posted 11-12-2008 08:17 PM ET (US)        

In talking with my brother last week, we decided to pull her out on Veterans Day; what better way to enjoy the day but on the boat for the last ride of the season.

Yesterday was a beautiful New England fall day, clear cool weather, mid 40's, but a bit windy. I thought to myself “That’s a long row; at least the wind is blowing across the bay towards the boat”. I jumped in the club rowboat & rowed out. Get on the boat & discover that my batteries are low and the engine won't start. The kicker motor is at the end of its life; it has been acting up & I don’t trust it to get me in.

No problem; I have insurance. I'll call Boat US & get a jump.

I call in, and the girl who is processing my info states that I should go & get a new battery myself because it will probably be cheaper. Excuse me????? Shouldn't this be covered as I am on my boat & it won't start? "No, sir, you are not covered because you are at your home port on the mooring."

Really??? Ok then, I tell them that I need a tow, because I am only assuming that I need a jump start. "Hold on sir, I need to discuss this with my supervisor." She gets back on the line & states that her supervisor denied my request; they only tow if it is going to a repair facility; not for towing for a "haul-out". I loose it! Let me talk to your supervisor NOW!!!! Of course, she is busy and will have to return my call.

I couldn't believe it. WTF!!!! I was two thousand degrees! This isn’t covered??? This is Boston Harbor on November 11th; it’s cold & windy. It’s not quite like a fall day in Florida, California or Texas. I really could use a little help here!

1 jump back into the rowboat, row back in (against the wind), borrow (steal) a pair of batteries from shore (in case one was not fully charged), row back out to boat, transfer batteries into my boat (almost loosing one in the process) finally getting the boat started. Get back in to the club, return the borrowed batteries, pull out my batteries & put them on chargers. Go back into club to have lunch & warm up.

I am still mad as hell, but only a thousand degrees now because I’m wet.

After I get squared away, I realize that the Boat US supervisor had actually called me back as I was rowing in from the boat. I called them back, and she wasn’t available once again. Another supervisor gets on the phone, and I let her have it (remember now that I no longer need any help; I have taken care of my problem myself). I ranted at her about having to row across Dorchester Bay, on a cold, windy Fall day, several times so that I can resolve the problem myself. I thought that’s why I paid for “insurance” from you folks. I thanked all of them for essentially giving me a kick in the teeth; and that I really appreciated this type of treatment, especially on Veterans Day.

All this piece of work from Boat US had to say was that I “should refer to my policy agreement when I get a chance”. I thank her for doing absolutely nothing, and to have a wonderful day (no I really did thank her for such wonderful treatment; as pissed as I was, I clearly voiced my displeasure, but I didn’t verbally abuse these clowns).

I have been a Boat US member for many years. That ended yesterday!

Lessons learned this year;

1. Install a solar trickle charger on boat.
2. Request boat club to get a jump pack (damn batteries are too heavy to lug around)
3. If/when you need to call someone to get help, simply state “I am having mechanical difficulties & need assistance” not that I need a jump start, because that may screw you for some twisted reason.
4. Fire Boat US
5. Call Sea Tow next year.

posted 11-13-2008 10:14 AM ET (US)            

So basically, BoatUS could have responded, then handed your claim (jump start at the dock) over to the Underwriters and let them handle it.

Instead, they chose to avoid the litigation hassles for you both. IE, if you lost the case, refused to pay, you would risk liens not much different than not paying for Auto Towing until paid. Im not affiliated with BoatUS or Seatow directly and Ive never had to go thru all this, but Im told you would also be liable for court costs. BoatUS may have saved you a grand (ballpark).

Be sure to read the instructions (fine print) regarding solar chargers, most of them only work on fresh batteries that are fully charged. Your boating enthusiasum is awesome man, If you are going to run with old bats in semi remote areas alone, one day your tow insurance will be priceless.

Untie the boat, drift 100 ft offshore, toss anchor, call.

mk

posted 11-13-2008 11:27 AM ET (US)            

I know Sea Tow does what it can to get you back to your home port so you can fix your boat, but I don't know anything about them coming to your home port and home mooring to fix your boat for you, I don't believe that that is how it works. Other than to tow you to a local repair facility within your home area if needed, you can not call and ask them to bring you some gas or a battery so you can leave your mooring to go fishing/pleasure boating because you are having trouble starting your engine.

I believe the whole purpose of the Boat US/Sea Tow concept is to come to your aide when you are at sea (i.e. away from your mooring) so that you can get back home safely and affect repairs (i.e. replace your battery or fill your tank), not come to your mooring and replace your battery for you so you can leave. In fact, Sea Tow service limitations state that they will not provide a jump start if you are already at your home port and jump starts at sea are at the Captain's discretion. They also state that if the primary covered vessel is disabled at the home port they will arrange a tow (at no charge) to a repair facility's dock within the home area BUT "in ALL cases the tow will be scheduled during off-peak hours and the member must be aboard the vessel." (They also clearly state that they will not provide tow for a haul out).

Sea Tow also does not state anything about bringing you a battery - again, they clearly state that it is at the Captain's discretion to attempt a jump start at sea or to tow you in - but, "for Safety reasons, Sea Tow will not provide jump starts at home ports."

Frustrating as it may be to have a dead battery when you want to go out, I also believe that you owe Boat US an apology for your post and behaviour toward their customer service agent. Even if you had Sea Tow the best they would have done for you in the situation you describe would be to tow you to a repair facility at their convenience. In other words - you would have gotten the exact same response form Sea Tow that you got from Boat US.

posted 11-13-2008 11:43 AM ET (US)            

Here in Texas we are dealing with insurance big time due to hurricane Ike. There are thousands of people in a similar boat as you only it is their home. These people expected insurance to help them due to flooding and wind damage. Many have learned about loop holes in the policy that lessens or eliminates the insurance company to help. Talk about getting irritated, this is their home and have been paying expensive insurance bills for years!

posted 11-13-2008 01:11 PM ET (US)            

Contender, obviously someone else tried the push off from the dock trick since it is specically mentioned in the agreement as not being covered. See the actual text below.

posted 11-13-2008 02:56 PM ET (US)            

BOAT US is not OnStar. They're not there to provide convenience or comfort. At best, the closest land-based comparrision would be AAA (which will not pay for a tow from your driveway to your storage unit). But really, boating is nothing like driving a car. It's an inherintly dangerous and self-reliant activity. You're not driving the family sedan to church. You're piloting a vessel through an environment that is toxic to humans (especially in the winter as water temperatures drop). You've got to be willing from time to time to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty, and maybe even risk your life. Sometimes you're going to have to row your ass through rough water on a windy day and lug batteries around and work up a sweat. It's boating. You have to take it seriously.

posted 11-13-2008 03:26 PM ET (US)         

From the Boat US website:

BoatU.S. ON-WATER
TOWING SERVICE AGREEMENT
This Agreement is applicable throughout United States, Canada, Bahamas and Reimbursement Worldwide
BoatU.S. ON-WATER TOWING provides a range of benefits and PAID SERVICES to an enrolled MEMBER in good standing, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

PAID SERVICES include: Payment for towing Member’s disabled boat from the point of breakdown at sea to port of choice; at sea battery jumpstarts; delivery of fuel, engine fluids and basic engine parts to avoid a tow, subject to availability; soft ungrounding assistance; and towing the disabled boat immediately after breakdown from a restricted use dock to the Member’s homedock or repair facility. A restricted use dock is one from which Member must move immediately, i.e. fuel or restaurant docks and docks without overnight facilities. Paid Services apply to any recreational boat owned, borrowed or chartered by the Member and includes 24 Hour Towing Dispatch Service.

Paid Services are available when using BoatU.S. Licensed Towing Companies (TowBoatU.S.® and Vessel Assist®) up to the SERVICE LEVEL on Member’s card at the time of the breakdown or soft ungrounding. Service Levels include Paid Services up to $50, $150 and UNLIMITED (UNLIMITED GOLD also available on Pacific Coast). UNLIMITED Service Level Paid Services are provided for when the boat is disabled and towed within an UNLIMITED SERVICE AREA. An UNLIMITED SERVICE AREA is defined as at least 50 coastal miles (25 miles in any direction from a Licensed Company’s port). Extended UNLIMITED SERVICE AREAS, 30 miles or more offshore, are available in many locations and can be found online at BoatUS.com/towing or by calling.

If indeed flippa was a member in good standing, it would seem to me he or she would be eligable for such services. All the Boat US rep would have had to say was "I'm sorry Mr. flippa, your general policy does not cover this type of service, however we can offer you this service in accordance with our Paid Services program. The cost would be X$ and we'd be happy to arrange for that service."

posted 11-13-2008 03:58 PM ET (US)            

quote:

---

Payment for towing Member’s disabled boat from the point of breakdown at sea to port of choice; at sea battery jumpstarts...

---

Flippa was at his home port tied to his own mooring, so there was no immediate need to move or be moved. He had a dead battery and understandably wanted help ASAP so he could go boating one last time before he put it away for the season, but he was not in any immediate danger or stranded away from the home port. If you want someone to take care of the nit-noid inconveniences of owning a boat for you, rent. Would we next be expecting Boat US to come fix a flat or change the tire on a trailer - on demand - in the driveway so we can get to the ramp whenever we feel like going out for the day and find ourselves inconvenienced by the "stuff happens" routine maintenance part of owning a boat? Should they be expected to come unstick the throttle or steering cable too?

Sure it may just have been flippa wanting service on demand at the time, but can you imagine them opening themselves up to that level of home-mooring on demand service from their entire customer base? They wouldn't have customers due to the premiums they would have to charge in order to cover keeping people and equipment employed and readily at hand for that.

At some point owner responsibility for keeping the boat running properly has got to come into play. Especially when you are at your own mooring and in no danger of anything other than the disappointment of inconvenience that things need to be taken care of before you can get out.

posted 11-13-2008 07:05 PM ET (US)            

OK, for the sake of continuing the discussion;

1. I have a contract with Boat US. I have a boat. I have a mooring. I also have a trailer. The boat spends equal time on the trailer as it does my mooring in the summer as we take it away with us on weekends. Where is my home port? South Boston, Cape Cod, Niantic CT, the lakes of New Hampshire? We travel alot with teh boat each year.

I do not believe that I ever stated to Boat US that I even keep my boat in South Boston. They apparently deemed it home port during our conversation.

As I stated, I am taking the boat out of the water. My truck & trailer are miles away at a ramp North of Boston as there is no ramp in Southie. I am heading home.

As far as I was concerned this past Tuesday, home port is the same place they send my invoices & news letter; my house.

2. I was just a little disapointed how the girl on the phone handled the situation. Go buy a battery? Cheaper?

Pglein made the comparison of it to AAA for my car. If I call AAA for a jump start, and the clown on the phone tells me "better think of taking the bus, it will be cheaper than a tow truck" I might be just as taken back as I was with Boat US because I'm probably standing on the side of the road miles away from the nearest bus stop.

3. I am standing on my boat when I call. I have rowed out to it (0.46 mile according to Google Earth). There are no support boats from the boat club; everything has been pulled for the season. I explained to the girl on the phone the situation and that I have rowed out to it.

I am at sea, am I not? What is the difference if I am tied to a mooring or my anchor? I am not tied up to a dock. I am by myself standing on my boat, which, although on a mooring, is still at sea almost a half mile from shore.

Boat US deemed that I was just fine right where I was and did not need any assistance. Great.

4. I get denied from Boat US. I get back in the rowboat, go get batteries, row back out & start my boat.

I am a big boy, and can make a judgement call if I am capable of rowing back or not. If I felt that I was in trouble, I could have called the Harbormaster or Coast Guard.

And thanks for clearing up the whole danger thing; I had no clue that there was any danger involved in boating. Environment that is toxic to humans; boy, guess I better get some gloves or something.

5. I really handled the whole situation badly. Really? Without being there listening to the conversation, you are out of line making that statement.

Get in line behind Boat US in kissing my fat Irish arse.

I think I remember saying; "as pissed as I was, I clearly voiced my displeasure, but I didn’t verbally abuse these clowns".

I am in buisness for myself & like to think that I have fairly decent interpersonal skills in dealing with others. I am always courtious on the phone, especially when I am calling someone to give me assistance. As pissed as I was, yelling at this girl sitting in a nice, dry cubicle in Virginia does me no good.

I certainly expressed my dissatisfaction to the supervisor; they have decided that because the boat is on a mooring that I am in home port, in no immediate danger, and do not need assistance. That is bull!!!!

I call for assistance & am told to buy a battery because it will be cheaper??????

I have paid Boat US $119 for financial advice and to determine the home port for my boat. Great. Thanks a lot.

I'll be using Sea Tow next year.

posted 11-13-2008 07:25 PM ET (US)            

"3. If/when you need to call someone to get help, simply state “I am having mechanical difficulties & need assistance” not that I need a jump start, because that may screw you for some twisted reason."

Self-diagnosing a problem & being honest f-ed me.

Suppose something had failed and it wasn't the batteries?

posted 11-13-2008 08:46 PM ET (US)         

Rule 1 the customer is always right.

Rule 2 See rule 1.

I just went through this with another manager at work today. His belief was that his customer was wrong and that his employee had followed the procedures and there was nothing to be done. The manager was wrong. I went back to the customer talked through the situation found a solution everyone could agree on and now we have an action plan and everyone is happy. BoatUS may have saved some money not helping this particular customer but, they lost future revenue from this customer and possibly several more that have read this post. How much did that supervisor save the company? Actually they have probably lost much more in future revenue.

posted 11-14-2008 01:31 AM ET (US)            

Please do not take this post as an argument - with further information, I agree that they should have done something to help, or offer to assist in some manner (even for a fee) and not just blow you off.

However, your initial post left out some key info and lent itself to interpretation based solely on your own statements and I just want to point out a few key ingredients in your initial posting that may have limited some of the arguments that went against you.

1) You don't state that your boat was moored 1/2 mile out in your initial posting - just that you thought it was "a long way to row" which, even on site, is wide-open to individual interpretation.

2) You did not indicate that you disputed the "home port" interpretation of the service agent - when you stated that your "club" was calling it a season and you had to retrieve your boat from its mooring - I took it for granted that that was your home port too. I believe I had to declare a home port for Sea Tow even though my boat stays on the trailer in my driveway. I did not see anything like that in the Boat US application, only a general geographical region of where you primarily intended to boat (i.e. Atlantic Ocean, bays and tributaries - that's a pretty broad Area of Operations).

3) When you asked for a tow instead of a jump did you tell them your intent was to haul it out? Why would they have stated that they don't provide that service otherwise?

4) You're correct when you state that we were not present to hear the whole conversation, so we could only go by what you tell us transpired. Therefore when you already tell us that you are like 1000 or 2000 degrees of heated frustration when talking to them, Statements like "I loose it! Let me talk to your supervisor NOW!!!!" , "Another supervisor gets on the phone, and I let her have it" and "I ranted at her..." Doesn't really lend itself to "I have fairly decent interpersonal skills in dealing with others. I am always courtious on the phone, especially when I am calling someone to give me assistance. As pissed as I was, yelling at this girl sitting in a nice, dry cubicle in Virginia does me no good" which you state in a later post clarifying/defending the whole interaction.

I know you were not looking for sympathy. Maybe a little commiseration, but not sympathy. And, as part of the venting process you also wanted to "warn" others that may be current members or maybe thinking of joining that particular organization, but all we had to go on was what you initially posted, which left much open to interpretation.

In any case your post is actually a very good one for reminding everyone to read and understand their policies (even beyond boat policies) before they find themselves in a similar or worse situation as you. In your case you were fortunate enough to have "the club" to borrow a row boat and some batteries (as well as the health to row back and forth). You at least had the resources and resourcefulness to extricate yourself from the situation without any apparent help (other than the boat and batteries and a warm place to eat a hot meal in between). Others may not be so lucky - heck, i know if it were me, I wouldn't have been a member of the club and would have been totally at the mercy of a good Samaritan and my "insurance" company. In other words - completely screwed! (and miserably cold and wet).

Thanks for a very helpful reminder - it did cause me to go through and read my Sea Tow policy for comprehension, and I am glad that you were safe and sound with a successful out come in spite of the completely frustrating ordeal.

posted 11-14-2008 01:59 PM ET (US)            

The initial phone conversation was nice & calm. I knew she was from Virginia because I was making small talk trying to make a connection with the agent (she, after all, is going to decide my fate).

We even had the tow captain on the line with us at one point. Thats when the non-coverage came up because I was at home port.

At that point I pulled the "not really sure if it is the batteries, probably need a tow to my truck." THe guy even threw in his $0.02 that a tow may be covered. When the agent put us on hold to talk with the supervisor about a tow, the tow captain kept apologizing, saying that he doesn't make the rules; Boat USS decides what's covered & what's not. He asked if I was OK (which I was) and he gave me his number if I needed the assistance. He was a phone call away.

Turned out that "technically" I was not covered because I was at "home port". Why??? Because the boat is on a mooring? I am one of 5 boats left in the mooring field. Sure as hell didn't feel homey when she started talking about home port. A little cold & lonely at home.

The "home port" thing kills me; I know that I never stated that Southie is "home port". I also have a mooring in Salem Harbor that my brother uses (nice for leaving the boat on the North Shore too, saves lots of gas & time). If I was stuck on the mooring at Winter Island in Salem, was that "home port"?

I am on a waiting list for one in Dennis on Cape Cod. Would that have been "home port" if I go down there for the weekend & break down? Yeah, I have a problem collecting moorings, but they are much cheaper than vacation property. Hmmm, one the Vineyard would be nice; I could lease it out.

Thank God that I only throw out anchors in CT, guess I'll be covered there.

I signed up for unlimited towing coverage, not the cheapo one with a deductable. I was heading to "home port" at my home. To say that I was not pleased with how it went was an understatent, but I didn't loose it on the agent (not too bad at least, no swear words, but I was pissed).

I have no problems with a good row. I would have taken my own kayak out there had I waited any longer to get the boat. The docks are gone as of yesterday. The rowboat is away for the season in the basement. The place is closed.

What upset me most was the fact that I could have been in real trouble. I am on the boat, a half mile off shore, on a 45 degree day. No problem.

What if I were a pig-headed stuborn 70 year old guy (which I will be some day) too cheap to pay the $400 fee and not capable of rowing back in. Or worse, attempted to row in, fell in the water & didn't make it.

I understand that would be my problem at that point; you can't insure for stupidity.

posted 11-14-2008 09:23 PM ET (US)            

There are a lot of things I could say about planning but I won't.

I have tow insurance and I'll never use it-hopefully. It's just that-INSURANCE. Just like the cars. A little piece of mind, if really needed.

The "kicker" not functioning and you knowing that, led me to my opinion. What's the use of having one?

Maintenance would/could have avoided the whole issue.

We wonder why rates go up?

AS an owner-I'm responsible. But, that's not the society of today.

"Ripping" a Rep. gets you nowhere fast. They are people too. trying to do a job.

I'm glad you came out safe but sympathy is not given, in my book.

posted 11-18-2008 09:06 AM ET (US)            

When I began boating towing insurance was rare to nonexistant. Cell phones were Buck Rogers items. A radio capable of communicating with a shore station would have been so large as to be impossible to install on a small boat. Only an idiot would run out of fuel. A breakdown could be fatal unless another boater happened upon you. In this environment one tended to go to some effort to ensure the reliability of a boat. Boaters always came to the assistance of one another. Even commercial watermen would stop working in order to help a boater without power. If all else failed they would tow you along until the work day was over and then tow you back to port.

I don't have tow insurance. I've never needed a tow. Knock on wood, I will never need a tow but having a single outboard I know the day may come when I do need a tow. I hope a fellow boater will lend a hand, as I have done several times. If not, I'll call for a tow and pay the fee. Self insurance is sometimes the least costly alternative.

posted 11-18-2008 11:17 AM ET (US)            

2) Cancel your towing insurance, and don't bother buying a different brand. Get an optima battery for your boat for the same money. If you use a bilge pump, get a second one, and keep them isolated so the start battery is never drained by the pump or other accessories. The Optimas hold their charge!

3) Get the kicker working. This is the best insurance, and if it has a recoil starter, you'll get going no matter what. I was stranded with a blown motor 8 miles from port, and the kicker turned a possible bad situation into a pleasant cruise. It has a small alternator, and before I got the Optimas, I once had to rope start it and use it to charge the batteries enough to get the main engine started.

posted 11-18-2008 11:44 AM ET (US)            

That's not to say that I wouldn't purchase towing insurance coverage if it were available and reasonably priced. I'd sure read the policy carefully, though, 'cause I'm used to dealing with insurance carriers on a daily basis, and know how good they are at gladly accepting those monthly payments and then declining coverage when needed, pursuant to some quirky policy language.

posted 11-18-2008 02:59 PM ET (US)            

Because I keep my boat at the boat yard I always carry a fully charged battery pack in the truck incase of emergency. Much cheaper than calling out one of the shops.(and much lighter than a battery.)

We dont have BoatUS or SeaTow but we do have Sea Start.

http://www.seastart.co.uk/

As you can see they will come to your berth or mooring, but this is reflected in their membership fees which start at about $250 PA

Their average response time is 45 minutes