Enigne longevity, actual hours before replacement?

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Author Topic:   Enigne longevity, actual hours before replacement?

flawton posted 09-02-2003 09:12 PM ET (US)
I had to defend my recent purchase of a two storke for my 81' Newport and the conversation eventually turned to engine longevity. Realistically how many hours, with proper care and manitenance, can I expect to get out of a 03' Yamaha 90, 2s?
Anyone have any real hourmeter numbers? Not just guesses but some real readings.

doobee posted 09-02-2003 09:24 PM ET (US)
For what it's worth, I know that the Mass Environmental Police change out their big Bombadier FICHTS every 1200 to 1500 hours.
Tom2697 posted 09-03-2003 09:59 AM ET (US)
I have many friends that are fishing guides. Most change out their engines between 1000 and 1500 hours (1 to 1 1/2 years) because these engines are run REALLY hard. They maintain the motors well but do not want to trust the motors after they reach that hour mark because it is their livelihood. I know people who have bought these used motors and they continue to run for years after the purchase. Total hours though, I have no idea...
For the average boater who puts on 100 hours a season, this means between 10 and 15 seasons until they reach that mark...
wspellenbe posted 09-03-2003 10:54 AM ET (US)
What about 4 strokes. My 130 Honda is a really a Honda Civic engine. I would think the 4s would be 1000s of Hours.
captbone posted 09-03-2003 11:51 AM ET (US)
Its the same with four strokes! If you take your civic motor and run it in second gear at 4500 rpm for 1000 hours, then that would be the end of that motor too. Marine engines really get beat up, offshore motors take the most. There are no shocks on a boat. I would trust a 1987 evinrude 225 over a new 225 fours stroke after they have both been over 1500 hours do to the fact that the older 2 stroke is simple and mostly mechanical. Think of it this way, "MOST" recreational diesel engines only get about 3000 hours before a rebuild.
Tom2697 posted 09-03-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
If you maintain the motor well, chances are that corrosion will be the factor that kills it. When I state "maintain the motor well", I am saying to clean off the block (under the cowling) after each use and spray it with a corrosion protectant, hose down all external parts and relube frequently. I could've rebuilt my Evinrude for much cheaper than I paid for the new motor. But, I knew from a visual inspection that I had about 1 more year of life left in the rest of the motor. I already rebuilt the heads and the trim/tilt unit when I decided to scrap the motor. The other components just got eaten up by the salt environment that I live in...
My father's old gas V-8 I/O lasted about 27 years and 3000+ hours without a rebuild. When we finally changed the motor, the internals were perfect (and withing tolerance!!!). It was all external parts that were near death.
Sal DiMercurio posted 09-03-2003 01:27 PM ET (US)
With proper maintenance using the correct fluids & not having run the engine in death at 99 & if it was propped correctly, you can expect every bit of 3,000 hours.
My neighbor had a pair of Yamahas on his 27' guide boat which he ran everyday.
He bought new engines because he couldn't believe they would run over 4,000 hours & thats how many hours the engines had when he sold them.
The guy that bought the used engines has run them both on his rig for 4 more years now & they run beautiful.
Compression is even & they just keep on rollin.
Theres no one that can say your engines will only last you X amount of hours, because everyone runs their engines differently, & some engines aren't set up right to beguin with, & they sure as hell aren't going to last anywhere near what an engine thats propped right & maintained correctly & not run atwot all the time.
My last engine a 91 Johnson one fifty [ keyboard wont type the number five ] had 3,370 hours on it when I got my new 200 hp.
That was 3 years ago & the guy that bought it has put another 900 plus hours on it [ over 4,200 hours & it still runs like a new engine ].
Keep in mind this engine was maintain maticulously & propped perfect, only ran Chevron fuel & Omc oil through her.
Sal
First Thought posted 09-03-2003 03:57 PM ET (US)
Sal hit it right on. The keys for engine life are engine maintenance and running in the cruising range not wide open.
When I was guiding I got a new rig, every 14-16 months. This had nothing to do with the number of hours of operation
but was part of the standard contract every boat/engine sponsor I ever had required, and I had all the engines and a lot of different boats. After all, they want people
to see their products in nice new shiny condition, not some
beat up old thing. We sold the last year model rig, paid team pricing on the new and made a nice little bonus profit.
All of those used boats/engines I sold were in excellent shape and I would have felt comfortable using any of them for several more seasons. My personal boat, a Montauk with 90 Yamaha has 2764.3 hours per the hour meter on it.
captbone posted 09-03-2003 04:20 PM ET (US)
I dont know if the question is how long will an engine last or how long is it before you start to second guess if it will start for the ride home. I have seen a 150 v6 Evinrude XP with almost 6000 hours on it. The only problem was it was question of what will go wrong next, you can replace almost all the parts but then you will have basicly rebuilt it and new. I am sure that there are a lot of motors with 2000+ hours on them. But how many people will trust the motor to take them offshore and back. Now I know someone will say that they feel that their 2000+ hour engine was as trust worthy as new, but for me it is not. And after 1500+ or 7 years, I start to think repower, does that mean that the engine is done? Not at all, I take the best care of my engines, but they do get used and things do wear out.
Jamie 20 outrage posted 09-03-2003 07:42 PM ET (US)
The number I hear before an engine has a major failure [piston, bearing, crank] is about 1500 hours. The cool thing is that the newer engines keep track of the hours in their memory, so we will hear real numbers, not what people believe to be correct.
Ed Z posted 09-06-2003 10:16 AM ET (US)

Got an 85hp Bearcat that ran for 34 years before I decided to rebuild it... It ran fine even up to that point, I just needed to open it up to verify it would still be reliable... Dick Fisher over built the heck out this thing and yet kept it down to 280 lbs...
An engine (2 or 4 stroke) will last as long as it was designed to... Any one of the manufactures could build a motor that would last a life time, but the price would be high... If the Bearcat 85 were to be available today it would not be competitive in price as compaired to other makes...
David Jenkins posted 09-06-2003 12:09 PM ET (US)
If you multiply the engine hours times 45, you will have the approximate number of miles that an automile engine would have with that number of hours on it. So a marine engine with 1500 hours on it would be about the same as a car engine that has 67,500 miles on it.
It is true that outboards are more apt to fail due to corrosion than are automobile engines, but that is usually more a factor of the age of the engine, not the hours. I would trust a 1999 engine with 3000 hours on it more than I would trust a 1981 engine with 500 hours on it.
Also, while it is true that outboards are run at a higher RPM than are automobile engines, they are desgined for this application, and not everyone runs them at 4500 rpm continuously (I know that I don't).
Outboards do not get as hot as automobile engines, and they are usually not run with dirty oil lubricating the pistons (unlike many car engines).
Good luck!
Jamie 20 outrage posted 09-06-2003 04:56 PM ET (US)
I disagree with your equating running an outboard to running a car engine at 45 mph. The car is probably in top gear and is cruising at a low rpm easily. I dont see that for most boats. Of course all of this is guess work depending on who is driving ewither one. Assuming, based on what I see, I would say on average it is more closely associated with running a car at about 70.
David Jenkins posted 09-06-2003 06:50 PM ET (US)
The 45 is an average of some time at red lights, some time at 20 mph, and some time at 70. A car with 67,500 miles on the odometer probably has about 1500 hours on its engine.
15ftlover posted 09-08-2003 01:32 PM ET (US)
Just a word on fuel choice for motor life. Brand gasoline is a bit misleading as most gasoline in the US is transported via a large SHARED pipeline system to regional pickup sites. Companies all add additives but the different blends are similar. When gasoline is "shipped" it may be brand X, Y, or Z that is actually coming out of the pipe as the only thing guaranteed is the octane rating. Plugs may used in the pipeline to prevent mixing between octanes. But when brand X is put in the pipe at 1 place, a different brand Y is probably what is delivered at point 2. Gas being pumped across country may take three days to arrive at place 2, so they don't 'wait around' for a particular brand to come out. It's hard to let go of brand loyalty but this is the situation with gas as I know it

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Author	Topic: Enigne longevity, actual hours before replacement?
flawton	posted 09-02-2003 09:12 PM ET (US) I had to defend my recent purchase of a two storke for my 81' Newport and the conversation eventually turned to engine longevity. Realistically how many hours, with proper care and manitenance, can I expect to get out of a 03' Yamaha 90, 2s? Anyone have any real hourmeter numbers? Not just guesses but some real readings.
doobee	posted 09-02-2003 09:24 PM ET (US) For what it's worth, I know that the Mass Environmental Police change out their big Bombadier FICHTS every 1200 to 1500 hours.
Tom2697	posted 09-03-2003 09:59 AM ET (US) I have many friends that are fishing guides. Most change out their engines between 1000 and 1500 hours (1 to 1 1/2 years) because these engines are run REALLY hard. They maintain the motors well but do not want to trust the motors after they reach that hour mark because it is their livelihood. I know people who have bought these used motors and they continue to run for years after the purchase. Total hours though, I have no idea... For the average boater who puts on 100 hours a season, this means between 10 and 15 seasons until they reach that mark...
wspellenbe	posted 09-03-2003 10:54 AM ET (US) What about 4 strokes. My 130 Honda is a really a Honda Civic engine. I would think the 4s would be 1000s of Hours.
captbone	posted 09-03-2003 11:51 AM ET (US) Its the same with four strokes! If you take your civic motor and run it in second gear at 4500 rpm for 1000 hours, then that would be the end of that motor too. Marine engines really get beat up, offshore motors take the most. There are no shocks on a boat. I would trust a 1987 evinrude 225 over a new 225 fours stroke after they have both been over 1500 hours do to the fact that the older 2 stroke is simple and mostly mechanical. Think of it this way, "MOST" recreational diesel engines only get about 3000 hours before a rebuild.
Tom2697	posted 09-03-2003 12:49 PM ET (US) If you maintain the motor well, chances are that corrosion will be the factor that kills it. When I state "maintain the motor well", I am saying to clean off the block (under the cowling) after each use and spray it with a corrosion protectant, hose down all external parts and relube frequently. I could've rebuilt my Evinrude for much cheaper than I paid for the new motor. But, I knew from a visual inspection that I had about 1 more year of life left in the rest of the motor. I already rebuilt the heads and the trim/tilt unit when I decided to scrap the motor. The other components just got eaten up by the salt environment that I live in... My father's old gas V-8 I/O lasted about 27 years and 3000+ hours without a rebuild. When we finally changed the motor, the internals were perfect (and withing tolerance!!!). It was all external parts that were near death.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 09-03-2003 01:27 PM ET (US) With proper maintenance using the correct fluids & not having run the engine in death at 99 & if it was propped correctly, you can expect every bit of 3,000 hours. My neighbor had a pair of Yamahas on his 27' guide boat which he ran everyday. He bought new engines because he couldn't believe they would run over 4,000 hours & thats how many hours the engines had when he sold them. The guy that bought the used engines has run them both on his rig for 4 more years now & they run beautiful. Compression is even & they just keep on rollin. Theres no one that can say your engines will only last you X amount of hours, because everyone runs their engines differently, & some engines aren't set up right to beguin with, & they sure as hell aren't going to last anywhere near what an engine thats propped right & maintained correctly & not run atwot all the time. My last engine a 91 Johnson one fifty [ keyboard wont type the number five ] had 3,370 hours on it when I got my new 200 hp. That was 3 years ago & the guy that bought it has put another 900 plus hours on it [ over 4,200 hours & it still runs like a new engine ]. Keep in mind this engine was maintain maticulously & propped perfect, only ran Chevron fuel & Omc oil through her. Sal
First Thought	posted 09-03-2003 03:57 PM ET (US) Sal hit it right on. The keys for engine life are engine maintenance and running in the cruising range not wide open. When I was guiding I got a new rig, every 14-16 months. This had nothing to do with the number of hours of operation but was part of the standard contract every boat/engine sponsor I ever had required, and I had all the engines and a lot of different boats. After all, they want people to see their products in nice new shiny condition, not some beat up old thing. We sold the last year model rig, paid team pricing on the new and made a nice little bonus profit. All of those used boats/engines I sold were in excellent shape and I would have felt comfortable using any of them for several more seasons. My personal boat, a Montauk with 90 Yamaha has 2764.3 hours per the hour meter on it.
captbone	posted 09-03-2003 04:20 PM ET (US) I dont know if the question is how long will an engine last or how long is it before you start to second guess if it will start for the ride home. I have seen a 150 v6 Evinrude XP with almost 6000 hours on it. The only problem was it was question of what will go wrong next, you can replace almost all the parts but then you will have basicly rebuilt it and new. I am sure that there are a lot of motors with 2000+ hours on them. But how many people will trust the motor to take them offshore and back. Now I know someone will say that they feel that their 2000+ hour engine was as trust worthy as new, but for me it is not. And after 1500+ or 7 years, I start to think repower, does that mean that the engine is done? Not at all, I take the best care of my engines, but they do get used and things do wear out.
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 09-03-2003 07:42 PM ET (US) The number I hear before an engine has a major failure [piston, bearing, crank] is about 1500 hours. The cool thing is that the newer engines keep track of the hours in their memory, so we will hear real numbers, not what people believe to be correct.
Ed Z	posted 09-06-2003 10:16 AM ET (US) Got an 85hp Bearcat that ran for 34 years before I decided to rebuild it... It ran fine even up to that point, I just needed to open it up to verify it would still be reliable... Dick Fisher over built the heck out this thing and yet kept it down to 280 lbs... An engine (2 or 4 stroke) will last as long as it was designed to... Any one of the manufactures could build a motor that would last a life time, but the price would be high... If the Bearcat 85 were to be available today it would not be competitive in price as compaired to other makes...
David Jenkins	posted 09-06-2003 12:09 PM ET (US) If you multiply the engine hours times 45, you will have the approximate number of miles that an automile engine would have with that number of hours on it. So a marine engine with 1500 hours on it would be about the same as a car engine that has 67,500 miles on it. It is true that outboards are more apt to fail due to corrosion than are automobile engines, but that is usually more a factor of the age of the engine, not the hours. I would trust a 1999 engine with 3000 hours on it more than I would trust a 1981 engine with 500 hours on it. Also, while it is true that outboards are run at a higher RPM than are automobile engines, they are desgined for this application, and not everyone runs them at 4500 rpm continuously (I know that I don't). Outboards do not get as hot as automobile engines, and they are usually not run with dirty oil lubricating the pistons (unlike many car engines). Good luck!
Jamie 20 outrage	posted 09-06-2003 04:56 PM ET (US) I disagree with your equating running an outboard to running a car engine at 45 mph. The car is probably in top gear and is cruising at a low rpm easily. I dont see that for most boats. Of course all of this is guess work depending on who is driving ewither one. Assuming, based on what I see, I would say on average it is more closely associated with running a car at about 70.
David Jenkins	posted 09-06-2003 06:50 PM ET (US) The 45 is an average of some time at red lights, some time at 20 mph, and some time at 70. A car with 67,500 miles on the odometer probably has about 1500 hours on its engine.
15ftlover	posted 09-08-2003 01:32 PM ET (US) Just a word on fuel choice for motor life. Brand gasoline is a bit misleading as most gasoline in the US is transported via a large SHARED pipeline system to regional pickup sites. Companies all add additives but the different blends are similar. When gasoline is "shipped" it may be brand X, Y, or Z that is actually coming out of the pipe as the only thing guaranteed is the octane rating. Plugs may used in the pipeline to prevent mixing between octanes. But when brand X is put in the pipe at 1 place, a different brand Y is probably what is delivered at point 2. Gas being pumped across country may take three days to arrive at place 2, so they don't 'wait around' for a particular brand to come out. It's hard to let go of brand loyalty but this is the situation with gas as I know it