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Author Topic:   Safety Flares

jimh posted 10-19-2008 11:04 AM ET (US)
With the boat out of commission for the winter, I was cleaning up some of the boating gear left in the house with a eye to storing it for the winter in an orderly fashion, when I came upon a set of expired safety flares. Their label said they were made in May 1998 and that they expired in October 2001. These safety flares were made over ten years ago and have been out-of-date as far as the United States Coast Guard is concerned for seven years. Up to today I have only purchased and stored safety flares like these; I have never actually operated one to make a distress signal. I thought this was a good time to learn first-hand how they work. In a distress situation my ability to learn how to use them might be reduced.
I read the label on the flare to learn the operating procedure. The instructions are printed on the cylindrical body of the flare itself, and they are a bit hard to read as you have to rotate the flare to see each line of text. I misread the instructions and missed a crucial step. I had removed the plastic end cap, but I failed to remove the rubber cap that covers the abrasive strike pad. Eventually I figured this out.
Holding the flare in one hand and the strike pad in the other, I tried to ignite the flare by dragging the strike pad across the flare ignitor. After about five tries, the flare still had not ignited. I began to think that perhaps there was something to this expiration date process other than a good way to drive flares sales upward every three years. The strike was becoming clogged with residue from the flare ignitor. Finally, on about the sixth or seventh try, the flare ignited.
The flare initially had a small flame jet, but this soon grew into a strong, very bright, and roaring flame jet. A lot of smoke was also produced. The instructions caution to point the flare downwind. This is crucial, as otherwise you would be engulfed in smoke.
The flare burned for about three minutes. During the burning very hot droplets of material, probably the melting plastic flare tube itself, fell out of the flame jet. These hot droplets are not mentioned in the instructions, but they might be hazardous to your boat. Holding the flare over water seems like a good idea.
It was instructive for me to test this expired flare. I learned how to operate it in a low-stress situation. The operation of all safety gear on a boat should be familiar to the vessel master and crew. Rehearsing the use of safety gear is an important part of learning how to be a better boater. If you have an expired safety flare, I suggest you become familiar with how to operate it.

ConB posted 10-19-2008 01:17 PM ET (US)
Many years ago we were "testing" the flares that come in a trucker safety package. There sure was a lot of hot stuff coming out of that thing going every direction.
I have always assumed that the hand held flares for boaters were the same.
I am also of the opinion the burning one of those on my little boat could cause far more trouble than I'm already in.
Con
TransAm posted 10-19-2008 01:57 PM ET (US)
I may have to give that a try as well. My only experience with a flare has been a roman candle on the 4th of July. I'd try my flare gun as well, but the farmer behind me with 200 acres of hay may get a bit annoyed if I torch his crop accidentally. Not sure doing it over water is such a good idea either. Withe DNR only a short distance away, I might spark unneeded attention.
swist posted 10-19-2008 02:03 PM ET (US)
I used to burn those expired flares in the 4th of July on land, and came to the conclusion that, other than a one-time test run as Jim H did, they are best not trifled with unless there is a real emergency. Yes they leak toxic hi-temp goop, and speaking of hi-temp I am guessing they are really really hot.
home Aside posted 10-19-2008 04:04 PM ET (US)
I too have several expired flares, I have never tested the marine handheld flares or the 12 Ga flares. I rotate them out by keeping the last expired flares along with the latest purchased ones, I fugure if I'm going to need a flare, I'm probably going to want some extras....
Other that the composition of the tube I'd have to say from jimh's description the handheld marine flares operate much like road flares we use in Law Enforcement. over the years I've had to replace several pairs of uniform pants, shirts, jackets, gloves, & boots due to the "droppings" from hand held flares, also from the sparks when igniting them....sometimes at vehiclular accidents on freeways it's not unusual to go through a couple of cases of flares.
The road flares also keep going in heavy rain & snow
I don't know that I've heard of the proper procedure for disposing of expired flares, I do know the Coast Guard does not take kindly to just shooting them off to get rid of them
Pat
fishgutz posted 10-19-2008 05:27 PM ET (US)
Talked to a guy at a marine store while I was looking at new flares. He told me his experience. The one time he had to signal for distress he couldn't use his flares. He had major gas fumes all around and in his boat. If he'd have lit a flare, Kablooey!. Carry an ACR ELECTRONICS DistresS.O.S.™ Night Signal. Just in case.
Jefecinco posted 10-19-2008 06:41 PM ET (US)
I don't recall the details of the testing but I think it was by BOAT/US a few years ago. It could have been West Marine, but.... anyway!
Pistol fired parachute flares were found to be much more effective than hand held flares. I believe 12 gage were the best, by far, but the 25(??) gage were significantly better than hand helds.
I highly recommend having plenty of parachute flares aboard rather than hand held flares. Ther is always the chance you will need help. If you are in the water wearing a PFD I believe it will be much easier to launch a parachute flare if you see a helicopter or other search or rescue craft in your vicinity.
Butch
Estero posted 10-19-2008 06:52 PM ET (US)
I recall reading on a website somewhere that it is acceptable to 'dispose' of old flares by shooting them off horizontally at sea. I looked around to see if I could find the site again but no luck.
I know it's not much of a reference, but hey, I read it on the internet, so it must be true!
I'm curious though; if you can't discharge them, they would have to be disposed of as some kind of explosive waste, right?
Tim
high sierra posted 10-19-2008 06:56 PM ET (US)
I tried a set of expired meteor flares to see how they worked . I only fired ONE. It's like touching off a 22 mag right beside your ear. Since it's a two hand operation, you can't get away from your head. Ear plugs HIGHLY recommended. high sierra
jimp posted 10-19-2008 07:41 PM ET (US)
JimH -
Good report.
high sierra -
Good reminder on the big "bang".
Several things to do with expired flares:
1. Donate to the Coast Guard Auxiliary and either let them use them for training, or you join them for some instruction.
2. Depending on your local CG - contact them and tell them you'd like to shoot off an expired flare to train your family. They may take your location information and say "go ahead" and they may invite you to the station for their training as well as yours. They might even hold a "safety seminar" for locals and have it somewhere convenient.
3. Wait for the 4th of July and set the expired flares off when everybody else is doing it in the fleet that came out to watch the fireworks. Don't expect to get rescued if a real emergency. Or set one off in your driveway.
4. DO NOT throw them in the garbage.
Two thoughts on using your VDS in a real emergency:
1. Use your new flares as you might only have one shot at getting off a signal. It would be a shame if your last thought as you were going under was, "Maybe I should have used a new flare!"
2. Old VDS usually last long beyond their expiration dates. So in an emergency, set off an old one and save your new ones. Chances are when the CG boards you after your rescue you won't have three good flares... and that's a violation. Judgment call on their part.
Years ago when our kids were younger we taught them how to use a fire extinguisher. Get one at the local hardware store, Costco, or wherever; you can sometimes get "2 for $18" or some such deal. Read the instructions with the kids. Fill a little dog food can or something similar with a bit of gasoline and carefully light it. Let each child take a turn extinguishing a fire. Great training for $9. If you buy two, keep the second in the kitchen, garage or car.
In all cases, think before you do something.
JimP
dbrody posted 10-20-2008 02:23 AM ET (US)
Recent emergency experience with flares. This past summer we capsized our 15 Dauntless about 4 miles outside of Hanalei Bay, at about 8:30 a.m. After getting situated on the hull and gathering our safety eqipment, the first thing we did was light a flare. We had 4 Orion Hand-Held Marine Red Signal Flares. The instructions on the flare state to "Use Day or Night Only After Aircraft Spotted." Having no prior experience with these flares we lit one immediately hoping a passing tour helicopter or boat might see the light or smoke. To our disappointment the flare put out a small 1-2 inch light and very little smoke. After 1 flare we decided that we would not use another one unless it was dark. So the lesson learned for us was that this particular "day or night" flare is not what you really want during the day. The next boat will have orange smoke flares.
It should also be noted that the Coast Guard had a very difficult time spotting a small white hull with three men (even with orange life vests) on it in a sea full of white caps. The helicopter passed over us 3 times without seeing us and spotted us on the 4th pass. The second pass was 12 o'clock high right over us at 100-200 ft. We were sure they saw us each pass only to watch them fade away until they came back a few minutes later. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Coast Guard, they saved our lives!
Bottom line is the next boat will have a combination of smoke flares for daytime and light flare for night. Actually, I will have some sort of flare gun on the next boat.
Be safe.
Aloha,
Mike
BlueMax posted 10-20-2008 02:39 AM ET (US)
I told my experience with expired flares once before but will tell it again anyway... :-)
About 11 pm to Midnight, 4th of July mid-90's, Jacksonville, NC. The whole court is setting off a variety of fireworks and having a good time sharing kitchen concoctions with each other on our front lawns as we celebrate an impromptu black party. We're having a great time with music blaring through my musician roommate's stage PA after his show at the beach earlier that day. We're all pretty toasted when I get the bright idea of firing off my expired boat flares (they were like 3 years past their expiration date) and everybody said "Yeah...!". Well, two out of 5 went off and as I sat my beer down in the back of my boat in my driveway getting ready to pull the lanyard on number 6, a sheriff's deputy revs into the driveway and hits the lights and quick siren right behind me - seems he was patrolling the area and was in a nearby court when my first flare went off. One dud later the second one went up and he had my block pegged.
After a "brisk" one-way conversation, some who were there have referred to it as a "thorough axx-chewing", I got off with just the public lecture and we had to shut the music down (Seems that's what he was looking for up and down the courts to begin with because it was late and could be heard for blocks in any direction in the development -oops - but we knew that. ha).
Anyway, gist of it is he tells me I should turn expired flares into the Coast Guard for disposal since they could also use them for training/instruction materials (Coast Guardsmen I talked to since have said "Huh - We would want them why...??"). As the officer gets ready to get back in his patrol car and we are heading indoors with our beers in hand and tails between our legs, he loudly asks if I learned anything from the night - without thinking I say "Yea, expired flares are unreliable" and everyone starts laughing. As the deputy steps toward me, my next door neighbor Mike, a Lt. with the Provost Marshall's Office (PMO) on base - just says "I got him officer..." Drink in one hand and my elbow in his other hustles me inside and says "you better stay put for awhile" and closes my front door as the deputy stands outside glaring mad. Mike talked the deputy into just letting the entire issue go and a half hour later brings another batch of fresh blended drinks by and says "Okay - you boys can come back out and play now - but only if you promise to play nice this time." Ha.
wbullwin posted 10-20-2008 10:30 AM ET (US)
If you are close to a Sea Scouts Troop, I understand that they will take them for training. But then I have to ask, how many thousands of expired flares are out there and what would they do with them all if we all show up with our packs of 3? I'm suprised they are allowed to sell something that has a short life span and then there is no place to dispose of them safely, or at least no one seems to know the secret place.
WhalerAce posted 10-20-2008 11:36 AM ET (US)
After seeing Mike's post (dbrody), it revived my thinking again: Why don't we have bright orange bottom paint (below the bottom chine) for occasions such as the unlikely event that the boat flips?
What would it really hurt to do the real bottom in that color?
--- WhalerAce
tedious posted 10-20-2008 12:46 PM ET (US)
Lighting something as volatile as gasoline in a can to show your family how to use a fire extinguisher is a really bad idea. I'm not the safety police, but someone could really get hurt. A better choice might be a little diesel fuel or even just cooking oil in the bottom of a can, with a paper towel as a wick. Definitely a good idea to teach kids how to use an extinguisher.
Tim
gss036 posted 10-20-2008 01:32 PM ET (US)
I think flares are great for low light situations where they are visible, but one should definately have a signal mirror to assist aircraft in spotting you. I learnt that in all my years training in the military working around jet aircraft and checking survival gear.
mdono posted 10-20-2008 04:50 PM ET (US)
I fire off date expired flares when I can’t fit new replacements in my waterproof boat storage box. A couple years ago I attempted to fire the type that one points skyward and pulls the attached chain that dangles from the bottom of the flare holder. The chains on two of the three pulled out without ignition. I guess the expiration date had merit after all.
I now use only the 25? gauge pistol type flares only.
My Dad, an old school Air Force and ANG pilot had a bunch of flares that were designed to be fired from aircraft at altitude. He had and I still have the big old flare gun too. I fired off the last of the batch (dated 1966) a couple years ago. The burn time exceeded the flight time by about 20 or 30 seconds. As mentioned these were meant to be fired from aircraft at altitude.
Damn near burned down the woods behind my house.
M
Chuck Tribolet posted 10-20-2008 07:23 PM ET (US)
I've seen boat flares fired in full California sunshine during
a USCGA exercise at the Monterey breakwater. They were quite
visible.

Chuck
mateobosch posted 10-20-2008 10:49 PM ET (US)
JimP,
I would strongly recommend against shooting off old flares during the fourth of July or any other celebrations. I know of a situation where people did this and were arrested by the Coast Guard for illegal use of distress signals. Not only that, it appears it could distract the CG.
<http://coastguardnews.com/coast-guard-pursues-flare-sighting-false-distress-signals/2008/08/18/>
Just my thoughts.
Matt
jimp posted 10-21-2008 11:06 AM ET (US)
Matt -
I'm not saying it's a good idea. When there are dozens of flares going off, you won't be noticed. Smart? Likely not.
In addition, you wouldn't get arrested by the CG, if they found you, they'd board your vessel, give you a stern lecture, maybe cite you for negligent operation (carries a fine) and leave. If you've been drinking and are intoxicated, then they would likely haul you in.
As for bulding a small fire in a can with gasoline to show your kids how to use a fire extinguisher. Your gasoline powered Whaler uses gasoline, your kids better know that. Better to show then the effects of an extinguisher on a gas fire than something that is not on the boat (diesel and cooking oil smell differently than gasoline). Get them used to the smell and the characteristics of a gas fire. Teach them the "fire triangle" - fuel, heat, oxygen, show them that the fire extinguisher takes away part of the fire. Gasoline should not be "feared", but understood. When you build your gas fire in a can, less than an ounce will do it.
As I said before: In all cases, think before you do something.
JimP
Hines Pointer posted 10-21-2008 11:58 AM ET (US)
I've found that my local fire department will accept outdated flares, while my police department will not. Hopefully others might find their fire departments do the same.
pecos23 posted 10-21-2008 07:19 PM ET (US)
beach fires are the perfect place to use a flare. they are perfect for getting a beach fire going since they will light wet wood and can be thrown into the fire when finished. i keep them around all the time.
mateobosch posted 10-21-2008 10:15 PM ET (US)
Jimp,
agreed. I don't know all the circumstances involved on why those people were takin away but I know it started with a flare that caught the CG's attention.
Good luck with your fire training, it is always good to be able to deal accordingly in a fire.
hauptjm posted 10-23-2008 01:43 PM ET (US)
If I remember correctly, the droplets of "goop" that are produced in burning flares are sulphur and magnesium. I certainly wouldn't want that hitting my gelcoat.
I only use the Olin brand pistol flares. And yes, they too don't last forever: particularly in a marine environment.
Bulldog posted 10-23-2008 08:16 PM ET (US)
I carry both handheld and a pistol launcher, I have yet to get rid of the launcher flares but the hand helds go in my truck for road use, and I always seem to use about three in the time of expiration of new ones. I still have no plan for disposing of the launched ones and will carry a expired set on boat as back up. I have tried them before and agree hold it way over the side of boat down wind!There was a lot of smoke and the flare is very bright on a sunny day.......Jack

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Author	Topic: Safety Flares
jimh	posted 10-19-2008 11:04 AM ET (US) With the boat out of commission for the winter, I was cleaning up some of the boating gear left in the house with a eye to storing it for the winter in an orderly fashion, when I came upon a set of expired safety flares. Their label said they were made in May 1998 and that they expired in October 2001. These safety flares were made over ten years ago and have been out-of-date as far as the United States Coast Guard is concerned for seven years. Up to today I have only purchased and stored safety flares like these; I have never actually operated one to make a distress signal. I thought this was a good time to learn first-hand how they work. In a distress situation my ability to learn how to use them might be reduced. I read the label on the flare to learn the operating procedure. The instructions are printed on the cylindrical body of the flare itself, and they are a bit hard to read as you have to rotate the flare to see each line of text. I misread the instructions and missed a crucial step. I had removed the plastic end cap, but I failed to remove the rubber cap that covers the abrasive strike pad. Eventually I figured this out. Holding the flare in one hand and the strike pad in the other, I tried to ignite the flare by dragging the strike pad across the flare ignitor. After about five tries, the flare still had not ignited. I began to think that perhaps there was something to this expiration date process other than a good way to drive flares sales upward every three years. The strike was becoming clogged with residue from the flare ignitor. Finally, on about the sixth or seventh try, the flare ignited. The flare initially had a small flame jet, but this soon grew into a strong, very bright, and roaring flame jet. A lot of smoke was also produced. The instructions caution to point the flare downwind. This is crucial, as otherwise you would be engulfed in smoke. The flare burned for about three minutes. During the burning very hot droplets of material, probably the melting plastic flare tube itself, fell out of the flame jet. These hot droplets are not mentioned in the instructions, but they might be hazardous to your boat. Holding the flare over water seems like a good idea. It was instructive for me to test this expired flare. I learned how to operate it in a low-stress situation. The operation of all safety gear on a boat should be familiar to the vessel master and crew. Rehearsing the use of safety gear is an important part of learning how to be a better boater. If you have an expired safety flare, I suggest you become familiar with how to operate it.
ConB	posted 10-19-2008 01:17 PM ET (US) Many years ago we were "testing" the flares that come in a trucker safety package. There sure was a lot of hot stuff coming out of that thing going every direction. I have always assumed that the hand held flares for boaters were the same. I am also of the opinion the burning one of those on my little boat could cause far more trouble than I'm already in. Con
TransAm	posted 10-19-2008 01:57 PM ET (US) I may have to give that a try as well. My only experience with a flare has been a roman candle on the 4th of July. I'd try my flare gun as well, but the farmer behind me with 200 acres of hay may get a bit annoyed if I torch his crop accidentally. Not sure doing it over water is such a good idea either. Withe DNR only a short distance away, I might spark unneeded attention.
swist	posted 10-19-2008 02:03 PM ET (US) I used to burn those expired flares in the 4th of July on land, and came to the conclusion that, other than a one-time test run as Jim H did, they are best not trifled with unless there is a real emergency. Yes they leak toxic hi-temp goop, and speaking of hi-temp I am guessing they are really really hot.
home Aside	posted 10-19-2008 04:04 PM ET (US) I too have several expired flares, I have never tested the marine handheld flares or the 12 Ga flares. I rotate them out by keeping the last expired flares along with the latest purchased ones, I fugure if I'm going to need a flare, I'm probably going to want some extras.... Other that the composition of the tube I'd have to say from jimh's description the handheld marine flares operate much like road flares we use in Law Enforcement. over the years I've had to replace several pairs of uniform pants, shirts, jackets, gloves, & boots due to the "droppings" from hand held flares, also from the sparks when igniting them....sometimes at vehiclular accidents on freeways it's not unusual to go through a couple of cases of flares. The road flares also keep going in heavy rain & snow I don't know that I've heard of the proper procedure for disposing of expired flares, I do know the Coast Guard does not take kindly to just shooting them off to get rid of them Pat
fishgutz	posted 10-19-2008 05:27 PM ET (US) Talked to a guy at a marine store while I was looking at new flares. He told me his experience. The one time he had to signal for distress he couldn't use his flares. He had major gas fumes all around and in his boat. If he'd have lit a flare, Kablooey!. Carry an ACR ELECTRONICS DistresS.O.S.™ Night Signal. Just in case.
Jefecinco	posted 10-19-2008 06:41 PM ET (US) I don't recall the details of the testing but I think it was by BOAT/US a few years ago. It could have been West Marine, but.... anyway! Pistol fired parachute flares were found to be much more effective than hand held flares. I believe 12 gage were the best, by far, but the 25(??) gage were significantly better than hand helds. I highly recommend having plenty of parachute flares aboard rather than hand held flares. Ther is always the chance you will need help. If you are in the water wearing a PFD I believe it will be much easier to launch a parachute flare if you see a helicopter or other search or rescue craft in your vicinity. Butch
Estero	posted 10-19-2008 06:52 PM ET (US) I recall reading on a website somewhere that it is acceptable to 'dispose' of old flares by shooting them off horizontally at sea. I looked around to see if I could find the site again but no luck. I know it's not much of a reference, but hey, I read it on the internet, so it must be true! I'm curious though; if you can't discharge them, they would have to be disposed of as some kind of explosive waste, right? Tim
high sierra	posted 10-19-2008 06:56 PM ET (US) I tried a set of expired meteor flares to see how they worked . I only fired ONE. It's like touching off a 22 mag right beside your ear. Since it's a two hand operation, you can't get away from your head. Ear plugs HIGHLY recommended. high sierra
jimp	posted 10-19-2008 07:41 PM ET (US) JimH - Good report. high sierra - Good reminder on the big "bang". Several things to do with expired flares: 1. Donate to the Coast Guard Auxiliary and either let them use them for training, or you join them for some instruction. 2. Depending on your local CG - contact them and tell them you'd like to shoot off an expired flare to train your family. They may take your location information and say "go ahead" and they may invite you to the station for their training as well as yours. They might even hold a "safety seminar" for locals and have it somewhere convenient. 3. Wait for the 4th of July and set the expired flares off when everybody else is doing it in the fleet that came out to watch the fireworks. Don't expect to get rescued if a real emergency. Or set one off in your driveway. 4. DO NOT throw them in the garbage. Two thoughts on using your VDS in a real emergency: 1. Use your new flares as you might only have one shot at getting off a signal. It would be a shame if your last thought as you were going under was, "Maybe I should have used a new flare!" 2. Old VDS usually last long beyond their expiration dates. So in an emergency, set off an old one and save your new ones. Chances are when the CG boards you after your rescue you won't have three good flares... and that's a violation. Judgment call on their part. Years ago when our kids were younger we taught them how to use a fire extinguisher. Get one at the local hardware store, Costco, or wherever; you can sometimes get "2 for $18" or some such deal. Read the instructions with the kids. Fill a little dog food can or something similar with a bit of gasoline and carefully light it. Let each child take a turn extinguishing a fire. Great training for $9. If you buy two, keep the second in the kitchen, garage or car. In all cases, think before you do something. JimP
dbrody	posted 10-20-2008 02:23 AM ET (US) Recent emergency experience with flares. This past summer we capsized our 15 Dauntless about 4 miles outside of Hanalei Bay, at about 8:30 a.m. After getting situated on the hull and gathering our safety eqipment, the first thing we did was light a flare. We had 4 Orion Hand-Held Marine Red Signal Flares. The instructions on the flare state to "Use Day or Night Only After Aircraft Spotted." Having no prior experience with these flares we lit one immediately hoping a passing tour helicopter or boat might see the light or smoke. To our disappointment the flare put out a small 1-2 inch light and very little smoke. After 1 flare we decided that we would not use another one unless it was dark. So the lesson learned for us was that this particular "day or night" flare is not what you really want during the day. The next boat will have orange smoke flares. It should also be noted that the Coast Guard had a very difficult time spotting a small white hull with three men (even with orange life vests) on it in a sea full of white caps. The helicopter passed over us 3 times without seeing us and spotted us on the 4th pass. The second pass was 12 o'clock high right over us at 100-200 ft. We were sure they saw us each pass only to watch them fade away until they came back a few minutes later. Don't get me wrong I'm not knocking the Coast Guard, they saved our lives! Bottom line is the next boat will have a combination of smoke flares for daytime and light flare for night. Actually, I will have some sort of flare gun on the next boat. Be safe. Aloha, Mike
BlueMax	posted 10-20-2008 02:39 AM ET (US) I told my experience with expired flares once before but will tell it again anyway... :-) About 11 pm to Midnight, 4th of July mid-90's, Jacksonville, NC. The whole court is setting off a variety of fireworks and having a good time sharing kitchen concoctions with each other on our front lawns as we celebrate an impromptu black party. We're having a great time with music blaring through my musician roommate's stage PA after his show at the beach earlier that day. We're all pretty toasted when I get the bright idea of firing off my expired boat flares (they were like 3 years past their expiration date) and everybody said "Yeah...!". Well, two out of 5 went off and as I sat my beer down in the back of my boat in my driveway getting ready to pull the lanyard on number 6, a sheriff's deputy revs into the driveway and hits the lights and quick siren right behind me - seems he was patrolling the area and was in a nearby court when my first flare went off. One dud later the second one went up and he had my block pegged. After a "brisk" one-way conversation, some who were there have referred to it as a "thorough axx-chewing", I got off with just the public lecture and we had to shut the music down (Seems that's what he was looking for up and down the courts to begin with because it was late and could be heard for blocks in any direction in the development -oops - but we knew that. ha). Anyway, gist of it is he tells me I should turn expired flares into the Coast Guard for disposal since they could also use them for training/instruction materials (Coast Guardsmen I talked to since have said "Huh - We would want them why...??"). As the officer gets ready to get back in his patrol car and we are heading indoors with our beers in hand and tails between our legs, he loudly asks if I learned anything from the night - without thinking I say "Yea, expired flares are unreliable" and everyone starts laughing. As the deputy steps toward me, my next door neighbor Mike, a Lt. with the Provost Marshall's Office (PMO) on base - just says "I got him officer..." Drink in one hand and my elbow in his other hustles me inside and says "you better stay put for awhile" and closes my front door as the deputy stands outside glaring mad. Mike talked the deputy into just letting the entire issue go and a half hour later brings another batch of fresh blended drinks by and says "Okay - you boys can come back out and play now - but only if you promise to play nice this time." Ha.
wbullwin	posted 10-20-2008 10:30 AM ET (US) If you are close to a Sea Scouts Troop, I understand that they will take them for training. But then I have to ask, how many thousands of expired flares are out there and what would they do with them all if we all show up with our packs of 3? I'm suprised they are allowed to sell something that has a short life span and then there is no place to dispose of them safely, or at least no one seems to know the secret place.
WhalerAce	posted 10-20-2008 11:36 AM ET (US) After seeing Mike's post (dbrody), it revived my thinking again: Why don't we have bright orange bottom paint (below the bottom chine) for occasions such as the unlikely event that the boat flips? What would it really hurt to do the real bottom in that color? --- WhalerAce
tedious	posted 10-20-2008 12:46 PM ET (US) Lighting something as volatile as gasoline in a can to show your family how to use a fire extinguisher is a really bad idea. I'm not the safety police, but someone could really get hurt. A better choice might be a little diesel fuel or even just cooking oil in the bottom of a can, with a paper towel as a wick. Definitely a good idea to teach kids how to use an extinguisher. Tim
gss036	posted 10-20-2008 01:32 PM ET (US) I think flares are great for low light situations where they are visible, but one should definately have a signal mirror to assist aircraft in spotting you. I learnt that in all my years training in the military working around jet aircraft and checking survival gear.
mdono	posted 10-20-2008 04:50 PM ET (US) I fire off date expired flares when I can’t fit new replacements in my waterproof boat storage box. A couple years ago I attempted to fire the type that one points skyward and pulls the attached chain that dangles from the bottom of the flare holder. The chains on two of the three pulled out without ignition. I guess the expiration date had merit after all. I now use only the 25? gauge pistol type flares only. My Dad, an old school Air Force and ANG pilot had a bunch of flares that were designed to be fired from aircraft at altitude. He had and I still have the big old flare gun too. I fired off the last of the batch (dated 1966) a couple years ago. The burn time exceeded the flight time by about 20 or 30 seconds. As mentioned these were meant to be fired from aircraft at altitude. Damn near burned down the woods behind my house. M
Chuck Tribolet	posted 10-20-2008 07:23 PM ET (US) I've seen boat flares fired in full California sunshine during a USCGA exercise at the Monterey breakwater. They were quite visible. Chuck
mateobosch	posted 10-20-2008 10:49 PM ET (US) JimP, I would strongly recommend against shooting off old flares during the fourth of July or any other celebrations. I know of a situation where people did this and were arrested by the Coast Guard for illegal use of distress signals. Not only that, it appears it could distract the CG. <http://coastguardnews.com/coast-guard-pursues-flare-sighting-false-distress-signals/2008/08/18/> Just my thoughts. Matt
jimp	posted 10-21-2008 11:06 AM ET (US) Matt - I'm not saying it's a good idea. When there are dozens of flares going off, you won't be noticed. Smart? Likely not. In addition, you wouldn't get arrested by the CG, if they found you, they'd board your vessel, give you a stern lecture, maybe cite you for negligent operation (carries a fine) and leave. If you've been drinking and are intoxicated, then they would likely haul you in. As for bulding a small fire in a can with gasoline to show your kids how to use a fire extinguisher. Your gasoline powered Whaler uses gasoline, your kids better know that. Better to show then the effects of an extinguisher on a gas fire than something that is not on the boat (diesel and cooking oil smell differently than gasoline). Get them used to the smell and the characteristics of a gas fire. Teach them the "fire triangle" - fuel, heat, oxygen, show them that the fire extinguisher takes away part of the fire. Gasoline should not be "feared", but understood. When you build your gas fire in a can, less than an ounce will do it. As I said before: In all cases, think before you do something. JimP
Hines Pointer	posted 10-21-2008 11:58 AM ET (US) I've found that my local fire department will accept outdated flares, while my police department will not. Hopefully others might find their fire departments do the same.
pecos23	posted 10-21-2008 07:19 PM ET (US) beach fires are the perfect place to use a flare. they are perfect for getting a beach fire going since they will light wet wood and can be thrown into the fire when finished. i keep them around all the time.
mateobosch	posted 10-21-2008 10:15 PM ET (US) Jimp, agreed. I don't know all the circumstances involved on why those people were takin away but I know it started with a flare that caught the CG's attention. Good luck with your fire training, it is always good to be able to deal accordingly in a fire.
hauptjm	posted 10-23-2008 01:43 PM ET (US) If I remember correctly, the droplets of "goop" that are produced in burning flares are sulphur and magnesium. I certainly wouldn't want that hitting my gelcoat. I only use the Olin brand pistol flares. And yes, they too don't last forever: particularly in a marine environment.
Bulldog	posted 10-23-2008 08:16 PM ET (US) I carry both handheld and a pistol launcher, I have yet to get rid of the launcher flares but the hand helds go in my truck for road use, and I always seem to use about three in the time of expiration of new ones. I still have no plan for disposing of the launched ones and will carry a expired set on boat as back up. I have tried them before and agree hold it way over the side of boat down wind!There was a lot of smoke and the flare is very bright on a sunny day.......Jack