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Author Topic:   Mercury BIG TILLER

glen e posted 12-03-2008 07:49 AM ET (US)
I assume [the intended market of the Mercury BIG TILLER is] the walleye crowd--power steering on a tiller!
[Initially Glen posted a URI where you could find a picture of the following text. Because we abhor pictures of text and much prefer text to be represented as text instead of pictures of text, I have replaced the picture of the text with the actual text--jimh]
BIG TILLER
Mercury's New "Big Tiller" incorporated upgraded features and designs as well as the first production power steering system that makes tiller steering as effortless as steering your car or truck.
The product incorporates a new valve and linkage system that opens with the movement of the handle in either direction allowing hyrdraulic fluid to flow through the manifold and into the cylinder. This eliminates the torque typically created when the engine is running and the propeller is turning. The system can be adjusted to allow for customer preferences and different weather conditions with the touch of the fingers. The system has a bypass valve designed to allow manual steering of the handle when system and engine are not running.
Mercury's New BIG TILLER has three versions:
Mechanical throttle and shift without power steering--1.5-Liter OptiMax (75-115), and 1.7-Liter L-4 FourStroke (75-115)
Mechanical throttle and shift with power steering--1.5-Liter Optimax (75-115), 2.5-Liter OptiMax (135-175), 3.0-Liter OptiMax (200-250), 1.7 Liter L-4 FourStroke (75-115)
DTS with power steering--L-4 FourStroke Verado (135-200), 3.0-Liter OptiMax DTS (200-225)

hauptjm posted 12-03-2008 03:02 PM ET (US)
Another thread from last month where these beast were mentioned: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017012.html
I'm not sure I'd want to handle one of these. Anyone used something this big with a tiller?
fourdfish posted 12-03-2008 04:09 PM ET (US)
OLD NEWS- Not a big market for this setup.
glen e posted 12-03-2008 04:30 PM ET (US)
Fordy for once, just shut up. It's not "old news".This is the first time I have seen it, not just "mentioned", but with interesting details on power steering on a tiller and DTS. In a DOCUMENT from Merc. And it's not a "small market" to the walleye crowd....
fourdfish posted 12-03-2008 05:22 PM ET (US)
You know Glen E, Your stupidity is only matched by your good manners. It is your dream to shut me up!
We talked about this here before. If you knew anything about Walleye fishing, you would know that only a few unusual
characters would use a large tiller engine like that.
NO MARKET!
Buckda posted 12-03-2008 05:38 PM ET (US)
I still don't understand why they're targeting "walleye fishing" for this motor.
Yes, I often backtroll a small aluminum boat when walleye fishing in Canada.
Is this tiller system used in conjunction with the standard steering wheel system for go-fast Walleye boats (aka modified bass boats) so the anglers can move to the back of the boat and backtroll when they're at the fishing destination?
That's the only thing I can think of. I think many of these guys today are using an electric trolling motor to accomplish this (or a kicker motor).
I can see a market for this in the Caribbean - where tiller-steered Panga boats are operated from the beach and utilize fairly large motors.
I just can't see backtrolling a 225 HP motor when fishing - it would be easier/more convenient to use the trolling motor.
FYI - Backtrolling provides more precise maneuvering when working rock piles and drop offs along windward points - which is common in Walleye fishing.
I don't do it much (if at all) in my Whaler - it is just not conducive to that kind of operation. Small aluminum skiffs are ideal for this kind of fishing. (think 16 ft. Lund with a flat bottom insert)
fourdfish posted 12-03-2008 05:49 PM ET (US)
Maybe Brunswick is going to put out a boat to match the engine. OR maybe they are going to try to sell them to the pirates.
jeffs22outrage posted 12-03-2008 05:52 PM ET (US)
I think the Somali pirates are going to snatching these up like hotcakes!
DeeVee posted 12-03-2008 08:47 PM ET (US)
Many guides on the Columbia River use high horsepower tiller engines, although with jet pump drive, not prop drive. These boats can fish 2 to 4 people in addition to the guide, depending on the fishing method. The boats are usually very shallow or slightly Vee'd aluminum hulls in the 20 to 24 foot class
roloaddict posted 12-03-2008 10:15 PM ET (US)
A friend of a friend uses a 250, de-rated with the pump to 200, 2S Merc on his 24 foot Alumaweld Super Vee. It is a monster. The torque on engine start moves the tiller about 30 degrees. He is a big guy at about 6'3", 220lb, and gets a work out. The motor stands about 3/4 as tall as he does. He out runs a 14 foot Starcraft with a 70 Evenrude by a clear margin.
fourdfish posted 12-03-2008 10:27 PM ET (US)
I assume they are not walleye fishing in the Columbia River.
So DeeVee, Since this is a prop engine, approximately how many engines with this set up will Merc sell to these fishermen.
jimh posted 12-03-2008 11:36 PM ET (US)
A 250-HP engine has limited application in the classic Boston Whaler boat, and when you make it a tiller-steering motor, it almost seems like there is no application.
There must be some market for it, otherwise I doubt that Mercury would be spending the research and development to bring this product to market. But they won't be selling them to many classic Boston Whaler boat owners.
towboater posted 12-04-2008 01:57 AM ET (US)
I concure with DeeVee, tiller motors are prefered by Columbia River Guides and serious sporties on wide alum hulls. I know several who run props. The main reason for a Tiller is offering more space for passenger$...regardless what they are trying to catch.
Some of the custom tiller handles are pretty cool. Operate standing up, electric shift, throttle, start, stop all there, one hand.

Peter posted 12-04-2008 07:31 AM ET (US)
Can't wait to see a "trip" big tiller rig on one of those South Florida 35 foot go-fast center consoles. No doubt that all of the ladies at the seaside bar will surely be attracted to the guy who pulls up and demonstrates how he can handle a "big tiller". I predict that this will be the ultimate "look-at-me" set up in SF, surpassing quad powered "look-at-me" CCs. ;)
fishgutz posted 12-04-2008 08:34 AM ET (US)
Peter, I'd be more impressed with a woman that can handle a big tiller. Something about women running boats does it for me.
Peter posted 12-04-2008 09:56 AM ET (US)
Perhaps I should have said "has" instead of "can handle". ;)
themclos posted 12-04-2008 01:38 PM ET (US)
I, for one, think a classic 17 foot hull, outfitted with a 75 HP or 95HP Mercury Optimax with tiller steering, would make a great fishing boat.
Remove the console from a Montauk and install 3 bench seats, and you have a great, safe platform with lots of fishing room.
Dan
Buckda posted 12-04-2008 06:36 PM ET (US)
Dan -
I agree with you - I think that would make a nice river rig.
I'm not suprised by motors in the 70-90 HP range with tiller steer options; but I am suprised to see a motor of 200 HP with a tiller steer..
...unless it has the tiller steer as a "second station" and is, under normal circumstances and at high speed, operated via a standard helm station.
200 HP drives bass boats into the upper 60 MPH range and beyond. Tiller steering at that speed doesn't seem to make much sense - although, with the electro-mechanical power steering available on the VERADO, the problem of steering torque would be minimized/eliminated.
I find this product expansion/offering very intriguing. If anyone has definitive information on the intended use/market for this motor, I'd be interested to learn about it.
RJG posted 12-04-2008 06:50 PM ET (US)
How about a large sight seeing boat or maybe a small ferry. We have several water taxis around Jacksonville on the St. Johns River. Most of the taxis are pontoons running twin 90 Hondas but in a different configuration it could work. I think a large, heavy sight seeing boat would be a good application for a 200hp tiller.
DeeVee posted 12-04-2008 08:07 PM ET (US)
fourdfish,
There may be some of these guides fishing for walleye on the Columbia. I am usually fishing for salmon in the areas where I see the large aluminum guide boats, so I assume they are fishing for the same salmon I am.
I have never bought a jet pump drive outboard, however I have spoken to a few people that have. These engines were sold with prop lower units and jet pumps were then fitted. I have assumed it is sort of an OEM approved aftermarket installation.
Some people keep the prop lower units on a shelf and some sell them.
I have no idea approximately how many people would be in the market for a 250 HP tiller controlled engine or approximately how many engines Mercury expects to sell. It may be better to ask Mercury that question.
As has been said before, there must be a reason to go through the expense to develope it.
Doug
Peter posted 12-04-2008 08:18 PM ET (US)
Seriously....here is a link to an interesting and detail rich article by Charles Plueddeman about Mercury's "big tiller". www.boats.com/news-reviews/article/ outboard-expert-mercury-marine-big-tiller .
fourdfish posted 12-04-2008 10:19 PM ET (US)
You know you can always count on Peter to find the info!
It seems Mercury did not develop them but bought the rights to them.
There you go, according to that article DeeVee was correct
about one market for these tillers!
Maybe the guides make enough money to fork up an extra
$2500-$3000 for the power tillers. I would think that most of
these would be custom ordered with maybe a few dealers stocking one. Not really much of a market here and with this economy poor timing.
jimh posted 12-04-2008 11:15 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the link to the one-year-old article that announced this product. Yes, I do seem to recall hearing about this a year ago. Mercury purchased the exclusive rights to the invention. I guess you won't see it on other brands.
jimh posted 12-04-2008 11:51 PM ET (US)
ASIDE: There are two reasons why text is preferred to be presented as text instead of presenting pictures of the text. First, the size of the data is much smaller when text is presented as text. Taking pictures of text and transmitting them as images, even when compression is used, results in much higher bandwidths. Second, text presented as an image of text cannot be effectively searched or indexed. When text is presented as text, it is much more effectively indexed and searched.
erik selis posted 12-05-2008 03:22 AM ET (US)
Dan, check out my buddy Dirk's 17-ft Alert with 60-hp, Mercury EFI. It's amazing how much fishing room there is on this boat. We mainly use it for Walleye fishing. We back-troll all the time using the electro-motor mounted on the transom,like Dave described.
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/erik069/17_Alert%20Dirk/ ?albumview=grid

A big 250 tiller engine would scare me a bit. Not used to something like that although I can imagine that you can make a huge fishing platform out of a 22-footer without a console in the way. I think holding on to something would be the most difficult.
Erik
glen e posted 12-05-2008 04:22 AM ET (US)
that and jim can't stand links to others sites...don't really understand that - Jim (or anyone else) is completely ok to post links on my site that lead back here....
fourdfish posted 12-05-2008 07:27 AM ET (US)
So there you go glen, OLD news which you did not hear about!
Peter posted 12-05-2008 07:56 AM ET (US)
I believe that the link following below is the patent for the "big tiller" invention which Mercury has licensed. See patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1& u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,715,438.PN.&OS=PN/ 6,715,438&RS=PN/6,715,438 .
jimh posted 12-05-2008 09:22 AM ET (US)
The April Point Lodge in British Columbia has a fleet of 17-foot Boston Whaler boats with tiller-steered outboard motors. Their guides sit in the stern and run the motor via a tiller, leaving the rest of the boat for the guests to fish from.
The Mercury literature (see above) is a bit confusing in its mention of "without power steering" in the application guide. The BIG TILLER is a power steering device, so when added to models that did not already have power steering, it provides it. When added to the larger models that already have power steering, it apparently adapts to the power steering already there.
ASIDE to Glen: there are only four mentions of CONTINUOUSWAVE on your website VERADOCLUB. Two of them are mentions from people replying to a discussion of "How did you find this website?" where the respondent says he found VERADOCLUB because Glen posted a notice about it on CONTINUOUSWAVE. Another mention is from Glen complaining that in another case of where a picture of text was posted, the text has been transcribed back to text and provided at CONTINUOUSWAVE, the precise same thing done here. Incidentally, the picture of the text in that discussion has been removed, so the information has been lost on VERADOCLUB but maintained here. The other mention is a link to the propeller calculator here. None of the mentions of CONTINUOUSWAVE on VERADOCLUB are from articles posted by me.
In contrast there are 75 mentions of VERADOCLUB on this website. This should make clear that there are twenty times as many chances for CONTINOUSWAVE to send people to VERADO CLUB as the other way.
jimh posted 12-05-2008 09:48 AM ET (US)
Peter--Thanks for the link to the patent. That is great information about the BIG TILLER.
towboater posted 12-05-2008 12:20 PM ET (US)
Dave Buckda, link is a example of a typical Columbia River guide boat that would handle the 250 tiller setup.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/940230400.html
Very few Col river Guides are licenced for Ocean fishing with this type of boat. You can bet, each seat locker has a full set of raingear inside for passengers to wear going to or from, rain or shine if there is any chop at all.
Eric, that 17 setup is pretty sweet.
Ive considered a tiller motor/prop and similar seating arrangement as the guide boat for my Guardian but the nice thing about the BW console, for me, is being able to custom fit the seat level to save wear and tear on my poor ol back rather than standing or sitting with a tiller. Anybody shopping for used golf clubs?
mk

Buckda posted 12-05-2008 03:03 PM ET (US)
Thanks for that Mike - I guess I really had no idea that there was a market for large, tiller steered outboards.
Such a narrow mind on this midwest boy!
Dave
jimh posted 12-07-2008 10:26 AM ET (US)
Here is a review of the Mercury BIG TILLER with photographs:
http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boat-review/2960293.aspx
This article appeared several months ago.
soggy bottom boy posted 12-07-2008 11:06 AM ET (US)
Erik
That is a nice Alert! I like the set-up. Pass on the kudos to your buddy.
Soggy.
number9 posted 12-11-2008 07:01 PM ET (US)
I checked out Peter's link to the patent.
It surprises me the the safety issue of tiller steering wasn't mentioned. One of the biggest drawbacks to using a tiller is possibility of losing control of a fast running boat if a submerged object is hit and deflects the lower unit. Imagine having a 4' tiller kicking back and smacking you in your side just prior to ejection into the cold water.
It would be interesting to see what approach/direction the USCG might eventually take on the maximum HP ratings on assisted tiller steer powered vessels in the future. A manufacturer such as Carolina Skiff and it's customers could benefit from some certification changes.

themclos posted 12-11-2008 09:57 PM ET (US)
Eric,
That is a great setup on the Alert. As we have read from several people on this site, a 50HP or 60HP 4-stroke engine on a 17' hull makes for one very fuel efficient setup.
Dan
themclos posted 12-12-2008 11:13 AM ET (US)
Erik,
Sorry for the typo. The least I can do is spell your name correctly.
Dan
lurkynot posted 12-12-2008 11:22 AM ET (US)
"Fordy for once, just shut up."
I have seen this glen e user id on other sites and have observed the same tone or overtones.
Just an observation.
Clark Roberts posted 12-22-2008 09:27 AM ET (US)
I have 3 13 Whalers with tiller steering set-up and the handling is superb. The ride is improved also due to the extreme aft helm location. I recently converted a 1996 Merc tiller 40hp Sea Pro to electric start and trim and tilt with all controls on tiller handle (except for key switch which I located on front of motor pan. I test ran it yesterday on one of my 13s and everything works very good but way, way too much power for the 13. Now I need a bare hull 17 which should be perfect (top speed should be around 30mph or a little more).
Clark Roberts posted 12-22-2008 09:27 AM ET (US)
I have 3 13 Whalers with tiller steering set-up and the handling is superb. The ride is improved also due to the extreme aft helm location. I recently converted a 1996 Merc tiller 40hp Sea Pro to electric start and trim and tilt with all controls on tiller handle (except for key switch which I located on front of motor pan. I test ran it yesterday on one of my 13s and everything works very good but way, way too much power for the 13. Now I need a bare hull 17 which should be perfect (top speed should be around 30mph or a little more).
glen e posted 12-22-2008 10:15 AM ET (US)
Lurky -
Put a sock in it..I'm a big "troll" all right - do a search on Fourdy's posts if you want to see some crap..He's Jim's lapdog here. As far as mine are concerned, don't read 'em.
fourdfish posted 12-22-2008 11:15 AM ET (US)
lurky--- glen e has his own web site! He just comes here to cause problems! I never go over to his site, so what does that tell you! He is consistently bashing JimH and others here for no good reason. Have a Merry Christmas!
lurkynot posted 12-23-2008 01:50 PM ET (US)
I have seen this guy in action on other sites. So rude and to put up with that.
Do not know about you guys but my momma always used to say run do not walk away from people like that so they get the social misfit hint if they have not already done so by now.
Enough said. Point made, hopefully taken.
glen e posted 12-23-2008 04:40 PM ET (US)
show me another site where I'm crude and crass...I don't ever start it and I've got to be attacked before I issue any type of comeback. As for Fourdy - ask a few others here.He deserves it in spades.Find one of his comments calling me and others "gay".Unacceptable and I never jump his posts.
please cite another site....frankly I think you're an alias....
fourdfish posted 12-23-2008 04:46 PM ET (US)
Actually, glen got in a fight with Wiley and got kicked off
THT! No surprise there. He jumped one guy he didn't know here who just asked a legit question with all kinds of names!
If the shoe fits wear it glen! Crass, rude and uneducated!!!!!
BTW all you have to do is check his profile!
glen e posted 12-23-2008 08:57 PM ET (US)
A TOTAL LIE....GO ASK WYLIE THAT....don't fabricate stuff to make your point..I left for other reasons...when IB took over I came back...you truly are an idiot....
fourdfish posted 12-23-2008 09:26 PM ET (US)
The truth hurts!
lurkynot posted 12-25-2008 10:55 AM ET (US)
Not an alias, been an active posting member to this site for several years if not several a few at least.
As to the citing the other sites I will grab a few of your quotes if need be. Not sure where that will end up.
I do not want to get into a tussel with you since it was just an observation of mine about your responses to others on this site and one other site I frequent.
If I had to put a finger on it it would be your tone, very cross, combative perhaps.
Anyway it is Christmas Day - happy holidays to all of you.

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Author	Topic: Mercury BIG TILLER
glen e	posted 12-03-2008 07:49 AM ET (US) I assume [the intended market of the Mercury BIG TILLER is] the walleye crowd--power steering on a tiller! [Initially Glen posted a URI where you could find a picture of the following text. Because we abhor pictures of text and much prefer text to be represented as text instead of pictures of text, I have replaced the picture of the text with the actual text--jimh] BIG TILLER Mercury's New "Big Tiller" incorporated upgraded features and designs as well as the first production power steering system that makes tiller steering as effortless as steering your car or truck. The product incorporates a new valve and linkage system that opens with the movement of the handle in either direction allowing hyrdraulic fluid to flow through the manifold and into the cylinder. This eliminates the torque typically created when the engine is running and the propeller is turning. The system can be adjusted to allow for customer preferences and different weather conditions with the touch of the fingers. The system has a bypass valve designed to allow manual steering of the handle when system and engine are not running. Mercury's New BIG TILLER has three versions: Mechanical throttle and shift without power steering--1.5-Liter OptiMax (75-115), and 1.7-Liter L-4 FourStroke (75-115) Mechanical throttle and shift with power steering--1.5-Liter Optimax (75-115), 2.5-Liter OptiMax (135-175), 3.0-Liter OptiMax (200-250), 1.7 Liter L-4 FourStroke (75-115) DTS with power steering--L-4 FourStroke Verado (135-200), 3.0-Liter OptiMax DTS (200-225)
hauptjm	posted 12-03-2008 03:02 PM ET (US) Another thread from last month where these beast were mentioned: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/017012.html I'm not sure I'd want to handle one of these. Anyone used something this big with a tiller?
fourdfish	posted 12-03-2008 04:09 PM ET (US) OLD NEWS- Not a big market for this setup.
glen e	posted 12-03-2008 04:30 PM ET (US) Fordy for once, just shut up. It's not "old news".This is the first time I have seen it, not just "mentioned", but with interesting details on power steering on a tiller and DTS. In a DOCUMENT from Merc. And it's not a "small market" to the walleye crowd....
fourdfish	posted 12-03-2008 05:22 PM ET (US) You know Glen E, Your stupidity is only matched by your good manners. It is your dream to shut me up! We talked about this here before. If you knew anything about Walleye fishing, you would know that only a few unusual characters would use a large tiller engine like that. NO MARKET!
Buckda	posted 12-03-2008 05:38 PM ET (US) I still don't understand why they're targeting "walleye fishing" for this motor. Yes, I often backtroll a small aluminum boat when walleye fishing in Canada. Is this tiller system used in conjunction with the standard steering wheel system for go-fast Walleye boats (aka modified bass boats) so the anglers can move to the back of the boat and backtroll when they're at the fishing destination? That's the only thing I can think of. I think many of these guys today are using an electric trolling motor to accomplish this (or a kicker motor). I can see a market for this in the Caribbean - where tiller-steered Panga boats are operated from the beach and utilize fairly large motors. I just can't see backtrolling a 225 HP motor when fishing - it would be easier/more convenient to use the trolling motor. FYI - Backtrolling provides more precise maneuvering when working rock piles and drop offs along windward points - which is common in Walleye fishing. I don't do it much (if at all) in my Whaler - it is just not conducive to that kind of operation. Small aluminum skiffs are ideal for this kind of fishing. (think 16 ft. Lund with a flat bottom insert)
fourdfish	posted 12-03-2008 05:49 PM ET (US) Maybe Brunswick is going to put out a boat to match the engine. OR maybe they are going to try to sell them to the pirates.
jeffs22outrage	posted 12-03-2008 05:52 PM ET (US) I think the Somali pirates are going to snatching these up like hotcakes!
DeeVee	posted 12-03-2008 08:47 PM ET (US) Many guides on the Columbia River use high horsepower tiller engines, although with jet pump drive, not prop drive. These boats can fish 2 to 4 people in addition to the guide, depending on the fishing method. The boats are usually very shallow or slightly Vee'd aluminum hulls in the 20 to 24 foot class
roloaddict	posted 12-03-2008 10:15 PM ET (US) A friend of a friend uses a 250, de-rated with the pump to 200, 2S Merc on his 24 foot Alumaweld Super Vee. It is a monster. The torque on engine start moves the tiller about 30 degrees. He is a big guy at about 6'3", 220lb, and gets a work out. The motor stands about 3/4 as tall as he does. He out runs a 14 foot Starcraft with a 70 Evenrude by a clear margin.
fourdfish	posted 12-03-2008 10:27 PM ET (US) I assume they are not walleye fishing in the Columbia River. So DeeVee, Since this is a prop engine, approximately how many engines with this set up will Merc sell to these fishermen.
jimh	posted 12-03-2008 11:36 PM ET (US) A 250-HP engine has limited application in the classic Boston Whaler boat, and when you make it a tiller-steering motor, it almost seems like there is no application. There must be some market for it, otherwise I doubt that Mercury would be spending the research and development to bring this product to market. But they won't be selling them to many classic Boston Whaler boat owners.
towboater	posted 12-04-2008 01:57 AM ET (US) I concure with DeeVee, tiller motors are prefered by Columbia River Guides and serious sporties on wide alum hulls. I know several who run props. The main reason for a Tiller is offering more space for passenger$...regardless what they are trying to catch. Some of the custom tiller handles are pretty cool. Operate standing up, electric shift, throttle, start, stop all there, one hand.
Peter	posted 12-04-2008 07:31 AM ET (US) Can't wait to see a "trip" big tiller rig on one of those South Florida 35 foot go-fast center consoles. No doubt that all of the ladies at the seaside bar will surely be attracted to the guy who pulls up and demonstrates how he can handle a "big tiller". I predict that this will be the ultimate "look-at-me" set up in SF, surpassing quad powered "look-at-me" CCs. ;)
fishgutz	posted 12-04-2008 08:34 AM ET (US) Peter, I'd be more impressed with a woman that can handle a big tiller. Something about women running boats does it for me.
Peter	posted 12-04-2008 09:56 AM ET (US) Perhaps I should have said "has" instead of "can handle". ;)
themclos	posted 12-04-2008 01:38 PM ET (US) I, for one, think a classic 17 foot hull, outfitted with a 75 HP or 95HP Mercury Optimax with tiller steering, would make a great fishing boat. Remove the console from a Montauk and install 3 bench seats, and you have a great, safe platform with lots of fishing room. Dan
Buckda	posted 12-04-2008 06:36 PM ET (US) Dan - I agree with you - I think that would make a nice river rig. I'm not suprised by motors in the 70-90 HP range with tiller steer options; but I am suprised to see a motor of 200 HP with a tiller steer.. ...unless it has the tiller steer as a "second station" and is, under normal circumstances and at high speed, operated via a standard helm station. 200 HP drives bass boats into the upper 60 MPH range and beyond. Tiller steering at that speed doesn't seem to make much sense - although, with the electro-mechanical power steering available on the VERADO, the problem of steering torque would be minimized/eliminated. I find this product expansion/offering very intriguing. If anyone has definitive information on the intended use/market for this motor, I'd be interested to learn about it.
RJG	posted 12-04-2008 06:50 PM ET (US) How about a large sight seeing boat or maybe a small ferry. We have several water taxis around Jacksonville on the St. Johns River. Most of the taxis are pontoons running twin 90 Hondas but in a different configuration it could work. I think a large, heavy sight seeing boat would be a good application for a 200hp tiller.
DeeVee	posted 12-04-2008 08:07 PM ET (US) fourdfish, There may be some of these guides fishing for walleye on the Columbia. I am usually fishing for salmon in the areas where I see the large aluminum guide boats, so I assume they are fishing for the same salmon I am. I have never bought a jet pump drive outboard, however I have spoken to a few people that have. These engines were sold with prop lower units and jet pumps were then fitted. I have assumed it is sort of an OEM approved aftermarket installation. Some people keep the prop lower units on a shelf and some sell them. I have no idea approximately how many people would be in the market for a 250 HP tiller controlled engine or approximately how many engines Mercury expects to sell. It may be better to ask Mercury that question. As has been said before, there must be a reason to go through the expense to develope it. Doug
Peter	posted 12-04-2008 08:18 PM ET (US) Seriously....here is a link to an interesting and detail rich article by Charles Plueddeman about Mercury's "big tiller". www.boats.com/news-reviews/article/ outboard-expert-mercury-marine-big-tiller .
fourdfish	posted 12-04-2008 10:19 PM ET (US) You know you can always count on Peter to find the info! It seems Mercury did not develop them but bought the rights to them. There you go, according to that article DeeVee was correct about one market for these tillers! Maybe the guides make enough money to fork up an extra $2500-$3000 for the power tillers. I would think that most of these would be custom ordered with maybe a few dealers stocking one. Not really much of a market here and with this economy poor timing.
jimh	posted 12-04-2008 11:15 PM ET (US) Thanks for the link to the one-year-old article that announced this product. Yes, I do seem to recall hearing about this a year ago. Mercury purchased the exclusive rights to the invention. I guess you won't see it on other brands.
jimh	posted 12-04-2008 11:51 PM ET (US) ASIDE: There are two reasons why text is preferred to be presented as text instead of presenting pictures of the text. First, the size of the data is much smaller when text is presented as text. Taking pictures of text and transmitting them as images, even when compression is used, results in much higher bandwidths. Second, text presented as an image of text cannot be effectively searched or indexed. When text is presented as text, it is much more effectively indexed and searched.
erik selis	posted 12-05-2008 03:22 AM ET (US) Dan, check out my buddy Dirk's 17-ft Alert with 60-hp, Mercury EFI. It's amazing how much fishing room there is on this boat. We mainly use it for Walleye fishing. We back-troll all the time using the electro-motor mounted on the transom,like Dave described. http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/erik069/17_Alert%20Dirk/ ?albumview=grid A big 250 tiller engine would scare me a bit. Not used to something like that although I can imagine that you can make a huge fishing platform out of a 22-footer without a console in the way. I think holding on to something would be the most difficult. Erik
glen e	posted 12-05-2008 04:22 AM ET (US) that and jim can't stand links to others sites...don't really understand that - Jim (or anyone else) is completely ok to post links on my site that lead back here....
fourdfish	posted 12-05-2008 07:27 AM ET (US) So there you go glen, OLD news which you did not hear about!
Peter	posted 12-05-2008 07:56 AM ET (US) I believe that the link following below is the patent for the "big tiller" invention which Mercury has licensed. See patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1& u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,715,438.PN.&OS=PN/ 6,715,438&RS=PN/6,715,438 .
jimh	posted 12-05-2008 09:22 AM ET (US) The April Point Lodge in British Columbia has a fleet of 17-foot Boston Whaler boats with tiller-steered outboard motors. Their guides sit in the stern and run the motor via a tiller, leaving the rest of the boat for the guests to fish from. The Mercury literature (see above) is a bit confusing in its mention of "without power steering" in the application guide. The BIG TILLER is a power steering device, so when added to models that did not already have power steering, it provides it. When added to the larger models that already have power steering, it apparently adapts to the power steering already there. ASIDE to Glen: there are only four mentions of CONTINUOUSWAVE on your website VERADOCLUB. Two of them are mentions from people replying to a discussion of "How did you find this website?" where the respondent says he found VERADOCLUB because Glen posted a notice about it on CONTINUOUSWAVE. Another mention is from Glen complaining that in another case of where a picture of text was posted, the text has been transcribed back to text and provided at CONTINUOUSWAVE, the precise same thing done here. Incidentally, the picture of the text in that discussion has been removed, so the information has been lost on VERADOCLUB but maintained here. The other mention is a link to the propeller calculator here. None of the mentions of CONTINUOUSWAVE on VERADOCLUB are from articles posted by me. In contrast there are 75 mentions of VERADOCLUB on this website. This should make clear that there are twenty times as many chances for CONTINOUSWAVE to send people to VERADO CLUB as the other way.
jimh	posted 12-05-2008 09:48 AM ET (US) Peter--Thanks for the link to the patent. That is great information about the BIG TILLER.
towboater	posted 12-05-2008 12:20 PM ET (US) Dave Buckda, link is a example of a typical Columbia River guide boat that would handle the 250 tiller setup. http://portland.craigslist.org/clc/boa/940230400.html Very few Col river Guides are licenced for Ocean fishing with this type of boat. You can bet, each seat locker has a full set of raingear inside for passengers to wear going to or from, rain or shine if there is any chop at all. Eric, that 17 setup is pretty sweet. Ive considered a tiller motor/prop and similar seating arrangement as the guide boat for my Guardian but the nice thing about the BW console, for me, is being able to custom fit the seat level to save wear and tear on my poor ol back rather than standing or sitting with a tiller. Anybody shopping for used golf clubs? mk
Buckda	posted 12-05-2008 03:03 PM ET (US) Thanks for that Mike - I guess I really had no idea that there was a market for large, tiller steered outboards. Such a narrow mind on this midwest boy! Dave
jimh	posted 12-07-2008 10:26 AM ET (US) Here is a review of the Mercury BIG TILLER with photographs: http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boat-review/2960293.aspx This article appeared several months ago.
soggy bottom boy	posted 12-07-2008 11:06 AM ET (US) Erik That is a nice Alert! I like the set-up. Pass on the kudos to your buddy. Soggy.
number9	posted 12-11-2008 07:01 PM ET (US) I checked out Peter's link to the patent. It surprises me the the safety issue of tiller steering wasn't mentioned. One of the biggest drawbacks to using a tiller is possibility of losing control of a fast running boat if a submerged object is hit and deflects the lower unit. Imagine having a 4' tiller kicking back and smacking you in your side just prior to ejection into the cold water. It would be interesting to see what approach/direction the USCG might eventually take on the maximum HP ratings on assisted tiller steer powered vessels in the future. A manufacturer such as Carolina Skiff and it's customers could benefit from some certification changes.
themclos	posted 12-11-2008 09:57 PM ET (US) Eric, That is a great setup on the Alert. As we have read from several people on this site, a 50HP or 60HP 4-stroke engine on a 17' hull makes for one very fuel efficient setup. Dan
themclos	posted 12-12-2008 11:13 AM ET (US) Erik, Sorry for the typo. The least I can do is spell your name correctly. Dan
lurkynot	posted 12-12-2008 11:22 AM ET (US) "Fordy for once, just shut up." I have seen this glen e user id on other sites and have observed the same tone or overtones. Just an observation.
Clark Roberts	posted 12-22-2008 09:27 AM ET (US) I have 3 13 Whalers with tiller steering set-up and the handling is superb. The ride is improved also due to the extreme aft helm location. I recently converted a 1996 Merc tiller 40hp Sea Pro to electric start and trim and tilt with all controls on tiller handle (except for key switch which I located on front of motor pan. I test ran it yesterday on one of my 13s and everything works very good but way, way too much power for the 13. Now I need a bare hull 17 which should be perfect (top speed should be around 30mph or a little more).
Clark Roberts	posted 12-22-2008 09:27 AM ET (US) I have 3 13 Whalers with tiller steering set-up and the handling is superb. The ride is improved also due to the extreme aft helm location. I recently converted a 1996 Merc tiller 40hp Sea Pro to electric start and trim and tilt with all controls on tiller handle (except for key switch which I located on front of motor pan. I test ran it yesterday on one of my 13s and everything works very good but way, way too much power for the 13. Now I need a bare hull 17 which should be perfect (top speed should be around 30mph or a little more).
glen e	posted 12-22-2008 10:15 AM ET (US) Lurky - Put a sock in it..I'm a big "troll" all right - do a search on Fourdy's posts if you want to see some crap..He's Jim's lapdog here. As far as mine are concerned, don't read 'em.
fourdfish	posted 12-22-2008 11:15 AM ET (US) lurky--- glen e has his own web site! He just comes here to cause problems! I never go over to his site, so what does that tell you! He is consistently bashing JimH and others here for no good reason. Have a Merry Christmas!
lurkynot	posted 12-23-2008 01:50 PM ET (US) I have seen this guy in action on other sites. So rude and to put up with that. Do not know about you guys but my momma always used to say run do not walk away from people like that so they get the social misfit hint if they have not already done so by now. Enough said. Point made, hopefully taken.
glen e	posted 12-23-2008 04:40 PM ET (US) show me another site where I'm crude and crass...I don't ever start it and I've got to be attacked before I issue any type of comeback. As for Fourdy - ask a few others here.He deserves it in spades.Find one of his comments calling me and others "gay".Unacceptable and I never jump his posts. please cite another site....frankly I think you're an alias....
fourdfish	posted 12-23-2008 04:46 PM ET (US) Actually, glen got in a fight with Wiley and got kicked off THT! No surprise there. He jumped one guy he didn't know here who just asked a legit question with all kinds of names! If the shoe fits wear it glen! Crass, rude and uneducated!!!!! BTW all you have to do is check his profile!
glen e	posted 12-23-2008 08:57 PM ET (US) A TOTAL LIE....GO ASK WYLIE THAT....don't fabricate stuff to make your point..I left for other reasons...when IB took over I came back...you truly are an idiot....
fourdfish	posted 12-23-2008 09:26 PM ET (US) The truth hurts!
lurkynot	posted 12-25-2008 10:55 AM ET (US) Not an alias, been an active posting member to this site for several years if not several a few at least. As to the citing the other sites I will grab a few of your quotes if need be. Not sure where that will end up. I do not want to get into a tussel with you since it was just an observation of mine about your responses to others on this site and one other site I frequent. If I had to put a finger on it it would be your tone, very cross, combative perhaps. Anyway it is Christmas Day - happy holidays to all of you.