Should Engine Be Replace Due To Water In Fuel

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Author Topic:   Should Engine Be Replace Due To Water In Fuel

whalester posted 08-27-2008 04:56 PM ET (US)
I have a 1992 Boston Whaler MONTAUK SE with a 90-HP Yamaha. I had the gas tank, hoses, and carburetor rebuild last year after I was told that the ethanol in our fuel was eating away at them and was the cause of my problem in starting the engine. After those repairs the 90-HP Yamaha ran OK--but nowhere near the power I used to have. The boat speed was down to 30-nautical miles per hour compared to 45-nautical miles per hour before. It ran OK that was until last week, when I was given a diagnosis of water in the fuel tanks. I had the Yahama 90-HP motor serviced. It ran OK for a week and now [something, possibly water in the fuel, is] occuring again! As the current engine is 16-years-old, should I just replace the engine with a new 90-HP two-cycle or a 90-HP E-TEC? Or, are the new engines equally plagued with ethanol and water problems?
Casco Bay Outrage posted 08-27-2008 05:25 PM ET (US)
Blended fuel with ethanol has a short shelf life if untreated. When there is water in the tank, the fuel will absorb some but will go through phase separation.
Do a search (under new topic) on ethanol or phase separation to learn more.
Ethanol is a corrosive. The first tank or two of blended fuel with scour your tank of any dirt, debris etc. It will also eat at old fuel lines. Check all your lines (including inside the engine) to make sure they are alcohol resistant. Your carbs may need another cleaning.
Replacing your motor will not prevent phase separation. Treating your fuel and keeping water/condensation out of the fuel mitigates all outboard motor owner's ethanol blended fuel problems.
If you don't have a water separator installed, this is the time to do it.
whalester posted 08-27-2008 05:31 PM ET (US)
Thank you for your thoughtful and timely response. Very informative!
dino54904 posted 08-28-2008 12:46 PM ET (US)
Suggest installing a Racor filter which not only filters out particles but takes water out of the fuel stream. The clear bowl on the bottom of the filter allows you to monitor what's being taken out of your fuel before it gets to the engine and lets you know what's in your fuel and tank. Good insurance.
Buckda posted 08-28-2008 01:08 PM ET (US)
If you have a MOntauk, you have above-deck (portable) tanks - empty the tank and leave the cap open...let the whole tank dry out. Then put fresh, dry gas in the tank, and treat it with a stabilizer. I recommend keeping the tank at a level where you are regularly using most of the fuel for nearshore day trips - this way, you're keeping the freshest gas in the tank that you can.
I also empty my auxilliary tanks after trips - I burn the fuel in the tow vehicle. That way, I have "fresh" gas in the boat.
The E-Tec or any other motor has no influence on what is in the fuel tank of your boat. All currently marketed outboard motors react the same when water is introduced to the combustion chamber, regardless of their technology. It is important to find the source of water in your fuel and address it.
The Racor filter is primo - but you can get similar results from a standard water separating fuel filter - but the bigger point is that unless you rarely use the boat, you should not need such a filter when using portable tanks...unless the fuel dock is selling seriously contaminated fuel.
towboater posted 08-28-2008 01:08 PM ET (US)
Beware. Racor filters are very efficient, in fact, sometimes so efficient that they will also filter out additives that absorb water and clog quickly.
Carry a spare filter and wrench.

mk
whalester posted 08-28-2008 08:25 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys,
The advise was great!Had a friend come over who knows his way around outboards,and the first thing he did was pull the fuel line to the engine along with the coupler,he then took a empty plastic soda bottle and bulbed the bottle quarter full with fuel,let it sit for 5 mins. and sure enough the water settled to the bottom of the bottle and was very visible! He then bleed the carbs and voila ignition!!! He advised to add stabil and a can of dry gas to each tank and my baby is purring!He also will install a racor for me in the spring.Muchas Gracias mi hermanos!!!
jimh posted 08-28-2008 09:12 PM ET (US)
Engines do not attract water in the gas tank. There are only three ways you get water in the gas tank:
--you pump in the water with the fuel you buy;
--you condense the water out of the air from diurnal temperature variations;
--water leaks into the tank.
The most likely source is from the fuel you buy. The amount of water that can condense out of the air above a tank is generally insignificant. Leaks in a tank are as likely to let gasoline out as they are to let water in, so a leaking tank tends to announce itself.
Tohsgib posted 08-28-2008 09:19 PM ET (US)
Keep the engine and keep the water out of it...plain and simple no matter wha year or model you own. Same goes for cars, lawnmowers, bikes, etc.
Hal Watkins posted 08-29-2008 08:30 AM ET (US)
I have been using 10% Ethanol since 1993 in lawnmowers, boats vehicles. Not a single bad experience. I do store inside and have good gas caps. Sometimes I "stabil" sometimes I don't, never had a problem, evn on spring strat ups. Midwest mechanics don't make any big deal about it. I think many folks have been taken advantage of because its an easy way for a mechanic to "dupe" someone who wants to believe that ethanol is the culprit. Jusy my opinion. Hal of Waseca, MN
Buckda posted 08-29-2008 09:13 AM ET (US)
Ditto Hal.
Whalester - glad you got that fixed without having to buy a new motor!
Remember to tighten your vent caps on your tank when the boat's not in use, and don't spray the tank directly with a water hose when washing the boat to avoid "water injection" from the tank.
Visit another gasoline reseller for awhile - the one you regularly visit may have sold you some bad gas.
Agree with your friend - use StaBil or another additive to help that ethanol blend stay blended.
Congrats on the easy fix.
Dave
Plotman posted 08-29-2008 09:45 AM ET (US)
I echo what Hal says.
My 1991 Yamahas have never had a problem digesting 10% ethanol fuel. They were built with alcohol resistant hoses and carb parts.
I think a lot of east cost mechanics are using ethanol as an excuse to charge folks for a lot of unnecessary work.
The fact is that our outboards are no different than yours.
pglein posted 08-29-2008 02:05 PM ET (US)
Yeah, I have chronic problems with water in my tanks on my 13'. They fill with water whenever it rains, as it comes in through the cap vents. I try to remember to close them, but I often forget. It seems as though over the last year and a half or so that it's been more of a problem. Prior to this, it would cause it to run rough for a little while after a long layup (as the water made it's way through the cabs), but then it would run fine. Now, it seems as though the water "infects" the entire tank, and the only way to solve it is to drain and replace the fuel. It's possible that this could be related to ethanol in the fuel, or I could just need to do a carb rebuild.
Plotman posted 08-29-2008 02:07 PM ET (US)
Put a piece of tinfoil over the cap to keep water out.
Tohsgib posted 08-29-2008 02:19 PM ET (US)
Spray paint cap or equiv does a good job.
boatdryver posted 08-29-2008 05:36 PM ET (US)
I can't tell if whalester is using gasoline blended with 10 % ethanol or E80.
JimL
whalester posted 08-29-2008 09:19 PM ET (US)
Boatdryver,I'm burning 10% etanol.
whalester posted 08-29-2008 09:20 PM ET (US)
Sorry,
Ethanol.
jimh posted 08-30-2008 08:24 AM ET (US)
Add a fourth way to get water into the fuel tank:
--it enters via a vent hose. This can occur if the vent is poorly located or improperly oriented.

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Author	Topic: Should Engine Be Replace Due To Water In Fuel
whalester	posted 08-27-2008 04:56 PM ET (US) I have a 1992 Boston Whaler MONTAUK SE with a 90-HP Yamaha. I had the gas tank, hoses, and carburetor rebuild last year after I was told that the ethanol in our fuel was eating away at them and was the cause of my problem in starting the engine. After those repairs the 90-HP Yamaha ran OK--but nowhere near the power I used to have. The boat speed was down to 30-nautical miles per hour compared to 45-nautical miles per hour before. It ran OK that was until last week, when I was given a diagnosis of water in the fuel tanks. I had the Yahama 90-HP motor serviced. It ran OK for a week and now [something, possibly water in the fuel, is] occuring again! As the current engine is 16-years-old, should I just replace the engine with a new 90-HP two-cycle or a 90-HP E-TEC? Or, are the new engines equally plagued with ethanol and water problems?
Casco Bay Outrage	posted 08-27-2008 05:25 PM ET (US) Blended fuel with ethanol has a short shelf life if untreated. When there is water in the tank, the fuel will absorb some but will go through phase separation. Do a search (under new topic) on ethanol or phase separation to learn more. Ethanol is a corrosive. The first tank or two of blended fuel with scour your tank of any dirt, debris etc. It will also eat at old fuel lines. Check all your lines (including inside the engine) to make sure they are alcohol resistant. Your carbs may need another cleaning. Replacing your motor will not prevent phase separation. Treating your fuel and keeping water/condensation out of the fuel mitigates all outboard motor owner's ethanol blended fuel problems. If you don't have a water separator installed, this is the time to do it.
whalester	posted 08-27-2008 05:31 PM ET (US) Thank you for your thoughtful and timely response. Very informative!
dino54904	posted 08-28-2008 12:46 PM ET (US) Suggest installing a Racor filter which not only filters out particles but takes water out of the fuel stream. The clear bowl on the bottom of the filter allows you to monitor what's being taken out of your fuel before it gets to the engine and lets you know what's in your fuel and tank. Good insurance.
Buckda	posted 08-28-2008 01:08 PM ET (US) If you have a MOntauk, you have above-deck (portable) tanks - empty the tank and leave the cap open...let the whole tank dry out. Then put fresh, dry gas in the tank, and treat it with a stabilizer. I recommend keeping the tank at a level where you are regularly using most of the fuel for nearshore day trips - this way, you're keeping the freshest gas in the tank that you can. I also empty my auxilliary tanks after trips - I burn the fuel in the tow vehicle. That way, I have "fresh" gas in the boat. The E-Tec or any other motor has no influence on what is in the fuel tank of your boat. All currently marketed outboard motors react the same when water is introduced to the combustion chamber, regardless of their technology. It is important to find the source of water in your fuel and address it. The Racor filter is primo - but you can get similar results from a standard water separating fuel filter - but the bigger point is that unless you rarely use the boat, you should not need such a filter when using portable tanks...unless the fuel dock is selling seriously contaminated fuel.
towboater	posted 08-28-2008 01:08 PM ET (US) Beware. Racor filters are very efficient, in fact, sometimes so efficient that they will also filter out additives that absorb water and clog quickly. Carry a spare filter and wrench. mk
whalester	posted 08-28-2008 08:25 PM ET (US) Thanks guys, The advise was great!Had a friend come over who knows his way around outboards,and the first thing he did was pull the fuel line to the engine along with the coupler,he then took a empty plastic soda bottle and bulbed the bottle quarter full with fuel,let it sit for 5 mins. and sure enough the water settled to the bottom of the bottle and was very visible! He then bleed the carbs and voila ignition!!! He advised to add stabil and a can of dry gas to each tank and my baby is purring!He also will install a racor for me in the spring.Muchas Gracias mi hermanos!!!
jimh	posted 08-28-2008 09:12 PM ET (US) Engines do not attract water in the gas tank. There are only three ways you get water in the gas tank: --you pump in the water with the fuel you buy; --you condense the water out of the air from diurnal temperature variations; --water leaks into the tank. The most likely source is from the fuel you buy. The amount of water that can condense out of the air above a tank is generally insignificant. Leaks in a tank are as likely to let gasoline out as they are to let water in, so a leaking tank tends to announce itself.
Tohsgib	posted 08-28-2008 09:19 PM ET (US) Keep the engine and keep the water out of it...plain and simple no matter wha year or model you own. Same goes for cars, lawnmowers, bikes, etc.
Hal Watkins	posted 08-29-2008 08:30 AM ET (US) I have been using 10% Ethanol since 1993 in lawnmowers, boats vehicles. Not a single bad experience. I do store inside and have good gas caps. Sometimes I "stabil" sometimes I don't, never had a problem, evn on spring strat ups. Midwest mechanics don't make any big deal about it. I think many folks have been taken advantage of because its an easy way for a mechanic to "dupe" someone who wants to believe that ethanol is the culprit. Jusy my opinion. Hal of Waseca, MN
Buckda	posted 08-29-2008 09:13 AM ET (US) Ditto Hal. Whalester - glad you got that fixed without having to buy a new motor! Remember to tighten your vent caps on your tank when the boat's not in use, and don't spray the tank directly with a water hose when washing the boat to avoid "water injection" from the tank. Visit another gasoline reseller for awhile - the one you regularly visit may have sold you some bad gas. Agree with your friend - use StaBil or another additive to help that ethanol blend stay blended. Congrats on the easy fix. Dave
Plotman	posted 08-29-2008 09:45 AM ET (US) I echo what Hal says. My 1991 Yamahas have never had a problem digesting 10% ethanol fuel. They were built with alcohol resistant hoses and carb parts. I think a lot of east cost mechanics are using ethanol as an excuse to charge folks for a lot of unnecessary work. The fact is that our outboards are no different than yours.
pglein	posted 08-29-2008 02:05 PM ET (US) Yeah, I have chronic problems with water in my tanks on my 13'. They fill with water whenever it rains, as it comes in through the cap vents. I try to remember to close them, but I often forget. It seems as though over the last year and a half or so that it's been more of a problem. Prior to this, it would cause it to run rough for a little while after a long layup (as the water made it's way through the cabs), but then it would run fine. Now, it seems as though the water "infects" the entire tank, and the only way to solve it is to drain and replace the fuel. It's possible that this could be related to ethanol in the fuel, or I could just need to do a carb rebuild.
Plotman	posted 08-29-2008 02:07 PM ET (US) Put a piece of tinfoil over the cap to keep water out.
Tohsgib	posted 08-29-2008 02:19 PM ET (US) Spray paint cap or equiv does a good job.
boatdryver	posted 08-29-2008 05:36 PM ET (US) I can't tell if whalester is using gasoline blended with 10 % ethanol or E80. JimL
whalester	posted 08-29-2008 09:19 PM ET (US) Boatdryver,I'm burning 10% etanol.
whalester	posted 08-29-2008 09:20 PM ET (US) Sorry, Ethanol.
jimh	posted 08-30-2008 08:24 AM ET (US) Add a fourth way to get water into the fuel tank: --it enters via a vent hose. This can occur if the vent is poorly located or improperly oriented.