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Author Topic:   Thunderstorm in a 16/17
elaelap posted 07-26-2003 06:27 PM ET (US)   Profile for elaelap   Send Email to elaelap  
Have we done this one recently?

Yesterday I was fishing out about seven miles on a warmish, sticky, foggy day here in northern California when a dull boom woke me out of my boredom (salmon were not biting). The VHF crackled, and another thunder roll, closer this time; couldn't see any lightning...yet. The late morning sky darkened dramatically. Chatter on the radio from boats to the south -- a thunderstorm was moving swiftly up the coast from Pt Reyes, with wind shifts and brief heavy rainfall. Then I could see the lightning flashes, many of them sometimes only twenty seconds apart with thunder following louder and more immediately after each bolt, and a burnt ozone smell in the now-breathless air.

So what to do on little 16/17 surrounded by stainless steel rails higher than my Katama's console, with 3 fishing rods pointing straight up, an 8 ft Shakespeare antenna, and a 5 ft aluminum net, also pointing toward the now-electric sky? Summer thunderstorms are rare in this neck of the woods, and I hadn't anticipated dealing with any; hadn't researched the ability of a small BW to withstand a bolt, or made any contingency plans at all.

I turned off the VHF and lowered the antenna, pulled the rods and net out of their holders and laid them on the deck, turned off my fishfinder and GPS (for no good reason except superstition, I think), and juiced for the harbor. The wind picked up a little, and the seas became more confused, but nothing like a serious line squall. Except for getting a good soaking, there's really nothing more to tell. There were a lot of boats out fishing yesterday, and most of them just ignored the little storm and kept fishing...

What would you have done, guys and gals, and why?

Tony

HAPPYJIM posted 07-26-2003 07:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for HAPPYJIM  Send Email to HAPPYJIM     
Here in NE North Carolina, we deal with afternoon thunderstorms a lot in the summer.

I check weather, file a float plan, watch the sky and go WOT if a water spout sneaks up.

If you do get caught in a thunderstorm, keep the bow into the wind.

whalersman posted 07-26-2003 09:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalersman  Send Email to whalersman     
I was fishing on a lake in Oregon this past week... The same thing started happening to me that you experienced... I saw the storm coming and watched it closely, it was coming right for us...

The strange part is, that the fish started biting like crazy.... The first two days fishing in really hot weather had turned the trout off... I have had storms like this happen before on this particular lake and when the thunder and lightning comes in, the bite is ON.... One large trout after another until the storm was getting TOO close.... I headed for shore... I think it is better to be save then sorry....

I waited for the storm to pass, about 20 to 30 minutes, and then went back out and caught several more trout...

Same thing happened the next morning only the storm skirted the lake so we stayed out fishing.... Even the wife thought the fishing was great and as long as the storm didn't come any closer, we fished...

Plotman posted 07-26-2003 09:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Plotman  Send Email to Plotman     
I was a teenager out with my parents on their sailboat when we were caught in a thunderstorm and hit by lightning.

Everyone on the boat was fine - including me who was holding onto the stainless wheel, connected by stainless cables to the rudderpost where it was determined a major amount of the charge left the boat. I don't understand the physics, but there is a "cone of protection" on a sailboat with metal masts/rigging aslong as they are grounded.

The vhf was off at the time we were hit, but it was toasted anyway - the antenna took the main strike - it ended up about 2 feet shorter, and all the copper in the caox was vaporized.

The engine electronics were all shot - there was a halon fire system in the engine compartment that went off from the voltage spike, so first we had to vent the halon. After that we were able to start the engine (a diesel) by shorting across the starter solenoid with a screwdriver.

We also blew the hose off of a seacock - part of the bolt coming down one of the stays jumped to the water-filled hose as its path to ground and boiled the water in the hose which burst it. The bronze ball-valve in the 2" seacock was fused open - luckily we had a tapered wood plug of the appropriate size tied to the seacock that we could pound it - still kind of fun trying to cut/pull the ends of the blown hose off the end of the seacock while cold water was coming in. (bilge pump was dead too).

We didn't konow what else was wrong, so we hightailed it for the boatyeard and put he boat in the slings of the travellift.

We found out later that there were significant burns in the fiberglass that had to be ground out and repared.

So with that, I get the hell off the water when I see a thinderstorm that is going to hit me. Either that or run purpendicular to the line of advance and try to get away from it.

David

diamondjj posted 07-26-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for diamondjj    
There is a 'cone of protection' on a sailboat provided the mast and rigging are grounded to the keel via the chainplates or some very heavy wire going from the shrouds to the keel. In the whaler, if approaching weather looks bad, I head for home WOT. I have had my share of thunderstorms in the past while racing sailboats in the ocean and want no part of them.
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 07-26-2003 10:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Chesapeake Explorer  Send Email to The Chesapeake Explorer     
Thunderstorms are a part of the Chesapeake Bay. I have been caught in a few. On one occasion I did as you did get all rods down, antenna down and stayed low in the boat holding into the wind and rain..thats about all you can do if your stuck.Its rare to be struck but it can happen. To tell the truth I have considered going into the sea with my class 1 on tied to a 100ft rope to the boat if I get caught again in a real bad lighting storm.
Jay A posted 07-26-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Jay A    
Two years ago I was among about 200 boats anchored to watch the "Greasy Pole" contest here in Gloucester,Ma. A sudden thunderstorm rolled in. Talk about chaos! Everyone pulling up their anchor lines,boats bumping into each other. Boats going in different directions,it was mass confusion!
I anticipated the fast approaching storm and pulled anchor ahead of time and hovered to the side of the flotilla towards my home berth. Once in the inner harbor the max. speed is 5 mph. Most ignored it! A line of about 7 kayaks was crossing in front of a squadron of WOT vessels and one was hit! The boat kept on going! I pulled up to the paddler and got him in my boat,his kayak was cut in half just behind the cockpit! Luckily he was unhurt. But PISSED!
elaelap posted 07-26-2003 11:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Plotman/David,

I've done a little sailing myself over the past 45 years or so, and can tell from your story that your parents were/are the real thing. Details like the immediately available tapered wooden plug for the seacock, and the description of how you folks got the engine going add greatly to your tale, and demonstrate your parents' (and probably your) competence at sea.

I never worried too much about lightning on my sailboats, and, amazingly, never had any real close calls. But yesterday's little thrill on my Katama sure had me thinking, and wondering if there is any preparation or avoidance techniques I'm missing for dealing with this stuff in a small motorcraft, other than getting the hell out...

Tony

donel posted 07-27-2003 11:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for donel  Send Email to donel     
Interesting article in todays - Sunday 7/27 - St. Pete Times sports section under outdoors re: lightning strikes on boats.
Sorry, can't hyperlink - but is free @ sptimes.com
WhalerGoFar posted 07-27-2003 12:00 PM ET (US)     Profile for WhalerGoFar  Send Email to WhalerGoFar     
donelA little assist: http://trekflorida.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Outdoors.woa/wa/getStoryDetails?storyID=20032713341324

Good story and I learned something new...the 30/30 Rule.

Mike

Robob2003 posted 07-27-2003 01:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Robob2003  Send Email to Robob2003     
Donel,

Thanks for the heads up.

I learned something today reading about the 30-30 rule and it makes good sense.

I might have never seen it in the paper because we were out joy riding in the old Sakonnet this morning and I probably won't even look at the Times.

I have noticed that we often get bolts out of a clear sky long before the storm clouds arrive.

Bob on Tampa Bay

elaelap posted 07-27-2003 04:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for elaelap  Send Email to elaelap     
Donel,

Sorta wish I hadn't read that story, especially about the "30/30 Rule." At the height of the little storm I was in a couple of days ago, it was flash!/bang! with maybe a second or two between the two events. I've always felt that there was no immediate danger of a strike when there was more than five or ten seconds between the lightning and the thunder...guess I was very wrong, if that story is to be believed. Stay safe, folks.

Tony

knothead posted 07-28-2003 12:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for knothead  Send Email to knothead     
I ocean raced sailboats for 15+ years and also have had some close experiences with lightning. We were racing in the Neuse River when a particularily bad storm came up. Trying to gain a tactical advantage we left up the spinnaker and were making out like bandits on the rest of the fleet, only to be hit by a bolt of lightning. I had the spinnaker sheet in hand, saw a great light and got shocked, not badly, but shocked. All the instruments and radio were fried, the spinnaker blew out, and we ended up finishing fourth or fifth. All the metal in the boat was grounded to the keel which I suppose saved everybody and the boat from worse damage.

Since then I too have wondered what to do on an ungrounded boat. Sailing Hobie Cats and being caught in a thunderstorm, I've flipped them upside down and ridden out the storm, but a Boston Whaler is another story. Guess The Chesapeake Explorer's idea is best, but I can tell you for sure, the charge just might come down that 100' rope.

In many areas, late afternoon thunderstorms are a part of every marine forecast and are sometimes almost impossible to outrun or manuver around. Guess you just have to be lucky.

regards---knothead

Bigshot posted 07-28-2003 02:08 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
In Tampa Bay....the lightning capitol of the world....it is a daily occurence like mentioned above. We lower stuff and haul booty to closest shelter possible. Not much else you can do. Rarely do boats get struck, same reason as cars I believe but it can happen so be careful. That is why the driver felt nothing....negative ground.
Bigshot posted 07-28-2003 02:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bigshot  Send Email to Bigshot     
PS....out of the 70 people a year who get struck, like 86% are golfers....no BS.
andiamo posted 07-28-2003 08:01 PM ET (US)     Profile for andiamo  Send Email to andiamo     
I too have spent my share of time racing sailboats in thunderstorms. At the J24 World Championships in Kingston Ontario a line squal thunderstorm blew up. Many of the boats attached their spinnaker poles to the stays or pulpits and then dragged them in the water to provide extra grounding. Also on an aluminum race boat I once worked on we clipped steel cable to the toe rail and hung it over the side with zink on them for the electrolosis.

All of this lead me to wonder if one could either hang ones anchor chain over the steel on the consul and then over the rail and into the water to prive grounding or have 10 feet or so of stainless cable with a clip for the consul and rail made up with a weight on it to hang over the side to provide grounding when a storm came up. Maybe just a set of jumper cables would do.

Lagged posted 07-28-2003 09:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for Lagged  Send Email to Lagged     
Many people run a set of jumper cables from an outrigger to the water, but not too many 16'ers have them.
David T posted 07-28-2003 10:19 PM ET (US)     Profile for David T    
All I can say is that on my parent's boat, we had an aluminum mast bonded with #000 cable to the aluminum backbone that the external lead keel was bolted to. We thought we had a very solid path to ground.

when we got hot, the lighning found its own routes. Like through one of the hoses in the head, out the rudderpost and out through the fiberglass.

I think to be effective, you would need a bigger ground than the clamp of a pair of jumper cables in the water.

Maybe a 2x2 foot piece of sheet metal - remember the grounds for SSB radios on boats are many square feet of copper under water.

David

Eric posted 08-02-2003 02:29 PM ET (US)     Profile for Eric  Send Email to Eric     
Bigshot is on the mark when he says this is the lightning capitol of the world. We have more strikes here in the Tampa Bay area than anywhere else in the world. Three dead construction workers this week, in two seperate strikes.

Does anyone know anything about the static electricity diffusors that are rigged on mast tips on boats?

Barney posted 08-02-2003 06:23 PM ET (US)     Profile for Barney  Send Email to Barney     
Got caught in a good one today. Fifity mile round trip from ramp to Horn Island via most of the back bay. Soaking wet by the time we got to the Ocean Springs bridge and hid. The bridge was hit by lightning. Jim B.
The Chesapeake Explorer posted 08-02-2003 09:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for The Chesapeake Explorer  Send Email to The Chesapeake Explorer     
I am thinking about a rubber bungee cord all rubber 4ft.to go with that 100 ft rope and class 1 life kjacket to "get out of town" with in T-Storms on Ches-Bay! Thanks for the suggestion that the bolt can follow the line. I think it would go to ground as it hit the water. I posted that about getting off and I am serious. I have swam in the Chesbay Potomac in 3 foot seas next to my boat with a rope to it on several times when the nettles are not in!

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