaler making it to Catalina, just it's foolish owner.
DaveH	posted 06-05-2003 12:37 PM ET (US) Whoa there cowboy! Sorry jmarlo, too strong in the sarcasm department.
hardensheetmetal	posted 06-05-2003 06:02 PM ET (US) I went to look at a used 28 conquest about two years ago. The brokerage guy started in with a story of how he took an 11 sport from Stamford, CT out to Block Is. I would have to guess easily 80 miles. I think this guy had one too many Gansetts. I made almost the reverse of that run in a 28 last week with 4-6 foot following all the way back. There is no frickin way a sane person would or could make that run in a 13 let alone an 11. Dan
doobee	posted 06-05-2003 10:34 PM ET (US) I'm not sure any sane person would take yacht brokerin'. !)
andygere	posted 06-06-2003 02:08 AM ET (US) Translation for the non east coasters on the forum: Gansett = Narragansett Beer, named for the bay and town in Rhode Island. Dan, I haven't had one of those in years...brings back a few fuzzy memories.
dakota	posted 06-06-2003 11:31 AM ET (US) DaveH, We take our 16'7" Montauk to Catalina and the Channel Islands all the time. This is southern California, not the Columbia River bar, and if you're careful about the weather, it's an easy couple of hours to the Isthmus from Marina del Rey in Santa Monica. Jmarlo sounds like he knows what he's doing, and I'll bet he had a hell of a time. Ya know, Grand Banks cod fishermen used to be dropped from their schooners in the middle of the stormy Atlantic in little flat-bottomed dories day after day, weather notwithstanding, and would fish all day, then either sail or row back to their ship. I think some of the guys on this site must spend their time boating on placid ponds, and think that any venture onto the ocean is fraught with danger.
Bigshot	posted 06-06-2003 01:43 PM ET (US) Actually that is just human nature. Start a thread on driving at night and you will see a bunch who will say it is too dangerous and we must be crazy for driving at night, etc. I grew up on the Barnegat inlet which is the 3rd roughest inlet on the Eastern seaboard. To me the Gulf is for wussies. Some here think the Gulf is dangerous. It s depending on your boating abilities, sense of direction, common sense, etc. For those who think going to Catalina is suicidal.....for them it would be certain death. For some of us it is a walk in the park as long as weather cooperates. If weather does not then it will be a few hours of misery at 6knots but I will guarantee you'll see us on shore.....alive and boat intact.
DaveH	posted 06-09-2003 11:54 AM ET (US) Dakota: My comments were not directed towards the ride to Catalina (been there once, very nice) but rather the practice of standing up in a 13 holding the bow line for balance and leaning from side to side to steer. I guessed he was alone based upon these comments. How long do you think the body can withstand the effects of hypothermia in water that, at best in the summer is 75 degrees? The answer is about 10 to 12 hours before death. That figure drops to 2-3 hours when the water temperature is around 58-60 degrees which is quite normal for southern California 9 months out of the year. Disorientation occurs when the body core drops only 3 degrees. I have a lot of Ocean time but I have witnessed many who do not respect the Ocean. I would rather have boaters be cautious than to have to perform SAR for a man who fell overboard off his Whaler while standing.
Hugh Williams	posted 06-10-2003 12:19 AM ET (US) All of my friends think I am crazy! I tell them it is a whaler. This past spring 2 freinds an I went out fishing in the gulf 30 miles out in my 16 dauntless. While out there, another boat pulled up next to us about double our size and speed. He asked us if we were alright? we asked him which way was Florida? He laughed and said just let us know if you need anything and continued on at sixty three mph. It was a nice day but it was just one of those many whaler moments that make you proud. Like the time my dad and I went to Destin From Alligator PT. 165 miles one way. We made in about eight hours. The trip was mostly in the ICW but there parts that had a heavy chop that were tough. We spent a couple of night there and went king fishing. While heading out one morning through the pass we knew it would be rough but the tide was going out and the wind was blowing towards shore, hard! The waves were stacked close 7 ft. high. We headed up one, and it droped us out of the sky slamming us into the next. We dove through the wave, water flying over our heads as we duck behind the wind sheild. We had taken on a lot of water and weighted down the back. Water the top of the transom dipped below the water line as we headed up another. The water quickly drained out the back. At this point we decided to try another day. We carefully turned around and waved to all of the other boats that were watching as we headed for calmer water. We did have some nice days and made it out twenty three miles one day In the D16 before heading back to Alligator Pt.
huladick	posted 06-10-2003 12:44 AM ET (US) Dave H. Not sure where the hypothermia factor comes into play here. Whalers don't sink, man stays dry. The only thing that keeps him from his destination is motor problems or sudden loss of gonads.... Either way, dry again...
DaveH	posted 06-10-2003 11:16 AM ET (US) Huladick: To help answer your question, please review the posts above where jmarlo mentions that he's is standing in his 13 while holding onto the bow line for balance and leaning from side to side to steer. The 13 has about one foot of freeboard which is not enough to prevent him from falling overboard if the boat hits a wave in an unusual manner. I assume he is alone based upon his ability to steer with his leaning. If he was not wearing a lanyard kill switch, the boat would continue on its course (he stated it holds a throttle position) away from him. That's why I said the boat would make it to Catalina but maybe not with him in it. They call these events "accidents" and they always happen unexpectedly. That's why I mentioned hypothermia. I have no problems with taking a 13 to Catalina Island.
Duckin Whalers	posted 06-10-2003 04:05 PM ET (US) I have had my 13' for 23 years now. I am 28. The little boat has been in practically every part of the Puget Sound and Every inland lake in Washington State. Pursuing every fish there is to be fished. Stories of owners going long distances in the boat is of no surprize. I used to run from Everett to Point No Point with my Dad during Salmon derbies. That can be a bruttaly choppy ride when the wind kicks. The lesson to be learned is that any 13' owner that motors for 30 miles in semi-rough seas will never do it unless neccessary because they will end up spending 10X more money in the Chiropracters office than the boat is worth. By the time you hit the dock you feel like you've been running a jack hammer for 12 hours straight. There is no dought that the 13' can take heavy seas with the best of them but, the problem that I have is that when motoring in heavy seas with the plug out more water is taken on than can be removed. i have been in this situation a few times and had to head for shelter of and island bay to be able to run the water out. The weight of the water doesn't allow the boat to manuever and position quickly to anticipate striking the swells and troughs to minimize painfull impacts. as Forrest would say...."and that is all I have to say about that."
quickfarms	posted 06-10-2003 04:30 PM ET (US) Taking a thirteen to catalina sounds fun if the conditions are right. When I was growing up we used to take our thirteens in the Atlantic all of the time. Going out in the ocean did not bother me, or my dad, I was actually more concerned about running throught the Point Pleasant Canal on the intercoastal waterway in New Jersey. If the tide was running a wall of water would develop under the old route 88 bridge. The second concern was running the Manasquan inlet but we would use a larger boat to brake the waves for us. I have grown up on boats and my parents taught me to alway carry the appropriate safety gear. This included a 25 mm flare gun. When we did our ocean runs or ventured outside of our local water we always took several thirteens. The final requirment that our parents had was to know an approximate schedule for our trips. We were instructed to call them up to inform them if we were going to be significantally late due to any reason.
dakota	posted 06-11-2003 01:53 PM ET (US) I think everyone's on the same page here. DaveH made it clear that his concern involved the possibility of jmarlo falling overboard, which would indeed be disasterous unless his kill switch lanyard was properly hooked up. Dave acknowledges that the trip itself in a BW 13 in decent weather would not be reckless. I take my Montauk out alone all the time, and always use the lanyard. I also keep a waterproof handheld VHF in my pocket, and stay aware of my GPS numbers as I cruise along. Life vest...absolutely.
Duckin Whalers	posted 06-12-2003 11:52 AM ET (US) Jmarlo, read the posting I made in the "rescue stories" thread. it mentions a kill switch lanyard and lack of PFD's. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005147.html
jmarlo	posted 06-12-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) Man o man, post a controversial topic and let the responses fly. Actually, thats the beauty of this forum--the differing opinions and the information to be gleamed. I do agree that safety is first concern--including PFD, lanyard kill switch, and caution. However, that does not mean one can't have fun occasionaly, even if that may be frowned upon by others. My only beef is when fools get into trouble and then blame others, i.e. not accepting the risk of their own behavior and its consequences.
Duckin Whalers	posted 06-12-2003 01:43 PM ET (US) Yes, that is the truth. There are many ways to endanger yourself. I can say that I have made some "not so smart" choices on the water. Your story reminded me of when I took a friend out in rough water. He played "cowboy" with the bow line too. I guess there is some phenomenon related to the ride of a 13' and riding a bucking bull.