posted 01-14-2009 01:41 PM ET (US)            

When I got out of college, I worked for an auto dealership owned by a friend. It was a nice dealershiop with a good reputation. Anyway, the cardinal sin was to give numbers out over the phone, period, end of story.

The owner advised me that basically, the caller will use those figures as a hunting license. He go to another dealer closer to his home, and say: "Dealer "A" can sell it for this, can you beat it?" So if the second dealer beats the deal by anything (even $50.00), the customer buys at the second dealer. There is -0- loyalty or sense obligation from the customer to the first dealer that gave him a quote. That's just the way it is. The salesman that gave them numbers over the phone sells nothing.

I know it's a hassle, but I would wager that if you went to the dealer in person, they would work with you. Sales are way down. If you wanted to purchase a boat that they had in stock, they would not let you leave without giving you a bottom line price. Over the phone, it's a different story.

posted 01-14-2009 01:53 PM ET (US)         

At one time I had an excellent relationship with a salesman (and also with the owner) at a car dealership. For years I would decide what I wanted, call the dealership, get a price (and I never haggled, I just said, "John, give me your best price on a whatever sedan with xxxx options, and trusted that was exactly what he would do).

Did I always pay bottom line, probably not. Did I get good service, loaners when I needed on, etc.. you bet...

Spend your time and energy building relationships, not hunting for the last penny... in the long run, it will pay.

posted 01-14-2009 02:53 PM ET (US)            

That's nice sentiment, and maybe, once a long time ago, it might have been true; I don't know.

posted 01-14-2009 03:19 PM ET (US)            

On boats, you dont have any such guides. The invoices are closely protected by the dealers and manufacturers. That makes it tough. In the past, I've heard that a general rule of thumb was ballpark 20% from invoice to sticker. However, in today's market, all bets are off.

What model boat are you looking for? Have you considered used? There are great deals to be had on used boats that are still under factory warranty.

posted 01-14-2009 04:04 PM ET (US)            

For example; I purchased a 2004 Infinity QX56 brand new. It was the first production year and mine was number 80 off the assembly line.

I always paid the dealer to service the vehicle (something that I was not used to) and had it in the shop within a few miles of the scheduled service.

Needless to say the truck was plagued with little problems which were always handled by the dealer when it went in for service. When the list hit 32 reported and corrected repairs, my wife fire off a pleasant but concerned letter to Infinity.

Infinity contacted the dealer and decided to swap out my 2004 with a new 2007 with the exact same options and colors. I paid for title, plates and dealer prep., about $800. Their comment to us was they are better then that.

posted 01-14-2009 04:22 PM ET (US)            

BW dealers I have spoken to are NOT in that same league. Not even close.

I'm not sure aside from a higher price, that BW is (at least any more..if they ever were). I have a vibration issue with my Montauk 170 that BW has basically told me to "live with". They said the best way to not have the problem is to not ride in that speed that causes the vibration.

posted 01-14-2009 04:46 PM ET (US)            

A number of boat dealers close their doors for 2 to 3 weeks after Christmas, or operate with a skeleton crew. You may be running into that situation when calling around.

It's no excuse if they can't post this information or leave it on their answering machine.

That said, a hungry salesman should always be checking email and voicemail.

posted 01-14-2009 06:12 PM ET (US)            

If you think that dealers don't talk you are sadly mistaken. They talk! Dealers have assigned territories for marketing reasons. Maybe the dealer that you emailed sent that referral back to your local dealer. Maybe your local dealer is laughing at you and you don't even know it.

You are a bottom line type of person. The local dealer could give you his best price and you would go out and manipulate it yourself. That in my mind is a "CHEAT". I hate giving folks like you good service. It is never enough... you always want more that what you pay for. Unfortunatly I take care of customers like yourself that see no value in GREAT service. In your mind you will always feel like you did not get enough.

Changing a quote...man you are a piece of work. Hope you feel
good about yourself. Your name has probably been thrown around a few times and not even worth calling back. Dealers need to be proactive...but they don't have time to waste either.

Good luck in your quest.

witsendfl

posted 01-14-2009 07:09 PM ET (US)         

Here's a prime example. I received a price from a dealer last Friday. The price was a little more than what I wanted to pay. The dealer said fine, their is NO WAY I can drop the price anymore. Fine end of story. No less than 30 minutes ago I received a call from that same dealer saying he can lower the price another 2K. This after swearing he could not go any lower a week ago. I asked him what changed? He said not to worry about.

Now thats what I call a dealer F****** around with a customer. Its OK for the dealer to be shifty but it not OK for the guy buying the boat to shop for the best price?

Dealers have assigned territories for marketing reasons???
That's a bunch of crap

Your right, I'm a bottom line kind of guy. I drove to Sanford, NC to by my 2004 Sea Hunt and saved $5800.00. over the 2 dealers in PA.

posted 01-14-2009 07:17 PM ET (US)         

Now you know why BW would never permit an individual with that kind of myopic view of customer relations into their circle of dealerships.

posted 01-14-2009 07:41 PM ET (US)            

But the real question that poses itself is this. Why was there a $5800 difference in out-the-door price? Overhead? Greed? Who gives a rat's ass, I don't need to sell this boat?

Hypothetical. I'm a dealer. I lower my profit margin, hence I lower my product prices. I sell more product because of my lower prices. I make the same money and I have satisfied customers who will tell their boat buying friends about my dealership.

posted 01-14-2009 07:43 PM ET (US)         

The non-communication issue is a very telling thing is it not.

At the dealerships, its January, cold as all hell, the boats all snuggled in their shrink wraps waiting, like all of us, for the spring thaw to arrive.

The economy, like the outgoing administration, is in the outhouse with no TP.

Several dealers have whined to me, there's plenty of credit around to buy a BW boat, I said to them, the magic bullet is not available credit but getting the consumer into the showroom to use it !

Credit + plenty of boats + high prices - motivation = no sales.

.....and yet these BW dealers are still in denial regarding their prices and communication.

posted 01-14-2009 08:07 PM ET (US)         

Usually they are huddled in some corner letting prospects look at the fiberglass goodies fearful of being asked any question about the product since they usually have no answers or they are recent hirelings from the FF industry.

posted 01-14-2009 09:53 PM ET (US)            

There is a Sea Hunt dealer no more than 1/4 mile from my house of the same family of dealers that I had purchased a Grady White from a few years prior. Having previously purchased (and had service done there), I went there first when I wanted to by another boat. But after shoppng around some--I foun they were high--almost $5K high--for what I wanted.

So after looking around some more, I did the easiest thing in the world for a salesman: I took him a quote that Chatlee provided me and told them to match it. Not beat it..just match it, as I would be saving the money in gas in driving 5 hours to get it. My local dealer's response was, and I quote: "Well he can sell his junk for that much if he wants, but I won't".

posted 01-15-2009 12:30 AM ET (US)            

As far as phone and email quotes - I think the name of the game for dealerships is "get them in the show room and you have a better chance of making the sale" (and don't anyone let them go until you make a sale - tag team their butt if you have to); not give them your best-price quote over the phone or in an email and let them shop that around for a better price somewhere else at their leisure from the comfort of their home. Much better chance to wear the customer's defenses down, keep them a little off balance and keep them away from the competition (!!!) if you get them in your store and keep them talking as long as it takes to seal the deal (and size up a customer for what they can and/or are willing to pay and leave happy while still keeping/making as much profit as possible on each individual sale) - I'm sure the sales manager knows his very bottom line and knows about where he can draw a "bottom line" for each customer. Even to cut the sale price of the item and make it up in Service agreements or loan terms after feeling out the customer for wants/needs and fiancial situation ("Okay, cut that guy another couple hundred and make the deal, we can hold the line and make it up from this other guy").

Also - I'm sure most any individual would be very willing to drive 200 miles round trip to pick up an item at a big enough savings over their local dealer (who is, say, 15 miles away) - but not willing to do so simply to get a quote to compare against their local dealership. So, ifa person drives the 100 miles to the other dealer chances are, 1) They are serious about making a purchase and not just an inquiry (good for the sales rep / dealer to know) and 2) Will at least spend some time talking/trying to make a deal since they drove all that way (again good for the sales rep / dealer) and 3) might even be enticed/persuaded to buy something other if they can't come to terms on the intended item, ("can I interest you in this that I have here then, if we can't agree on the price of that"). But, if a dealership simply gives a price to their liking over the phone or in writing - they can go 15 miles from the house to the local dealer and say "meet or beat this or I go buy it there" and have a fairly good chance of it happening - and then the first dealer only hears from the customer that they bought it elsewhere at the offered price when they make a follow up phone call ("So, what do you think about the offer? Oh, you did? Well, Hey that's great, Thanks, let me know if I can try and get you the best deal possible somewhere else the next time you want to buy something too. Call anytime; I'll just be here as your last-ditch, best-price safety net if no one else wants to make as good a deal as mine for you").

(yeah, I know, Feej can't even get them to make an initial return call but this is my rambling anlaogy here. Ha).

And, with all that said, I'm sure the first quote you get over the phone or email is just to get you in the show room anyway - if you are willing to take that deal, Great, if not, come in - let's talk.

posted 01-15-2009 09:14 AM ET (US)            

The salesman at that show was an absolute moron. I was a dead buyer. He ignored me and treated me like I was a homeless guy wanting to climb on the boat to check it out. I asked him a few questions about the boat and it was like pulling teeth to get a reply out of him. I was totally tuned off.

posted 01-15-2009 09:55 AM ET (US)            

No I didnt. Not my problem. The horse was already out of the barn. I bought a different boat, so I could care less about their staffing issues. Had I still been in the market and set on that model, I may have done what you suggested.

Also, for the record, I'm not bashing that brand, just that one particular salesman. I am not kidding when I said that I was a dead buyer. All that guy had to do was act interested, be polite and professional. That guy had no clue. He didnt write my name down or act interested in me whatsoever.

In contrast (at the same boat show) the B.W. salesmen and manager were all over me. Polite, professional and eager to earn my business. They set up a test drive, etc.

Having been in sales in the past, these guys have to realize that you have to treat every prospect as a buyer.
Do you get a lot of "tire kickers' that just want to look? You certainly do. But unless you have a crystal ball, there's no way to tell the difference between the time wasters and the buyers. You have to treat them all as buyers.

posted 01-15-2009 10:45 AM ET (US)            

In fact I am doing that with a car dealership as we speak, writing a letter letting them and corporate know why the dealership not only lost a sale they had in hand to a rival dealership, but that they have lost a repeat customer (with a strong and provable track record for loyalty) due to the arrogance and attitude displayed by their new sales manager. I am citing specifics (statements, dates, circumstances) and will let them know that when we purchase again, the new dealership will get first crack at the sale and they won't even be in the running which "saddens" me because I used to like doing business with them - Just so they know. He'll get a cc of the letter from me as well - I don't hide behind anonymity. Whether or not they'll address the guy's attitude and mannerism is up to them. I just want to go "on the record" and let them know that they had a sale in hand and he not only lost the sale, but the customer (and thus a chance at future sales). Who knows, maybe they'll even make an overture to win my business back, in which case I'd be willing to let them try. I would like an apology or acknowledgment from them - but it is not wholly necessary - it will suffice to know that they know, and that they know I am perfectly happy elsewhere. I would do this anyway, but I think in today's market, it may have even more impact - I am sure there are plenty of out-of-work sales reps that would love the chance to act amicably toward customers and make a sale for them.

posted 01-15-2009 02:05 PM ET (US)            

Our office has been closed for the holidays the past three weeks so I don't know if you tried to contact us. We are getting a fair amount of activity but we definitely are not swamped. As a Whaler dealer we are encouraged to sell boats within our territory in order to provide service after the sale. It is policy for all Whaler dealers not to quote prices by e-mail without talking to the customer first and finding out where they intend to use the boat. Most of the Whaler dealers I speak with will not dump a boat into another dealers territory without checking in with the local dealer first. This is not to say we won't sell you the boat, but out of courtesy to the other dealer it is the proper way to do things.

Please give me a call and if I don't have what your looking for I will point you in the right direction with some honest answers. I will be in the office today until 4:30 and then back in tomorrow at 8.

Regards,

posted 01-15-2009 03:28 PM ET (US)            

We who build the boats, or engineer them, or whatever, take a huge amount of pride in our product. The boats, afterall, are what customers think of us as people, although they have never met us. But on the dealer side of things, that "pride" is not the same, and can be very detrimental towards the potential customers view, or opinion, of the manufacturer. We have been working very hard (unlike congress saying they are "working very hard") with our dealers to improve their sales practices and their sales staff, to try and instill the same pide that we feel. We have 6 internal sales reps that have been traveling everywhere to work with the dealers in all facets of selling our product. From construction technique education to sales techniques to proper treatment of a potential customer, whatever. We also have "Pro-Line University", where new and established dealers, sales managers, service techs, even service personnel are brought to the plant for several days at our expense to walk them through the whole process of building a boat, from lamination all the way through to final inspection. They are allowed, and encouraged, to talk to whomever, whether it be an engineer, an engine rigger, a carpenter, a finisher, whomever. The goal of this program is to hopefully have those dealer personnel return to their dealerships with a different attitude as to the knowledge of our product, the way they represent our product, and to realize that, especially in this day and age, the customer is the most important aspect of any boat sale, regardless of the make of the boat.

I have been "temporarily" laid-off right now for the last 5 weeks. I'll be returning the 26th of Jan. However, I have been assisting a couple in Boca Raton with their 29 Express and a water intrusion issue, i.e. finding out where the water is coming from. I'm doing this from home, our Company President is well aware of it as he asked me to keep him apprised of the progress of the situation. Now, I'm not getting paid, and we do have customer service currently working, but I am the engineer in charge of this model, and there is no one who knows it better than I. I feel it is my duty, regardless of my employment status, to assist this customer. Some might call me stupid. Whatever. But if we can instill the same type of attitude in our dealers, we will be far more successful than those companies who don't have as good a relationship with their dealers.

posted 01-15-2009 04:02 PM ET (US)            

First of all, I am very sorry to hear about your current situation. I sincerely hope that things turn around soon. I respect you and your company. Note that in my previous post, I stated:"Also, for the record, I'm not bashing that brand, just that one particular salesman." I had you in mind when I wrote that. I knew that you worked at the factory and I respect that.

I loved my ProLine 220 Sport. I had it 7 years and was going to upgrade to their big rig. I didnt have to be sold on the brand name. I just needed someone to go over the bigger boat with me, treat me with respect and work a deal. One fool (that salesman) changed my mind because he basically brushed me off. I dont feel any malice towards ProLine or you because of that. I still think that they are good boats.

Best wishes,

Brian

posted 01-15-2009 04:49 PM ET (US)            

I received a call, the next day, as I'm in the market for an etech--60.

I told him about the challenges with my "custom" 15' Sport. They said: "no problem". "we'll work with you and your boat."

I gave them all the pertinent info. and I expect to hear from them soon. They were excited that I actually called back.

We'll see.

posted 01-15-2009 06:36 PM ET (US)            

This morning I emailed Ed's Marine for a price on a new e-tec delivered to my city. I was suprised to get a response within 10 minutes

Be aware that Evinrude says that Ed's Marine Superstore is not an authorized dealer anymore and that may affect warranty coverage.

posted 01-15-2009 06:48 PM ET (US)            

The main purpose of my post was to let you all know that there is the manufacturer who has to deal with the dealers, as well as the consumer. Believe it or not, the manufacturer and the consumer are basically in the same position. Now, a manufacturer can choose to forgo the dealer network and market directly, just as Intrepid has done for years (worked for that outfit for awhile, bunch of...well, you know whats). But that is much easier said than done.

So, basically, what I am saying is that we both our, more or less, at the mercy of the dealers. If I, as a builder, choose to drop that dealer, then I don't have representation of my line in that area. If you, as the consumer, don't have representation, you may not consider that line or it will cost you more time and money in order to search out and examine the model you want to buy.

posted 01-16-2009 09:54 PM ET (US)            

They are not playing with a full deck of cards...

There ETEC for 9800. will not be honored by Evinrude for warr. purposes per Evinrude, they lost their dealership on ETECs, and thats because of the pricing and other stuff they do...no I command gauges(they say they dont work) yeah right! 650.00 just to plac e a motor on ahull...okay..Im done....when they get done quoting, its more than anywhere else....and twice the hassel...heck of a way to runa business...I called them and emailed them, they returned my call but kept the conversation short and to THEIR point. I calle Evinrude to confirm warr. and they said they are not accepting anything from them, they only have a few products left from old inventory. There pricing is what got them removed from ETEC dealership...

Talk about a wacky place...you have to leave your boat for 6-8 weeks for them to do an install??????!!!when donkeys fly!!!!