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  Do you lower your VHF antenna during electrical storms?

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Author Topic:   Do you lower your VHF antenna during electrical storms?
GreatBayNH posted 03-30-2008 08:36 AM ET (US)   Profile for GreatBayNH   Send Email to GreatBayNH  
I know it's a little early to be thinking about electrical storms, at least here in the north east, but I had this question last year and forgot to post.

Last season I was caught in a sudden electrical storm right after launching the boat. My first instinct was to lower the VHF antenna that sits about 4' above my head. I did so and headed back to shore.

My question is two fold:

1) Was I being paranoid by lowering my VHF antenna or is it common practice?

2) How many CW members lower their VHF antenna when caught off guard by sudden electrical storms (assuming you can't find shelter)?

I did some searching on this site for similar topics. I couldn't find anything that answered my questions about common or best practices on VHF antenna lowering during electrical storms. I know it is most likely common sense but I'm curious as to other CW member's immediate actions concerning the lightning rod, that is a VHF antenna, during a sudden electrical storm.

-Seth

FRSam posted 03-30-2008 09:36 AM ET (US)     Profile for FRSam  Send Email to FRSam     
I sure would Seth...I'd also get the rods out of the rod holders. You know what they say the two most likely groups are fisherman and golfers.

Stay grounded....

Pete

Bella con23 posted 03-30-2008 09:59 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
Seth - Pete has the right idea. Maintain a low profile in thunderstorm. Drop the VHF antenna, fishing rods, nets, etc. The fishing rods may be manufactured with a graphite composite and have been known to injure fisherman in the right conditions.
Joe
fourdfish posted 03-30-2008 10:35 AM ET (US)     Profile for fourdfish  Send Email to fourdfish     
Seth- Had that experience several times. I did lower the antenna and ran to port as quick as I could! Have heard of boat strikes!
lakeman posted 03-30-2008 03:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for lakeman  Send Email to lakeman     
Another vote for putting the graphite rods on the floor. I have had several friends, report of getting static electric shocks off them when storms were close. Putting the antenna down is not a bad idea also.
Sonic posted 03-30-2008 05:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sonic  Send Email to Sonic     
A question to consider:

Once the VHF antenna is lowered, the helmsman, standing at the center console, is the tallest thing in the boat, and they are grounded (touching the metal steering wheel connected through metal cables to the metal engine that is in the water). Even sitting on the RPS on my Montauk, my head is still about even or a little above the console.

I would rather have the VHF antenna take a strike than my head.

GreatBayNH posted 03-30-2008 05:47 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
I'd agree if I had a metal plate in my head. I don't. The boat will always be the highest thing in the water. Taking the 8' "strike me here" sign out of the picture seems like a no brainer.
GreatBayNH posted 03-30-2008 05:52 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
But I see you point. The lightning rod on the barn roof theory. I'm not sure I'd want to attract the lightning by leaving the antenna up is all I'm saying. If lighning hits the antenna I would imagine I'm going to feel it, none the less, standing inches away from it.
jimh posted 03-30-2008 07:35 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Find a sailboat with a tall mast and get close to him.
Sonic posted 03-30-2008 07:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sonic  Send Email to Sonic     
GreatBay: I DO have a metal plate in my head, though it is small enough that I'm sure it would make no difference.

I don't know if a person would be as much of a target as an antenna, but it is something to consider, and hopefully someone with more electrical knowledge than I can provide an answer.

Liteamorn posted 03-30-2008 07:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for Liteamorn  Send Email to Liteamorn     
I was out with a friend one summer afternoon when a storm blew by just to the south of us and one went by to the north of us. We were anchored up at the time and all of a sudden I noticed out VHF antenna was sizzling. When we took it down the graphite rods started sizzling. A few boats over I saw another friend and his son looking up at there antenna also.
We quickly pulled anchor and headed to port. When we got to the port I talked to one of the guys in the marina and he told me we experienced something called Elmo's Fire and told me we stood a good chance for a lightning strike. He also told me that there have been occasions where a boats polarity had been reversed during this condition.
ConB posted 03-30-2008 07:56 PM ET (US)     Profile for ConB  Send Email to ConB     
When you get close to a sailboat with a tall mast like JimH suggests first verify that the sailboat has been bonded to ABYC standards.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/lightning.htm

Other wise it will be like my father used to say when we were sailing in lightning, "when your number is up, your number is up".

ConB

EIKNIB posted 03-30-2008 08:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for EIKNIB  Send Email to EIKNIB     
In Florida, we have thunder storms almost every afternoon, in the summer. I was caught in one once, a mean one too about 35 years ago. I was a newby, and thought they were like the storms up north. Thought I could drive my boat through it. Got washed up on a mud bank. When the storm left so did the wind driven water, and I was high and dry for 3 hours. You soon learn its best to go out early and be home before they come in about 4pm usually. or go out in the evening. Most of these storms can be seen a long distance off, and are fairly easy to avoid when coming in from offshore. If lightning hits anywhere in your small boat, it will get you too. Once when fishing near a low bridge about 5-8 miles away from a thunder storm, I heard a really loud crack of thunder and a blinding light at the same instant. Lightning had just hit and killed a women riding her bike over the bridge, 50 yards away. We were in sunlight and calm weather. its called a bolt from the blue. there is no way to protect yourself. A good friend`s son was killed in football practice 19 years ago. it had just started to drizzle,the storm wasn`t close yet, and the coach had just told them to get inside. This boy just decided to hit the blocking sled one more time, at the same instant the sled was hit by lightning. Almost was torn in half, never knew what hit him. Its real scary to be caught on a golf course during a thunder storm. Especially while walking, but a golf cart is no protection either. Golfers have been killed in carts. Best just to keep away from thunder storms. And then there are the thunder storms that produce tornados. One tore the roof off a house I was building when I was "safe" inside, back in `82.
Rich

Tampa Fl. Lighting capital of the world. more thunderstorms than anywhere else.

Bella con23 posted 03-30-2008 09:05 PM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
The VHF antenna IS capable of attracting a lightning strike, however it would most likely NOT be capable of safely dissipating the charge once it has attracted the lightning bolt. My guess is you as the pilot would be involved with that dissipation one way or another.

The two schools of thought by the experts is if your going to attract lightning, then you better have the best protection available in the form of electrical bonding and proper discharge devices into the water away from the craft.

The other is to avoid setting yourself up for a strike by keeping any current carrying objects as low to the water as possible, or as jimh suggests get your boat under or next to a structure that will shield you under the 45 degree "cone of protection".

The fact is the percentage of boats that become targets of lightning is very low.

I'm not an expert, but have done quite a bit of research on the subject throughout my life. Hope this helps.
Joe

Tohsgib posted 03-31-2008 12:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tohsgib  Send Email to Tohsgib     
Being that I live in the lightning capital of the USA I felt I would chime in. No I do NOT lower my VHF ant when it is storming. Main reason...I don't have one. Just FYI.
GreatBayNH posted 03-31-2008 12:16 PM ET (US)     Profile for GreatBayNH  Send Email to GreatBayNH     
You don't have one because you don't want to get hit or you just don't have one?
pglein posted 03-31-2008 01:26 PM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
The last electrical storm I saw was in Florida, and that was 5 years ago. The last electrical storm I saw HERE was in the early 90's... I want to say about 1991.

I don't worry about it one bit. The lowest bridge I ever go under has a clearance of about 153', so the antenna stays up all the time.

bluewaterpirate posted 03-31-2008 01:51 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
About four years ago in mid July my wife and I were enjoying a great day of fishing 15 miles south of Ocean Isle Beach, NC. The weather forecast for the area was for partly cloudy skies and no chance of rain or TS's. That should have been the first red flag.

About two that afternoon we started to hear the sound of static electricity on the radios. Fifteen minutes later there was a Marine Warning issued for the area we were in, followed by a call from a boater inshore of us saying the sky had turned a bitch black green color. Didn't take us long to ready the boat for a rapid transit back to Shallotte Inlet. We stored all our fishing rods under the gunnels lowered one of our antennas and battened down the hatches for the ride home.

As we passed the five mile range arc from the sea buoy the sky turned the color mentioned above. I went to grab the bimini frame and was met by a snap caused by a static electricity discharge. About two miles later just before all hell broke loose I looked at my wife and saw that her hair was standing on end. That's when I started praying for devine intervention. We carry personal watercraft eye goggles just in case we run into heavy rain so we won't lose our vision.

I was watching three boats running hard for the inlet one of which was to the left of our track and slightly ahead of us when my vision became impaired by a large flash of white/orange light followed by the loudest clap of thunder I've ever heard. Lighting had hit the sea bouy about 50 yards ahead of us. The air was literally sucked out of the atmosphere around us and the concussion from the sound created by the thunder knocked be back into the captains chair. It started to rain so hard that we literally couldn't see over the bow of our Ventura. The wind was blowing in excess of 50 miles a hour so the rain felt like it was removing the skin from our faces. I dropped the Whalers speed down to 5 mph and followed my existing GPS track back thru the inlet while my wife stayed on the handheld and watched behind us for overtaking boats.

We managed to make it to a friends dock tie up and run for cover. For a ten minute period lighting was popping around us at 20 - 30 second intervals. One of the boats I'd seen running the inlet actually lost his electrical system to a near by lighting strike. We we very fortunate that day .... what amazed us the most was the speed at which things happened. The next year when Garmin/XM released their weather partnership I ran to install on our boat.

Here is another story as told by a fellow Whaler owner. Happened last year in the Gulf of Mexico.

"If the Whaler contest wouldn't have ended already, I think I might have won it with what I put my 23 year old, 25 Outrage through.

Yesterday I took my future brother-in-laws fishing offshore in the Gulf of Mexico. I watched the weather and buoy forecast a few days ahead of time to see if it is going to be worthwhile. Mind you that the future in-laws that I am planning to take are 16 and 12, and have never fished deep sea. We had planned on going Monday, but the weatherman forecasted some thunderstorms in the morning and I decided that it would be better if we went out Tuesday. So Monday, I pretty much spend the day getting the boat ready so we can leave early Tuesday morning.

We wake up at 0500, get ready and head down to the stall to get the boat. Launch the boat and set off out of he Matagorda Harbor at 0630. We are heading out to the NOAA Weather Buoy that is station 60 statute miles out of the Matagorda Jetties. Anyways, the long ride makes the boys anxious to catch some fish. So we stop at a rig to try and catch some king mackrel, but the water is really off color due to all the heavy rain that we have seen in the previous weeks that has dumped into the Gulf. So we are back underway headed out to the buoy fishing weedlines and such working our way out. We finally hit a color change and the water went from a murky green color to a vibrant crystal clear blue that you only see in the movies. We finally make it to the buoy, tried to troll, but the seaweed was thick and scattered which ended up getting entangled in our lines. Although a 40 or 50lb. wahoo did follow and annihilate a Chaos lure that we offered. After that, we continued to fish and chum, trying to draw a strike but the fish thought otherwise. So then we are going to start fishing our way back in and hit a few wrecks. We left the buoy and started heading for a wreck that was in and east of the buoy about 10 miles. As we are about halfway there there is a storm that is brewing to the west of us. Back home is a North Westerly compass heading. We started to go back home instead of fishing anymore due to the inclimate weather. I began to see a few lightning strikes so instead of heading to Matagorda, I started to head to Sargent which is 30 miles up the coast. After a few minutes I decided that Sargent wasn't going to be as good of idea as I thought, so I pointed the boat towards Freeport, which is another 30 miles up the coast. Now the storm is as far as I can see west, north, and south. I stopped the boat, grabbed life vests for the boys and my self, got us all strapped in and gave them strict orders for them not to leave the boat if something happens. By now, the older one is as quiet as a mouse and the younger is scared and crying a bit. About that time, I could feel the first gales of what was to come. I started heading back towards Matagorda, then it hit. gale force winds, driving rain, and waves that were high and stacked together like cardboard. The only thing that I could do, but point the bow of the boat into the 12' waves. Every raindrop stung from be propelled by the 50 m.p.h. winds. As I got to the top of a wave I had to hammmer the throttles so I wouldn't nose dive into the next wave and fill the boat with water. At this moment all I could do was pray and keep going. I prayed to the Good Lord so that I could get those boys home safe. I'm sure that God got tired of listening to me. The first wave of storms, 12' seas, and pounding rain lasted for 90 minutes. We caught a little break from the rain, but the seas were still rolling, though not as high because the wind had layed quite a bit. After about a five mile run the second wave of storms set in and it was just as bad as the first. Only this time the waves were coming at me from the north, so I could point my boat towards HOME!!! This lasted much longer than the first round and the swells were coming from the north and the west. After 2 more hours of fighting that weather system we seemed to be in the clear. The sky was still a little cloudy, but for the most part clear. I began to assess the damage that was done and realized how LUCKY we are to be alive. My bow rail has come loose and was plopping around. I had a casting platform that was screwed into the deck portion of the bow. All 12 screws were torn out and the platform is resting halfway in my fish box. My console is totally busted loose and the only thing holding it on is the T-top. The T-top has busted some welds and 2 legs that were screwed into the deck have stripped the screw holes out and are loose. The forward deck is totally loose and all the screw holes are stripped from the weight of the console and T-top getting jammed around. I lost a speaker that was strapped on the t-top. I had to rip it from the wires so that it wouldn't hit me head during round 1 of this. The only thing that is still attached good is the leaning post. I feel lucky to be alive today, but more importantly I got the boys back in safe. I feel that Boston Whaler is good part of that reason I am here today. I'm also sure the 3 and half hours of praying had alot to do with it too."

Jesse Deshotels

Tohsgib posted 03-31-2008 01:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for Tohsgib  Send Email to Tohsgib     
No I just don't have one or a VHF. I have a compass and a cellphone but I don't go offshore. I also have a handheld VHF and GPS but I rarely take them with me. Most down here don't lower their ants during storms. We have nasty T-Storms EVERYDAY in the summer about 3pm so it is a mute point. Very few people get struck by lightening down here that are not golfers. I only heard of a few cases with boaters over the last decade. Being the ants are fiberglass, I would be worried about outriggers or light masts more than ants. Gets a little stressfull holding that metal steering wheel when lightning is crashing all around you.
bluewaterpirate posted 03-31-2008 02:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for bluewaterpirate  Send Email to bluewaterpirate     
Here's a good link.

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000001-d000100/d000007/d000007.html

bigjohn1 posted 03-31-2008 03:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
One thing you must remember while navigating on a 17' boat. It makes no real difference whether the antenna is up or down. When 30,000 amps of energy enters that antenna, where do you think its going to go? Its going to arc and side flash all over the boat so you are no safer (or in more danger) by having the antenna up or down. You are only "safe" (and that is a relative word) if all the metal on your boat is bonded together and the boat itself is grounded to the water via an air terminal touching the water viat a grounding plate. Even when all these precautions are taken, a direct lightning strike will "blow" chunks out of the boat as the strike makes contact.
Brian7son posted 03-31-2008 03:59 PM ET (US)     Profile for Brian7son  Send Email to Brian7son     
I too live in Florida. During the summer months, you can almost set your watch for the t-storms. Every day, it's hot as hell, then around 2:30 or 3pm, the t-storms roll in, it rains for about an hour or so, then it cools off. If I plan a fishing trip, I go early so that I can be back inside or near an inlet around 2pm.

The storms roll in very fast and they are difficult to outrun. I do drop my antena and outriggers and haul a$$.
I have been caught a few times in very nasty lightning storms with heavy rains and strong gusting winds. This has all resulted in one very careful captain. I watch the weather like a hawk. If I see those anvil clouds forming, the motors are fired up and we're heading to a safe port.

What amazes me is the amount of people that will go out when it is obviously on the verge of getting real nasty, oblivious to the fact that the thunderstorm is in sight and coming. I just look at them and scratch my head, Darwinism I guess.

fishgutz posted 03-31-2008 04:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for fishgutz  Send Email to fishgutz     
"when your number is up, your number is up".
Lightning strike anywhere it wants. Sounds like it has a brain. It hits the middle of trees, rarely the very top. I've seen fences 5 feet high get hit within 2 inches of other, much higher metal structures. Antenna wires hit but not the antenna. Go figure.

I'd say keep moving. It's harder to hit a moving target.

mateobosch posted 03-31-2008 11:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for mateobosch  Send Email to mateobosch     
I went on a fishing trip to Canada with a few buddies back in 98 and clearly remember an electrical storm that we were caught in. A storm caught us in the middle of a lake and lightning was hitting everywhere. We had a small aluminum boat with a 2 HP motor that maxed out at about 5 MPH.

Long story short, my friend Nate had really long hair - down to his shoulders or more. His hair was standing straight up to the sky. Craziest thing I have ever experienced. Apparently that meant that we were in the direct path of lightning. With the boat maxed out and the oars paddling, we got to shore and got as low as we could until the storm passed.

I will never forget that day.

Sal DiMercurio posted 03-31-2008 11:22 PM ET (US)     Profile for Sal DiMercurio  Send Email to Sal DiMercurio     
I'm gonna tell you a quick story about lightning.
In the late 70s I was commercial fishing the Bering Sea.
There were maybe 100 boats in a small area, all with their gear in the water.
All the boats have "minimum" of 4 - 5 antennas, between Loran C, VHF, [ plus 1 back up vhf antenna ] Radar, & single side band.
The weather was calm, kinda scary calm......"before the storm".
Than the sky turn almost black with the ugliest clouds I've ever seen, but very little wind,.....[ yet ].
Soon lighting started hitting all around us & all the other boats.
There must have been at least 100 stikes within this 1 mile area, sometimes multiple strikes at the same time.
They would hit the water sometimes just 50 yards from us & cracking as they struck.
This went on for about 30 minutes, non-stop, yet not one boat was hit.
The boats were all 2" thick wood planking, & all had at least 1 iron engine, & all the antennas.
Oh, by the way, within the hour, we had 60 mph winds, with sleet, & snow, & we took a beating, as we were 15 miles out when it hit.
I was on a plane [ 737 ] on my way from Anchorage, to King Salmon Alaska, when it was hit by lightning, like to scare the crap out of everyone on board, but little damage to the plane......knocked out the radios.
Sal
Dave Thomas posted 04-01-2008 10:02 AM ET (US)     Profile for Dave Thomas  Send Email to Dave Thomas     
Having crewed on a thistle class sailboat that was struck by lightning I can say it wasn't a whole lot of fun. One minute we're sailing along then a really bright light and down came the mast, sails and rigging right over the side. The bolt came down the port stay to the chain plate and into the water.The jumper stays were melted and the molten stainless burned a number of holes in the dacron sails. The head of the wooden mast looked as if someone shoved it into a shreader and then pulled it back out. None of the three on board got hurt.A couple of nearby boats saw the strike and were surprised the hull was little damaged.The skipper was quick to replace the mast,rigging and sails and in afew weeks we were back out there.
Tohsgib posted 04-01-2008 10:06 AM ET (US)     Profile for Tohsgib  Send Email to Tohsgib     
My sisters sailboat was hit at the dock. We found the burnt windvane thingie lying about 20 feet from the boat that used to be on top the mast...no damge otherwise. My friend's Suburban was hit going over the Skyway bridge. Blew a small hole in his roof and burned out EVERY electrical thing in the truck...it was declared totaled.
pglein posted 04-03-2008 11:28 AM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
Most any experienced sailor can tell you that the difference between a devastating impact that shreds the rigging and sinks the boat, and an startling incident that provides fodder for stories over your post-race beer at the clubhouse is proper grounding. Just make sure everything's grounded and you'll be fine. It's just like the electrical system on a home or building; if it's grounded, lighting will do little more than leave a black burn mark where it hits.
bigjohn1 posted 04-04-2008 01:30 PM ET (US)     Profile for bigjohn1  Send Email to bigjohn1     
pglein: Can we define "grounded" in the context of a small boat?
contender posted 04-05-2008 08:09 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
I think it's the luck of the draw, Like EIKNIB I'm in south fla. and get plenty of thunder storms. But like he stated I've seen the lighting strike with no storm or the storm is so far away you would not think you are in danger. I have been caught out in such bad storms (Lightning all around) I have gotten in the water next to the boat and waited for it to end. At least in south fla. the water is warm. But I also think if lightning strikes your boat antenna you are probably bacon too.
swist posted 04-06-2008 07:45 AM ET (US)     Profile for swist  Send Email to swist     
"My friend's Suburban was hit going over the Skyway bridge. Blew a small hole in his roof and burned out EVERY electrical thing in the truck."

I thought being in a car was relatively safe in a thunderstorm. What happened here?

Bella con23 posted 04-06-2008 09:09 AM ET (US)     Profile for Bella con23  Send Email to Bella con23     
It is safer to be in a in a motor vehicle during a lightning storm because the lightning is directed around the occupants and down to the ground though the wheels (or the opposite direction depending on the polarity.)

The truck or car might sustain electronic damage due to the electromagnetic force behind the lightning charge. This force is capable of inducing stray electrical currents on any metal object within a distance from the discharge.

Tohsgib didn't say his friend was injured, rather the truck was fried. Hope that helps.
Joe

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