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Author Topic:   Marine Flares vs Road Flares
blacklab posted 08-31-2008 04:59 PM ET (US)   Profile for blacklab   Send Email to blacklab  
My flares have expired and I expect to be out on the water before most marine stores open. Are the flares that can be purchased at Pep Boys for $2.49 the same? If not, what is the difference? I'm only crabbing in the back bays, but don't want to have a problem with expired or incorrect type of signal. Thank you in advance for your replies.
dfmcintyre posted 08-31-2008 05:34 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Pep Boys (and other automotive stores) highway flares do not have an expiration date.

Don

chopbuster posted 09-01-2008 12:00 AM ET (US)     Profile for chopbuster    
Read the first regulation.

http://www.boatingsafety.com/boats/cgvisuals.htm

blacklab posted 09-01-2008 01:27 AM ET (US)     Profile for blacklab  Send Email to blacklab     
Thank you for your responses. If I have interpreted these coast guard regulations correctly, no visual distress signal is required up to a point that is 2 miles wide. I.e. in the back bays of coastal NJ, where a boat could never be more than 1 mile away from any shore. Please see:

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_vds.htm

I'll be picking up some flares anyway.

crabby posted 09-01-2008 08:31 PM ET (US)     Profile for crabby  Send Email to crabby     
I've never used a handheld marine flare, but I know that every automotive roadside flare I've ever used usually melts down and drips (not good on a boat or if you are trying to hold onto it).
BlueMax posted 09-01-2008 11:39 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Just my opinion - I'm thinking Marine Flares launch into the sky and can be visible for miles and burn out before they return to earth (or water as the case may be) whereas road flares burn, spit and melt where they are placed - big difference. I would personally not use a road flare on my boat, they can be way too hot to hold (especially when they burn down), can damage the boat and possibly even cause a fire on the vessel (especially if you have above deck tanks). Additionally the road flare would only be line of sight at sea level and possibly not noticed in the day time.

pglein posted 09-02-2008 03:04 PM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
BlueMax,

There are two kinds of marine flares; ones that shoot up in the air, and ones you hold in your hand and wave around. While the kind that you hold in your hand may LOOK like road flares, they are, indeed, quite different.

contender posted 09-02-2008 04:21 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
Crabby hold it upside down or to the side, over the side of the boat Plgein: is correct, However, believe it or not the laws are different in different parts of the country for boating and what they are required to carry, Starting Jan 1/09 Fla. it will be required for anyone fishing to now carry a circle hook on board, salt or fresh water fishing, thats right one hook, you do not have to use it, or need it, but you do have to have it...government at its best
pglein posted 09-02-2008 06:11 PM ET (US)     Profile for pglein  Send Email to pglein     
What's a circle hook?
contender posted 09-02-2008 08:37 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
Hook that is bent round with the point toward the shank, it is suppose to just hook the fish in the corner of the mouth and not harm it so it can be released. Usually used for large bottom fish (just got back from Alaska and used them for Halibut, down in South Fla. for Tile fish and other deep water fish) However, do not know if can be/is used for fresh water fishing but the government saw it fit to make every boater carry one now (as of Jan 1/09)... Even if you fly fish... Another person in charge with no common sense...be safe
BlueMax posted 09-02-2008 08:42 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
I guess I'm not familiar with the Marine flares that can be hand held - do they use a different type of pyrotechnic that does not burn as hot or sputer and make a mess (although I guess if you need help, your least concern is making a mess on the deck). Also would like to know what a "circle hook" is. Does it look like some kind of animal trainer snare that you can snag someone in the water with?

Good stuff.

BlueMax posted 09-02-2008 08:43 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
Contender, I guess you posted while i was typing, thanks for the info.
jimh posted 09-02-2008 09:13 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
I have quite a collection of marine safety flares whose certification has expired. I keep meaning to set them off to see how they work. Do you think you would get in trouble if you were in a small boat at night and you ignited a safety flare that was out of date? Could you be cited by the Coast Guard for making a false signal? That is, can the light from an expired flare be considered a distress signal?
contender posted 09-02-2008 09:24 PM ET (US)     Profile for contender  Send Email to contender     
jimh In a small boat at night set off a flare, yes false alarm, set it off in your drive way to see how it works...be safe
whalerron posted 09-02-2008 09:28 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
The Maryland Department of Natural Resources performed a test of Marine Handheld Flares and Marine Handheld Orange Smoke flares. The test was carried out on the Eastern Shore near the Chesapeake Bay bridge and observers were setup across the bay on the Western Shore. The object was to see which type of flares were more quickly noticed in daylight. The Orange Smokes were noticed much faster.

jimh - I had 2 20 year old handheld marine flares which had been kept in a dry box on my boat. I recently lit them off. They worked like brand new. It is illegal to display a visual distress signal from a vessel unless there is an actual emergency:
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/boating/wog/equipment-regulations.asp See the "Visual Distress Signals" section about 1/2 way down the page.

- ron

dfmcintyre posted 09-02-2008 09:32 PM ET (US)     Profile for dfmcintyre  Send Email to dfmcintyre     
Uh, Jim....If that's gonna be your line of reasoning to a federal magistrate "Your Honor, I ask that the charges of Improper Flare/Signal use be dismissed as I was TESTING them because they were outdated. Oh, and the USCG and the XXX (fill in with your favorite or least favorite county here) County Sheriff's Department should have known that when they responded."....be my guest. Just let me know the court date. I'm always up for some entertainment...

On the serious side, I've received conflicting advise in the past regarding even carrying expired flares as extras. I view extra, outdated flares in the category as I do extra ammunition....you can never have enough. Anyways, this year I posed the question to the USGC Aux crew who inspected our large boat.

They told me that as long as the minimum up to date flares, etc were carried, it didn't matter if the additional flares were out dated.

Best - Don

whalerron posted 09-02-2008 09:38 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
quote:
All vessels used on coastal waters, the Great Lakes, territorial seas, and those waters connected directly to them, up to a point where a body of water is less than two miles wide, must be equipped with U.S.C.G. Approved visual distress signals.
http://www.boatingsafety.com/boats/cgvisuals.htm

crabby,
I interpret this regulation to state that a boat on the Great Lakes, on US territorial seas or on a narrow connecting body of water must carry distress signals. Anything else is considered "the high seas" which has a different set of requirements.

whalerron posted 09-02-2008 09:40 PM ET (US)     Profile for whalerron  Send Email to whalerron     
crabby, I stand corrected. This site has a nice diagram of the regulation.

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/fedreqs/equ_vds.htm

jimh posted 09-02-2008 10:36 PM ET (US)     Profile for jimh  Send Email to jimh     
Wait a minute---Wait a minute!

If the Federales can cite me for having out-of-date flares, then how can they also cite me for making a false distress signal with an out-of-date flare. That seems like having it work both ways in their favor!

BlueMax posted 09-02-2008 10:58 PM ET (US)     Profile for BlueMax  Send Email to BlueMax     
That's the federales for ya!

I once set off expired flares in my driveway on a 4th of July and got a stern lecture from a Sherriff’s deputy that happened to be patrolling the area. I had six aerial flares that were about a year or more out of date - only 2 out of 5 of them actually fired off and the Sherriff pulled up as I sat in the back of my boat getting ready to pull the cord on the last one. He told me the proper way to dispose them was to turn them in to the Coast Guard station as they were still considered pyrotechnics if I were to throw them in the trash. Well he actually had a lot more to say to my drunk arse, but that was about the only part I listened to other than "I am not going to cite you at this time" (NC has an 'if it goes up or blows up it is illegal' policy).

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