posted 11-22-2008 11:31 AM ET (US)            

in any event, it seems like a noble cause. have fun with it. you might even make some $$ if you clean it up & sell it!

posted 11-22-2008 03:47 PM ET (US)            

Based on your description... this boat sounds like its in some hurtin condition. Anything can be restored and made nice again, but at what cost? The 2grand alone for this unknown condtion basket case is more then your going to be able to get for your '13.... and then you have a money pit of a project and maybe no boat to use for the sping.

posted 11-22-2008 10:39 PM ET (US)            

I have a 13 in good condition, and bought a 1973 19' in about the same condition as this one...maybe a little better. Long story short- I have put in $3k + for a new-to-me motor and new gas tank, new wiring, new leaning post...and I still haven't refurbised the bottom or gelcoat. Mine is seaworthy but needs more $$ and/or elbow grease to make it pretty. I think you will be in the same boat (pun intended) as I was, and if you can barely afford the $2k now...then you need to pass because you will surely be putting more $$ into it.

posted 11-23-2008 03:41 PM ET (US)            

I know that we wouldnt want to see him get in over his head, but think of the satisfaction he will get from bringing this Whaler back to life. When taking on a large project like this, it is like running a marathon, a LOT of hard work, and there is always some uncertainty if you will complete the task, but I feel that Austin is up to the challange. The satisfaction he will be able to take in this project when it is completed will stick with him for the rest of his life.

Austin, make sure the hull is sound and then I say go for it, maybe see if the seller will take $1,500, and then forge ahead.

Then, look for advice from members here on CW. I am sure that there are members that may even have a few spare parts laying around that they would be willing to contribute to your project.

As a parent of 3 children that always took on challenges, I know that this type of project can be so much more than just fixing up an old boat.

OK...anybody agree with me or am I nuts.

Oh..by the way Austin, I just bought a 1973 Outrage 19 that I will be working on soon, and if you go ahead with your project we can swap some hints and advice down the road.

Ray

posted 11-23-2008 04:17 PM ET (US)            

Actually,she doesn't look that bad.However,if you could get the price down would be great.

Btw,15 years old,and 6'2"? That's impressive!

posted 11-23-2008 04:28 PM ET (US)            

Put it in the water and pull all the plugs. If no water comes on to the deck then do not worry about the foam being saturated with water. Don't drill any holes in the hull. The boat will probably float like a cork--don't worry about a gallon or two of water than may be in with the foam. On the other hand, if the water comes up on the deck with the plugs out, sell the parts and forget about this project.

Take off the center console and the reversible pilot seat.

Remove the deck over the 40 gallon tank (it is screwed down).

If tank looks original, order a new one from Florida Marine Tanks, 305-620-9030 ($400?).

Remove the wood from the center console. Figure out an inexpensive way to replace or refinish the wood.

Sand all of the cracked gelcoat with 100 grit paper on a palm sander ($5).

Roll on two or three coats (i.e., one gallon) of Interlux Epoxy Primekote 404/414 ($100).

Roll on two or three coats of Easypoxy 3108 (off white) everywhere that is above the water line ($150).

Order two rubrail kits from Twin Cities Marine--one three-part kit will be just enough for a 16/17' hull so you will need two kits ($200).

posted 11-24-2008 01:23 AM ET (US)            

Being only 6' and my knees just fitting behind the console on my 13', I can appreciate you wanting something bigger!

Good luck.

posted 11-24-2008 04:19 AM ET (US)         

Are you really asking "should I buy"? If so the majority of experienced owners are saying no. A quart of gel coat costs $70.00. That boat looks like you could dump $300.00 just on cleaning supplies.

The owner will not get $2000.00 for that boat ever. The motor is worth zero. The trailer $600, the hull maybe $600.00. The cracks in the hull are serious. I have seen much older Whalers with less or no cracks in the hull. They happen for a reason. My guess is water in the foam that expanded and contacted during winter freezes and spring thaws.In your estimate to get the boat ship shape you have to consider re-powering due to the year of the motor. Even if you bought a used reliable 90-115hp you are looking at $2000-4000 at least. Another $200 to hang it on the transom. You want to put it on a mooring, well $200.00 for the bottom paint alone. New bilge pump $30.00, battery $80.00.

posted 11-26-2008 08:04 PM ET (US)            

I would likely buy the boat, for you at 15 to be considering it is impressive. As one other member said, the trailer is worth close to $1000, other parts on the boat are worth money.

What you have to consider is the fact that you are currently on the water in a boat perfect for a 15 year old. If you beach it on purpose or not, you can get it off easily.

Would you moor the 19 or launch it each time??

Does the trim on the motor work, are there receipts for the work done on it?? Can you talk to the dude who last worked on it??

I have done plenty of wood boats and a few whalers (I brought hull number 710 back to life with much of the same work you face.

You also gotta remember young blood that the weight of the 19 is going to require a lot more force to jockey around, whether you are simply moving it or trying to work on the bottom.

Looks like a lot of dirt which is holding moisture, but you, as all of us would not be surprised or discouraged by the results you get fro a couple days of cleaning/powerwashing and elbow grease.

Look for soft spots, do not worry too much about the cracks.

You need to know more about the engine.

Good luck in your decision, if you go for it, you should have it in the water by the 4th of July. Can you barter for a lower price and do some non-related work for the seller on his property or house?? Something to look into.

Good luck "G"

posted 11-30-2008 12:10 PM ET (US)            

GO FOR IT

witsendfl

posted 12-03-2008 08:36 PM ET (US)            

If you look at figure #8, #9, #10, and #11 in my article below you will see I used a steel rod to put holes all over the place in the foam around my fuel tank. I did this as I thought it would help to dry out the wet foam.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore.html

There was so much water in there that it started to pool around the rod as I forced it down. The surface was dry to the touch however, if you stuck your figure in the hole it was moist.

The day after though, the holes felt completely DRY when you stuck your finger in there. I thought "Great, it is working like a charm." I had the dehumidifier running to help dry out the foam and even tented the hull and ran it in hopes of drying the cavity out completely. (see image 36 in link below) I thought it was working great as every last hole felt dry. Now came the time when I wanted to remove some foam from behind the tank to create a sump pick up area. Using a putty knife on a boom handle (image #45) I slid the knife in the foam and water gushed out of the surrounding holes. In images #47 and #48 you can see the standing water in there. While no where near the surface the water was still in there. Because the foam does not wick the water the foam that was exposed always felt dry. We wet-vaced over 5 gallons of water out of there before it stopped flooding back in the void. After that we only dry about a 1/2 gallon resurface.

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/outrageRestore2.html

posted 12-04-2008 02:37 AM ET (US)            

Im on my second restoration of a worn out Whaler hull. Cleaning up the hull has not been a big cost issue, I agree with yours and others cost estimates.

All that work is wasted time if you dont have a reliable motor.

In both my projects I have underestimated the value of a good used motor...substantially.
I think you better figure a new motor with all the fixins is gonna cost you $12k. OK? This may be low.
I have also underestimated the time I could dedicate to the project, you seem to have that covered, go for it.

A good running used Merc to plug n play your existing harness is gonna cost you around 3 grand. Ok, give or take a few bucks.

Here is my point, you go talk to the owner, tell him to turn that motor over OR unhook it and leave it in his driveway. Im serious. Tell him all you want is the hull and trailer for $1500 unless the engine condition is diagnosed as close as possible. He wont bite or he would have already done that and raised the price. You might get lucky, but bad luck could cost you a lot of money, Figure the engine is best served as a anchor.

So, basically, you need to finance 1500 + 3k for a used motor or rebuild = $4.5k. Hey, thats not a bad deal. 1250 for the hull trailer is better. You are kidding yourself if you think you are going fishing for $2k. Hey, Im not a tight ass trying to screw the guy...these are real numbers.

If the engine is froze, if he balks to decrease his price, suggest to him politely, for $5k you can find a very decent boat/trailer that has a NICE engine that RUNS. Just go on craigs list, click boats under $5k. check it out. Dont argue or lie, tell the owner to check it out himself. It wont be a Whaler, but, no need to mention that.

Sounds like you have cash. Make sure he has a clear title. This is a very legitimate request, if he argues, something is wrong...walk away.

Good luck.

posted 12-04-2008 05:01 PM ET (US)            

I'm in my 30's and have owned 8 whalers from a 13-25....

My thoughts:

You get what you pay for...paying a little more will save you big $$$ in the long run.

Just adding some accessories like a t-top or stearn seat will cost you big $$$...nothing is a cheap solution.

If you can just hold out and find a boat that has everything you want on it, it will save you major $$$ and headaches. Totally agree with jeffs22outrage.

I also agree with Dan...buy a really good condition 80's Montauk...if you buy the right one, you can use it for years and sell if for the same $$$.

As for using the boat (ideas for down the road) I've: Trailered, dry-stacked, moored, and had a slip. My most favorite experience was dry stacked because they would put the boat out on bunks so you could work on it (which is fun for me) and it wouldn't sit in the water all season. If you do have engine issues, finding an engine mechanic that does work at the slip is tough and $$$.

posted 12-04-2008 07:57 PM ET (US)            

There are probably 5-10 gallons of water in your hull. It is not hurting anything. It has been there for years. If you got it out it would find its way back in.

posted 12-05-2008 12:08 PM ET (US)            

FYI, I bought a replacement 40 gallon tank for my 1977 Outrage 21 from Florida Marine Tank two months ago, and it cost $420.

posted 12-07-2008 12:59 PM ET (US)            

I then would probably see if I could get the engine going. When you get to the point of getting it into the water, or "knowing" that she will be be ok in the water(I Bet she will), then you can look at your options for internal tank replacements. I know some of these marine plastic tank companies have gone out of business, but I would be surprised if you could not find something that will fot in the fuel tank cavity, that wasn't much more reasonably priced than some of these estimates I've seen here.

posted 12-08-2008 11:40 PM ET (US)            

Clean it up, rewire it, get it running, use deck tanks for the first season & start enjoying it. This boat is perfect for running offshore up here.

My tanks failed 2 years ago, still running deck tanks on my outrage 21, probably will forever. So many other/better things to spend the cash on.

posted 12-09-2008 01:26 AM ET (US)            

I also ended up buying a 1973 Whaler 19 a few weeks ago and am looking forward to getting her in shape. I just need to pick her up...it is 450 miles away, and I dont have a few days free until January.

I will be following your posts closely knowing that in January I will be digging into my new boat.

posted 04-22-2009 09:14 PM ET (US)            

Just to wrap it up, aka final questions.

-what would make the engine not get spark? Is it because no ignition was used?

-What could be done with the empty space not occupied by the belly tank?

-Is marine-tex a good epoxy to use for filling holes, chips, cracks, etc?

-Are PVC pipes epoxied in instead of brass tubes a good idea?

-A good reliable place to buy wire for a bargin.

-What AWG wire should be used for lights, electronics, other general items needing electrical power?

posted 04-22-2009 11:53 PM ET (US)         

These guys really know Mercs. Most are old racer types

I think this is a great thing your doing. I bought my own boat with my own money too, when I was 15, back in 1953. I'm still working on them. Busy kids never get in trouble. It keeps me out of trouble.

If your Merc craps out, consider picking up a 4 cylinder Chrysler. A good fresh water one cost about $500-700. Some won`t believe it but they are great motors and simple to work on, parts are really cheap. They got a bad rap because of their inferior electronic CDI system that's expensive to replace. They can be converted over to battery ignition for the cost of an automotive coil $25 and a couple of hours of work, changing wires around. I run a 3 or 4 cylinder Chrysler on my race boat with a racing Chrysler mid section and grarcase. I can swap powerheads in a few hours.

Good luck with your project, leave the video games to others, what your doing is more fun.

posted 04-23-2009 11:49 AM ET (US)            

Some advice---

"Your future depends on the quality of your decisions...."

"Don't fall in love with something that can't love you back...."

Boats are like buses, miss this one, another will come along.However, every once-in-awhile one comes up that is incredible and you must not flinch, like we did with the Outrage 17, but we have been waiting for the right boat and the right time for three or four years. For you that's equivalent of HS time or college degree.

I am sure the Whaler pals who posted to your thread will keep an eye out for a good project boat for you RIGHT GUYS????

How awesome, and who says all kids do is skateboard and play video games???

posted 04-25-2009 11:47 AM ET (US)            

When I was 11 I got my first 13 it was sitting in a field; a tree had actually grown between the railing and the gunwale. A small branch grew between the spokes of the steering wheel. I asked the guy about it and he said if I could get out of his back yard that I could have it for free. Somehow I managed to ask (with my jaw lying on the ground) if I could cut the 25' tree down and he said sure. I ran home, my heart pounding out of my chest. My mom came running out wondering what was wrong startled by the crash of my dad’s tool chest as it to the garage floor. I grabbed the only saw I could find, and ran back to rescue my blue decked princess. Can you imagine what it's like to cut down a 6" diameter tree with a dull hack saw?
I think I hacked at that tree for over 2 hours, my hand was so sore, it was bleeding but eventually she was free and she was mine! It was the happiest day of my life. It looked worse than your project, but to me it was the most beautiful thing in the world. “Mary” as I pronounced her had been used for target practice at some point. (I later found a couple 12 gauge slugs and a number of .22s buried deep inside her; Mary had 37 bullet holes in her 13 feet, most passing clean through.) She had a Mercury short shaft that was not running. The guy towed it home for me, and gave me the registrations for the boat and trailer. The trailer had a flat tire and he towed it at 5 mph or so the mile and a half to my house. I was beaming. My mom was not! Hehe…

My friends and I somehow got the engine off the boat and got it into his wagon. We planned to pull in to a couple marinas a few miles away hoping that maybe we could find someone who could help us out to get it running. The first couple guys at one place thought we were nuts, but at the second marina the Mechanic put it on his bench and looked her over. He asked us about how we got to his door with the engine and we told him about the whole experience. I remember him scratching his head (probably in disbelief) and he asked if he could talk to my mom first. I gave him our telephone number and he went to call her. A few minutes later, he came out and said he worked out a deal with my mom that if I cut his grass throughout the summer till school started in the fall, he would repair the engine for me (as long as my mom agreed to pay him for his work if I didn’t follow through every week). He put a couple hundred bucks in parts and his time into it and I cut his grass once a week from June through the end of August. A few days later, He drove over and delivered the engine to our house. I hooked the hose up to my dad’s “earmuffs” and we pulled the cord. The engine started and ran great on the first pull!

I did odd jobs to keep her in gas and oil and used her well over 100 days a year until I was 16 when I finally sold her. By that time, I had painstakingly repaired and gel coated the hull, and completely re-wired it. I rebuilt every fastener point and when I was 14 I managed to trade a summer of lawn cutting again with my woodworking teacher at school who crafted a complete new side console and seats that we designed. His craftsmanship far exceeded the value of my lawn cutting, but for him it was a chance to help out an impassioned kid. I wish I had pictures to show you what she looked like when I finally sold her some years back. The old-growth Honduran Mahogany woodwork was finished with I believe potassium dichromate giving it an incredible golden glow in the sun. It had Black Ebony inlays in the console! She was a beauty.

posted 04-25-2009 03:43 PM ET (US)            

Second, it was almost three years ago that I was standing in my own 1973 Outrage 19 (Hull ID No. 00021) which was in rougher shape than Austin's in some respects. But while looking at her I did not see only what she was, but what she COULD BECOME... That's the driving force in any restoration project.

Thrid, to address some of Austin's questions:

Marine Tex is great stuff, but you need to keep in mind that gelcoat does not stick very well to it. So if you are using this for small repairs which will ultimately be painted over, or to repair worn out screw holes, etc., it is fine.

As for the space remaining when the tank is removed, bearing in mind that this is temporary fix, I think you might consider filling it with some packing foam shot into plastic bags. My reasoning is that you want to keep that space from becoming filled with water after you have put the floor back down.

As for the marine grade wiring, a good source for Ancor marine wire at reasonable prices is Menards hardware, if you have one near you. They sell the same Ancor spools for much less than West Marine. If you search this site, there are some other brands and suppliers of marine grade wire which others have used with success, too.

The gauge of the wire depends on the Amps being drawn by the device and the length of the run between the power source and the device. This is a bit complicated, but there are charts available which will help you determine what is appropriate given these variables. Having said that, many people will use 10AWG to bring power from the battery to a distribution panel (breaker panel or fuse block) in the console. I used 4AWG from the battery to the console to provide an extra measure of protection. Whatever you use, make sure to protect any runs from the battery going through the rigging tunnel with a fuse or breaker somewhere close to the battery.

Most devices will need 14 to 18 AWG running from the distribution panel to each device. I used duplex wires to supply the lights. Ancor also sells a triplex red/black/brown wire for the bilge pump. I would suggest using duplex or triplex wires when doing runs through the rigging tunnel to keep things as neat and protected as possible in that tight space.

Good luck and keep us posted with your progress.

Tony

posted 05-18-2009 11:09 PM ET (US)            

-I have decided to use deck tanks. I re-installed/sealed the deck panel in place.

-I fixed the Bow eye area with white marine tex, it looks pretty good too.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk194/Austin-Whaler/ Boat%20before%20restoration/HPIM1116.jpg

-Re-installed the rps legs and cushion.

-I have removed and stripped 50% of the wood in the boat.

-Installed pvc pipe in some of the rotted out drains.(temporary, I found a through hull that had a tighter fit)

-Currently designing a forward dodger, that I will hopefully be ablee to make.