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Author Topic:   Inboard motor on a Revenge

ButchB posted 08-17-2008 11:33 AM ET (US)
Has anyone every heard of a 1980 22' Revenge with an INBOARD motor?
If so, what were they commonly powered with?
What types of problems should one check for before considering this boat (aside from all of the usual things) that would be inherent to an inboard system?
Thanks.
elaelap posted 08-17-2008 12:07 PM ET (US)
A very cool idea, BB, and something I'd seriously consider if I weren't all thumbs when it comes to things mechanical. How about this: Pick up a decent, low hours Perkins 108 diesel (about 35 horsepower, and thousands of them around since they were perhaps the most common cruising sailboat auxiliary for almost two decades) for a couple of thousand bucks and turn that Revenge into a displacement-hulled cruiser? Better yet, if you wanted to spend a couple (!) of dollars, how about a new Perkins M92B, which develops 86 hp at 2400 rpm--too much power for me on my fantasy displacement Revenge, but still... Or, yummy, a sweet up-to-date Yanmar 3YM30, 29 solid, torguey diesel horses in the mid-2000 rpm range, and another very common sailboat auxiliary.
I can't believe--and I've posted about this for six years at this site--that BW hasn't produced a nice little displacement hull diesel cruiser. There's gotta be a market, especially with fuel prices the way they are now. I wonder if any of the skilled mechanics at this forum have any opinions about this.
Tony
Kingsteven18 posted 08-17-2008 01:18 PM ET (US)
A Yanmar diesel outboard would do the trick.
Sheila posted 08-17-2008 01:37 PM ET (US)
Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I read the initial inquiry to be regarding a boat the poster is considering buying rather than a conversion he's contemplating.
I looked at a Revenge with inboard/outboard power before I bought my outboard-powered Revenge, but I'm not familiar with any straight inboard models.
I'm hardly the resident expert, though.
seabob4 posted 08-17-2008 01:54 PM ET (US)
Your biggest issue would be converting the hull to accept an inboard. Doable, but a lot of glasswork.
1) Engine beds would have to be built, and a means to fasten them would have to be devised. Whaler's don't have stringers, per se, so some type of stringer system would have to be fabricated to accept the beds.
2) A "flat" would have to be fashioned on the keel to accept the stuffing box. A "flat" would also have to be fashioned aft on the keel to accept a rudder port. A rudder board might be necessary to support the top portion of the rudder post due to lateral stresses placed on the post when turning at a "higher" rate of speed.
3) The angle of the propshaft coupling and transmission output flange has to be considered. The smaller the angle, the lower the motor sits in the boat, but prop clearance must be considered as one goes to a shallower angle.
4) Fore and aft location of the motor should be considered, as, most likely, an engine box would be built that performs double duty as a leaning post/tackle center.
5) The ancillary equipment that goes along with a diesel inboard, i.e. Main intake t/hull, shutoff valve, intake strainer, fuel/water separator, fuel feed and return lines, all must be installed such that access is easy and relatively unencumbered. The fuel tank must have barbs for both feed and return. Room must be dedicated to this equipment, as well as the motor and access to the stuffing box.
So, all in all, a very adventuresome project, should you still want to do it. As far as motors, Yanmar, IMHO, makes some of the best small (and for that matter, large) diesels going. Perkins and Lister are also excellent motors. All would give decades of service with proper maintenance. Speaking of maintenance, should you still want to do this, an oil exchange system is an excellent idea.
Hope this gives you a little more insight to the "project", hope it hasn't soured you on the idea. I learned the inboard trade while at Stamas Yacht. They offer an inboard version of all the boats they sell, from 25' to 34'. The 37 is strictly inboard. A good place to try an glean some "How they do it" information is to research Shamrock boats. I know a Supervisor there, and they do nothing but inboards. An excellent boat as well.
seabob4 posted 08-17-2008 01:59 PM ET (US)
Butch,
I think Sheila might have hit the nail on the head. If there is a boat out there that someone has done the conversion on, then use the list I provided as sort of a guide to what to look for. Accessability is a must. And remember, the rudder has it's own stuffing box, albeit smaller, usually uses 1/4" packing. On a small diesel, the propshaft stuffing box may use 1/4" as well, depends on the propshaft diameter.
ButchB posted 08-17-2008 02:02 PM ET (US)
Just looked at the boat. The poor fellow is not very bright. It is an inboard/outboard. The outdrive is a Merc 470, probably original. I do not know the engine make/size. He was not there, I got all my info by phone.
It is solid, deck and hull, old bottom paint that did not hide anything. Some very small gelcoat repairs that were solid around them. Double axel Pacific trailer, surge brake, new Goodyear Marathons. He somewhat sloppily varnished the teak. Engine compartment was in decent condition, dual batteries with switch. Older GPS and fish finder, newer DCS ICom VHF, shakespeare 8 ft antennae, a couple of the Beckson plates were dinged up. Console areas clean, cabin very clean, original cushions, replaced headliner. Looks all original. Solid around the outdrive, Lenco trim tabs, teak swim platform, Kodiak 22 gal. bait tank. Original thru hulls replaced with plastic ones.
What I would do- have the engine checked out. Gut ALL wiring and rewire it front to back. Clean up the sloppy varnish job he did on the teak. Scrub the hell out of it. Clean up the engine compartment and re-route a few things.
The price is $11K, which seems VERY low, given the condition. He claims to have put $5K in to motor works a few years ago. He is the 2nd owner, had it for 8 years.
Thoughts????
Sheila posted 08-17-2008 02:19 PM ET (US)
Butch,
Please review this old thread of mine when I was looking at an older I/O Revenge.
http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/008573.html
seabob4 posted 08-17-2008 02:51 PM ET (US)
Well, should ANYBODY ever want to convert a Whaler to straight inboard, some things to ponder...
placerville posted 08-17-2008 04:54 PM ET (US)
Butch B,
Are you sure it's a 1980 22' Revenge? I know the 1970s banana hulled Revenges often had inboard/outboards. I didn't know the newer style Revenges had an IO/O option.
We had a 1978 Revenge that had been converted from I/O to outboard. If it is a post banana hull, that does sound like a decent price.
Matt
Casco Bay Outrage posted 08-17-2008 06:12 PM ET (US)
There are several whaler models that came with an I/O.
In reviewing the reference section; specifications, I see several models including:
22-OUTRAGE IO c. 1980-1988
REVENGE 25 W-A I/O c. 1986
OUTRAGE 25 Cuddy I/O c. 1986
TEMPTATION 2200 IO c 1986-89
cf: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/specifications.html
One of my favorites is the Revenge 25 Cuddy I/O
http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage17.html
David Pendleton posted 08-17-2008 08:06 PM ET (US)
The 230 Conquest also came equipped with a Mercruiser I/O sterndrive.
ButchB posted 08-17-2008 08:47 PM ET (US)
Sheila-
Thanks for the link to your old thread. I think it was pretty telling for me, I am going to pass on this one. I was not certain I was ready to give up my quest for an Outrage 18-20. I like access to the forward deck. Now, if an Outrage cuddy came up, that might be a different story.
Thanks to all who posted.
Butch
Sheila posted 08-17-2008 09:47 PM ET (US)
Butch, you're welcome. I've loved my Revenge 25 walkaround precisely for the easy access to the bow.
SeaBob, your contribution will surely be helpful to anybody contemplating that conversion. Kind of you to take the time to post it.
Matt, the Revenge I/O I looked at was post-banana.
RM NY posted 08-18-2008 07:57 PM ET (US)
I have a customer who has a 25 with a volvo diesel I/O, did not know they made 22s with IOs

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Author	Topic: Inboard motor on a Revenge
ButchB	posted 08-17-2008 11:33 AM ET (US) Has anyone every heard of a 1980 22' Revenge with an INBOARD motor? If so, what were they commonly powered with? What types of problems should one check for before considering this boat (aside from all of the usual things) that would be inherent to an inboard system? Thanks.
elaelap	posted 08-17-2008 12:07 PM ET (US) A very cool idea, BB, and something I'd seriously consider if I weren't all thumbs when it comes to things mechanical. How about this: Pick up a decent, low hours Perkins 108 diesel (about 35 horsepower, and thousands of them around since they were perhaps the most common cruising sailboat auxiliary for almost two decades) for a couple of thousand bucks and turn that Revenge into a displacement-hulled cruiser? Better yet, if you wanted to spend a couple (!) of dollars, how about a new Perkins M92B, which develops 86 hp at 2400 rpm--too much power for me on my fantasy displacement Revenge, but still... Or, yummy, a sweet up-to-date Yanmar 3YM30, 29 solid, torguey diesel horses in the mid-2000 rpm range, and another very common sailboat auxiliary. I can't believe--and I've posted about this for six years at this site--that BW hasn't produced a nice little displacement hull diesel cruiser. There's gotta be a market, especially with fuel prices the way they are now. I wonder if any of the skilled mechanics at this forum have any opinions about this. Tony
Kingsteven18	posted 08-17-2008 01:18 PM ET (US) A Yanmar diesel outboard would do the trick.
Sheila	posted 08-17-2008 01:37 PM ET (US) Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I read the initial inquiry to be regarding a boat the poster is considering buying rather than a conversion he's contemplating. I looked at a Revenge with inboard/outboard power before I bought my outboard-powered Revenge, but I'm not familiar with any straight inboard models. I'm hardly the resident expert, though.
seabob4	posted 08-17-2008 01:54 PM ET (US) Your biggest issue would be converting the hull to accept an inboard. Doable, but a lot of glasswork. 1) Engine beds would have to be built, and a means to fasten them would have to be devised. Whaler's don't have stringers, per se, so some type of stringer system would have to be fabricated to accept the beds. 2) A "flat" would have to be fashioned on the keel to accept the stuffing box. A "flat" would also have to be fashioned aft on the keel to accept a rudder port. A rudder board might be necessary to support the top portion of the rudder post due to lateral stresses placed on the post when turning at a "higher" rate of speed. 3) The angle of the propshaft coupling and transmission output flange has to be considered. The smaller the angle, the lower the motor sits in the boat, but prop clearance must be considered as one goes to a shallower angle. 4) Fore and aft location of the motor should be considered, as, most likely, an engine box would be built that performs double duty as a leaning post/tackle center. 5) The ancillary equipment that goes along with a diesel inboard, i.e. Main intake t/hull, shutoff valve, intake strainer, fuel/water separator, fuel feed and return lines, all must be installed such that access is easy and relatively unencumbered. The fuel tank must have barbs for both feed and return. Room must be dedicated to this equipment, as well as the motor and access to the stuffing box. So, all in all, a very adventuresome project, should you still want to do it. As far as motors, Yanmar, IMHO, makes some of the best small (and for that matter, large) diesels going. Perkins and Lister are also excellent motors. All would give decades of service with proper maintenance. Speaking of maintenance, should you still want to do this, an oil exchange system is an excellent idea. Hope this gives you a little more insight to the "project", hope it hasn't soured you on the idea. I learned the inboard trade while at Stamas Yacht. They offer an inboard version of all the boats they sell, from 25' to 34'. The 37 is strictly inboard. A good place to try an glean some "How they do it" information is to research Shamrock boats. I know a Supervisor there, and they do nothing but inboards. An excellent boat as well.
seabob4	posted 08-17-2008 01:59 PM ET (US) Butch, I think Sheila might have hit the nail on the head. If there is a boat out there that someone has done the conversion on, then use the list I provided as sort of a guide to what to look for. Accessability is a must. And remember, the rudder has it's own stuffing box, albeit smaller, usually uses 1/4" packing. On a small diesel, the propshaft stuffing box may use 1/4" as well, depends on the propshaft diameter.
ButchB	posted 08-17-2008 02:02 PM ET (US) Just looked at the boat. The poor fellow is not very bright. It is an inboard/outboard. The outdrive is a Merc 470, probably original. I do not know the engine make/size. He was not there, I got all my info by phone. It is solid, deck and hull, old bottom paint that did not hide anything. Some very small gelcoat repairs that were solid around them. Double axel Pacific trailer, surge brake, new Goodyear Marathons. He somewhat sloppily varnished the teak. Engine compartment was in decent condition, dual batteries with switch. Older GPS and fish finder, newer DCS ICom VHF, shakespeare 8 ft antennae, a couple of the Beckson plates were dinged up. Console areas clean, cabin very clean, original cushions, replaced headliner. Looks all original. Solid around the outdrive, Lenco trim tabs, teak swim platform, Kodiak 22 gal. bait tank. Original thru hulls replaced with plastic ones. What I would do- have the engine checked out. Gut ALL wiring and rewire it front to back. Clean up the sloppy varnish job he did on the teak. Scrub the hell out of it. Clean up the engine compartment and re-route a few things. The price is $11K, which seems VERY low, given the condition. He claims to have put $5K in to motor works a few years ago. He is the 2nd owner, had it for 8 years. Thoughts????
Sheila	posted 08-17-2008 02:19 PM ET (US) Butch, Please review this old thread of mine when I was looking at an older I/O Revenge. http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/008573.html
seabob4	posted 08-17-2008 02:51 PM ET (US) Well, should ANYBODY ever want to convert a Whaler to straight inboard, some things to ponder...
placerville	posted 08-17-2008 04:54 PM ET (US) Butch B, Are you sure it's a 1980 22' Revenge? I know the 1970s banana hulled Revenges often had inboard/outboards. I didn't know the newer style Revenges had an IO/O option. We had a 1978 Revenge that had been converted from I/O to outboard. If it is a post banana hull, that does sound like a decent price. Matt
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 08-17-2008 06:12 PM ET (US) There are several whaler models that came with an I/O. In reviewing the reference section; specifications, I see several models including: 22-OUTRAGE IO c. 1980-1988 REVENGE 25 W-A I/O c. 1986 OUTRAGE 25 Cuddy I/O c. 1986 TEMPTATION 2200 IO c 1986-89 cf: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/specifications.html One of my favorites is the Revenge 25 Cuddy I/O http://continuouswave.com/whaler/cetacea/cetaceaPage17.html
David Pendleton	posted 08-17-2008 08:06 PM ET (US) The 230 Conquest also came equipped with a Mercruiser I/O sterndrive.
ButchB	posted 08-17-2008 08:47 PM ET (US) Sheila- Thanks for the link to your old thread. I think it was pretty telling for me, I am going to pass on this one. I was not certain I was ready to give up my quest for an Outrage 18-20. I like access to the forward deck. Now, if an Outrage cuddy came up, that might be a different story. Thanks to all who posted. Butch
Sheila	posted 08-17-2008 09:47 PM ET (US) Butch, you're welcome. I've loved my Revenge 25 walkaround precisely for the easy access to the bow. SeaBob, your contribution will surely be helpful to anybody contemplating that conversion. Kind of you to take the time to post it. Matt, the Revenge I/O I looked at was post-banana.
RM NY	posted 08-18-2008 07:57 PM ET (US) I have a customer who has a 25 with a volvo diesel I/O, did not know they made 22s with IOs