posted 01-07-2009 02:12 AM ET (US)            

Down, Down, Down I go
Through the decks squarely below
Whence the bottom I arrive
Surprised to be yet alive
And better than most that I know

Having read Ritzy Rag; The ideas not half bad
A $5 fee
To be paid annually
Would cover the thoughts that he gave.

posted 01-07-2009 07:30 AM ET (US)            

Thank You Max for your inspirations.

posted 01-07-2009 10:41 AM ET (US)            

Personally, I think it would be a great idea and a great promotion for Whaler. I don't think we would get corporate buy-in.

I would love to have someone else do my restoration. If all goes well, I hope to be starting my 3rd in the coming months. I'm at the point that I just want to enjoy boating and not spend a year getting the boat where I want it.

I am sure JimH or others here have ongoing interactions with Chuck Bennett, who could certainly point us in the right direction with your idea.

posted 01-07-2009 12:06 PM ET (US)            

Honestly true and proper refits are clostly. I know of someone who spent upwards of $70,000+ to have a late 70's 21 Outrage properly restored. Sure that was at an outside shop however, with the labor rates I am sure Whaler pays it's work staff it may cost them even more.

Also, Whaler is a company that is looking to move forward and rarely looks in the rear view mirror to promote classic hulls from a generation of a different management. If the older hulls are so great why did whaler even change the designs and hulls? Also, if the old management really built a better product what does that say for the current state of things?

posted 01-07-2009 06:20 PM ET (US)            

It was done by Metan Marine in Massachusetts.
http://www.metanmarine.com/Restorations/65_Whaler_13/index.html

posted 01-07-2009 07:11 PM ET (US)            

Are those two the same hull? The one in Jeff's Photo has a classic steering wheel and a classic Mercury. The one in yours has a SS wheel and a new Mercury.

Rags -

I agree, that would truly be an inspiring promotion, and in good times (say, 2005) that would have been an excellent way to consider spending about $500K of additional marketing budget (75-100K on the restoration, 200K to move the boat around to various shows throughout the year, 30K on depreciation of the "replacement" boat given to the owner for his/her use during the season while the classic hull was on parade/tour, and the rest in associated marketing/PR agency costs including promotional materials, printing, time, out-of-pockets, per diems and other costs).

As Jeff said though, the name of the game is moving current product inventory - even in 2005. Nostalgia is good for some and is a really fluffy "nice to have" but in today's cutthroat marketing environment, it really is out of place.

Publicly traded companies are not rewarded by their masters (stockholders) for building traditions and legacies. They are rewarded for cashing in on legacies and traditions to move products and generate profits. In 1949, a closely-held company may have devoted significant funds to a long-term strategy, but very few companies today take a very long-term approach. The thinking is that if your short term plans are solid and result in growth, then the following years will build on that growth and you will continue to succeed (success defined here as ability to continue to generate a profit).

I was fortunate recently to work for a company with a 200 year history. While publicly traded overseas, the company still had a controlling chief officer whose name was the same as the man who founded the company more than 200 years ago. THAT company took a different and unique view toward long-term growth, planning and overall prosperity. Let me tell you, it was nice working for a company like that which also had more than a billion dollars of cash reserves (boy did the analysts hate that - "Too Much!" they said), was self-insured and self-insured all of the employees. Our health benefits were excellent and company funded 100% because of this. There was and is very little chance of this company to fail or be overtaken in a corporate merger. This company honored the past...but even so, they did not manufacture products that they were making 200 years ago.

The fact is that even with such a commitment to employees and honoring the history of the company - the vision of the leadership was focused on the future. The past served as a solid platform from which to operate in the present and plan for a successful future. That is what Boston Whaler should be trying to do. I believe that they are. In some ways, they are forced into the larger mold of their owners - they don't have complete freedom - but they are also protected by that ownership. Remember, there would not likely be a Boston Whaler company as we know them if it weren't for the fine folks in Lake Forest.

I am not a fan of some of the newer designs or the corporate mandate on accessories (such as motors), but am grateful that they allow the folks in Edgewater to carry the banner forward to continue the tradition and legend of an Unsinkable, yacht-quality skiff that has utility and long-life.

In a very long-winded response to your question - this kind of promotion would stir me, it would energize me, it would motivate me...but it wouldn't cause me to buy a new Whaler.

That's about all the market research that a marketing director needs to call off plans for this type of promotion.

As a PR guy myself though, I'd love to plan, coordinate and execute this campaign!

posted 01-07-2009 08:16 PM ET (US)            

That boat Metan did was not the OFFICIAL boat Whaler used at shows across the US nor do I believe the Factory paid for that particular restoration. It is my understanding that boat was done for a local North East dealer. Steve's boat and story I believe has been featured in one of Whaler's 50th anniversary promo videos as well as there display.

Ritz,
A warm feel good story on history of the past hulls was what the 50th was to be about.

While I am a classic Whaler lover at heart, being in marketing and marketing strategy field I know and have seen time and time again, with all kinds of brands (mostly vehicles), evidence that clearly shows classic owners / lovers do not directly help sell new products. Infact they can disrupt the brands objectives by undermining current products. Of course heritage is a great brand story however, classic owners are classic owners. All prospective buyers really need to know that are in the purchase funnel is, "There is a long history of great products and models through the years. In fact many of those are still in use today and have a strong group following." That says long term quality, longevity of use, and strong brand loyalty. With Whaler however there is a bit of a sticking point. People who have been into boating for a long time may just know that the Whaler of yesterday is not the same as Today. From corporation to the product. This is both good and bad for all kinds of reasons. Those who loved what they were will not migrate to new products. This is mainly because they are already sold on the quality, purcahse price vs. offering, and other aspects of what they already own. If they did not like it, they would not own it. Even if there were brand new classics for sale it would have a very niche market and many if not most classic owners would not be buying in that niche price range. Finally, people buying classics adds NOTHING to the bottom line of the company today. Why would a company want to go out of their way to support people who are unwilling to help them endorse new products? Come on, classic owners BASH Whaler and their current offerings all the time here. That is not helpful for the cause. If you brought a classic owner to a boat show to talk about their boat, they are going to be selling someone somemthing that can not be bought new. Also, I can not see a Die Hard classic owner sitting on a new product and saying "Well as great as mine is, this is really what you should buy! Oh never mind the cost either."

To stay in business Whaler needs to push it's current and the future line up. Whaler's future is clearly larger and larger boats as it is clear profit margins are becoming nonexistent on small boats. I am sure you will see less and less new ones being launched through out the industry. If Whaler then is looking to people who can afford new larger fishing boats I would bet while, that buyer knows Whaler stands for quality, the company's heritage and past models is not a major factor in a purchase decision. As stated before....All they need to know is there are a lot of those old hulls still out there so they must be quality. Today's target buyer may have memories of being on a whaler as a kid or around them but that is not a major nor the only driving force to by a new model. Quality, price, power, and options / amenities are what buyers are looking for. If the models of yesterday where available today they would not even be able to compete in the market on the Price vs. Reward offering. Someone who is willing and who can afford to buy a new hull does not want to hassle with teak, they are looking for large high horse power twin and triple engine rigging, they want large consoles with built in heads, lots of tackle storage, huge expanses of space to flush mount electronics, large leaning posts with storage, fully enclosed transoms, live wells, fully integrated engine brackets, and lots of seating.

In the end this is why any corporate budgets get directed to move current and up coming products. You want to sell new Whalers model offerings against other makes like Edgewater, Grady White, Everglades, Contender, and Regulator and not against your own Classic Hulls. If you do that you are missing your market. Any way trust me no one in the marine industry today has any money for feel good marketing period. But, to put an idea forth that may bring something together on your idea....What boat if you currently have a classic and plan to keep it but, you buy a brand new Whaler then, you may have the change to win a complete restoration of that Classic. Then both parties get something and you could tell a really neat story on Heritage.

To who ever,
I hear People here all the time stay "No way I would buy a new Whaler it's is just not a classic.", "I am not going to FORCED into buying something with a motor I do not want.", "I would buy a new Whaler today IF they offered a Classic hull with teak accents etc." Heck I even said that at once. The fact is though, knock them all you want but, until you speak with your pocket book and it DIRECTLY effects their bottom line, why listen?

If you really wanted a Whaler but you did not buy it because of the Merc power then do something about it. Show up to a real Whaler Dealer or set up a meeting with Whaler Directly, have your financials in order and ready to disclose your DIRECT intent to buy and I bet they listen. I have spoken with a guy from the other site who claims to have gotten a 190 Guardian without power from the factory by doing this. It was a 1 1/2 fight but he got it and just rigged an E Tec on it. If that is not for you, go out and put your money where your mouth is an buy something else but take the time to write Whaler on why they lost you as a customer. That will get people listening. Or, if you just wanted something else because you think the new Hulls are not classics...repeat above mentioned tactic. Send along your invoice in both instances to put credibility to your claims.

If you really want a "NEW" classic...find a used one of the model what you want. Open your check book and have it rebuilt and resurveyed as a new vessel. This has been done. In that case you be able to customize what you want, how you want it, and with what ever motor you want. So, you do not have a factory warranty but, I would think the shop would warranty their work and a new motor would come with it's own warranty. In the end I bet it will cost the same or less than if Whaler was selling that boat new today. Besure and document your process, do some hard market research and build strong business case to Whaler on why they should build boats like yours. At that rate, just start your own company like many of these resto car manufactures and have Whaler endorse you if you think it would be so profitable.

I just do not understand the mentality of kicking the manufacture for trying to met mass market needs of today. The same people who knock them and do nothing to change things nor buy nothing in the market to show your a viable customer then say, "Support us because we love who you WERE." It is like a bad marriage only with a boat you are still able to live in the past with an old hull. All while not making an effort to change things. It is a tough one I know. Trust me, I have been fortunate enough to have these discussions with those that matter. It was a real eye opener to here the other side. It really made me stop and think about whether I am a Whaler Lover or a Lover of who Whaler was.

posted 01-08-2009 07:29 AM ET (US)            

Five hundred grants spent would be too much in this publicity "extravaganza"?
I have known of millions per minutes spend on products on the telecast of the Superbowl game alone,
And not to doubt anyone's numbers here,70 Ks on a refit seems like a lot to me,
But then again what do I know?
My one important valid point will be PUBLICITY for the brand name and not necessarily old versus new hull design directions.
I've got this little "Pet" red diesel Mercedes Benz 190 D car that my wife absolutely detest.
To my great surprise,She has gone as far as to call it the MR Magoo put put car;
Well, this model has hardly changed in more than a decade and has still been a great International success in number of sales including Africa..
My traditional Trade involved me for more than a quarter century in the Pulp and Paper industry and has see this field been Nationally depleted Plant wise due to a strategy aimed at impressing the stock holders.
The powers that be having lost production contracts due to competitive prices did cut so many jobs..
And "streamlined" the operations costs to adapt and still impress the stockholders numbers.
Next came plant closures but efficiently moving contracts to "other" facilities.Sounds familiar?
Point being that now a lot of pulp/paper is now being made and imported from foreign lands..Under the same stock name..

If a Boat company after having being amalgamated to other boat manufacturing strategies still price their units so that Joe public has to chose between wheels or his favorite boat ride..
Chance are the boating industry will be laying off more workers to make their numbers work..
The solution to many will rely on PRICE ROLLBACKS.
Better to attract flies with honey then with high and unjustifiable prices.
The refit Idea is to be used strictly as an attention getter and promotional tool here.
And yes,why not only the ones buying a newer unit may be entitled.
And this if you only want to reach a percentage of the Whaler mania out there that is..
People need to be excited about something these days.
It is a transitional and difficult time for many.
So to adapt and again make a good profit margin will take some style and finesse in PR.
I know that I had to roll back my prices and the public is slowly but surely coming back for purchases.
It would be nice to see all of us with the budget to trade in our favorite crafts for a new one each year.
The realities of life has dictated us otherwise.
I will remain upbeat about my next and more recent Whaler hull.
May it be a brand new one..

Serge.

posted 01-11-2009 09:42 AM ET (US)            

I don't know if $5,000 would cover the cost of a refit for some of the more "stubborn" boats we've seen pictures of (pictures from the Whaler yard thread) but it would certainly defray it quite a bit.

Realizing that your $100 notion is just something you're throwing out there - My question is, what about those of us with newer boats (that are therefore structurally clean and sound)? Certainly $100 is not much to have it decked out even more than what we have (i.e. electronics, custom logos and lettering or whatever, maybe if I can't have the aft bench seat because of wood placement, maybe they can figure out a way to do that or add live well and some down riggers or some such). But also, $100 is a bit much for an individual like me to take a chance on something like that - or if your boat is in great shape - heck it was only $10 a ticket at the fair and they were raffling off [separately] a new decked-out Harley and a new John Deere w/front end loader or brush hog (choice).

Overall - the raffle to get your boat spruced up sounds great, but would it be cost feasible for the company or average participant? Maybe if the company did it in conjunction with a local VFD or some other charitible organization (Wounded Warrior or Make-a-Wish for example) whereas the money went to the volunteers/organization and the company could write off the refit as charity? Win-win-win for the company (PR), volunteer org (money) and winner (refit).

posted 01-13-2009 03:32 PM ET (US)            

If you really want to do an official legal raffle there are many outside expenses you need to taking consideration. You will need to set up and get your organization fully licensed, bonded, and insured in all of the countries and states you are holding the raffle in. Even Whaler has to do this for EVERY raffle they do. These fees are not cheap in any way and every state and country has different laws. So in the end you may need to sell 1000+ tickets at $100 to cover all of your expenses.

Also, if you really want Whaler to support this venture you need to talk to the right people. Chuck Bennett has nothing directly to do with Whaler's marketing. You need to speak to Kim Hegel or Traci Davis.

Any way selling 500 $100 tickets my be a tough sell. For example my calendar has undersold all of my expectations and I am glad I did it through cafepress where they printed and shipped the calendars on an as needed basis. Going into the project I would have assumed to sell at least 250 of them and almost just had that estimate printed to save money. I have sold 88 calendars and with January quickly fading into the past I do not forsee many more orders. So a word of caution....$100 in today's economy for a raffle may be a hard sell to most. For me, spending $100 of fun money is only going to be invested into something I know I will get a full return on that investment. Something like $100 of fuel for my boat. I know I will be paid back in full with that investment.